Let’s think outside the box

[boo2202]

Last year should show us that Ballard’s board is different from a lot of other teams and draft gurus. I keep seeing various names linked to us that would be no surprise but there will be a surprise player picked by the colts with one of the top three picks this year. Names such as Wilkins, Burns, Baker, etc are flying around but in all honest I highly doubt we end up with some of these names. Some due to Ballard’s board and secondly many of these names will be gone. Not many had us taking Leonard, Smith, Lewis, or Turay last year. Some of them we’re even projected third rounders. So what are some dark horse players for our first and second round picks, because I’m sure there will be some surprises

[#12.]

Free agents and the draft.  Yes, I'm sure we'll see some players few people are talking about.  

 

Rapp is the one player many are talking about who does for whatever reason strike me as a Ballard player.  Who knows.

[boo2202]

Keep a eye on Dalton Risner T Kansas State. Could see him with pick 34. Would add oline depth as he can play tackle or kick inside to guard.

[Boiler_Colt]

Guys that I think Ballard might like in the 2nd round range; Darnell Savage, Justin Layne, Lonnie Johnson.

[MPStack]

The 1 year deal for Geathers, is kind of telling IMO that safety is a high priority in the draft, and loaded at safety.

 

TE is interesting and agree with some posters comments in regards to the possibly of TE in RD #1 for the Colts. Ebron and Doyle on both on the last year of their deals, so I wouldn't be anymore shocked than when Dallas Clark was drafted.

 

RB in the 2nd Rd. The Colts have been sniffing around, so Ballard is somewhat interested in adding another back. Jacobs in the 2nd Rd?? Maybe a possibility.

 

Just my two cents. Excellent thread by the way.

[chad72]

TE, OT, RB and CB are definitely dark horse picks for Day 1 and Day 2.

 

Most expected ones seem to be DT, DE, S and WR. 

[Pat Beach 81]

If one of the top CB, TE, or S is there I think you have take them.  I think you have to see what you have in Smith and Turay. Houston was signed as a stop gap. Interior DL is a need but I see more need in the secondary.  Getting One of the Iowa TE is a game changer. 

[Buck Showalter]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

TE, OT, RB and CB are definitely dark horse picks for Day 1 and Day 2.

 

Most expected ones seem to be DT, DE, S and WR. 

So it'll probably be a linebacker...

[FalseStart]

Rapp S, Little OT, Bradberry G/C, Dillard OT, Hockenson TE,  Gardner-Johnson S, Joe Jackson EDGE,  Kaleb McGary OT, David Edwards OT, David Montgomery RB, Justin Layne CB, Terry McLaurin WR, Gary Johnson OLB etc...

 

Would be interesting if teammates were selected...

 

Murphy, Rapp, McGary WASH

Hockenson, Hooker, Nelson IOWA

Watkins, Lawrence, Mullen CLEM

[boo2202]

2 hours ago, FalseStart said:

Rapp S, Little OT, Bradberry G/C, Dillard OT, Hockenson TE,  Gardner-Johnson S, Joe Jackson EDGE,  Kaleb McGary OT, David Edwards OT, David Montgomery RB, Justin Layne CB, Terry McLaurin WR, Gary Johnson OLB etc...

 

Would be interesting if teammates were selected...

 

Murphy, Rapp, McGary WASH

Hockenson, Hooker, Nelson IOWA

Watkins, Lawrence, Mullen CLEM

Mclaurin would for sure be a surprise, exspecially with some of the other top wrs left on the board. Crazy thing is I seen a report earlier with some team supposedly telling him to stay by his phone day 1 and he’s an Indiana kid. Interesting. 

[DougDew]

14 hours ago, MPStack said:

The 1 year deal for Geathers, is kind of telling IMO that safety is a high priority in the draft, and loaded at safety.

 

TE is interesting and agree with some posters comments in regards to the possibly of TE in RD #1 for the Colts. Ebron and Doyle on both on the last year of their deals, so I wouldn't be anymore shocked than when Dallas Clark was drafted.

 

RB in the 2nd Rd. The Colts have been sniffing around, so Ballard is somewhat interested in adding another back. Jacobs in the 2nd Rd?? Maybe a possibility.

 

Just my two cents. Excellent thread by the way.

Agreed.  But with the rumors of wanting to extend AC, and CB signing Glow to starters money, I think he'll roll with the starting OL for a while.  Pick 34 is where you want the player to start during the season (like Smith at 37), so I don't think this is the year we pick a quality Olineman like Risner that high.

 

NVM:  I just realized you weren't the one talking about OT.  LOL.

[MikeCurtis]

14 hours ago, MPStack said:

The 1 year deal for Geathers, is kind of telling IMO that safety is a high priority in the draft, and loaded at safety.

