Tim Williams (Edge Scout #3)

[Freeupfreeney]

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tim-williams-vs-texas-am-2016/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tim-williams-vs-lsu-2016-2/

 

This is my problem scouting Alabama Defensive players. When are their successes due to their individual effort.

 

In this case, Many of Williams sacks I seen, were the result of his tenacity on the given play, with help from his, obvious stellar collection of teammates.

 

But, I think that Tim is a tough dude. He is quick, very quick, like a RB in his change of direction. It hard to shake him or fool him. He tracks the ball extremely well, (but his DT are HUGE)

 

He has a pretty good motor, but his motor depends on what the score is, when it should be on high for 4 quarters. So that's a problem.

 

He is Very Very Very strong, because that Texas AM Oline is no joke, and he one most of the bulrush battles.

 

His tackling, 9/10 so far. He's a big guy, and would be a good pick for us because he Has good size and a good drive and he looks like he is a smart player and makes good decisions.

 

But you always gotta ask, how would he do on any other team? I think he would be just as good personally.

 

His weaknesses, which is strange. He seems to have a problem shedding TE flex backs when they block (which is funny, cus he sheds right tackles and guards like they aernt even there) But maybe, he is just setting the edge.

 

His greatest strength for us, that gives him a distinct advantage over Charles Harris, is his ability to set the edge.

 

 

[CR91]

No mention of off the field issues?

[Freeupfreeney]

Who Cares. This team has a long history of avoiding "bad" character guys, and where has that gotten us. There is a interview stage, and everyone makes mistakes. What he get in trouble for...weed. And riding in a car with a gun? Was that him?. Was he in the car with crack and shotting at people. 

 

 

Kids that smoke weed are much less of a problem than say terrel Owens who had a narcisitic personality disorder that drew media circus to his practice fields every week. 

 

At this point, the NFL....wait i can't say that Lol

 

But marijuana is about to be completely legal soon. 

[Freeupfreeney]

Oh yeah and the gun was registered and he thought he had a concealed carry permit (he probably lied) but who cares. Dudes are crazy out there. But he didn't have an illegal firearm. So really what was so terrible that he did. He did rape,solicit,attack,abuse, or strike anyone. 35% or cars on the road right now have weed in it, I bet ya. Just my 2cent on that. 

[Buddy Lee]

I like the kid. A concern of scouts has been that Alabama didn't use him as a 3 down defender but as a pass rush "specialist". My words not theirs.

[UKColt13]

His issues are largely not physical or technical. Not many dispute that.

 

The widely rumoured drug issues, that firearm arrest and his issues with picking up schemes are his issues and will be his reasons for slipping.

 

The fact that he played MUCH fewer snaps than a lot of guys concerns me as well. Bama used him basically as a rush only player.

 

He's talented but with those issues he's a stupendously risky pick. 

[Cynjin]

I liked him as a first round pick earlier, but as others have said his lack of playing time except in primarily pass rush situations is concerning.  How well can he play the run?  Also, he disappeared in the national championship game, especially in the fourth quarter when they could have used a better pass rush.  I see a lot of mock drafts have him going in the first round, but based on what I have seen, that might be risky.

[throwing BBZ]

He will turn 24 during the season. 
Unwise to risk our 1st round pick on a one trick pony with questionable character. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I read somewhere he had difficulty with the playbook.

May be the reason why his playtime was limited.

[CR91]

12 hours ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Who Cares. This team has a long history of avoiding "bad" character guys, and where has that gotten us. There is a interview stage, and everyone makes mistakes. What he get in trouble for...weed. And riding in a car with a gun? Was that him?. Was he in the car with crack and shotting at people. 

 

 

Kids that smoke weed are much less of a problem than say terrel Owens who had a narcisitic personality disorder that drew media circus to his practice fields every week. 

 

At this point, the NFL....wait i can't say that Lol

 

But marijuana is about to be completely legal soon. 

 

You wouldn't be saying that if your job was on the line as a GM or coach and you're lobbying for this kid to your owner

[Freeupfreeney]

On 2/27/2017 at 3:11 PM, CR91 said:

 

You wouldn't be saying that if your job was on the line as a GM or coach and you're lobbying for this kid to your owner

I see y'all concern about his playing time. I did notice his film was short. Maybe his playing time was limited due to the sheet number of talent they had. 

