Heat Increasing for Answers

[PeterBowman]

guess this is the go to thread for the Gruden related topics....the others got locked.

[corgi]

14 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'm not even counting on that.  I'm really indifferent as to whether any of these guys stay or go.  I just think it's silly (a) expecting change when Irsay said already he expects no chagne (b) to conflagrate an issue that, for the time being should be a non-issue until further notice and (c) make child-like demands for a response to said conflagrated issue when Irsay has no obligation to discuss anything about it in the first place.  

 

It's no wonder Irsay has said nothing on the topic, because if anyone's paid attention ot the Colts media and these forums over the past month and a half, it doesn't matter hwat Irsay says, there's a loud and obnoxious group of people that won't take him at his word anyway.  So why the hell would he say anything at all?

You know what would've made all of this stop before it started. Irsay saying "Pagano and Grigson WILL be back for the 2017 season, and their jobs are absolutely safe." Don't use a sequence of words that give you an out if you are certain. He created this mess, it's no ones fault but his own.

[masnerj]

So my take on the things, and the current silence, is that Irsay is at a crossroads with Manning right now. IF I am to believe the reports (and sadly I do believe them because I am optimistic and REALLY want a change), I think that the Gruden deal is basically a done deal and that nothing about that is holding up any announcement. 

 

What I think is causing the extended silence (and more silence today if nothing gets announced) is a conversation that Irsay is probably having with Manning right now about coming on board as team president with Gruden. Like before, there is some definite lack of agreement in that situation because apparently Manning wants a piece of the franchise (no matter how small it is, it will still be worth millions) and essentially a permanent fixture with the franchise while Irsay probably wants Manning around for a few years in a salary basis before committing to something so permanent. 

 

All in all, I believe that we are going hear one of 2 things either today or tommorow: Gruden gets hired and assumes all personnel control as well (leading to Grigson being fired or severely demoted to scouting only or something) OR Gruden and Manning are both hired in a huge press conference which will stay the headlines for weeks on end. The second, by basic nature, is bound to take MUCH longer to negotiate than the former. As of right now, I think that change is more likely than everything remaining the same and Pagano and Grigson coming back at their current roles. 

[csmopar]

Lets look at this whole thing from another angle...

 

We know the rumors involve currently 3 people not counting Pagano and Grigson,

 

Gruden

Manning

Irsay..

 

Irsay has been silent, unusually so but that's been pointed out to death

 

Gruden- I'm surprised no one has reached out to Gruden's agent for comment and if they have, obviously they declined to comment, that alone says something as it would put the Gruden rumor to rest if his agent denied reports of any discussions with the Colts

 

Manning- Same as above.  Manning has in the past denied rumors about him and as of now, not a single thing from him(or his agent) denying these reports either. At least none that i've seen.

 

just food for thought

[OffensivelyPC]

2 minutes ago, corgi said:

You know what would've made all of this stop before it started. Irsay saying "Pagano and Grigson WILL be back for the 2017 season, and their jobs are absolutely safe." Don't use a sequence of words that give you an out if you are certain. He created this mess, it's no ones fault but his own.

That's the thing.  It's not a mess.  There is no mess.  It's a bunch of people on the outside saying something and about the people on the inside and those people on the inside turning a deaf ear to it.  It's like when you're in high school or at work and people are talking "rumors this and rumors that about Offensively PC."  I can't control (nor do I even care) what other people say about me.  I'm going to do what I want to do and if I want to share anything with anyone, I will.  But their saying anything about me doesn't influence what I do or say.

[corgi]

Just now, OffensivelyPC said:

That's the thing.  It's not a mess.  There is no mess.  It's us on the outside saying something and the people on the inside turning a deaf ear to it.  It's like when you're in high school or at work and people are talking "rumors this and rumors that about Offensively PC."  I can't control (nor do I even care) what other people say about me.  I'm going to do what I want to do and if I want to share anything with anyone, I will.  But their saying anything about me doesn't influence what I do or say.

You're right but at the same time it takes no effort to say "We're all cool and the gang over here." Im okay with the rumors and silence, it's like trying to figure or if the girl you're crushing on "likes you" or is "in like with you". I haven't been in high school for 14 years, I don't remember the proper wording for that situation.

[HOZER]

17 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

I'm not even counting on that.  I'm really indifferent as to whether any of these guys stay or go.  I just think it's silly (a) expecting change when Irsay said already he expects no chagne (b) to conflagrate an issue that, for the time being should be a non-issue until further notice and (c) make child-like demands for a response to said conflagrated issue when Irsay has no obligation to discuss anything about it in the first place.  

