What’s the Plan B for DE in the draft?

[DaColts85]

18 minutes ago, Trueman said:

As someone who doesn’t watch much College football, Chubb is becoming more and more of a question mark to me.

 

PFF ranked him @ #21 , and then conversely, Louis Riddick recently said he’s better than Myles Garrett.

 

I would not hold a lot into PFF rankings, just as I would not go solely off the word of Riddick.  Louis does have some good knowledge though.  Chubb will be a solid player, and is a complete player overall.  He does not have the freak athletic abilities of Garrett, but he has better technique and is a run stopper.

[jshipp23]

OKORONKWO....

[dgambill]

There is such a gap at that position. I would think one of those 2nd round picks would then be used but in the second really only Landry I like. Seems most of the value is in 3rd or later....and maybe we wait that long. Honestly we can go with what we have...but I'd prefer to get us some help. I'm really hoping Basham will fit naturally into a DE spot and surprise us. We have a lot of holes to fill....and some extra picks. If it doesn't get addressed this year it will next.

[Jaredfor3]

My Bold prediction: Barkley drops to the 6th pick and Chubb does not. 

 

 

[richard pallo]

4 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

There’s now reason to believe we won’t get Chubb. The question is what to do if we don’t. Davenport might go round one, and I’m not one of the people who think we’re going to trade down with the Bills do he’s off the table. Do we grab a not as elite DE project or wait until 2019? Next year could feature Clelin Ferrell and Nick Bosa.

I think Bosa is a pipe dream considering where we will be picking.   Best to trade back with the Bills and use one of their 1st's on one.  

[richard pallo]

We could still obtain Irving before the tender expires 4/20 or there about's. The talk has quieted down but I wouldn't rule it out especially for the Colts. 

[Trueman]

18 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

I would not hold a lot into PFF rankings, just as I would not go solely off the word of Riddick.  Louis does have some good knowledge though.  Chubb will be a solid player, and is a complete player overall.  He does not have the freak athletic abilities of Garrett, but he has better technique and is a run stopper.

 

PFF not your cup of tea?

 

And yeah, Riddick is the only person I’ve seen/heard say that. He also put Solomon Thomas ahead of Garrett last year, so ....

 

I’m just not sure “solid” and “complete player” is what a DE in the top 10 should provide. He needs to be an elite pass-rusher , imo.

 

Like I said, I don’t watch enough College ball to really form any of my own thoughts. I’m just regurgitating opinions, really.

[krunk]

15 minutes ago, Trueman said:

 

PFF not your cup of tea?

 

And yeah, Riddick is the only person I’ve seen/heard say that. He also put Solomon Thomas ahead of Garrett last year, so ....

 

I’m just not sure “solid” and “complete player” is what a DE in the top 10 should provide. He needs to be an elite pass-rusher , imo.

 

Like I said, I don’t watch enough College ball to really form any of my own thoughts. I’m just regurgitating opinions, really.

You tried to downplay the opinion from riddick to slide in the info from PFF to say "ahh this is what he really is"!  Therefore he's solid and shouldn't be in the top 10.  Find me an analyst anywhere that says Chubb shouldn't be in the top ten. What in his production says he shouldn't be in the top 10?   And Riddick isn't the only one whose said what he's said.

[Trueman]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

You tried to downplay the opinion from riddick to slide in the info from PFF to say "ahh this is what he really is"!  Therefore he's solid and shouldn't be in the top 10.  Find me an analyst anywhere that says Chubb shouldn't be in the top ten. What in his production says he shouldn't be in the top 10?   And Riddick isn't the only one whose said what he's said.

 

I didn’t “try to downplay” anything. I clearly stated I don’t watch enough College ball.

 

I showed two differing opinions which I considered to be on the extreme , that’s it.

 

You’re acting as if I have an agenda, when I even said I’m just regurgitating opinions , aka I don’t know. 

 

What the hell is wrong with you?

[Matabix]

I'm in the Joe Ostman band by myself. 260. Very quick and strong. Destroyed Rosen this year when they played. Someone else do research on him besides me. Projected 5-6.

[krunk]

2 minutes ago, Trueman said:

 

I didn’t “try to downplay” anything. I clearly stated I don’t watch enough College ball.

 

I showed two differing opinions which I considered to be on the extreme , that’s it.

 

You’re acting as if I have an agenda, when I even said I’m just regurgitating opinions , aka I don’t know. 

