GM options for 2016

[HungarianColtsFan]

Just now, Mr.Debonair said:

 

 

I like BPA in round one. Then go for needs with the rest

We did it last draft...Dorset was the BPA...and O-line get Luck killed. 

[SteelCityColt]

7 minutes ago, HungarianColtsFan said:

 

But we have to consider these positions first, as these have been neglected long term.

to sat they've been neglected is false. Question the scouting certainly.

[SteelCityColt]

5 minutes ago, HungarianColtsFan said:

We did it last draft...Dorset was the BPA...and O-line get Luck killed. 

 

So which O-lineman should we have drafted? It's far too simplistic to look at it like that. 

[HungarianColtsFan]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

to sat they've been neglected is false. Question the scouting certainly.

 

I'm confused about our strategy in that matter. Grigson stated earlier that O-line wasn't the right place for 'baptism in fire' then we're trying out rookie Cs, and aren't really signing FAs for any O-line position (Donald Thomas was out with injury and Cherilus was released) , meanwhile Luck has tons of weapons. 

[Mr.Debonair]

24 minutes ago, HungarianColtsFan said:

We did it last draft...Dorset was the BPA...and O-line get Luck killed. 

He wasn't 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, HungarianColtsFan said:

 

I'm confused about our strategy in that matter. Grigson stated earlier that O-line wasn't the right place for 'baptism in fire' then we're trying out rookie Cs, and aren't really signing FAs for any O-line position (Donald Thomas was out with injury and Cherilus was released) , meanwhile Luck has tons of weapons. 

 

In order... Rookies at positions on the line - it's a rule of thumb that yes Rookie lineman have a harder time adjusting (mainly due to a season of strength building needed) so saying that isn't completely out of left field. 

 

As for not really signing/drafting any O-line?

 

2012 

FAs

Mike McGlynn 

Samson Satele

AQ Shipley 

Bradley Sowell

 

Trades

Winston Justice

 

2013

Drafted

Hugh Thorton (3rd)

Khaled Holmes (4th)

 

FAs

Gosder Cherilus 

Donald Thomas 

Joe Reitz (Resigned)

Jeff Linkenbach (Resigned)

Xavier Nixon

 

2014

Drafted

Jack Mewhort (2nd)

Jonnathan Harrison (UDFA)
 

FAs

David Arkin

Lance Louis

AQ Shipley (again :P)

 

2015

Drafted

Denzelle Good (7th)

 

FAs

Todd Herremans 

 

I've tried to limit the full transaction list here to people who stuck on the roster but we can see a ramp up in line investment between 2013-2014. Bear in mind we were a team that was still "rebuilding". 

 

Point being, the positions haven't been neglected, but we don't seem very good at evaluating talent. Compounding that by reaching for positions of need in the draft to pass up true game changing talent at other positions? To that way lies madness. 

 

 

[HungarianColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

In order... Rookies at positions on the line - it's a rule of thumb that yes Rookie lineman have a harder time adjusting (mainly due to a season of strength building needed) so saying that isn't completely out of left field. 

 

As for not really signing/drafting any O-line?

 

2012 

FAs

Mike McGlynn 

Samson Satele

AQ Shipley 

Bradley Sowell

 

Trades

Winston Justice

 

2013

Drafted

Hugh Thorton (3rd)

Khaled Holmes (4th)

 

FAs

Gosder Cherilus 

Donald Thomas 

Joe Reitz (Resigned)

Jeff Linkenbach (Resigned)

Xavier Nixon

 

2014

Drafted

Jack Mewhort (2nd)

Jonnathan Harrison (UDFA)
 

FAs

David Arkin

Lance Louis

AQ Shipley (again :P)

 

2015

Drafted

Denzelle Good (7th)

 

FAs

Todd Herremans 

 

I've tried to limit the full transaction list here to people who stuck on the roster but we can see a ramp up in line investment between 2013-2014. Bear in mind we were a team that was still "rebuilding". 

 

Point being, the positions haven't been neglected, but we don't seem very good at evaluating talent. Compounding that by reaching for positions of need in the draft to pass up true game changing talent at other positions? To that way lies madness. 

 

 

 

As a contrast we drafted T.Y. Moncrief, Vick Ballard, (who could have been a weapon w/ injury), Philp Dorsett (whos showed flashes of his talent prior to his injury), signed Nicks, Bradshaw, Gore, AJ, and traded for T-Rich (who turned out as a bust in the end). Our addressing the offense is unbalanced: we have playmakers and potential game-changers (Gore, AJ, T.Y, Moncrief) at skill positions and what do we have in trenches? 

