Cut 'em or Keep 'em

[2006Coltsbestever]

6 minutes ago, SkyBane said:

Age and cost. You drop a 33 year old ILB who is questionable in coverage, and gain $5.25 million this year to shop for other players. That's hefty chunk of change, and there are people who value that cap space over the player.

His age is what bothers me a bit but I thought he played Good last season. We do need to get younger so I can see that part of why to let him go.

[SkyBane]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

His age is what bothers me a bit but I thought he played Good last season. We do need to get younger so I can see that part of why to let him go.

It would be one of those things where he is just a cap casualty. The cap hit just isn't worth the player at this stage.

[Bluefire4]

Andre Johnson- Keep, really don't want to deal with finding a WR this offseason

Trent Cole- Cut

D'Qwell Jackson- Cut, I'd use some of this money to resign Freeman. All Jackson does is tackle up the field. Freeman is a better play maker and cover guy.

Arthur Jones- Keep, I think the defensive line will be cool if we keep him.

Robert Mathis- Keep

Kendall Langford- Keep

Erik Walden- Keep

Bjoern Werner- Keep

Nate Irving- Keep

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, Bluefire4 said:

Andre Johnson- Keep, really don't want to deal with finding a WR this offseason

Trent Cole- Cut

D'Qwell Jackson- Cut, I'd use some of this money to resign Freeman. All Jackson does is tackle up the field. Freeman is a better play maker and cover guy.

Arthur Jones- Keep, I think the defensive line will be cool if we keep him.

Robert Mathis- Keep

Kendall Langford- Keep

Erik Walden- Keep

Bjoern Werner- Keep

Nate Irving- Keep

Interesting Cuts, results in $11.6 million saved. You get get $500k more cap and keep AJ as opposed to the people who cut him and kept DQ.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

4 hours ago, SkyBane said:

There's been a lot of discussion on this recently so why not make a thread about it. I'll list players on our roster and what we save on the cap by cutting them, you guys decide whether to cut 'em or keep 'em.

 

Andre Johnson- $5 million

Trent Cole- $6.1 million

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million

Robert Mathis- $5 million

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million

Erik Walden- $4 million

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million

Nate Irving- $2 million

 

Projected Salary cap- $154,997,504

Current cap room before cuts or other signings- $21,200,110

 

If I missed someone you're curious about, I'll add them to the list at request.

 

A. Johnson -- Keep (maybe try to restructure) -- he didn't have a great year, but I think it's hard to judge him based on the fact that Luck was having a down year prior to getting hurt and threw multiple bad passes AJ's way and there were numerous games where I thought he was getting open but just not being targeted.  I still think it's nice to have a big-body with his ability and with his experience in the mix with the young 'speedsters.'

Trent Cole -- Cut.  We signed him to be a pass-rush specialist and he was unable to show results.  He seems to have lost a step, and we need to get younger across the board at LB.

DQ - Keep.  Dude is a solid player, very good tackler, and even at his age he didn't show any signs of slowing down last year.  Irving and Moore didn't do much to suggest they'd be able to play at DQ's level if they had to step in full time.  He is also a leader on this team.  I'd be happy to see us draft a young ILB or give Irving/Moore another year to bounce back from their injuries and see what they're made of, but like having DQ on the roster.

Art Jones -- Keep.  I think he's our best DL when healthy (which hasn't been often).  He'll be familiar with the new DC.  The fact Anderson is probably not going to be full strength at beginning of season is one more reason to keep Art.  Hopefully the new strength coach can help keep him on the field.

Mathis -- Keep.  He got better as the season progressed, is probably the number one leader in the locker room, and we don't really have any proven pass rushers behind him.

Langford -- Keep, obvious reasons.

Walden -- Keep, he played well last year.  I'd like to see us get a young OLB or 2, also, but right now I don't see anyone on this roster or any guarantees that we'll bring someone in that can play at the same or a higher level as Walden.

Werner -- Keep, but make him earn his spot in training camp.  New DC might be good for him, plus $1.48 mil isn't all that much savings.  If he gets outperformed in camp/preseason, then I hope he doesn't make the roster, but I think it's well worth giving him that chance.

Nate Irving -- Keep.  He was coming off major injury and is still pretty young. 

