Joe Haeg and the RG position

[Legend of Luck]

Piggybacking off my post about Clark, I wanted to discuss Joe Haeg.

 

Stampede Blue continued their look into the offensive line with a breakdown of Haeg at RG, and a separate breakdown of his time at RT. These articles are excellent (the best stuff on SB imo), and give excellent insight.

 

To summarize, the writer concludes that Clark is the better option at RT, and Haeg had upside, but has shown limitations.

 

Haeg's strengths are that he's very technically sound, he's mobile and great in space, and typically wins when he's the aggressor and at the point of attack. Because of this, he's an excellent run blocker.

 

However, his biggest weakness is his anchor and thus, his pass protection. He gets pushed backwards and run over far too easily. Read the articles for more details on that.

 

So, that leaves me with a few questions.

1. Has there been many precedents for guys coming into the league with poor strength/ability to anchor being able to dramatically improve in that area?

 

2. How does the information in these articles make you feel about Haeg at RG vs. RT?

 

3. I don't know much about Brian Schwenke, but for those that do, has he been better in pass pro than Haeg showed last year?

 

4. Does any of this information make you reconsider taking O-line early in the draft?

[NewColtsFan]

 

One of the reason's Haeg has a poor anchor is that he's a little underweight...   6'6" and a reported 304.

 

He should be 10-15 pounds heavier....    and maybe he will be....     the last day of the players workout in early-mid May before they break for 50 days the franchise typically posts the revised off-season player weights.

 

That'll be worth looking at.     How many pounds gained for some?     How many pounds lost for others?

 

That'll lead to some good off-season discussions.....

 

[James Ducheteau]

I think we are ok to roll with Haeg this year at RG. He does enough well that he's earned the chance to play one position in my opinion. The biggest thing I got out of that was that we need Mewhort to be healthy to allow Kelly to help Heag out when he's getting bull rushed. Then hopefully next year we won't be in the good awful shape we are on D and can afford to invest in RG if needed.

[D-lineman]

I've repeatedly stated I do not believe Haeg is the answer at right guard. Luck is too important to risk it. Need a mauler there 

[Defjamz26]

I wouldn't say it makes me reconsider taking O-line early because I've said that Lamp is an option round one for awhile now.

[richard pallo]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

One of the reason's Haeg has a poor anchor is that he's a little underweight...   6'6" and a reported 304.

 

He should be 10-15 pounds heavier....    and maybe he will be....     the last day of the players workout in early-mid May before they break for 50 days the franchise typically posts the revised off-season player weights.

 

That'll be worth looking at.     How many pounds gained for some?     How many pounds lost for others?

 

That'll lead to some good off-season discussions.....

 

I would expect they are monitoring his weight right now and know where he is.  I don't want to take another chance on protecting Luck in the hope he has put on weight.   I would feel better if we signed Pazstor right now.  In any event I expect us to draft an OL.  

[LJpalmbeacher2]

If  adding weight is a important factor in Haeg's development that should be No Problem.

I certainly have no problem gaining lbs.

[NewColtsFan]

4 hours ago, D-lineman said:

I've repeatedly stated I do not believe Haeg is the answer at right guard. Luck is too important to risk it. Need a mauler there 

 

We have a mauler on the roster right now.

 

His name is Denzelle Good.      He may,  or may not be the answer.

 

Either way,  he's 355, and I'd like to see LESS of him.    Like 335 or so.

 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

There' s a G Taylor Motion that's a mauler. I  think he needs lots of work in pass protection BUT I think he can contribute early in in run downs.

A mid-to late draft prospect.

[Legend of Luck]

7 minutes ago, LJpalmbeacher said:

There' s a G Taylor Motion that's a mauler. I  think he needs lots of work in pass protection BUT I think he can contribute early in in run downs.

A mid-to late draft prospect.

 

But, that's where Haeg's strength is too, the run game. If we're gonna add an offensive lineman, it needs to be for pass protection. 

[richard pallo]

25 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We have a mauler on the roster right now.

 

His name is Denzelle Good.      He may,  or may not be the answer.

 

Either way,  he's 355, and I'd like to see LESS of him.    Like 335 or so.

 

That could be happening too.  He was making the switch to G last year so essentially it was his first year at the position.  he could make a big jump in his second year there.  For a first year starter he was solid at the position except for pass protection.  He could be the answer.  They really liked him a lot last year.