 

Despite that...I seen him drop in coverage....I was impressed

 

I seen him blow up sweeps and options...I was thourouly impressed 

 

I saw him toss around huge tackles and guards and fight with them on every down...I was largely impressed. 

 

How much does a edge rusher need to learn in a playbook. You basically have to do like 4 things. Set the edge, rush the passer, drop back in zone, and drop in the flat. And occasionally he has to play man....but I have to watch more film for that...but i can tell from the fluidity of his hips and the quickness of his feet, he should have no problems doing that.

 

I dont think hes risky.  Now if he was a MIKE, then I'd be concerned with playing time. But you dont need to know much when you  on the edge. I still consider him an first rounder...but if we can get him and harris in the first and second. Our pass rush problems would likely he solved. So here's hoping people are thinking to hard about his "off the field issues" and ignore his talent. If he skips workouts at the combine, he could be there in the second for us. 

[JRnINDY]

4 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

His issues are largely not physical or technical. Not many dispute that.

 

The widely rumoured drug issues, that firearm arrest and his issues with picking up schemes are his issues and will be his reasons for slipping.

So far it's all a rumor as you stated. He was not arrested or charged with firearm because he had a permit just not on him.

 

4 hours ago, UKColt13 said:

 

The fact that he played MUCH fewer snaps than a lot of guys concerns me as well. Bama used him basically as a rush only player.

 

He's talented but with those issues he's a stupendously risky pick. 

At Bama he was not needed for run plays when his back up was the #1 recruit (Hand) who excels against the run. Williams run D stats are very good just limited.

 

I feel he's the best pass rushing edge in the draft and a day one starter. Exactly what the Colts are missing.

[UKColt13]

Ther

Just now, JRnINDY said:

So far it's all a rumor as you stated. He was not arrested or charged with firearm because he had a permit just not on him.

 

At Bama he was not needed for run plays when his back up was the #1 recruit (Hand) who excels against the run. Williams run D stats are very good just limited.

 

I feel he's the best pass rushing edge in the draft and a day one starter. Exactly what the Colts are missing.

 

All rumour. But unrefuted rumour. The lack of people coming to his defense worries. There was also weed found in the car when he got popped for the firearm if I remember right.

 

Even so, he is relatively unproven vs the run. I'd like to see more on tape. But if I'm honest it's not really his rape that would stop me drafting him. 

 

Hes had had to have things simplified for him at Bama. And good backup or not he is not trusted to stay in against the run by the Bama coaches. 

 

Dont get me wrong ge he is very talented but the red flags as it stands are too many for me, certainly at #14.

 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Mention Tim -- everyone freaks out about all his "horrible" off field issues. Mention Dalvin Cook -- nobody brings up anything. So annoying. 

Lets just talk about his play. He has amazing burst and is great with his hands. Not as bad against the run as everyone thinks either. If his character checks out with Ballard, I'd be all for it at #15.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I think he will drop to the latter third of the 1st round. If nothing outstanding is left at 14

I Wouldn't mind trading back about 9 spots and drafting him and getting a 2nd round pick too.

[SaturdayAllDay]

2 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Mention Tim -- everyone freaks out about all his "horrible" off field issues. Mention Dalvin Cook -- nobody brings up anything. So annoying. 

Lets just talk about his play. He has amazing burst and is great with his hands. Not as bad against the run as everyone thinks either. If his character checks out with Ballard, I'd be all for it at #15.

If I could like this 1000 times, I would. 

[NewColtsFan]

19 hours ago, Freeupfreeney said:

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tim-williams-vs-texas-am-2016/

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tim-williams-vs-lsu-2016-2/

 

This is my problem scouting Alabama Defensive players. When are their successes due to their individual effort.

 

In this case, Many of Williams sacks I seen, were the result of his tenacity on the given play, with help from his, obvious stellar collection of teammates.

 

But, I think that Tim is a tough dude. He is quick, very quick, like a RB in his change of direction. It hard to shake him or fool him. He tracks the ball extremely well, (but his DT are HUGE)

 

He has a pretty good motor, but his motor depends on what the score is, when it should be on high for 4 quarters. So that's a problem.