 

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Honestly, looking at it, we have in house solutions to all of those cuts anyway. 

 

Irving could replace D'Qwell, you could slide Sio Moore over to SAM to replace Walden, we already have Kerr to replace Jones. 

 

There's probably no drop-off. 

 

Sio did next to nothing to suggest we can count on him as a full time starter, and is probably not as well suited for SAM as he is at ILB.  Irving also did next to nothing to suggest he could replace DQ at the same or a higher level of play -- plus we don't know if he'll be able to stay healthy enough to be a full time starter over the season.

 

1 hour ago, ColtRider said:

 

To be brutally honest here & looking at it from a standpoint of revamping status, Langford hits the mark of retention. Jones can be retained by restructure, but I'm leary of injury. If we're going to build heavily by draft, (and that's what I'd like to see), it means slicing & dicing on a much higher plain IMO. It's hard to let go of what you have based upon mediocrity. I get that. It's just not gonna lead to where you want to be - formidable. 

 

This may be too wide of a sweep for most, but I'd keep Langford & seriously consider dropping the rest. Including, Robert. A very hard pill to swallow, I know. Starting over means starting over. My statement of get what you can and keep what you will is an ignition point of doing that very thing.

 

I hear what you're saying, but we really have no proven pass rushers on this team besides Robert.  Cole looked like he lost a step last year and Newsome seemed to regress.  Mathis seemed to get stronger as the year went on.  I'm all for bringing in multiple young OLB with pass-rush potential, but would be very nervous going into next year without some confidence in the pass rush (outside of Mathis, I have none for our team right now).

[SkyBane]

3 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

.

Only cutting Cole leaves $27.3 million in cap. Things could get dicey trying to re sign notable Free Agents, as well as getting upgrades and the looming Luck extension.

 

Good luck my friend.

[Gavin]

4 hours ago, Jason_S said:

Andre Johnson- $5 million - I'd cut him

Trent Cole- $6.1 million - I'd probably cut him.  I don't think he was as bad as made out to be, but he wasn't really "good" either.

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million - keep

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million - keep

Robert Mathis- $5 million - keep

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million - this can't seriously be in question, can it?

Erik Walden- $4 million - keep

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million - keep...I'd like to see him have one year under the new DC and LB coach.  The DC was Baltimore's LB coach who worked with Paul Kruger, who has a very similar skill set.

Nate Irving- $2 million - keep

Agree with this, I'd also like to add with cutting Trent Cole I'd be drafting another linebacker and have him compete with Werner and Newsome opposite Mathis

[BOTT]

Definitely keep Langford

 

Definitely cut AJ, Cole, Werner

 

and meh, do what you will with the rest

[Superman]

3 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

He has the skillset. He's a much better athlete than Walden. It's not like we're talking about turning a tight-end into a defensive-end here. It's not as if the defensive scheme is locked into having a certain position due a certain thing all of the time. 

 

I don't think he's long enough to play Sam, although his arms are plenty long, soo.... He definitely hasn't shown any stack/shed technique. He was a freelance LB for the Raiders, and a paperweight for the Colts, which brings up the fact that the staff doesn't seem to like him. And he just got a DUI. I'm not including him in future plans, personally; I'd be surprised if he makes it to camp, and that's too bad because I think he's a good player.

 

But it's not that hard to find a Sam, I don't think.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just cant see the reasoning behind getting rid of Jackson. Is it his age? He is a great tackler and all over the field. Please enlighten me.

 

He's a liability in coverage, and likely to regress. Until we get more athletic and better in coverage over the middle, the defense is going to be stuck in low gear.

[ponyboy]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just cant see the reasoning behind getting rid of Jackson. Is it his age? He is a great tackler and all over the field. Please enlighten me.

 

If you put any stock into PFF ratings, DQ rated horrible in run defense and pass rush last year.

 

If it meant signing Freeman and letting DQ go, I'd do have no problem cutting DQ.  I always felt he was signed for two years anyway the way his contract was structured.