 

It's no wonder Irsay has said nothing on the topic, because if anyone's paid attention ot the Colts media and these forums over the past month and a half, it doesn't matter hwat Irsay says, there's a loud and obnoxious group of people that won't take him at his word anyway.  So why the hell would he say anything at all?

Here's the thing....he didn't exactly say there wouldn't be any changes, this is from the interview he gave before we were trounced from playoff contention.....

 

"“Right now, I’m not anticipating making any changes,’’ he told USA Today. “That can always change. It always can when we’re sitting down at the end of the year and evaluate things."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/fox59.com/2016/12/14/colts-jim-irsay-not-anticipating-changes-says-that-can-change/amp/?client=safari

 

 

 

So going by his statement changes could happen, especially since we didn't make playoffs again. I would love to see some changes but whatever happens I won't sleep over it.

[HOZER]

5 minutes ago, corgi said:

You're right but at the same time it takes no effort to say "We're all cool and the gang over here." Im okay with the rumors and silence, it's like trying to figure or if the girl you're crushing on "likes you" or is "in like with you". I haven't been in high school for 14 years, I don't remember the proper wording for that situation.

If so would she be your Bae? Your Boo? So confusing, whatever happened to the English language? lol

[corgi]

5 minutes ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

Here's the thing....he didn't exactly say there wouldn't be any changes, this is from the interview he gave before we were trounced from playoff contention.....

 

"“Right now, I’m not anticipating making any changes,’’ he told USA Today. “That can always change. It always can when we’re sitting down at the end of the year and evaluate things."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/fox59.com/2016/12/14/colts-jim-irsay-not-anticipating-changes-says-that-can-change/amp/?client=safari

 

 

 

So going by his statement changes could happen, especially since we didn't make playoffs again. I would love to see some changes but whatever happens I won't sleep over it.

There's a reason the song was titled "I will always love you" and not "I will most likely always love you."

[VocableLoki]

4 minutes ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

Here's the thing....he didn't exactly say there wouldn't be any changes, this is from the interview he gave before we were trounced from playoff contention.....

 

"“Right now, I’m not anticipating making any changes,’’ he told USA Today. “That can always change. It always can when we’re sitting down at the end of the year and evaluate things."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/fox59.com/2016/12/14/colts-jim-irsay-not-anticipating-changes-says-that-can-change/amp/?client=safari

 

 

 

So going by his statement changes could happen, especially since we didn't make playoffs again. I would love to see some changes but whatever happens I won't sleep over it.

That is the thing. While I agree with those saying that he doesn't need to squash every rumor, leaving an out for yourself right before the division slips through our fingers does leave a lot of room for speculation. At this point, I agree with Kravitz who said that Irsay is most likely kicking tires and that this isn't a great look at the end of the day. Perception in the city will be that we were looking to move on, which can't be great for Chuck to hear.

[Reboot]

7 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Gruden- I'm surprised no one has reached out to Gruden's agent for comment and if they have, obviously they declined to comment, that alone says something as it would put the Gruden rumor to rest if his agent denied reports of any discussions with the Colts

This is my issue with the entire discussion.  Gruden is on Mike and Mike every week, including this week, and not a peep.  Now in their defense, they asked him after the season ended, as they have every year he's been a guest, if he had an interest in returning to coaching and he said no.  But the point remains, it isn't like Gruden is in hiding.  He's a weekly guest on Mike an Mike, and said nothing this week.

[corgi]

Just now, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

If so would she be your Bae? Your Boo? So confusing, whatever happened to the English language? lol

I just nod and throw up the devil horns when anyone more than 5 years younger than me talks to me:

[csmopar]

Just now, Dirty Mudflaps said:

This is my issue with the entire discussion.  Gruden is on Mike and Mike every week, including this week, and not a peep.  Now in their defense, they asked him after the season ended, as they have every year he's been a guest, if he had an interest in returning to coaching and he said no.  But the point remains, it isn't like Gruden is in hiding.  He's a weekly guest on Mike an Mike, and said nothing this week.

My thoughts exactly, now why he's said nothing..... well that's up for speculation, 

[Creekside]

14 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

That's the thing.  It's not a mess.  There is no mess. 

 

You beat me to it.

 

I want to know why the Colts don't run a more efficient offense. It has been a mystery to me all season long.