 

He is Very Very Very strong, because that Texas AM Oline is no joke, and he one most of the bulrush battles.

 

His tackling, 9/10 so far. He's a big guy, and would be a good pick for us because he Has good size and a good drive and he looks like he is a smart player and makes good decisions.

 

But you always gotta ask, how would he do on any other team? I think he would be just as good personally.

 

His weaknesses, which is strange. He seems to have a problem shedding TE flex backs when they block (which is funny, cus he sheds right tackles and guards like they aernt even there) But maybe, he is just setting the edge.

 

His greatest strength for us, that gives him a distinct advantage over Charles Harris, is his ability to set the edge.

 

 

 

 

Sorry,  not trying to be argumentative,  but I don't understand the line in bold.

 

It's been widely reported that Williams is NOT a 3-down LBer because he's poor against the run.    Setting the edge is a part of stopping the run.      If Williams was good at setting the edge,  he'd play more and have a higher ranking.

 

Feels like there's a piece of the puzzle missing here.....

 

[Freeupfreeney]

On 2/27/2017 at 5:37 PM, UKColt13 said:

Ther

 

All rumour. But unrefuted rumour. The lack of people coming to his defense worries. There was also weed found in the car when he got popped for the firearm if I remember right.

 

Even so, he is relatively unproven vs the run. I'd like to see more on tape. But if I'm honest it's not really his rape that would stop me drafting him. 

On 2/27/2017 at 8:21 PM, NewColtsFan said:

 

Sorry,  not trying to be argumentative,  but I don't understand the line in bold.

 

It's been widely reported that Williams is NOT a 3-down LBer because he's poor against the run.    Setting the edge is a part of stopping the run.      If Williams was good at setting the edge,  he'd play more and have a higher ranking.

 

Feels like there's a piece of the puzzle missing here.....

 

 

Okay, Not to be rude, I really am not trying to be rude. And if I do come off as rude, I'm sorry, (moderator don't ban me) but UKCOLT your really need to stop commenting, based off or Sports writers comments. Sometimes, they are just plain 100% wrong. And UK and New Colts. I literally gave you a link to several videos that show this dude is EXCELLENT against the run and furthermore his is MARVELOUS at setting the edge and blowing sweep plays. And he not bad against slants either...but again, his supporting cast might be masking any flaws of his, but I do not see many flaws in his game.

 

The proof is in the videos, no in what some lame, lazy article writer wrote. Forget what the writters say, watch the film. And I don't need an apology, and I wont say I told you so, just watch It.

 

[Freeupfreeney]

Watch this video you two...its only 3 minutes

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tim-williams-vs-michigan-state-2015/

[Jason_]

1 hour ago, Freeupfreeney said:

And I don't need an apology, and I wont say I told you so, just watch It.

 

 

don't worry, the way you act on here, it's highly unlikely you'd ever get one. ;)

[Jason_]

20 hours ago, Freeupfreeney said:

But marijuana is about to be completely legal soon. 

 

doesn't really matter...that won't mean the NFL has to allow it's players to partake. there are already a plethora of completely legal supplements that are still banned for use by NFL players.

[Freeupfreeney]

I'll put it like this Jason. I love the plant we are talking about. But, If somebody was willing to look at me pee, to test and see how much I loved it, and If I loved it too much I'd loose millions of dollars. I'd stop using it for a while.

 

Which is what Most players do. I'm willing to bet by next year, more than half the NFL would be avid Weed smokers but just cant because of the rules.

 

I don't think he will have a problem with the rules. But I'm hopping on that one.

 

The real question is not, Why does he smoke weed?

But can he stop so he can play football....Most people have no problem stopping the use of marijuana. It's not like Crack...or Cigarettes. It's not easy, but they was most people don't get busted repeatedly. The players that do and end up using a whole year of playing time, they obviously have control issues.

 

So does TIm William have control issues....I don't know. That's what the Colts staff needs to figure out, so they don't let this guy slip into the 2nd round. 

[UKColt13]

.