[COLTS449]

We have to cut Andre Johnson and Trent Cole. Then I think we need to either cut or restructure Art Jones. Then I would cut DQ, give Freeman his contract and start Sio next to Freeman. IMO Sio can do everything better than DQ and more as far as coverage goes. I would cut Johnathan Harrison for sure. It wont save much but it will add up combined with the other cuts. We have to have room to give Luck his contract, re-sign Fleener, and sign 3 impact free agents. The only way I wouldn't cut Jones is if we can restructure his contract in a way to save a few million on the cap. But IMO AJ, Cole, DQ, Harrison, and probably Werner all need to go. We have to completely overhaul our pass rushers. Only Mathis, Walden, and Newsome should return. Then we need to bring in 2 who can put consistent pressure on opposing QB's and rack up some big sack totals.

[COLTS449]

Trent Cole didn't give us anything as a pass rusher this year. He's gone. We need to go all in for pass rushers this year. I'm talking a 1st round pick and a free agent. Or a 1st round pick and another one in the 2nd or 3rd. Trent Cole is not a guy that's going to put up 12 sacks next year.

[SkyBane]

9 minutes ago, COLTS449 said:

We have to cut Andre Johnson and Trent Cole. Then I think we need to either cut or restructure Art Jones. Then I would cut DQ, give Freeman his contract and start Sio next to Freeman. IMO Sio can do everything better than DQ and more as far as coverage goes. I would cut Johnathan Harrison for sure. It wont save much but it will add up combined with the other cuts. We have to have room to give Luck his contract, re-sign Fleener, and sign 3 impact free agents. The only way I wouldn't cut Jones is if we can restructure his contract in a way to save a few million on the cap. But IMO AJ, Cole, DQ, Harrison, and probably Werner all need to go. We have to completely overhaul our pass rushers. Only Mathis, Walden, and Newsome should return. Then we need to bring in 2 who can put consistent pressure on opposing QB's and rack up some big sack totals.

Per Request: Jonotthan Harrison- $600k

 

With cuts to Johnson, Cole, Harrison, Jackson, Werner, and Jones, you save $23.18 million on next years cap, for a total overhead of $44.38 million heading in to 2016.

[coltsfanmurf]

Andre Johnson- $5 million--CUT..loved the signing but we have enuff besides him (unless he wants to restructure)

Trent Cole- $6.1 million--CUT..savings in cap space worth more than the player IMO

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million--KEEP..i like him altho i see others who do not think he is worth the contract

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million--KEEP...savings by cutting him not worth it

Robert Mathis- $5 million--KEEP..same reason as I gave for Jones

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million--KEEP..for reasons others have said

Erik Walden- $4 million--EITHER/OR..I would prefer to cut him mainly for his stupid penalties he takes at inopportune times but I can take him or leave him

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million--KEEP..just cuz hes a cheap backup and ST player altho for a 1st rd draft pick he has been a BIG BUST

Nate Irving- $2 million--KEEP..solid backup for cheap price

 

This saves anywhere between 11.1-15.1 million depending on what you do with Walden.  

[SkyBane]

1 minute ago, coltsfanmurf said:

Andre Johnson- $5 million--CUT..loved the signing but we have enuff besides him (unless he wants to restructure)

Trent Cole- $6.1 million--CUT..savings in cap space worth more than the player IMO

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million--KEEP..i like him altho i see others who do not think he is worth the contract

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million--KEEP...savings by cutting him not worth it

Robert Mathis- $5 million--KEEP..same reason as I gave for Jones

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million--KEEP..for reasons others have said

Erik Walden- $4 million--EITHER/OR..I would prefer to cut him mainly for his stupid penalties he takes at inopportune times but I can take him or leave him

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million--KEEP..just cuz hes a cheap backup and ST player altho for a 1st rd draft pick he has been a BIG BUST

Nate Irving- $2 million--KEEP..solid backup for cheap price

 

This saves anywhere between 11.1-15.1 million depending on what you do with Walden.  

FWIW, my number on Art Jones in the OP is mistaken, as Superman pointed out in a later post. As a post June 1 cut, Cutting Art Jones would save $4.5 million on the cap. I would edit the OP, but the site doesn't allow that after a certain period of time has passed.