[twfish]

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really liked what I saw from haeg last year. I think he's a guard and if he's left there instead of switching all over the line and gelled in he could have a very good year. No reason to take a OG early in the draft especially since this year is a bad year for O-line men.

[richard pallo]

2 minutes ago, twfish said:

Maybe I'm in the minority but I really liked what I saw from haeg last year. I think he's a guard and if he's left there instead of switching all over the line and gelled in he could have a very good year. No reason to take a OG early in the draft especially since this year is a bad year for O-line men.

The exception being Forrest Lamp.  He could be our pick. 

[twfish]

18 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

The exception being Forrest Lamp.  He could be our pick. 

He will more than likely be over drafted in this class IMO not that I don't like him and think he's a decent player I just am not sure he's worth a first or second. Talk about being undersized though he's 6'4 and 309 and haeg is 6'6 and 304 with a year more of NFL conditioning.

[Superman]

Haeg just needs to get stronger. If he can increase his play strength -- which is not an unreasonable expectation for a second year player -- he'll be fine at RG. But I would like to see competition along the right side of the line, guard and tackle. Schwenke might be in the mix.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

2 hours ago, twfish said:

He will more than likely be over drafted in this class IMO not that I don't like him and think he's a decent player I just am not sure he's worth a first or second. Talk about being undersized though he's 6'4 and 309 and haeg is 6'6 and 304 with a year more of NFL conditioning.

Lamp is certainly worth a 1st. He's strong as hell too. 

1 hour ago, Superman said:

Haeg just needs to get stronger. If he can increase his play strength -- which is not an unreasonable expectation for a second year player -- he'll be fine at RG. But I would like to see competition along the right side of the line, guard and tackle. Schwenke might be in the mix.

I think Clark takes the RT spot and runs with it. But I agree. I think it's Haeg, Scwenke, Good and maybe a draftee that have a competition for RG. 

[ProblChld32]

I think with a year of NFL caliber strength and conditioning training that he will be just fine. His biggest issue was he lacked the strength, so if he gets stronger. The problem will be solved.

[TheRustonRifle#7]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Lamp is certainly worth a 1st. He's strong as hell too. 

I think Clark takes the RT spot and runs with it. But I agree. I think it's Haeg, Scwenke, Good and maybe a draftee that have a competition for RG. 

Competition is good!  My hope is for Haeg (RG) and Clark (RT) to emerge with Schwenke and Good as starting caliber depth.

[Douzer]

I said all that during the season about Haeg. My speculation is he won't have the needed core strengths for another full year. Good has the power now, but his recognition and techniques were raw all season. I have no idea how long it should take him to refine those. Both of those guys should be very solid in 2018. 2017 is still iffy. 

[BOTT]

Both Big Joe (1070) and Rick Venturi believe Haeg's best position is guard.  Yes, he needs to get stronger, but that's 99% of trench players.

[throwing BBZ]

5 hours ago, twfish said:

He will more than likely be over drafted in this class IMO not that I don't like him and think he's a decent player I just am not sure he's worth a first or second. Talk about being undersized though he's 6'4 and 309 and haeg is 6'6 and 304 with a year more of NFL conditioning.

 

 LMAO! Ever hear of Marshall Yanda, Zach Martin?
 Name me a couple top guards that were/are 6'6" please.

 Haeg`s future needs to be as a starting RT or a versatile backup.
 Yes we need to draft a guard

[D-lineman]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We have a mauler on the roster right now.

 

His name is Denzelle Good.      He may,  or may not be the answer.

 

Either way,  he's 355, and I'd like to see LESS of him.    Like 335 or so.

 

I agree Good needs to lose some pounds. He is not my  definition of a Mauler. I'd actually pick up a starting guard in round 2 or 3. Other than one offensive lineman and perhaps running back, i go all defense in this draft 

[twfish]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 LMAO! Ever hear of Marshall Yanda, Zach Martin?
 Name me a couple top guards that were/are 6'6" please.

 Haeg`s future needs to be as a starting RT or a versatile backup.
 Yes we need to draft a guard

Kyle long, David DeCastro is 6'5 along with Kelechi Osemele and there are more out there with similar height. The conversation wasn't so much about height but more to do with weight if you didn't catch that....... Do I agree I'd like to see haeg as a starting tackle eventually? Yes I'd like too see Clark go to LT eventually and haeg at RT if things worked out. But I don't think it's worth drafting a guard in this draft until late in this draft class. This is a deep class in alot of our needs on defense so draft what is the strength for the year and get better value picks instead of over picking a prospect because it's a bad year for that certain position.