 

What the hell is wrong with you?

Exuse me if I misread you there but that's what the exchange seemed like.  Pardon me

[krunk]

5 minutes ago, Matabix said:

I'm in the Joe Ostman band by myself. 260. Very quick and strong. Destroyed Rosen this year when they played. Someone else do research on him besides me. Projected 5-6.

I saw his name on Youtube but I didn't actually watch the clip.   I know that we did have a visit or some kind of interaction with him though.   Will check him out.

[Trueman]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Exuse me if I misread you there but that's what the exchange seemed like.  Pardon me

 

It’s all good.

 

But for future reference, when I don’t know a lot about something, I never pretend that I do. And I don’t hold one “informed”opinion over another. Nor do I get overly attached to any prospect to the point where I believe my opinion holds any weight over another’s. I look at it from all angles.

 

Look at my Hurst post. Same thing :

 

“I won’t pretend I know anything about Hurst” - direct quote.

 

 

[chad72]

4 hours ago, krunk said:

I think Sam Hubbard will there at the top of the 2nd.   Dorance Armstrong is another option. Arden Key is another option.  Landry could drop to the 2nd but my sense is he'll go in the 1st.  Other guys like Lorenzo Carter maybe.  Ogbonnia Okoronkwo.

 

Hubbard, Key, Rasheem Greene and Armstrong would be my day 2-3 targets if Landry isn't there.

 

Since we have 3 second rounders, would you invest in a second pass rusher if you already have Chubb with a second rounder? I would definitely bolster it with a second rounder if the value is right.

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Since we have 3 second rounders, would you invest in a second pass rusher if you already have Chubb with a second rounder? I would definitely bolster it with a second rounder if the value is right.

Hell yeah, although the premise of the thread was "if we miss out on Chubb". The old saying says you can never have enough pass rushers.  And I'm not even quite sure what our plans are with Simon.  If they intend on using him as a backer then that's even more reason in my mind to select a second pass rusher.   If they plan on using him as an End I do believe we usually carry at least 5 pass rushers but I could be wrong.  Think it's important to have a good surplus of guys who can get to the QB. Especially since the scheme is based primarily on just rushing 4 without much blitz being involved.

[shasta519]

I would be willing to bet that Ballard will be drafting a DL player early next year.

[krunk]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

I would be willing to bet that Ballard will be drafting a DL player early next year.

There's good ones in this draft and we've got enough picks to get one.  

[Coffeedrinker]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Since we have 3 second rounders, would you invest in a second pass rusher if you already have Chubb with a second rounder? I would definitely bolster it with a second rounder if the value is right.

Your question brings to mind an old Polianism... Never pass on a pass rusher.

 

I would say whether or not they draft Chubb, if there is another pass rusher on their board in the 2nd round, that is the player to be drafted.

 

People talk about drafting a "stud" CB but it doesn't matter who the CBs are, if there is not a consistent pass rush they CBs will be torn apart.  While the inverse is true, with consistent pass rush, you can make good CBs look like stud CBs.

[shasta519]

3 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

The Giants might be looking for a QB but your logic is not that solid.  If the Jets moved up and swapped with the Giants than we would still be at #3.  We more than likely would take Chubb.  So the Giants would not be guaranteed anything at #6, just like us currently.  

 

If the NYG were willing to move back, Chubb or no Chubb, I think they and the NYJ's make a deal.

[Shive]

3 hours ago, tvturner said:

Definitely a lot of talent outside of Chubb 

 

2 hours ago, Dirty Mudflaps said:

Earlier, Rasheem Green, Arden Key.  Later, Tyquan Lewis, Breeland Sparks.  I think the board falls much better with Chubb as the first pick, as opposed to Nelson.  But what do I know? 

 

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Josh Sweat if he drops to round 3 or to our last pick in the 2nd.

Kylie Fitts in 5th+ rounds...

Kemoko Turay in 4th+ rounds...

Arden Key in 3d+ if he checks out off the field... 

Harold Landry if we trade down to 12

Marcus Davenport if he drops to the second?

Kentavious Street in 5th+

Duke Ejiofor in 4th +

Ade Aruna in 6th +

 

Those are some of the names on my radar. 

 

Harold Landry - Undersized and maybe only a situational passer rusher initially, but I think will end up a very solid rusher.

 

Sam Hubbard - Just not athletic enough. I think he'll be decent, but he doesn't have the explosive qualities top-flight pass rushers often need.