 

Just because I don't get an answer doesn't make it a mess.

[OffensivelyPC]

16 minutes ago, corgi said:

You're right but at the same time it takes no effort to say "We're all cool and the gang over here." Im okay with the rumors and silence, it's like trying to figure or if the girl you're crushing on "likes you" or is "in like with you". I haven't been in high school for 14 years, I don't remember the proper wording for that situation.

lol @ "don't remember proper wording."

 

Maybe i'ts the lawyer in me, but whne it comes to public disclosures, if you don't have to say anything, don't and if you do, say as little as possible.  So when Irsay says nothing, I get it.  Maybe he's doing it for a couple reasons - maybe he is looking.  In which case, fine, but if he is, then he doesn't have a course of action set in stone yet, at which point, demanding for a response is futile because if hte owner doesn't know, why would we expect an answer.  Being silent can have the effect on people within in the organization, particularly Pagano and Grigson, that effect being the statement that "You're jobs are never safe, so even if you're here this yera, you may not next year.  Do a better job."  Maybe he has a certain distaste for the media creating issues and fabricating news over trivial matters.  It's no secret that Irsay doesn't just leak a story to just anybody and he's selective with who he leaks things to.  If I were ever in a position to be in high demand by the media, I'd pull stunts on them all the time like when Irsay said an announcement is coming at 5pm and then after a substantial period of time tell the media "False alarm.  Come back tomorrow....or don't"  I can't remember when he did that, but he did it earlier this year and the media was *.

 

16 minutes ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

Here's the thing....he didn't exactly say there wouldn't be any changes, this is from the interview he gave before we were trounced from playoff contention.....

 

"“Right now, I’m not anticipating making any changes,’’ he told USA Today. “That can always change. It always can when we’re sitting down at the end of the year and evaluate things."

 

https://www.google.com/amp/fox59.com/2016/12/14/colts-jim-irsay-not-anticipating-changes-says-that-can-change/amp/?client=safari

 

 

 

So going by his statement changes could happen, especially since we didn't make playoffs again. I would love to see some changes but whatever happens I won't sleep over it.

As I've said before, the "that can always change" is anecdotal.  It's true, regardless of whether or not it was said.  This whol media circus is not predicated on those handful of words.  It's predicated on the fact that the Colts went 8-8 and missed the playoffs a second straight year, there have been some leaked grumblings from players about Grigson and Pagano, and its fueled by the fact that other teams have publicly made known that they are moving on or staying with a certain guy on or near Black Monday.  In all of the curmundgeonly ramblings of the media, no one has really hammered that part of the quote as the basis of the story without glossing over the sentence before it.

[OffensivelyPC]

9 minutes ago, \m/COLTS\m/ said:

If so would she be your Bae? Your Boo? So confusing, whatever happened to the English language? lol

Oh man, dont' even get me started.  It was a sad day when bling bling became a webster dictionary entry.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

20 minutes ago, csmopar said:

Lets look at this whole thing from another angle...

 

We know the rumors involve currently 3 people not counting Pagano and Grigson,

 

Gruden

Manning

Irsay..

 

Irsay has been silent, unusually so but that's been pointed out to death

 

Gruden- I'm surprised no one has reached out to Gruden's agent for comment and if they have, obviously they declined to comment, that alone says something as it would put the Gruden rumor to rest if his agent denied reports of any discussions with the Colts

 

Manning- Same as above.  Manning has in the past denied rumors about him and as of now, not a single thing from him(or his agent) denying these reports either. At least none that i've seen.

 

just food for thought

The only "reports" are tweets from Brad Wells though. It's not like it's on ESPN.

[csmopar]

Just now, 12to13 said:

The only "reports" are tweets from Brad Wells though. It's not like it's on ESPN.

no, Brad's not the only one.  there's been a few others.  That said, I'm not really buying any of them, but I do think Irsay has reached out to explore other options, who, what or when, I dont know

[csmopar]

Regarding the Colts-Gruden talk, no official deal can happen until Pagano is fired. Source said it could happen soon. No one truly knows.

 

Brad Wells ‏@BradWellsNFL  56s56 seconds ago

Just to be clear, unless people with knowledge are out-and-out lying to me (unlikely), the Colts and Gruden have talked. This DID happen.

[Andrew Luck fan club]

Just now, csmopar said:

no, Brad's not the only one.  there's been a few others.  That said, I'm not really buying any of them, but I do think Irsay has reached out to explore other options, who, what or when, I dont know

A few other tweets? It's been nothing but tweets so far. I'm not buying it, it's not even realistic. 