 

Yep......

 

 

[MPStack]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 

NVM:  I just realized you weren't the one talking about OT.  LOL.

 

Still gave you a like. Lol

[MikeCurtis]

14 hours ago, chad72 said:

TE, OT, RB and CB are definitely dark horse picks for Day 1 and Day 2.

 

Most expected ones seem to be DT, DE, S and WR. 

I know that its NOT what you are advocating but RB, is a VERY dark horse

 

It might not even be a horse..... (Unicorn?)  

 

To me, if you include Day 2, OT and TE arent really a dark horse.

 

Ballard LOVES TE......

 

I do EXPECT DL, S, WR in rounds 1 and 2.... in some order, but COULD see OL or TE with the 2nd, 2nd pick

 

 

 

 

[wig]

15 hours ago, MPStack said:

The 1 year deal for Geathers, is kind of telling IMO that safety is a high priority in the draft, and loaded at safety.

 

 

 

What we don't know is what the Colts offered in regards to multiple years (if anything). Could be that they offered a few years at a discounted amount because of historical injuries and Geathers would rather bet on himself with a one year prove it deal that could pay off next year with the Colts or in FA. 

[stitches]

I think if some of the left tackles in the draft fall to us, there is real possibility we draft them(Dillard, Little, Jonah Williams?). I also am on the record that I wouldn't be surprised if we drafted a CB on day 1 or day 2. Ballard in general is a fan of the HWS players... so look for one of those to be a surprise pick... if not in the 1st round, then in the second. 

 

I made a thread about Anthony Nelson here because he fits almost to a T Ballard's mold of Left End - he's got elite measurables and elite athleticism. It doesn't always show on the field but I can see us taking a shot at him on day 2 and trying to develop his outside moves that are currently almost non-existent. 

 

Another one - Ben Banogu - another elite athlete more in the right defensive end mold... more like Kemoko Turay, but he too has elite athletic testing, quickness and explosiveness and good length.  

 

Who else? I honestly have no idea what Ballard loves in his receivers. All the ones he's signed and drafted are such a mixed bag. I guess... he likes height/size and length? Funchess, Inman, Cain, Fountain... Those are all over 6'2" ... but then again... it might simply be him trying to find a specific type to be our long-term big bodied receiver and just taking bites at the apple until he finds one he likes. There are a ton of big bodied receivers in this draft, but I'm not sure he will continue taking more of those.

 

Another thing to keep a track of... BOTH Doyle's and Ebron's contracts expire next summer. I doubt we will be able to resign both of them. Is it possible we draft their replacement in this draft? Hockenson if he drops to 26? Fant? Or another one in the 3d-4th range? My favorite has been Foster Moreau from LSU. He's known as a blocking TE and that's where he excels, but he tested elite athletically at the combine. He gives me shades of George Kittle in his pre-draft profile - great blocker in college, massively underutilized in the passing game thanks to questionable QB/playcalling talent... goes to the combine and blows it out of the water. Does he have something more in him than his production indicates? And thanks to his lack of production you won't have to take him high... he will probably be available late in the in the 4th? 

[FalseStart]

8 hours ago, boo2202 said:

Mclaurin would for sure be a surprise, exspecially with some of the other top wrs left on the board. Crazy thing is I seen a report earlier with some team supposedly telling him to stay by his phone day 1 and he’s an Indiana kid. Interesting. 

McLaurin is a Former Indiana Mr. Football I believe... Been working with Marvin Harrison... 

[BluHorzhu]

Don't be surprised to see an offensive tackle or center come off the board in the first 3 picks, trade-down picks notwithstanding.  With teams addressing so many other positions it may prove easy to cherry-pick a starting-caliber T or C.  If the value is there, we could let him develop around great players and either replace them (Ryan Kelly, et al) when they hit FA or trade them to a needy team.  Meanwhile you've got years of depth protecting our franchise's greatest asset.

 

Imagine what the Saints might have given after Max Unger retired.  They were willing to pay $6 million a year for Nick Easton

 

[Coffeedrinker]

Personally, I don't think a lot of "out of the box" thinking is needed.  Last year we as fans knew we needed oline help, we knew we needed a WILL for the new 4-3 defense and we knew we needed rushers from the DE spot.  And Ballard pretty much said the same thing.  And the 5 picks in the first two rounds were spent on oline, WILL LB and rushers from the DE spot.

 

Now this year he is saying we need to build up the Dline (as far as WR, the only thing I have heard him say, is that the fans think WR is a need, I have not heard him say that HE think WR is a need)  So I think the first 3 picks are going to be focused on the dline and possible the oline if the right person is available.  