 

Arden Key - A lot of question marks, but if he can keep the foot on the gas, he could be a really good pass rusher.

 

Chad Thomas - Low college production and needs a lot of technical refinement. Could be a really good pass rusher if he learns better hand usage, more pass rush moves, and gets better instincts.

 

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo - Doesn't have the size or length to play 4-3 DE well. May be able to play as a situational pass rusher, but I don't see him as a starter.

 

Hercules Mata'afa - Lacks height, length and athleticism to be an effective 4-3 DE and too small to kick in to 3-tech.

 

Adeniyi Olasunkanmi - Productive college career, but was also against lower level of competition. He's also a bit undersized for 4-3 DE, but uses leverage well and can bend. I could see him at least being a situational pass rusher.

 

Jeff Holland - Not incredibly athletic, but wins by being a smart pass rusher and taking good angles. I could see him as a rotational guy, but not a premier pass rusher.

 

Marcus Davenport - Tons of upside, but a floor in the basement. He looked good against very low level of competition and didn't look special against the higher level at the Senior Bowl. I think he'll take a few years to develop and I wouldn't spend the 1st round pick (on a complete project player) that he's projected to go for.

 

Josh Sweat - Tested extremely well, but that athleticism doesn't often show up on film. He needs needs a lot of technical refinement and to work on his intitial burst, because his is atrocious. With a lot of work, he could develop into a very sound pass rusher.

 

Lorenzo Carter - Highly recruited out of HS, but never lived up to the hype. Has the ideal size and length, but not the technical skills. He could develop well to finally realize his potential (would be a VERY good pass rusher) or be a complete bust.

 

Javon Rolland Jones - Played against lower level of competition, but is far and away one of the most polished pass rushers in this draft. He lacks plus athleticism, but wins with technique and a good pass rush plan. I really like this guy as a situational pass rusher.

 

Rasheem Green - Needed another year at USC. He's really raw from a technical standpoint and lacks the strength to hold up in the run game. Could develop into a solid DE, with the ability to kick inside to 3-tech.

 

Breeland Speaks - I see him more of as 3-4 DE, not a 4-3 DE.

 

Tyquan Lewis - Great burst off the line, but not much after that. Possesses some good pass rush traits, but needs to learn more pass rush moves and how to string them together. Seen mostly as a situational pass rusher, as he struggles against the run.

 

Kylie Fitts - Flashed some really great pass rush traits, but also lacks the strength to anchor against the run. Has some injury concerns as well. Definitely a later round guy I would take a flier on as at least a situational pass rusher.

 

Kemoko Turay - A lot of upside, but needs to pack some weight onto his frame. He also needs to develop some go-to pass rush moves and counters, because he doesn't really have any right now. I'm also concerned about his tight hips and lack of bend.

 

Kentavious Street - STRONG AS H*LL and solid athleticism. He does lack the length needed to play off the edge and may be better packing on a bit more weight and kicking inside. Even at his size now, if he can consistently use leverage and his crazy strength, I don't see many G's blocking him one-on-one. I'd LOVE him as a late round guy to develop as a mean 3-tech.

 

Duke Ejiofor - Optimal size and strength. He also possesses ideal pass rusher skills, but is just not athletic. He's the kind of guy that will give you exactly what you expect, but won't wow you coming off the edge. I could see him at a rotational DE initially.

 

Ade Aruna - A big project player. He has the physical traits, just not the technical skill, at all. Has only played football since his senior year of HS, so he's definitely behind others because of that. He's a late round guy you could stash on the practice squad to develop over the next few years.

 

 

All of that said, I'm not entirely impressed with this year's EDGE prospects outside of Chubb and Landry. A lot of them physically fit as 3-4 OLBs, but aren't athletic enough. The guys that could play 4-3 DE are either not athletic or very raw. There's a few guys that interest me later, but I'm really hoping we can snag Chubb at 6..

[MTC]

Kemoko Turay in the 3rd or 4th round would be great value. 

[krunk]

14 minutes ago, Shive said:

 

 

Harold Landry - Undersized and maybe only a situational passer rusher initially, but I think will end up a very solid rusher.

 

Sam Hubbard - Just not athletic enough. I think he'll be decent, but he doesn't have the explosive qualities top-flight pass rushers often need.

 

Arden Key - A lot of question marks, but if he can keep the foot on the gas, he could be a really good pass rusher.

