Hernandez

[hoosierhawk]

He is on TV right now. Haven't seen him play before but PFF rated him ahead of Nelson. Has given up 2 sacks so far. Doesn't look very agile. More of a telephone booth type guy

[NewEra]

Who has he went up against so far this season? I think Nelson had done awesome especially working next to back up LT's till the last two games. 

[hoosierhawk]

agree.

[Boiler_Colt]

Every time I watch the Giants play he gets worked at least twice per game so that's why I never put a whole lot of stock into PFF.

[Boiler_Colt]

29 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Who has he went up against so far this season? I think Nelson had done awesome especially working next to back up LT's till the last two games. 

Yep, Nelson was actually helping out Clark a lot in pass pro. He hasnt had to do that since Castonzo has been back which is why you see the whole unit getting better.

[PeterBowman]

Other than Donald, Nelson has pretty much gone up against most of the best D lineman in the league....Geno Atkins, Clowney, Fletcher Cox, and has more than held his own and even dominated at times.

[chad72]

I am glad someone started this thread. Yeah, the drop off was significant enough in most GMs' eyes, that most of them pegged Q as a Top 10 pick. I guess some of us want to sacrifice quality for quantity (more draft picks). Heck, we might as well have given up Luck for the whole draft that Mike Holmgren was willing to give up, no??? ...

 

Hope more eyes got to see tonight's performance. 

[WoolMagnet]

I was watching the Giants a week or two ago (mainly to watch Barkley).  I watched Hernandez very closely and was not impressed.  He seemed average at best.

  He and Nelson are both rookies so i expect development from both.  

  But the way things seems to be going with the draftees,   I like the Nelson/smith/leonard combo better  than r.smith/hernandez or chubb/hernandez.   That trade with the Jets was a gift from God.

[Track Guy]

Both Hernandez and Nelson are good young players, but yes... I'm happy we took Nelson. 

[NewColtsFan]

 

So......

 

It's OK to give Nelson a pass as he's been good but not great.    Afterall,  he's been working almost exclusively next to back-up LT's.

 

But it's not OK to give Hernandez that same pass.    I don't know if he's the LG or the RG,  but the Gaints line has been poor for years and was getting bad reviews tonight on Monday Night Football, including LT Nate Solder who looks simply terrible.

 

I love Nelson and think he's going to be everything we hope.     I'm just amused how people shape their arguments pro and con to fit their beliefs.

 

[Surge89]

43 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So......

 

It's OK to give Nelson a pass as he's been good but not great.    Afterall,  he's been working almost exclusively next to back-up LT's.

 

But it's not OK to give Hernandez that same pass.    I don't know if he's the LG or the RG,  but the Gaints line has been poor for years and was getting bad reviews tonight on Monday Night Football, including LT Nate Solder who looks simply terrible.

 

I love Nelson and think he's going to be everything we hope.     I'm just amused how people shape their arguments pro and con to fit their beliefs.

 

 

Lol thank you.

 

Hernandez showed he's an above average guard btw.  We wouldn't have done bad getting him at all.  You have to remember the tackles he is playing next to are some of the absolute worst in the NFC.

[BlueShoe]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

So......

 

It's OK to give Nelson a pass as he's been good but not great.    Afterall,  he's been working almost exclusively next to back-up LT's.

 

But it's not OK to give Hernandez that same pass.    I don't know if he's the LG or the RG,  but the Gaints line has been poor for years and was getting bad reviews tonight on Monday Night Football, including LT Nate Solder who looks simply terrible.

 

I love Nelson and think he's going to be everything we hope.     I'm just amused how people shape their arguments pro and con to fit their beliefs.

 

 

 

“I'm just amused how people shape their arguments pro and con to fit their beliefs.”

 

Do you mean people tend to justify what they want to believe? 

 

You are so correct. 

 

Truth is that Nelson and Hernandez have both had good moments this season and both will likely have good careers. I think Nelson has the much higher upside. That said, he has also struggled at times.

 

Even The Greats have days when they struggle. People might be surprised to know that even the great Anthony Munoz had days when he struggled. 

 

A couple of weeks ago, Nelson got smashed on the line of scrimmage and blown off his feet. He has also had his share of victories in the trenches. 

 

I think it’s possible that AC, Nelson, and Kelly could be the best LT, LG, C combo within the next couple of years. They need to get more reps together though. 

[Alex22]

41 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Lol thank you.

 

Hernandez showed he's an above average guard btw.  We wouldn't have done bad getting him at all.  You have to remember the tackles he is playing next to are some of the absolute worst in the NFC.

 

Solder is good 

[Surge89]

5 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

Solder is good 

 

Lol. k

 

He wasn't even average in NE the king of Oline development. People get infatuated with the names Collinsworthless inflates.  

[shasta519]

That was Grady Jarrett who beat Hernandez. Nelson had some struggles with Clowney. Their both rookies...it happens.

[shasta519]

35 minutes ago, Alex22 said:

 

Solder is good 

 

Not tonight he wasn’t. Tak McKinley made him look silly a couple times.

[Lawrence Owen]

I'll take 1 nelson over 2 Hernandez's.  And here is why.