[GoColts8818]

 

Andre Johnson- $5 million - cut - not enough production

Trent Cole- $6.1 million - cut - if Johnson didn't give enough production no way did Cole and he costs more

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million - keep - yes he's getting older but he's very good at stopping the run and with Freeman as a free agent I don't think you want to lose both starting MLBers when they already have some major holes at OLBer

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million - keep - yes I know he's hurt a lot but this isn't a lot of money and you can never have too many linemen on either side of the ball

Robert Mathis- $5 million - keep - who else is going rush the passer next year?

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million - keep - I don't know why he's on this list this is a no brainier he was a stud for the Colts last year.

Erik Walden- $4 million - keep - Someone has to play OLBer next year and in his role of setting the edge Walden hasn't been bad. 

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million - cut - just not enough production to warrant him staying on the roster.

Nate Irving- $2 million - keep - largely because of the fact Freeman is a free agent and this isn't a tone of money. 

[DougDew]

At this point in the offseason, only Andre Johnson is really expendable.  He'll be no better than #4 next year based solely upon the other receivers who are currently under contract (TY, Moncrief, Dorsett)

 

Depending upon how free agency and the draft falls, there may still be big questions with the pass rush/OLB position.  You can't cut Cole or Mathis before you know that you have an adequate replacement (s).

 

And, there is no reason to cut a productive veteran just because he is overpaid...if you have the cap space to carry him.  DQ and Jones come to mind here. 

 

But if the Colts go all in for a CB, Von Miller, or Mack or Osemele, I think Cole, Mathis, and DQ are all candidates for creating the cap space.

 

I don't think there is a reason to cut Walden, Werner, or Irving this season.

 

[SkyBane]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

 

Andre Johnson- $5 million - cut - not enough production

Trent Cole- $6.1 million - cut - if Johnson didn't give enough production no way did Cole and he costs more

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million - keep - yes he's getting older but he's very good at stopping the run and with Freeman as a free agent I don't think you want to lose both starting MLBers when they already have some major holes at OLBer

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million - keep - yes I know he's hurt a lot but this isn't a lot of money and you can never have too many linemen on either side of the ball

Robert Mathis- $5 million - keep - who else is going rush the passer next year?

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million - keep - I don't know why he's on this list this is a no brainier he was a stud for the Colts last year.

Erik Walden- $4 million - keep - Someone has to play OLBer last year and in his role of setting the edge Walden hasn't been bad. 

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million - cut - just not enough production to warrant him staying on the roster.

Nate Irving- $2 million - keep - largely because of the fact Freeman is a free agent and this isn't a tone of money. 

See above about  my error with Jones. I take it you are on the letting Freeman walk train?

[GoColts8818]

Just now, SkyBane said:

See above about  my error with Jones. I take it you are on the letting Freeman walk train?

I think it depends on how much he wants.  If he's looking for a major payday I think they are better off to keep Jackson and draft MLBer and try to develop him and then start looking for a replacement for Jackson.  I also have no real issues with having both Jackson and Freeman back if it were to come to that. 

 

Still with the Freeman's status up in the air I don't think they would do anything with Jackson until they know what is going to or isn't going to happen with Freeman. 

[SkyBane]

2 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I think it depends on how much he wants.  If he's looking for a major payday I think they are better off to keep Jackson and draft MLBer and try to develop him and then start looking for a replacement for Jackson.  I also have no real issues with having both Jackson and Freeman back if it were to come to that. 

 

Still with the Freeman's status up in the air I don't think they would do anything with Jackson until they know what is going to or isn't going to happen with Freeman. 

Well, assuming you are taking Art Jones over the $4.5 million in cap space, you would free up $12.58 million, giving you $33.78 million to work with in cap space.

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

At this point in the offseason, only Andre Johnson is really expendable.  He'll be no better than #4 next year based solely upon the other receivers who are currently under contract (TY, Moncrief, Dorsett)

 

Depending upon how free agency and the draft falls, there may still be big questions with the pass rush/OLB position.  You can't cut Cole or Mathis before you know that you have an adequate replacement (s).

 

And, there is no reason to cut a productive veteran just because he is overpaid...if you have the cap space to carry him.  DQ and Jones come to mind here. 

 

But if the Colts go all in for a CB, Von Miller, or Mack or Osemele, I'm thing Cole, Mathis, and DQ are all candidates for creating the cap space.

 

I don't think there is a reason to cut Walden, Werner, or Irving this season.