[UKColt13]

1 hour ago, Freeupfreeney said:

 

Okay, Not to be rude, I really am not trying to be rude. And if I do come off as rude, I'm sorry, (moderator don't ban me) but UKCOLT your really need to stop commenting, based off or Sports writers comments. Sometimes, they are just plain 100% wrong. And UK and New Colts. I literally gave you a link to several videos that show this dude is EXCELLENT against the run and furthermore his is MARVELOUS at setting the edge and blowing sweep plays. And he not bad against slants either...but again, his supporting cast might be masking any flaws of his, but I do not see many flaws in his game.

 

The proof is in the videos, no in what some lame, lazy article writer wrote. Forget what the writters say, watch the film. And I don't need an apology, and I wont say I told you so, just watch It.

 

Also, Weed is a miracle plant, and it needs to stop being demonized and....i'll stop there LL

 

Good lord. I comment based off of what I read and my own observations. What is written is written by sports writers and scouts. If you can't listen to scouts regarding draft prospects who can you listen to? And if I'm given a choice between listening to some guy on the forums and someone like Mike Mayock? I'm taking Mayock all day long.

 

Not necessarily rude, but if the scouts disagree with you, don't blame me for relaying a differing opinion.

 

And this thread is just turning into another 'weed should be legal' thread.

 

Mods? Any help here?

[Cynjin]

6 hours ago, Majin Vegeta said:

Mention Tim -- everyone freaks out about all his "horrible" off field issues. Mention Dalvin Cook -- nobody brings up anything. So annoying. 

Lets just talk about his play. He has amazing burst and is great with his hands. Not as bad against the run as everyone thinks either. If his character checks out with Ballard, I'd be all for it at #15.

 

What do you base the bolded on?

[Andrew Luck fan club]

3 minutes ago, Cynjin said:

 

What do you base the bolded on?

What I've seen and read

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/17/14294152/tim-williams-is-a-pro-ready-nfl-pass-rusher

 

 

• Better against the run that he’s given credit for. Strength at the point of attack helped him to make a tackle resulting in a defensive stop on 12.7 percent of his snaps in run defense.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-tim-williams-olb-alabama/

 

[Cynjin]

1 hour ago, Majin Vegeta said:

What I've seen and read

 

https://www.google.com/amp/www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2017/1/17/14294152/tim-williams-is-a-pro-ready-nfl-pass-rusher

 

 

• Better against the run that he’s given credit for. Strength at the point of attack helped him to make a tackle resulting in a defensive stop on 12.7 percent of his snaps in run defense.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/draft-pff-scouting-report-tim-williams-olb-alabama/

 

 

Thanks for the links.  I was pretty high on Williams at the beginning of the year, but I am not sure based on what I saw, that he is good against the run.  He was not used that much in running down situations and that makes me wonder why he wasn't.  JMO, I do not claim to be an expert.

[The Peytonator]

2 hours ago, Freeupfreeney said:

I'll put it like this Jason. I love the plant we are talking about.

 

You don't say?

[BleedBlu8792]

Mehh....

 

Not a top-32 guy in my opinion, even though he may end up going that high. Great initial burst off the line, but that's where it pretty much stops. He has ZERO pass rush moves, although you can mask a lot when you play next to some of the best DLineman in college football.He did practically nothing against Clemson in the 2 games they played - probably the best OL he's faced since he's been at Bama. Because he has no pass rush moves, quite often he takes wide or looping angles, which in turn, left holes for the running game to exploit. He'll be targeted consistently on draw plays. Luckily he had guys beside and behind him to clean up. He's a little bigger than I thought he was, but he doesn't look to be as strong. I'd bet he doesn't make it 20 on the bench at the Combine. To be honest I like Ryan Anderson better. I think he's a more rounded player than Williams and can play all 3 downs. On top of that, he won't cost us a top 15 pick.

[Freeupfreeney]

You wrote almost the opposite what I did Lol. But imma check out Anderson and tell you what I think. 

[Andrew Luck fan club]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000789873/article/tim-williams-acknowledges-failed-past-drug-tests-at-combine?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

I'd be fine with drafting Timmy in the 1st. 

[Freeupfreeney]

3 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000789873/article/tim-williams-acknowledges-failed-past-drug-tests-at-combine?campaign=Twitter_atn

 

I'd be fine with drafting Timmy in the 1st. 

Id be super happy. The dude is a beast IMO. He great against the run. Decent in zone coverage. Great pass rush. Powerfull, tough, scrappy, doesn't give up, doesn't like to loose.