[HOZER]

14 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

lol @ "don't remember proper wording."

 

Maybe i'ts the lawyer in me, but whne it comes to public disclosures, if you don't have to say anything, don't and if you do, say as little as possible.  So when Irsay says nothing, I get it.  Maybe he's doing it for a couple reasons - maybe he is looking.  In which case, fine, but if he is, then he doesn't have a course of action set in stone yet, at which point, demanding for a response is futile because if hte owner doesn't know, why would we expect an answer.  Being silent can have the effect on people within in the organization, particularly Pagano and Grigson, that effect being the statement that "You're jobs are never safe, so even if you're here this yera, you may not next year.  Do a better job."  Maybe he has a certain distaste for the media creating issues and fabricating news over trivial matters.  It's no secret that Irsay doesn't just leak a story to just anybody and he's selective with who he leaks things to.  If I were ever in a position to be in high demand by the media, I'd pull stunts on them all the time like when Irsay said an announcement is coming at 5pm and then after a substantial period of time tell the media "False alarm.  Come back tomorrow."  I can't remember when he did that, but he did it earlier this year and the media was *.

 

As I've said before, the "that can always change" is anecdotal.  It's true, regardless of whether or not it was said.  This whol media circus is not predicated on those handful of words.  It's predicated on the fact that the Colts went 8-8 and missed the playoffs a second straight year, there have been some leaked grumblings from players about Grigson and Pagano, and its fueled by the fact that other teams have publicly made known that they are moving on or staying with a certain guy on or near Black Monday.  In all of the curmundgeonly ramblings of the media, no one has really hammered that part of the quote as the basis of the story without glossing over the sentence before it.

Listen bruh, I'm literally gonna get you lit with some savage bling bling no whu I'm sayin? lol

 

Anyway... When I read that statement it reeks of a person who has not made a decision on if he wants to make a change or not, if  Irsay would have simply said I will not be making any changes all the speculation would probably not exist . IMO of course!

 

 

 

 

 

[Fisticuffs111]

Brad should probably just stay quiet for a while.

I could definitely see some source just trolling him. Hard to imagine Brad Wells being a well liked guy among Colts inner circles.

[csmopar]

1 minute ago, 12to13 said:

A few other tweets? It's been nothing but tweets so far. I'm not buying it, it's not even realistic. 

i wouldn't say its unrealistic, I'd say the likilihood something actually gets done is slim. but there is a chance

[HOZER]

10 minutes ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 curmundgeonly 

I love that word, Bravo!

[Tsarquise]

1 minute ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Brad's tweets seem a lot less confident.

I could definitely see some source just trolling him. Hard to imagine Brad Wells being a well liked guy among Colts inner circles.

There is another Twitter account that has been tweeting the same things. The Twitter account is named "let's knock em down". 

[Fisticuffs111]

1 minute ago, Tsarquise said:

There is another Twitter account that has been tweeting the same things. The Twitter account is named "let's knock em down". 

Just saw that twitter last night. They, or at least it seems like a group, have been tweeting a lot since the beginning.

One really interesting thing they tweeted was the night before the Texans games. They said something like "sources tell us to keep an eye on the Texans game" and while it probably wasn't what people were expecting, a lot of rumors came from that day.

[indy1888]

9 minutes ago, 12to13 said:

The only "reports" are tweets from Brad Wells though. It's not like it's on ESPN.

 

No, there has been reports from JMV on 1070 the fan too and he has proved in the past that he has solid sources. I'd believe him over anyone else honestly.  Kravitz who used to work at the Indy Star has also commented on how he has heard the same things.  Greg Doyel who now works at the star put on twitter yesterday that Pagano is like Irsay safety school but Irsay has applied at Yale and Harvard and is awaiting results.  So clearly he believes this too. Stephen Holder has indicated he does not believe this is over either.  There have been several people who have heard the same information, some are just more open in sharing that information.

[PeterBowman]

Just now, indy1888 said:

 

No, there has been reports from JMV on 1070 the fan too and he has proved in the past that he has solid sources. I'd believe him over anyone else honestly.  Kravitz who used to work at the Indy Star has also commented on how he has heard the same things.  Greg Doyel who now works at the star put on twitter yesterday that Pagano is like Irsay safety school but Irsay has applied at Yale and Harvard and is awaiting results.  So clearly he believes this too. Stephen Holder has indicated he does not believe this is over either.  There have been several people who have heard the same information, some are just more open in sharing that information.

which is why it's so easy to believe something's up.....just not sure the stages of where it's at

[Tsarquise]

3 minutes ago, Fisticuffs111 said:

Just saw that twitter last night. They, or at least it seems like a group, have been tweeting a lot since the beginning.