 

Chad Thomas - Low college production and needs a lot of technical refinement. Could be a really good pass rusher if he learns better hand usage, more pass rush moves, and gets better instincts.

 

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo - Doesn't have the size or length to play 4-3 DE well. May be able to play as a situational pass rusher, but I don't see him as a starter.

 

Hercules Mata'afa - Lacks height, length and athleticism to be an effective 4-3 DE and too small to kick in to 3-tech.

 

Adeniyi Olasunkanmi - Productive college career, but was also against lower level of competition. He's also a bit undersized for 4-3 DE, but uses leverage well and can bend. I could see him at least being a situational pass rusher.

 

Jeff Holland - Not incredibly athletic, but wins by being a smart pass rusher and taking good angles. I could see him as a rotational guy, but not a premier pass rusher.

 

Marcus Davenport - Tons of upside, but a floor in the basement. He looked good against very low level of competition and didn't look special against the higher level at the Senior Bowl. I think he'll take a few years to develop and I wouldn't spend the 1st round pick (on a complete project player) that he's projected to go for.

 

Josh Sweat - Tested extremely well, but that athleticism doesn't often show up on film. He needs needs a lot of technical refinement and to work on his intitial burst, because his is atrocious. With a lot of work, he could develop into a very sound pass rusher.

 

Lorenzo Carter - Highly recruited out of HS, but never lived up to the hype. Has the ideal size and length, but not the technical skills. He could develop well to finally realize his potential (would be a VERY good pass rusher) or be a complete bust.

 

Javon Rolland Jones - Played against lower level of competition, but is far and away one of the most polished pass rushers in this draft. He lacks plus athleticism, but wins with technique and a good pass rush plan. I really like this guy as a situational pass rusher.

 

Rasheem Green - Needed another year at USC. He's really raw from a technical standpoint and lacks the strength to hold up in the run game. Could develop into a solid DE, with the ability to kick inside to 3-tech.

 

Breeland Speaks - I see him more of as 3-4 DE, not a 4-3 DE.

 

Tyquan Lewis - Great burst off the line, but not much after that. Possesses some good pass rush traits, but needs to learn more pass rush moves and how to string them together. Seen mostly as a situational pass rusher, as he struggles against the run.

 

Kylie Fitts - Flashed some really great pass rush traits, but also lacks the strength to anchor against the run. Has some injury concerns as well. Definitely a later round guy I would take a flier on as at least a situational pass rusher.

 

Kemoko Turay - A lot of upside, but needs to pack some weight onto his frame. He also needs to develop some go-to pass rush moves and counters, because he doesn't really have any right now. I'm also concerned about his tight hips and lack of bend.

 

Kentavious Street - STRONG AS H*LL and solid athleticism. He does lack the length needed to play off the edge and may be better packing on a bit more weight and kicking inside. Even at his size now, if he can consistently use leverage and his crazy strength, I don't see many G's blocking him one-on-one. I'd LOVE him as a late round guy to develop as a mean 3-tech.

 

Duke Ejiofor - Optimal size and strength. He also possesses ideal pass rusher skills, but is just not athletic. He's the kind of guy that will give you exactly what you expect, but won't wow you coming off the edge. I could see him at a rotational DE initially.

 

Ade Aruna - A big project player. He has the physical traits, just not the technical skill, at all. Has only played football since his senior year of HS, so he's definitely behind others because of that. He's a late round guy you could stash on the practice squad to develop over the next few years.

 

 

All of that said, I'm not entirely impressed with this year's EDGE prospects outside of Chubb and Landry. A lot of them physically fit as 3-4 OLBs, but aren't athletic enough. The guys that could play 4-3 DE are either not athletic or very raw. There's a few guys that interest me later, but I'm really hoping we can snag Chubb at 6..

Hubbard tested well.   Not sure where the non athlete comments are stemming from.

[Reboot]

11 minutes ago, Shive said:

All of that said, I'm not entirely impressed with this year's EDGE prospects outside of Chubb and Landry. A lot of them physically fit as 3-4 OLBs, but aren't athletic enough. The guys that could play 4-3 DE are either not athletic or very raw. There's a few guys that interest me later, but I'm really hoping we can snag Chubb at 6..

And next year's crop is much deeper.  It's how it goes.  It's why I said the entire board for the Colts plays out so much easier if Chubb is there at 6.  If not, I am fearful that an edge rusher will be chased, and maybe too early since the pool is so shallow, and then we've Bjorn'd all over again.  And nobody needs that. 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Hubbard tested well.   Not sure where the non athlete comments are stemming from.