 

I'd argue Trent Cole is much more expendable than Johnson is.  At least you noticed with Johnson was on the field at times last year and caught a couple of TDs.  I'd agree you can't cut BOTH Cole and Mathis but you can cut one of them.  They have Newsome floating around still on a very cheap rookie deal that hopefully the new DC can help find the guy that we saw his rookie year.  I also think it's clear they need an upgrade at OLBer so I wouldn't be shocked to see them draft one high in the draft this year to address that need or play the free agent game again. 

 

The Colts need OLBer help but I don't think you keep a guy who isn't producing and scheduled to make $6 next year just because the Colts need help at that position.  If nothing else use that 6 million on another guy and see if he gives you better production. 

 

I think they would keep Mathis over Cole because Mathis gave them more production last year and seemed to be coming back into his own towards the end of the year as he got more and more reps recovering from his surgery the year before. 

 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, SkyBane said:

Well, assuming you are taking Art Jones over the $4.5 million in cap space, you would free up $12.58 million, giving you $33.78 million to work with in cap space.

I could go either way on Jones at that figure.  I think the other side of this coin that we don't know is what the Colts are planning to do with Luck and then other free agents like Fleener, Allen, AV, and Freeman. 

 

Depending on how many of those they are planning to keep and what Luck's new deal looks like (assuming they do it this off-season) will probably depend on what they do with boarder line guys like Irving and Jones. 

 

I'd give you one more name that I don't expect to be cut but I wouldn't be blown away if it happens and that's Frank Gore, especially if the Colts draft a running back early which I don't think is out of the question. 

[SkyBane]

4 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I could go either way on Jones at that figure.  I think the other side of this coin that we don't know is what the Colts are planning to do with Luck and then other free agents like Fleener, Allen, AV, and Freeman. 

 

Depending on how many of those they are planning to keep and what Luck's new deal looks like (assuming they do it this off-season) will probably depend on what they do with boarder line guys like Irving and Jones. 

 

I'd give you one more name that I don't expect to be cut but I wouldn't be blown away if it happens and that's Frank Gore, especially if the Colts draft a running back early which I don't think is out of the question. 

Per Request: Frank Gore- $1 million

 

This isn't really about what the Colts would do, it's about what each individual poster would do if they were in Grigson's shoes and got to make the cuts, based on our cap figures. As mentioned though, adding Gore to your list of cuts will only give you $1 million more in cap space.

 

Like you for instance, you are playing cautious about the LB'er situation, not cutting Jackson as insurance in case negotiations with Freeman break down.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, SkyBane said:

Per Request: Frank Gore- $1 million

 

This isn't really about what the Colts would do, it's about what each individual poster would do if they were in Grigson's shoes and got to make the cuts, based on our cap figures. As mentioned though, adding Gore to your list of cuts will only give you $1 million more in cap space.

That million could go along ways towards keeping a guy like AV.  With that said I don't expect it to happen but I wouldn't completely rule it out.  Him being cut would have more to do with getting younger and wanting to go in another direction at runningback than it would be about the money.  Still I think the wiser move would be to keep Gore and if they want to add a younger back behind him in the draft do that and have two backs. 

 

This thread can be about what I or anyone else would do but I do think you have to factor in what you think the Colts are going to do with other free agents or at least what you would do with those free agents if you were Grigson to answer completely who you would cut or keep. 

[SkyBane]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

That million could go along ways towards keeping a guy like AV.  With that said I don't expect it to happen but I wouldn't completely rule it out.  Him being cut would have more to do with getting younger and wanting to go in another direction at runningback than it would be about the money.  Still I think the wiser move would be to keep Gore and if they want to add a younger back behind him in the draft do that and have two backs. 

 

This thread can be about what I or anyone else would do but I do think you have to factor in what you think the Colts are going to do with other free agents or at least what you would do with those free agents if you were Grigson to answer completely who you would cut or keep. 

That's why it's fun, and Dustin's 'cut everyone because we have in house solutions already' answer is amazing.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I don't think he's long enough to play Sam, although his arms are plenty long, soo.... He definitely hasn't shown any stack/shed technique. He was a freelance LB for the Raiders, and a paperweight for the Colts, which brings up the fact that the staff doesn't seem to like him. And he just got a DUI. I'm not including him in future plans, personally; I'd be surprised if he makes it to camp, and that's too bad because I think he's a good player.