[Defjamz26]

43 minutes ago, HungarianColtsFan said:

 

As a contrast we drafted T.Y. Moncrief, Vick Ballard, (who could have been a weapon w/ injury), Philp Dorsett (whos showed flashes of his talent prior to his injury), signed Nicks, Bradshaw, Gore, AJ, and traded for T-Rich (who turned out as a bust in the end). Our addressing the offense is unbalanced: we have playmakers and potential game-changers (Gore, AJ, T.Y, Moncrief) at skill positions and what do we have in trenches? 

Nothing which is why you need a new GM. We haven't been good at evaluating OL talent. 2 of our best lineman are from the previous regime. You have to get someone that is really going to protect the QB.

[jet1968]

10 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I'm not saying hire the guy permanently but since Charlie Casserly has had success consulting on the hiring of Todd Bowles for the New York Jets bring him into INDY for thoughts on our GM vacancy & possible candidates not widely talked about that we need to put on our radar. 

 

How about Terry McDonough, VP of Player Personnel for the AZ Cardinals? Or Malik Boyd, Assist Director of Pro Scouting from the same franchise? No one can deny their success right now.  

That is probably the best suggestion. Hire someone to consult or at least help consult on who to hire as the next GM. Someone with extensive knowledge on the names that are out there

[Superman]

7 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

 You definitely can't just demote a GM and then bring up another guy. That doesn't work for so many reasons.

 

But I can't imagine a HC who would want to work with Grigson. People inside the NFL who are way smarter than us, have probably watched the situation with the Colts and are disgusted.

 

Grigson probably scares away a lot of HC candidates. Keeping him and firing Pagano would be a major disservice to the Colts.

 

The Falcons just did exactly that, demoted Dimitroff and hired another guy to help him do his job. 

[Rally5]

30 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

The Falcons just did exactly that, demoted Dimitroff and hired another guy to help him do his job. 

I don't think Dmitroff survives this season....or Pioli for that matter.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, Rally5 said:

I don't think Dmitroff survives this season....or Pioli for that matter.

 

They had a good draft and a good offseason. Their biggest problem is they hired a bad offensive coordinator.

[Jason_]

6 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

He wasn't 

 

pray tell then, who was?

[BOTT]

5 hours ago, jet1968 said:

That is probably the best suggestion. Hire someone to consult or at least help consult on who to hire as the next GM. Someone with extensive knowledge on the names that are out there

Meh. I could have told the jets to consider Todd Bowles for free.  It was no secret he was going to be a hot candidate.

[Mjølner]

8 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

He wasn't 

 

1 hour ago, Jason_S said:

 

pray tell then, who was?

 

He was. I quote Grigson, "He was higher than anybody else on our board".

Here you go - https://youtu.be/lpqeEug9-pM?t=100

[Restored]

8 hours ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

In order... Rookies at positions on the line - it's a rule of thumb that yes Rookie lineman have a harder time adjusting (mainly due to a season of strength building needed) so saying that isn't completely out of left field. 

 

As for not really signing/drafting any O-line?

 

2012 

FAs

Mike McGlynn 

Samson Satele

AQ Shipley 

Bradley Sowell

 

Trades

Winston Justice

 

2013

Drafted

Hugh Thorton (3rd)

Khaled Holmes (4th)

 

FAs

Gosder Cherilus 

Donald Thomas 

Joe Reitz (Resigned)

Jeff Linkenbach (Resigned)

Xavier Nixon

 

2014

Drafted

Jack Mewhort (2nd)

Jonnathan Harrison (UDFA)
 

FAs

David Arkin

Lance Louis

AQ Shipley (again :P)

 

2015

Drafted

Denzelle Good (7th)

 

FAs

Todd Herremans 

 

I've tried to limit the full transaction list here to people who stuck on the roster but we can see a ramp up in line investment between 2013-2014. Bear in mind we were a team that was still "rebuilding". 

 

Point being, the positions haven't been neglected, but we don't seem very good at evaluating talent. Compounding that by reaching for positions of need in the draft to pass up true game changing talent at other positions? To that way lies madness. 

 

 

 

Grigson appeared to think that by putting in pennies into the machine he'd eventually get a prized offensive linemen when he should've been playing with quarters.

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, Restored said:

 

Grigson appeared to think that by putting in pennies into the machine he'd eventually get a prized offensive linemen when he should've been playing with quarters.

 

Yes and no... he had a lot of holes to fill and a young QB to bed in. Again I argue the issue isn't one of neglect but a combination poor talent evaluation and very bad luck when it comes to injuries on the O-line. 

[Restored]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

Yes and no... he had a lot of holes to fill and a young QB to bed in. Again I argue the issue isn't one of neglect but a combination poor talent evaluation and very bad luck when it comes to injuries on the O-line. 

 

The one time he spent a high pick on an offensive linemen, it turned out fairly well (Jack Mewhort). I agree it's not an issue of neglect but Grigson seemed very frugal in his approach to the team's most glaring issue.