His horrible 40 time at his pro-day I think. He tested between 4.96 and 4.98 according to reports. But yah... his agility testing was pretty damn good and his explosiveness testing was good too. 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

His horrible 40 time at his pro-day I think. He tested between 4.96 and 4.98 according to reports. 

You know I don't see 3 cone as the end all be all but his 3 cone was pretty fast.

[Carlos Danger]

15 minutes ago, Shive said:

 

 

Harold Landry - Undersized and maybe only a situational passer rusher initially, but I think will end up a very solid rusher.

 

Sam Hubbard - Just not athletic enough. I think he'll be decent, but he doesn't have the explosive qualities top-flight pass rushers often need.

 

Arden Key - A lot of question marks, but if he can keep the foot on the gas, he could be a really good pass rusher.

 

Chad Thomas - Low college production and needs a lot of technical refinement. Could be a really good pass rusher if he learns better hand usage, more pass rush moves, and gets better instincts.

 

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo - Doesn't have the size or length to play 4-3 DE well. May be able to play as a situational pass rusher, but I don't see him as a starter.

 

Hercules Mata'afa - Lacks height, length and athleticism to be an effective 4-3 DE and too small to kick in to 3-tech.

 

Adeniyi Olasunkanmi - Productive college career, but was also against lower level of competition. He's also a bit undersized for 4-3 DE, but uses leverage well and can bend. I could see him at least being a situational pass rusher.

 

Jeff Holland - Not incredibly athletic, but wins by being a smart pass rusher and taking good angles. I could see him as a rotational guy, but not a premier pass rusher.

 

Marcus Davenport - Tons of upside, but a floor in the basement. He looked good against very low level of competition and didn't look special against the higher level at the Senior Bowl. I think he'll take a few years to develop and I wouldn't spend the 1st round pick (on a complete project player) that he's projected to go for.

 

Josh Sweat - Tested extremely well, but that athleticism doesn't often show up on film. He needs needs a lot of technical refinement and to work on his intitial burst, because his is atrocious. With a lot of work, he could develop into a very sound pass rusher.

 

Lorenzo Carter - Highly recruited out of HS, but never lived up to the hype. Has the ideal size and length, but not the technical skills. He could develop well to finally realize his potential (would be a VERY good pass rusher) or be a complete bust.

 

Javon Rolland Jones - Played against lower level of competition, but is far and away one of the most polished pass rushers in this draft. He lacks plus athleticism, but wins with technique and a good pass rush plan. I really like this guy as a situational pass rusher.

 

Rasheem Green - Needed another year at USC. He's really raw from a technical standpoint and lacks the strength to hold up in the run game. Could develop into a solid DE, with the ability to kick inside to 3-tech.

 

Breeland Speaks - I see him more of as 3-4 DE, not a 4-3 DE.

 

Tyquan Lewis - Great burst off the line, but not much after that. Possesses some good pass rush traits, but needs to learn more pass rush moves and how to string them together. Seen mostly as a situational pass rusher, as he struggles against the run.

 

Kylie Fitts - Flashed some really great pass rush traits, but also lacks the strength to anchor against the run. Has some injury concerns as well. Definitely a later round guy I would take a flier on as at least a situational pass rusher.

 

Kemoko Turay - A lot of upside, but needs to pack some weight onto his frame. He also needs to develop some go-to pass rush moves and counters, because he doesn't really have any right now. I'm also concerned about his tight hips and lack of bend.

 

Kentavious Street - STRONG AS H*LL and solid athleticism. He does lack the length needed to play off the edge and may be better packing on a bit more weight and kicking inside. Even at his size now, if he can consistently use leverage and his crazy strength, I don't see many G's blocking him one-on-one. I'd LOVE him as a late round guy to develop as a mean 3-tech.

 

Duke Ejiofor - Optimal size and strength. He also possesses ideal pass rusher skills, but is just not athletic. He's the kind of guy that will give you exactly what you expect, but won't wow you coming off the edge. I could see him at a rotational DE initially.

 

Ade Aruna - A big project player. He has the physical traits, just not the technical skill, at all. Has only played football since his senior year of HS, so he's definitely behind others because of that. He's a late round guy you could stash on the practice squad to develop over the next few years.