 

But it's not that hard to find a Sam, I don't think.

 

Sio got a reckless driving for going 100 mph in a 65.  Not a DUI.  Two very different things.. Stupid, yes, but there is no evidence of drugs or alcohol involved so I don't think it's anything to hold against him too hard.  I agree, though, the coaches don't seem to be too high on him (or he wasn't fully recovered) based on the way he was used last year and I think it is ridiculous that people suggest based on what we saw last season (i.e., nothing) that he can just fill in with no drop in production.

 

3 hours ago, SkyBane said:

Only cutting Cole leaves $27.3 million in cap. Things could get dicey trying to re sign notable Free Agents, as well as getting upgrades and the looming Luck extension.

 

Good luck my friend.

 

The cap will go up before we need to extend Luck.  Luck's contract will most likely be back-loaded, so shouldn't really impact things too much. 

 

By cutting DQ, we have no one on the roster who we can be confident that can step up and be as good or better and with pressing needs at OL, OLB, DL, and CB there is a pretty small chance that we'll be able to go after someone in FA who is going to cost less or that we'll be able to afford an early draft pick to fix the issue.  Maybe we save money by releasing DQ, but more likely than not we will regress at the position by releasing him.  For those saying Freeman is better, I disagree -- Freeman isn't bad, he may be slightly better in coverage than DQ but has had more health issues, and is weaker against the run (plus he's also over 30 years old -- a big argument for cutting DQ has been to get younger at the position and to save money to sign Freeman -- we're really not getting much younger by letting DQ go and keeping Freeman and we're not upgrading talent by doing so).

 

Art Jones was our best DL when healthy 2 seasons ago -- Anderson and Langford both played very well last year, and Parry, Kerr and others were pretty good.  However, with Anderson coming off injury (probably more serious than Jones'), with Winn coming off injury, Kerr seemingly not showing great stamina, and little else on our DL that is going to be reliable or promising trying to make a jump to a superbowl contender (we'd either have to pay someone in FA more than Jones or use a very early draft pick and hope that either option panned out).

 

Andre Johnson, I hope we can restructure with -- but we're not going to find a better option than him without drafting a WR high (which I hope we don't do given our other needs).  We could cut him and probably sign someone in FA for cheaper but we'd more likely than not see a decline in talent.

 

Mathis is the only LB on our team that showed to be a good pass rusher last year and he seemed to improve.  We could save a little money by cutting him, but that means we have to invest in FA or in the draft (both unproven) and take away from spending money or drafting early for a couple solid players on OL, a second CB, etc..

 

Unless we plan on drafting a OLB to fill Walden's role early, we're not going to be able to cut him and expect to sign anyone as good or better for less money.

 

Pretty much the same goes for all the rest I suggested keeping.  Cole is obviously overpaid for lack of production -- cut him and we can replace him with better production for cheaper pay.  When you act like we're not taking an opportunity to free up cap space by cutting these players, keep in mind that we're not going to find options for cheaper that will perform as well or better in the FA market and we have a mid-late draft selection and only a limited number of draft picks.... I'd say good luck improving this team by cutting all these players and finding replacements that aren't going to cost more.

[SkyBane]

3 minutes ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

 

Sio got a reckless driving for going 100 mph in a 65.  Not a DUI.  Two very different things.. Stupid, yes, but there is no evidence of drugs or alcohol involved so I don't think it's anything to hold against him too hard.  I agree, though, the coaches don't seem to be too high on him (or he wasn't fully recovered) based on the way he was used last year and I think it is ridiculous that people suggest based on what we saw last season (i.e., nothing) that he can just fill in with no drop in production.

 

 

The cap will go up before we need to extend Luck.  Luck's contract will most likely be back-loaded, so shouldn't really impact things too much. 

 

By cutting DQ, we have no one on the roster who we can be confident that can step up and be as good or better and with pressing needs at OL, OLB, DL, and CB there is a pretty small chance that we'll be able to go after someone in FA who is going to cost less or that we'll be able to afford an early draft pick to fix the issue.  Maybe we save money by releasing DQ, but more likely than not we will regress at the position by releasing him.  For those saying Freeman is better, I disagree -- Freeman isn't bad, he may be slightly better in coverage than DQ but has had more health issues, and is weaker against the run (plus he's also over 30 years old -- a big argument for cutting DQ has been to get younger at the position and to save money to sign Freeman -- we're really not getting much younger by letting DQ go and keeping Freeman and we're not upgrading talent by doing so).