1: Hernandez moves like a rock. a jagged one.  He really, really good at making himself a wall, but can't move very well.  Nelson is a rock also,...but a round one. He can also make himself into a wall, but can also move very fluid for his size.  Hernandez could no way make the pulling blocks Nelson has.  This alone makes Nelson so much more valuable. 

Plus Hernandez has short arms.  Nelson has so many times used one arm to solidify his RT's block why engaged with his own man.  Hernandez couldn't even reach the LT's man.  

Now Hernandez is a very good Guard don't get me wrong.  As long as he only has to worry about his spot alone, he'll be top notch.

[braveheartcolt]

We got our guy. He is going to be exceptional. Do we really need to keep justifying our picks to keep the naysayers at bay? I really do not care how good or bad Hernandez is, or how good he becomes, although I hope he has a stinker in week 16. Same with any other popular player we did not take in the Draft. Compare our own to the high standards in the league for sure, but doing it to justify or crucify Ballard is silly.

 

Nelson is much better than Hernandez though. *ducks*.....

[Trueman]

I still can't get over the Giants passing on Darnold. 

As if a RB was going to move the needle for them   

Oh well, at least the next QB will have some weapons. None of the 2019 QB prospects are on Darnold's level , though, and they still don't have an O-line.

 

[Lawrence Owen]

13 minutes ago, Trueman said:

I still can't get over the Giants passing on Darnold. 

As if a RB was going to move the needle for them   

Oh well, at least the next QB will have some weapons. None of the 2019 QB prospects are on Darnold's level , though, and they still don't have an O-line.

 

watch them get the 1st pick next year,...and pick Nick Bosa.

[braveheartcolt]

18 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

watch them get the 1st pick next year,...and pick Nick Bosa.

Jacoby Brissett to NYG for a 2nd & 4th rounder.....well, perhaps not.

[Lawrence Owen]

26 minutes ago, braveheartcolt said:

Jacoby Brissett to NYG for a 2nd & 4th rounder.....well, perhaps not.

As much as i'd love to get more picks into Ballards hands...I'd prefer the quality back-up QB.  But boy would i think about it if the Giants were picking 1st.  That's the 33rd pick and a 4th...would be tough. Especially since we re-signed Walker back to P.S.  i like Walker.

[Coffeedrinker]

3 hours ago, braveheartcolt said:

Jacoby Brissett to NYG for a 2nd & 4th rounder.....well, perhaps not.

I know you meant this in jest but Eli is not the problem in NY.  You cannot put an aging QB behind a line like that.  A young Eli would move around and stand strong in the pocket as it's collapsing and make throws.  A 36-37 year old Eli is not capable of doing that.

 

And Brissett would not be a good fit because he's not a very mobile QB either, more mobile than Eli at this stage but still not mobile and JB gets a bit of a deer in the headlights when he gets pressured a lot.

[Finball]

 

9 hours ago, PeterBowman said:

Other than Donald, Nelson has pretty much gone up against most of the best D lineman in the league....Geno Atkins, Clowney, Fletcher Cox, and has more than held his own and even dominated at times.

 

Hernandez has faced pretty good DTs/DEs too. Both Cox and Clowney, whoever Jax lined up against him, Kawann Short, Grady Jarrett along with Dallas and Nola fronts.

[Coffeedrinker]

I posted this the other day when PFF released their top 5 rookie lineman and people were making a big deal because Hernandez was higher... and there were several conversations about how CB should have traded back from 6 to get more picks and he still could have got the better player in Hernandez.

 

I've watched a couple of Giants games and I watched Hernandez specifically because he was a player I thought would be good if the Colts drafted him.  And he's played ok... above average bordering on good, which IMO is excellent for a rookie, especially because the Giants line is trash.  That being said, Hernandez and not been really anywhere close to Nelson in effectiveness.  Nelson is a rookie and he is losing some battles but when you look at his technique in just about all situations, he quickness, his strength and his ability to keep his head on a swivel and adjust during the play to what the defense is doing, it's been uncanny for a rookie.  He was worth every bit of a 6th pick in the draft.

[chad72]

8 hours ago, Lawrence Owen said:

I'll take 1 nelson over 2 Hernandez's.  And here is why.

1: Hernandez moves like a rock. a jagged one.  He really, really good at making himself a wall, but can't move very well.  Nelson is a rock also,...but a round one. He can also make himself into a wall, but can also move very fluid for his size.  Hernandez could no way make the pulling blocks Nelson has.  This alone makes Nelson so much more valuable. 

Plus Hernandez has short arms.  Nelson has so many times used one arm to solidify his RT's block why engaged with his own man.  Hernandez couldn't even reach the LT's man.  

Now Hernandez is a very good Guard don't get me wrong.  As long as he only has to worry about his spot alone, he'll be top notch.

 

You touched upon something that Polian used to point out with the short arms, that it inhibits a guard's ability to pick up stunts unless he has superb lateral quickness. It is not a co-incidence Hernandez's worst plays yesterday came against stunts and then hard bull rushes that cleared gaps/lanes to the QB; where the DL would do a hard bull rush to one shoulder and Hernandez could not recover or get his hands to the DL going to his other shoulder to even slow him down.  Good observation.