 

 

All of that said, I'm not entirely impressed with this year's EDGE prospects outside of Chubb and Landry. A lot of them physically fit as 3-4 OLBs, but aren't athletic enough. The guys that could play 4-3 DE are either not athletic or very raw. There's a few guys that interest me later, but I'm really hoping we can snag Chubb at 6..

 

Good post... I mostly agree with your assessments here.

 

I will say, with regard to Hercules Mata'afa, that he was criminally misused at Washington State... It seemed like he had real pass rush juice when given the opportunity to come off the edge (at least that I saw), but he simply wasn't used that way very often...

 

He is an interesting option if he slips due to his "tweener" status. 

[stitches]

Just now, krunk said:

You know I don't see 3 cone as the end all be all but his 3 cone was pretty fast.

yeah. I added more to my previous post. He tested above average in the explosiveness tests and he tested elite in the 3 cone. 

[Carlos Danger]

My issue with Hubbard is that he doesn't look explosive on tape... He looks pretty refined as far as hand usage and leverage, but his tape doesn't seem to reflect his agility scores at the combine (yet). I still like him and wouldnt hesitate to pull the trigger with that mid second we have (if he lasted that long).

[stitches]

Just now, Carlos Danger said:

My issue with Hubbard is that he doesn't look explosive on tape... He looks pretty refined as far as hand usage and leverage, but his tape doesn't seem to reflect his agility scores at the combine (yet). I still like him and wouldnt hesitate to pull the trigger with that mid second we have (if he lasted that long).

I have to agree. He doesn't look like he tested. Similar to Jordan Willis last year. He tested like an absolute beast but he looked very ordinary on tape. 

[Shive]

28 minutes ago, krunk said:

Hubbard tested well.   Not sure where the non athlete comments are stemming from.

The below quotes sum it up for me.

 

19 minutes ago, Carlos Danger said:

My issue with Hubbard is that he doesn't look explosive on tape... He looks pretty refined as far as hand usage and leverage, but his tape doesn't seem to reflect his agility scores at the combine (yet). I still like him and wouldnt hesitate to pull the trigger with that mid second we have (if he lasted that long).

 

16 minutes ago, stitches said:

I have to agree. He doesn't look like he tested. Similar to Jordan Willis last year. He tested like an absolute beast but he looked very ordinary on tape. 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

I know I will get killed for thia but does anybody think Landry is worth a top 6 pick?  He is only 250 but does seem to play well against the run.  He could add another 10 pounds. Just seems like a fit for Indys fast surface.  I think he will b a top 10 pick

[krunk]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Since we have 3 second rounders, would you invest in a second pass rusher if you already have Chubb with a second rounder? I would definitely bolster it with a second rounder if the value is right.

I'm still looking to see if that deal with Mayowa is going to come together.   If they sign him then I don't see us drafting two Pass Rushers.

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, Shive said:

 

Sam Hubbard - Just not athletic enough. I think he'll be decent, but he doesn't have the explosive qualities top-flight pass rushers often need.

 

Arden Key - A lot of question marks, but if he can keep the foot on the gas, he could be a really good pass rusher.

 

Adeniyi Olasunkanmi - Productive college career, but was also against lower level of competition. He's also a bit undersized for 4-3 DE, but uses leverage well and can bend. I could see him at least being a situational pass rusher.

 

Marcus Davenport - Tons of upside, but a floor in the basement. He looked good against very low level of competition and didn't look special against the higher level at the Senior Bowl. I think he'll take a few years to develop and I wouldn't spend the 1st round pick (on a complete project player) that he's projected to go for.

 

Josh Sweat - Tested extremely well, but that athleticism doesn't often show up on film. He needs needs a lot of technical refinement and to work on his intitial burst, because his is atrocious. With a lot of work, he could develop into a very sound pass rusher.

 

Lorenzo Carter - Highly recruited out of HS, but never lived up to the hype. Has the ideal size and length, but not the technical skills. He could develop well to finally realize his potential (would be a VERY good pass rusher) or be a complete bust.

 

Javon Rolland Jones - Played against lower level of competition, but is far and away one of the most polished pass rushers in this draft. He lacks plus athleticism, but wins with technique and a good pass rush plan. I really like this guy as a situational pass rusher.

 

Rasheem Green - Needed another year at USC. He's really raw from a technical standpoint and lacks the strength to hold up in the run game. Could develop into a solid DE, with the ability to kick inside to 3-tech.