 

Art Jones was our best DL when healthy 2 seasons ago -- Anderson and Langford both played very well last year, and Parry, Kerr and others were pretty good.  However, with Anderson coming off injury (probably more serious than Jones'), with Winn coming off injury, Kerr seemingly not showing great stamina, and little else on our DL that is going to be reliable or promising trying to make a jump to a superbowl contender (we'd either have to pay someone in FA more than Jones or use a very early draft pick and hope that either option panned out).

 

Andre Johnson, I hope we can restructure with -- but we're not going to find a better option than him without drafting a WR high (which I hope we don't do given our other needs).  We could cut him and probably sign someone in FA for cheaper but we'd more likely than not see a decline in talent.

 

Mathis is the only LB on our team that showed to be a good pass rusher last year and he seemed to improve.  We could save a little money by cutting him, but that means we have to invest in FA or in the draft (both unproven) and take away from spending money or drafting early for a couple solid players on OL, a second CB, etc..

 

Unless we plan on drafting a OLB to fill Walden's role early, we're not going to be able to cut him and expect to sign anyone as good or better for less money.

 

Pretty much the same goes for all the rest I suggested keeping.  Cole is obviously overpaid for lack of production -- cut him and we can replace him with better production for cheaper pay.  When you act like we're not taking an opportunity to free up cap space by cutting these players, keep in mind that we're not going to find options for cheaper that will perform as well or better in the FA market and we have a mid-late draft selection and only a limited number of draft picks.... I'd say good luck improving this team by cutting all these players and finding replacements that aren't going to cost more.

I was honestly just wondering how you were going to re sign our own pending free agents with only ~$20 in cap space after factoring in what's needed for the draft. No real comment on finding replacement talent.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, ColtsFanMikeC said:

Sio got a reckless driving for going 100 mph in a 65.  Not a DUI.  Two very different things.. Stupid, yes, but there is no evidence of drugs or alcohol involved so I don't think it's anything to hold against him too hard.  I agree, though, the coaches don't seem to be too high on him (or he wasn't fully recovered) based on the way he was used last year and I think it is ridiculous that people suggest based on what we saw last season (i.e., nothing) that he can just fill in with no drop in production.

 

Yup, not a DUI. That's not really the point, though. He was already on thin ice, IMO, and his arrest doesn't help.

 

I think he can play ILB with no problem, assuming he's healthy. Might not be as good with the angles as D'Qwell, but he's more athletic. Moving him to Sam, though, is a different story.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

1 hour ago, SkyBane said:

I was honestly just wondering how you were going to re sign our own pending free agents with only ~$20 in cap space after factoring in what's needed for the draft. No real comment on finding replacement talent.

 

Of the free-agents we have the only one I think we really need to worry about resigning is Vinatieri.  Then there are fringe players like Lowery, Allen/Fleener, Freeman, and maybe Winn and Anderson who might be worthwhile keeping.

 

 

[DougDew]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I'd argue Trent Cole is much more expendable than Johnson is.  At least you noticed with Johnson was on the field at times last year and caught a couple of TDs.  I'd agree you can't cut BOTH Cole and Mathis but you can cut one of them.  They have Newsome floating around still on a very cheap rookie deal that hopefully the new DC can help find the guy that we saw his rookie year.  I also think it's clear they need an upgrade at OLBer so I wouldn't be shocked to see them draft one high in the draft this year to address that need or play the free agent game again. 

 

The Colts need OLBer help but I don't think you keep a guy who isn't producing and scheduled to make $6 next year just because the Colts need help at that position.  If nothing else use that 6 million on another guy and see if he gives you better production. 

 

I think they would keep Mathis over Cole because Mathis gave them more production last year and seemed to be coming back into his own towards the end of the year as he got more and more reps recovering from his surgery the year before. 

 

Its not so much who is the better player, its about how good he is relative to others.