[Defjamz26]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 LMAO! Ever hear of Marshall Yanda, Zach Martin?
 Name me a couple top guards that were/are 6'6" please.

 Haeg`s future needs to be as a starting RT or a versatile backup.
 Yes we need to draft a guard

IMO 6'6" is too tall for a guard. Being that tall means shorter DTs will be able to get up underneath him easier (unless he has A+ technique). That's why it's better to have guys like that play OT. It works the same on defense too. You rarely see 6'6" DTs/NTs.

 

Thats why I like Forrest Lamp. He doesn't have the length for tackle but he can be an all pro guard. Much like Zack Martin was.

[Tmoney]

9 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

We have a mauler on the roster right now.

 

His name is Denzelle Good.      He may,  or may not be the answer.

 

Either way,  he's 355, and I'd like to see LESS of him.    Like 335 or so.

 

Soooo true about Good. His weight should've been addressed year 1 but if he comes into training camp at 330-335 that makes the competition at RG extra juicy

[a06cc]

I'm looking at like this. Haeg isn't a guard. The man should be playing a tackle position. Now I honestly think we can debut this. Anthony Castanzo or Castonzo, has been playing inconsistent. The weeks JM was out you can see a decline in our offensive line. This is just my opinion. I wouldn't mind Haeg getting time at LT. 

[DaColts85]

14 hours ago, a06cc said:

I'm looking at like this. Haeg isn't a guard. The man should be playing a tackle position. Now I honestly think we can debut this. Anthony Castanzo or Castonzo, has been playing inconsistent. The weeks JM was out you can see a decline in our offensive line. This is just my opinion. I wouldn't mind Haeg getting time at LT. 

I am not to sure why people hate on Castonzo but he is actually pretty decent and every year grades out pretty well.  You mention the play going down when a starting LG goes down...that obvious!  I would not blame our LT but rather blame the depth we have at LG.

[DaColts85]

For Haeg the goal is for him to be a RT at some point I am sure but that one inch compared to other solid 6'5'' guards is not a big deal to me.  He has technique and skill and once he gets some more strength that will help.  He bends well and keeps his shoulders in front of him.  Even some top talent guys in the draft I would like to bring in (Taylor Moton) is/are 6'5''.  The benefit with someone like Haeg or taller guys are they can become great swing players and depth everywhere but center.

[a06cc]

2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

I am not to sure why people hate on Castonzo but he is actually pretty decent and every year grades out pretty well.  You mention the play going down when a starting LG goes down...that obvious!  I would not blame our LT but rather blame the depth we have at LG.

No Castanzo isn't good at all. He basically feeds off of Jack's blocks. He'll have a few plays here and there, but he is inconsistent. 

[DaColts85]

Just now, a06cc said:

No Castanzo isn't good at all. He basically feeds off of Jack's blocks. He'll have a few plays here and there, but he is inconsistent. 

With your beginning statement that he is not good at all....I cannot help you so I will end this here.

[akcolt]

The Castonzo to the bench is more ridiculous then the chatter to move him to RT. He has one of the toughest jobs in the league LT for a guy who holds on to the ball. He's the LT.

 

I have said we need to draft a G and I have mocked us a RG this year. Johnson in the 3rd is who I took in my last mock. It's not easy to just add weight without it effecting other parts of you game. Good is great for a 7th round pick no one ever heard of but on Sunday he's a back up. Johnson is a great value in the 3rd. 

 

We can't keep building the OL on a hope and a prayer. We can fix RG without using the 15th pick in the draft It needs to be fixed. 

[richard pallo]

55 minutes ago, akcolt said:

The Castonzo to the bench is more ridiculous then the chatter to move him to RT. He has one of the toughest jobs in the league LT for a guy who holds on to the ball. He's the LT.

 

I have said we need to draft a G and I have mocked us a RG this year. Johnson in the 3rd is who I took in my last mock. It's not easy to just add weight without it effecting other parts of you game. Good is great for a 7th round pick no one ever heard of but on Sunday he's a back up. Johnson is a great value in the 3rd. 

 

We can't keep building the OL on a hope and a prayer. We can fix RG without using the 15th pick in the draft It needs to be fixed. 

Mewhort was a second round pick I believe.  I still see us making a couple of trades.