 

Kemoko Turay - A lot of upside, but needs to pack some weight onto his frame. He also needs to develop some go-to pass rush moves and counters, because he doesn't really have any right now. I'm also concerned about his tight hips and lack of bend.

 

Ade Aruna - A big project player. He has the physical traits, just not the technical skill, at all. Has only played football since his senior year of HS, so he's definitely behind others because of that. He's a late round guy you could stash on the practice squad to develop over the next few years.

 

 

Great post!  Here's some comments I have about some of those players.

 

Hubbard is going to be a pleasant surprise imo. 

 

Key wouldn't be touched in the first 2 rounds if I were GM.  He just has way too many issues off the field and not enough on the field to ignore some of those issues. 

 

Olasunkanmi has really good potential.  He has sleeper written all over him.

 

Davenport... Ugh to me he didn't even look impressive against lesser competition.  If I was GM he wouldn't be considered until the 4th maybe 3rd and that's mainly because he just can't play football well. 

 

Sweat.  Now we are talking.  I really believe Sweat could be a great find.  Injuries worry me greatly but he has raw tools and flashes of putting them together that warrant serious consideration.

 

Carter is overrated.  I just don't see him ever reaching a "finished" product. 

 

Jones has the makings of a 3rd down specialist.  I don't think he will ever be an all around starter material player but he doesn't have to be to make it in the league.

 

Green... Ew I don't really like any part of his game.  He needs a coach to find him a spot that maximizes his efficiency and then learn that spot for a good while.  He's a 2 or 3 year down the road type player who doesn't have the highest ceiling.

 

Turay and Aruna both of these guys I'd welcome to Indy.  They are both great value players who have high ceilings and decent floors.  

[krunk]

3 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Great post!  Here's some comments I have about some of those players.

 

Hubbard is going to be a pleasant surprise imo. 

 

Key wouldn't be touched in the first 2 rounds if I were GM.  He just has way too many issues off the field and not enough on the field to ignore some of those issues. 

 

Olasunkanmi has really good potential.  He has sleeper written all over him.

 

Davenport... Ugh to me he didn't even look impressive against lesser competition.  If I was GM he wouldn't be considered until the 4th maybe 3rd and that's mainly because he just can't play football well. 

 

Sweat.  Now we are talking.  I really believe Sweat could be a great find.  Injuries worry me greatly but he has raw tools and flashes of putting them together that warrant serious consideration.

 

Carter is overrated.  I just don't see him ever reaching a "finished" product. 

 

Jones has the makings of a 3rd down specialist.  I don't think he will ever be an all around starter material player but he doesn't have to be to make it in the league.

 

Green... Ew I don't really like any part of his game.  He needs a coach to find him a spot that maximizes his efficiency and then learn that spot for a good while.  He's a 2 or 3 year down the road type player who doesn't have the highest ceiling.

 

Turay and Aruna both of these guys I'd welcome to Indy.  They are both great value players who have high ceilings and decent floors.  

The Arden Key thing again.   What off the field issues does he have other than he took part of the season off?  No arrests, No violence, no keeping bad company etc.  There's nothing else to name and no one knows why he took off.   If they say they do they are just grasping at straws.  If teams are comfortable with what he's telling them behind the scenes then I say why not the 2nd round?  That's where Malik Mcdowell went last year and I think that's where Key will go .

[DaColts85]

2 hours ago, Trueman said:

 

PFF not your cup of tea?

 

And yeah, Riddick is the only person I’ve seen/heard say that. He also put Solomon Thomas ahead of Garrett last year, so ....

 

I’m just not sure “solid” and “complete player” is what a DE in the top 10 should provide. He needs to be an elite pass-rusher , imo.

 

Like I said, I don’t watch enough College ball to really form any of my own thoughts. I’m just regurgitating opinions, really.

PFF has it's reasons to help with some things I guess.  I like the basis of it but again, do not put a lot of my opinions in their rankings.  Louis is also a former GM, and knows what he is saying but overall I am just saying to not form your opinion on one man's word.  Now, Chubb is going to be a solid player.  He is also going to be a top-10 pick and have a great career imo.  Sorry, I do not use the necessary words you hope for tho.  Solid=worthy of our #6 for sure.  The guy can rush the passer and stop the run.  He has great technique already, which makes him dangerous.