 

Off the field issues I think weren't as big a deal as some might make it.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, Freeupfreeney said:

Id be super happy. The dude is a beast IMO. He great against the run. Decent in zone coverage. Great pass rush. Powerfull, tough, scrappy, doesn't give up, doesn't like to loose.

 

Off the field issues I think weren't as big a deal as some might make it.

I wouldn't say he is great against the run, but he isn't as bad as what everyone thinks either. I'd be happy with Tim also. 

[backshoulderfade]

45 minutes ago, Majin Vegeta said:

I wouldn't say he is great against the run, but he isn't as bad as what everyone thinks either. I'd be happy with Tim also. 

Man, he is so underrated against the run. The talking heads just seem to be spouting that narrative for whatever reason.

 

He is very strong and the point of attack, can set the edge and shed tackles. He had the 2nd highest run stop % among linebackers in 2016 (per PFF, although the small sample size does bring this into question.

 

I think a big reason he didn't play many run snaps is more to do with Alabama's rotation policy than it does with Williams' ability as a run defender. Keep your stud pass rusher fresh for pass rush snaps.

 

He might not ever be Von Miller against the run, but I think he could well end up as the best defender in this draft.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

9 minutes ago, backshoulderfade said:

Man, he is so underrated against the run. The talking heads just seem to be spouting that narrative for whatever reason.

 

He is very strong and the point of attack, can set the edge and shed tackles. He had the 2nd highest run stop % among linebackers in 2016 (per PFF, although the small sample size does bring this into question.

 

I think a big reason he didn't play many run snaps is more to do with Alabama's rotation policy than it does with Williams' ability as a run defender. Keep your stud pass rusher fresh for pass rush snaps.

 

He might not ever be Von Miller against the run, but I think he could well end up as the best defender in this draft.

With Ballard, I think there's a good chance we could draft him. I agree that his limited snaps aren't a red flag. He is a beast. 

[Smonroe]

On 2/27/2017 at 3:52 PM, Freeupfreeney said:

Watch this video you two...its only 3 minutes

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/tim-williams-vs-michigan-state-2015/

 

Wow.  He was horrible in that game!  If that was every snap, he was practically non-existent.  He may have been in on one sack, and hardly put any pressure on the QB.

 

I knew he had a bad game against Clemson and that game was two years ago.  But if anyone is advocating him, they better put out a different tape.

[JRnINDY]

Tim Williams would be a great pick for the Colts. All I read is we need a pass rush, we need to get QB pressures, more speed on the edges, etc. etc.

Heres a chance to get arguably the best pure pass rusher in the draft.

[Smonroe]

14 minutes ago, JRnINDY said:

Tim Williams would be a great pick for the Colts. All I read is we need a pass rush, we need to get QB pressures, more speed on the edges, etc. etc.

Heres a chance to get arguably the best pure pass rusher in the draft.

 

Preface this with I'm no Bama hater.  I'm a Buckeye living in Bama with a daughter going to school there.  I admire what Saban is able to do each year.  I think in spite of their loss to Clemson, that could have been the best college football defense, maybe ever.

 

All that being said - PLEASE watch some Tim Williams tape against the better teams they played.  They killed USC, but he wasn't a factor.  There's a link to the 15 MSU game in this thread, he was routinely handled by their LT.  Watch the last two NCs.  

 

Bama had so many good players no team could gameplan for him.  They had too many weapons to worry about.  Yet he was hardly a factor in games against the good teams.

 

If I'm way off, I'll be happy to admit it if people can explain why.  Just MHO.

[rock8591]

IMO something about Tim Williams just screams too much like "slightly better version of Jonathan Newsome".

[Freeupfreeney]

3 hours ago, Smonroe said:

 

Wow.  He was horrible in that game!  If that was every snap, he was practically non-existent.  He may have been in on one sack, and hardly put any pressure on the QB.

 

I knew he had a bad game against Clemson and that game was two years ago.  But if anyone is advocating him, they better put out a different tape.

I'm sorry dude,  are you blind.

 

How can a sack and a half and 2 pressure and 2 near pressures and 2 tackles be horrible. He didn't play that many downs, but he only had like 2 plays where he didn't have some kind of an impact.

 

What a Okay game to you? 6 sacks and 6 FF?