One really interesting thing they tweeted was the night before the Texans games. They said something like "sources tell us to keep an eye on the Texans game" and while it probably wasn't what people were expecting, a lot of rumors came from that day.

Yeah, I noticed that tweet. They seem kind of legit to me. They are adamant that Pagano is out.

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

Yeah, I noticed that tweet. They seem kind of legit to me. They are adamant that Pagano is out.

Yeah, their confidence is surprising.

[Tsarquise]

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

@ColtsLuck1292 as we have said all along, Pagano is out. We've never changed our reporting on him.

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

Quick update: Gruden is still Irsay's main target & talks r progressing. Gruden wants to have an elite staff & make sure GM is on same page

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

We have heard he has concerns with Grigson and has people he'd prefer. It appears Irsay would prefer Grigson but is willing to compromise.

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

Right now we are hearing Irsay/Gruden are putting feelers out to various GM options. We don't know where they are in that process

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

Remember, some "experts" said decisions would be made today. They weren't. We have consitently said to be patient. #colts #nfl

[Andrew Luck fan club]

1 minute ago, Tsarquise said:

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

@ColtsLuck1292 as we have said all along, Pagano is out. We've never changed our reporting on him.

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

Quick update: Gruden is still Irsay's main target & talks r progressing. Gruden wants to have an elite staff & make sure GM is on same page

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

We have heard he has concerns with Grigson and has people he'd prefer. It appears Irsay would prefer Grigson but is willing to compromise.

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

Right now we are hearing Irsay/Gruden are putting feelers out to various GM options. We don't know where they are in that process

 

 

Lets Knock 'Em Down‏ @letsknockemdown

Remember, some "experts" said decisions would be made today. They weren't. We have consitently said to be patient. #colts #nfl

Just trying to get more twitter followers. I just don't believe Irsay and Gruden are together agreeing on a contract looking at a new gm..

[Tsarquise]

2 minutes ago, 12to13 said:

Just trying to get more twitter followers. I just don't believe Irsay and Gruden are together agreeing on a contract looking at a new gm..

What's the point in getting Twitter followers? Especially when you're full of it?

[Restored]

Look, I want to believe all of this is true but when it's coming from the likes of Brad Wells and another random Twitter account, it's hard to believe.

[Corndog]

12 minutes ago, indy1888 said:

 

No, there has been reports from JMV on 1070 the fan too and he has proved in the past that he has solid sources. I'd believe him over anyone else honestly.  Kravitz who used to work at the Indy Star has also commented on how he has heard the same things.  Greg Doyel who now works at the star put on twitter yesterday that Pagano is like Irsay safety school but Irsay has applied at Yale and Harvard and is awaiting results.  So clearly he believes this too. Stephen Holder has indicated he does not believe this is over either.  There have been several people who have heard the same information, some are just more open in sharing that information.

The general feeling seems to be the same, it appears that changes are in the works.  But we won't see reliable sources report anything until it appears to be imminent.  Talks are just that and can easily fall apart.   

[Andrew Luck fan club]

3 minutes ago, Tsarquise said:

What's the point in getting Twitter followers?

To have more followers/fans? Every "betting & news" twitter account wants as many followers as possible. 

[Fisticuffs111]

2 minutes ago, 12to13 said:

Just trying to get more twitter followers. I just don't believe Irsay and Gruden are together agreeing on a contract looking at a new gm..

It's for the best to remain skeptical, I think.

[Fisticuffs111]

4 minutes ago, Corndog said:

The general feeling seems to be the same, it appears that changes are in the works.  But we won't see reliable sources report anything until it appears to be imminent.  Talks are just that and can easily fall apart.   

If I had to bet money as to what ultimately happens, it's that a deal will fall through and Pagano will be back.

That's not to say that I could be totally wrong and there's no negotiations going on at all.

[Malakai432]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

I think it was the days leading up to signing DHB.   Irsay tweeted about working on a deal with a "whopper"

 

Yeah I remember thinking something spectacular was going to happen!

[ManningGM]

OVERHAULWINDS BLOWING