[Trueman]

12 minutes ago, DaColts85 said:

PFF has it's reasons to help with some things I guess.  I like the basis of it but again, do not put a lot of my opinions in their rankings.  Louis is also a former GM, and knows what he is saying but overall I am just saying to not form your opinion on one man's word.  Now, Chubb is going to be a solid player.  He is also going to be a top-10 pick and have a great career imo.  Sorry, I do not use the necessary words you hope for tho.  Solid=worthy of our #6 for sure.  The guy can rush the passer and stop the run.  He has great technique already, which makes him dangerous.

 

No , it wasn’t anything against the words you chose. It’s just that people who don’t rank Chubb as highly tend to say similar things. He’s well rounded and solid , but perhaps lack the high end pass-rushing upside/athleticism you want from a DE drafted in the top 10.

 

I’m not saying one opinion is better than another , merely about philosophical approach : Is it wise to draft a DE at #6 if you feel he doesn’t have elite pass rushing potential? Does his overall game justify the #6 selection?

 

It’s important to distinguish between actually saying “he lacks elite pash-rushing ability”  as an absolute truth , and the philosophic approach of : “if it’s true that he does indeed lack those qualities  , is it still worth it?” 

 

That’s all I’ve been saying, not trying to argue with anyone’s opinion.

 

 

[Surge89]

29 minutes ago, krunk said:

The Arden Key thing again.   What off the field issues does he have other than he took part of the season off?  No arrests, No violence, no keeping bad company etc.  There's nothing else to name and no one knows why he took off.   If they say they do they are just grasping at straws.  If teams are comfortable with what he's telling them behind the scenes then I say why not the 2nd round?  That's where Malik Mcdowell went last year and I think that's where Key will go .

 

I'll have to search for the article but he has a rehab stay (reported by Lousianna and mysteriously taken off) and multiple instances of being involved in the areas of criminal activity but never being linked to the events by law.  Also multiple people he "hangs out" with are of a pretty bad sort that his circle of support says are an extremely bad influence.  He has a history of association (even if they aren't proven and convicted crimes) with drugs and people who are in that world.

 

Imo those are valid red flags regardless of criminal validity because it shows a sequence of actions that are not mature.  Hell he was linked to a big drug bust in East Texas but his name just mysteriously vanished from any association because apparently he wasn't there even though it was said he was at the beginning.  It's all way too fishy for me and I wouldn't draft him. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs and maybe this is just a big string of coincidences but it's not likely. 

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

I'll have to search for the article but he has a rehab stay (reported by Lousianna and mysteriously taken off) and multiple instances of being involved in the areas of criminal activity but never being linked to the events by law.  Also multiple people he "hangs out" with are of a pretty bad sort that his circle of support says are an extremely bad influence.  He has a history of association (even if they aren't proven and convicted crimes) with drugs and people who are in that world.

 

Imo those are valid red flags regardless of criminal validity because it shows a sequence of actions that are not mature.  Hell he was linked to a big drug bust in East Texas but his name just mysteriously vanished from any association because apparently he wasn't there even though it was said he was at the beginning.  It's all way too fishy for me and I wouldn't draft him. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs and maybe this is just a big string of coincidences but it's not likely. 

So basically no proof just innuendo and guilt without being guilty?  The rehab stay was a rumor.  I don't think anyone has even been able to prove that to be true. Haven't heard anything in the media about a big drug bust in East Texas.  How did the media miss that one but you have the story?   If the teams saw that as proof then they wouldn't be asking him what happpened behind closed doors. They'd be saying these are the crimes/things we know you did.  Like I said if teams feel comfortable about what he's telling them behind closed doors then I don't see any problem with it.   One of the articles I read today said that all 32 teams contacted his agent for the LSU pro day so I know we have some kind of interest.

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, krunk said:

There's good ones in this draft and we've got enough picks to get one.  

 

One now and one next year seems very likely. Ballard has said that building up the DL is a priority. As of now, they don't really have any building blocks in place...Anderson/Ridgeway have to find roles and Autry/Sheard are likely more short-term solutions.

[Surge89]

6 minutes ago, krunk said:

So basically no proof just innuendo and guilt without being guilty?    If the teams saw that as proof then they wouldn't be asking him what happpened behind closed doors. They'd be saying these are the crimes we know you did.

 

Like I said it's entirely possible it's just a huge string of coincidences especially since they all happened within I believe a little over one calendar year but to me that's just not something I want to deal with in the first 2 rounds. 

 

You asked what red flags and I gave my answer.  If those aren't red flags to you then that's ok we all have our own opinions here.