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Personally, I don't think a lot of "out of the box" thinking is needed.  Last year we as fans knew we needed oline help, we knew we needed a WILL for the new 4-3 defense and we knew we needed rushers from the DE spot.  And Ballard pretty much said the same thing.  And the 5 picks in the first two rounds were spent on oline, WILL LB and rushers from the DE spot.

 

Now this year he is saying we need to build up the Dline (as far as WR, the only thing I have heard him say, is that the fans think WR is a need, I have not heard him say that HE think WR is a need)  So I think the first 3 picks are going to be focused on the dline and possible the oline if the right person is available.  

I've learned to try and listen to what Ballard is saying. A lot of the time he leaves very obvious breadcrumbs and he practically never lies. For example, last year he distinctly said that he thinks LB and OL were some of the deepest/best positions in the draft. And what did he do in the draft? Pick 1 OG, pick 2 LB, pick 3 OG/OT... add 2 more LBs at the end of the draft... 

 

Now he's saying that he likes the secondary(safety and CB) groups and especially the depth in round 2-3 and OLine!!!! I think it's almost guaranteed that he will try to draft a safety in that range. He also said that he likes the draft on all 3 levels of the defense... so... I wouldn't be shocked if this draft heavily favors defensive players. 

 

ALso, when asked where he wants to add depth... the first two positions he said were the secondary and the OLine... so... the OLine and the safety/CB thing continues to get reinforced as a main area for expected picks IMO. And I wouldn't be shocked if we get multiple of them. I wouldn't be shocked if we went something like... safety&corner in round 2. 

 

I think the out of the box thing comes in when you try to guess who he would value more than the rest of the league, because he certainly seems to value certain athletic traits in players higher and that bumps them up in his draft evaluation(Leonard, Braden Smith, Lewis were all athletic freaks for their positions, but were thought to be reaches at their respective slots). So yeah... I would look for players with high end traits and bump them a round earlier as a pick for the Colts IF I wanted to be searching for 'out of the box' drafting. 

 

Examples: 

 

pick 34 - Juan Thornhill, S, Virginia

pick 59 - Sean Bunting, CB, Central Michigan

pick 90 - Ben Banogu, DE, TCU

etc.

[Coffeedrinker]

46 minutes ago, stitches said:

I've learned to try and listen to what Ballard is saying. A lot of the time he leaves very obvious breadcrumbs and he practically never lies. For example, last year he distinctly said that he thinks LB and OL were some of the deepest/best positions in the draft. And what did he do in the draft? Pick 1 OG, pick 2 LB, pick 3 OG/OT... add 2 more LBs at the end of the draft... 

 

Now he's saying that he likes the secondary(safety and CB) groups and especially the depth in round 2-3 and OLine!!!! I think it's almost guaranteed that he will try to draft a safety in that range. He also said that he likes the draft on all 3 levels of the defense... so... I wouldn't be shocked if this draft heavily favors defensive players. 

 

ALso, when asked where he wants to add depth... the first two positions he said were the secondary and the OLine... so... the OLine and the safety/CB thing continues to get reinforced as a main area for expected picks IMO. And I wouldn't be shocked if we get multiple of them. I wouldn't be shocked if we went something like... safety&corner in round 2. 

 

I think the out of the box thing comes in when you try to guess who he would value more than the rest of the league, because he certainly seems to value certain athletic traits in players higher and that bumps them up in his draft evaluation(Leonard, Braden Smith, Lewis were all athletic freaks for their positions, but were thought to be reaches at their respective slots). So yeah... I would look for players with high end traits and bump them a round earlier as a pick for the Colts IF I wanted to be searching for 'out of the box' drafting. 

 

Examples: 

 

pick 34 - Juan Thornhill, S, Virginia

pick 59 - Sean Bunting, CB, Central Michigan

pick 90 - Ben Banogu, DE, TCU

etc.

Those are definitely not bad.

 

To me, the safety is going to be Darnell Savage from Maryland at pick 59  And Chase Winovich, DE from Michigan at 34.  Both of those guys check the intangible boxes as far as being, team leaders, dedicated to football, hard workers, good character on and off the field and both will be considered by many to be reaches if drafted where I predict.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Coffeedrinker said:

Those are definitely not bad.

 

To me, the safety is going to be Darnell Savage from Maryland at pick 59  And Chase Winovich, DE from Michigan at 34.  Both of those guys check the intangible boxes as far as being, team leaders, dedicated to football, hard workers, good character on and off the field and both will be considered by many to be reaches if drafted where I predict.

 Me and you think too much alike... The first S I wanted to put as an example was Savage at 59, but I didn't want to place Bunting at 34, so I opted for my second choice so I can keep my Bunting example.   