 

AJ is the 4th best WR on the team, and Cole is probably the #1 OLB.  I'd say Cole is more important to the team than AJ,,  at least now before FA and the draft.

[GoColts8818]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Its not so much who is the better player, its about how good he is relative to others.

 

AJ is the 4th best WR on the team, and Cole is probably the #1 OLB.  I'd say Cole is more important to the team than AJ,,  at least now before FA and the draft.

Mathis and Walden are our top two OLBers althought for different reasons.  Again, Cole gave you a little more production to the team than Newsome did.  Newsome is younger and far cheaper.  There is no reason you couldn't release Cole, see what Newsome can do under the new DC and see if he can find away to get Newsome back to his rookie self and then draft another OLBer and be fine in terms of pass rushing linebackers. 

[Superman]

50 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Cole is probably the #1 OLB

 

Which means you need to drastically upgrade the OLBs. Doesn't mean you need to keep the bad ones.

 

They completely rebuilt the defensive line last year. They didn't keep Redding because he was one of the best we had. Cole can go. 

[rock8591]

Langford def keep. Dude was a top 10 3-4 DE last year, 30 years old but never missed a single game in 8 seasons.

The only reason he was buried on the bench in St. Louis was because of Aaron Donald.

[Quallenregen]

Andre Johnson- $5 million keep

Trent Cole- $6.1 million cut

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million cut

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million keep

Robert Mathis- $5 million keep

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million keep

Erik Walden- $4 million keep

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million keep

Nate Irving- $2 million keep

 

Werner   2014    2 year    50 T  37-13   4 Sack

(Walden 2014)                 37 T  25-12   6 Sack

Newsome            2 year   19 T  10- 9    1 Sack

Werner Stats 2014 ok...DC and linebacker coach problem,i think..look Newsome 2015

I hope for this two young guys, the new DC / LB Coach make a better job.

 

[VaAllDay757]

Cut andre johnson, trent cole, werner, and arthur jones keep the rest

[Narcosys]

17 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

gotcha.  Just for the record though, anyone who suggests we should cut Langford should have their posting privileges revoked for at least a week.

Cut him. Lol

 

Wouldn't be the first time ha!

[Crunked]

18 hours ago, SkyBane said:

There's been a lot of discussion on this recently so why not make a thread about it. I'll list players on our roster and what we save on the cap by cutting them, you guys decide whether to cut 'em or keep 'em.

 

Andre Johnson- $5 million

Trent Cole- $6.1 million

D'Qwell Jackson- $5.25 million

Arthur Jones- $2.3 million

Robert Mathis- $5 million

Kendall Langford- $3.5 million

Erik Walden- $4 million

Bjoern Werner- $1.48 million

Nate Irving- $2 million

 

Projected Salary cap- $154,997,504

Current cap room before cuts or other signings- $21,200,110

 

If I missed someone you're curious about, I'll add them to the list at request.

Andre Johnson- Cut him, lets save some dough and ride the tide with what we got

Trent Cole- zero value this would be my first cut as arm chair GM

D'Qwell Jackson-I would be drafting his replacement ASAP but keep

Arthur Jones-Based on cap savings I saw a while back, its cheaper to keep her......not enough cap savings in other words to cut him

Robert Mathis-Keep him and assign a task force to find the fountain of youth for him so he never goes away

Kendall Langford-Keep one of the few good acquisitions in free agency

Erik Walden-4 mil. a year was too much when we signed him, this year (before injury) he was finally earning it with his play, keep him

Bjoern Werner-1.48 mill is chump change in this league, might as well see if he uses the money from his contract for  the cranium from rectal cavity procedure

Nate Irving, see if he is healed enough to push Jackson and Freeman (if re-signed) for a starting spot

[ztboiler]

15 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just cant see the reasoning behind getting rid of Jackson. Is it his age? He is a great tackler and all over the field. Please enlighten me.

He is a great tackler between the tackles....but it's the all over the field part...ie. in space where he holds the ceiling of our defense rather low.

[csmopar]

16 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I just cant see the reasoning behind getting rid of Jackson. Is it his age? He is a great tackler and all over the field. Please enlighten me.

Jackson sucks in coverage. But I'm also thinking long term. I really don't think we'd loose much if we cut him,