 

Winovich might be my example at 26, but this feels a bit like I'm pushing it a bit too much. 

 

 

[Coffeedrinker]

2 minutes ago, stitches said:

 Me and you think too much alike... The first S I wanted to put as an example was Savage at 59, but I didn't want to place Bunting at 34, so I opted for my second choice so I can keep my Bunting example.   

 

 

yeah we do because I would not be upset at all if the Colts went Thornhill, Bunting, Banogu

[chad72]

4 minutes ago, stitches said:

 Me and you think too much alike... The first S I wanted to put as an example was Savage at 59, but I didn't want to place Bunting at 34, so I opted for my second choice so I can keep my Bunting example.   

 

Winovich might be my example at 26, but this feels a bit like I'm pushing it a bit too much. 

 

 

What do you feel about Abrams or Chauncey Gardner Johnson at 26? Do you see a Keanu Neal type safety in either of them?

[EastStreet]

I love Thornhill, just not sure I'd go 34. Most mocks I've seen he's in the 50s, up from the 60s or higher. I'd love him at 59 though. If S is what we wanted at 59, Hooker and Savage should be there. I like CGJ too, but like Thornhill, wouldn't go 34. I'd bet CGJ goes in early to mid 40s, Thornhill in the 50s. 

 

This is one area I'd like to see them try to move up from 59 (trade 59 and one of the 4ths) to grab Thornhill.

[stitches]

29 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

What do you feel about Abrams or Chauncey Gardner Johnson at 26? Do you see a Keanu Neal type safety in either of them?

With Abrams yes. Same type of hard hitting, fly to the ball strong safety. I think Chauncey is more Minkah-ish than Keanu Neal type. I think he's more versatile than Abrams and can be played in multiple roles in the defensive backfield - slot corner, nickel, strong safety, maybe free safety, maybe in some situations he can even play outside corner... He can be the ultimate mismatch breaker in sub-packages. 

 

edit: I feel obliged to say - I'm talking about style/type of player, rather than expected level of play. 

[chad72]

32 minutes ago, stitches said:

With Abrams yes. Same type of hard hitting, fly to the ball strong safety. I think Chauncey is more Minkah-ish than Keanu Neal type. I think he's more versatile than Abrams and can be played in multiple roles in the defensive backfield - slot corner, nickel, strong safety, maybe free safety, maybe in some situations he can even play outside corner... He can be the ultimate mismatch breaker in sub-packages. 

 

edit: I feel obliged to say - I'm talking about style/type of player, rather than expected level of play. 

 

Chauncey's versatility could help us run so many packages and if we ever run 3 safety packages, we would like every one amongst those 3 safeties to be able to hold up vs the pass. 

 

If we go against teams with good TEs and pass catching RBs, I am afraid Abrams might be a liability. That is the first thought that comes to my mind. You don't want to have a first rounder that you would have to scheme to protect their weakness. Just my thoughts.

 

However, if they think Kenny Moore is our Chauncey and they already have him on our roster, the Colts could prefer Abrams over Chauncey???

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Chauncey's versatility could help us run so many packages and if we ever run 3 safety packages, we would like every one amongst those 3 safeties to be able to hold up vs the pass. 

 

If we go against teams with good TEs and pass catching RBs, I am afraid Abrams might be a liability. That is the first thought that comes to my mind. You don't want to have a first rounder that you would have to scheme to protect their weakness. Just my thoughts.

 

However, if they think Kenny Moore is our Chauncey and they already have him on our roster, the Colts could prefer Abrams over Chauncey???

I wouldn't let Kenny Moore dictate my draft decisions, especially at the top of the draft. Kenny Moore's contract is up next year and we don't know what will happen with him after and whether Ballard will want to give him big money or not. Just draft the player that you think can help you most. I can see the argument for Abrams type of safety and I can see the argument for Gardner-Johnson type. I think they both can succeed in our system and I wouldn't mind drafting either. 

[Coffeedrinker]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Chauncey's versatility could help us run so many packages and if we ever run 3 safety packages, we would like every one amongst those 3 safeties to be able to hold up vs the pass. 

 

If we go against teams with good TEs and pass catching RBs, I am afraid Abrams might be a liability. That is the first thought that comes to my mind. You don't want to have a first rounder that you would have to scheme to protect their weakness. Just my thoughts.

That is why I don't think Abrams is a first round safety... I think he is too limited in his role for the Colts style of D.  From what I've read and seen of Johnson, I think he and Savage are similar players and similar skill sets but I think Savage is a bit of a better tackler and a bit faster but Johnson is a bit bigger and better short area quickness

[krunk]

Abrams reminds me of Geathers to be quite honest.