[BOTT]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

Yes and no... he had a lot of holes to fill and a young QB to bed in. Again I argue the issue isn't one of neglect but a combination poor talent evaluation and very bad luck when it comes to injuries on the O-line. 

Even if you count Donald Thomas and Gosder as bad luck they were questionable signings.  Gosder only had one good season in Detroit and already had a bum knee.  Thomas only had a handful of quality starts in a 4-5 yr career.

[Mr.Debonair]

2 hours ago, Jason_S said:

 

pray tell then, who was?

According to Grigson, he may have been but he wasn't the BPA.

 

Darby,Kendricks, Anthony

 

[Mjølner]

25 minutes ago, Mr.Debonair said:

According to Grigson, he may have been but he wasn't the BPA.

 

Darby,Kendricks, Anthony

 

Did you simply ignore my reply to you earlier on here, or?

As for your evaluation of who was the BPA at the time, it very much seems like you're operating with a very strong hindsight bias..

[Rally5]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

They had a good draft and a good offseason. Their biggest problem is they hired a bad offensive coordinator.

That's for sure (OC).  Their first rounder has significantly under-performed and the roster is swiss cheese. Their O and D Line is sub-standard and they only have a couple playmakers.  Frankly, he was out last year and it was a bit of a miracle he survived.  That roster makes me very thankful for ours!  If he makes it through this season and that roster he might have compromising photos of Arthur Blank.  In the end, we have our own problems .....

[Mr.Debonair]

13 minutes ago, Mjølner said:

Did you simply ignore my reply to you earlier on here, or?

As for your evaluation of who was the BPA at the time, it very much seems like you're operating with a very strong hindsight bias..

I may have missed what you said. All I saw was what you posted of Grigson at the press confrence. I'm a hurricanes fan, I've watched Dorsett a lot. Never thought he should be a 1st round pick. He's not a #1 WR. Only #1 WR should be drafted in the first round. 

 

There is no hindsight here, you're speaking as if I went down to the 83rd pick and said we should have taken player X instead. 

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, Rally5 said:

That's for sure (OC).  Their first rounder has significantly under-performed and the roster is swiss cheese. Their O and D Line is sub-standard and they only have a couple playmakers.  Frankly, he was out last year and it was a bit of a miracle he survived.  That roster makes me very thankful for ours!  If he makes it through this season and that roster he might have compromising photos of Arthur Blank.  In the end, we have our own problems .....

 

Their first rounder is fine. Talk to me about that pick in a year or two. He was a good pick, and they got good value later in that draft. The roster was swiss cheese already, especially on the lines, that's the reason Dimitroff was demoted. They decided to embark on a draft-based building project, and that's off to a decent start. To abandon course now seems hasty. 

[Rally5]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Their first rounder is fine. Talk to me about that pick in a year or two. He was a good pick, and they got good value later in that draft. The roster was swiss cheese already, especially on the lines, that's the reason Dimitroff was demoted. They decided to embark on a draft-based building project, and that's off to a decent start. To abandon course now seems hasty. 

We agree I think.  He needs a lot of technique work as he mainly relied on athleticism and speed in college.  I didn't call him a bust.  I would say abandoning Dmitroff and abandoning the strategy aren't necessarily congruent in my book.  In fact, DQ has a ton of input on personnel decisions as well and much of the new strategy is something he insisted on...not Dmitroff.  Again, not my problem in the end.  Good Chat!

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, Rally5 said:

I would say abandoning Dmitroff and abandoning the strategy aren't necessarily congruent in my book. 

 

That's true. 

 

I guess my point is just that they put this strategy in place a year ago, and IMO, it's headed in the right direction. They had cause to fire Dimitroff last year, and chose not to. I don't see them having more cause to fire him now. I said earlier, they hired a bad OC. They were good enough to start out 5-0, but not good enough to hang on. They definitely need some trench players, as bad as we do.

[Jason_]

2 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

According to Grigson, he may have been but he wasn't the BPA.

 

Darby,Kendricks, Anthony

 

 

And you're basing this on how many hours of scouting? How many do you have on your scouting staff?

[Superman]

Add Duke Tobin to the list, IMO. He's the Bengals Director of Player Personnel, basically in charge of scouting for the draft and for current pro players. He bridges the gap between Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown, and is technically third in the organization behind those two in terms of player acquisition. They've had good drafts and have built a strong roster around a B level quarterback. Lots of Bengals media think he should take over as GM, pushing Mike Brown out of the personnel business entirely. Lewis has credited him as basically being the man behind the curtain.

 

And yes, he's Bill Tobin's son. Coming from a bloodline that dislikes Mel Kiper gives him a boost in my book. He was also a Colts scout in the '90s.

 

http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/columnists/paul-daugherty/2014/08/30/paul-daugherty-cincinnati-bengals-duke-tobin/14875923/

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Homegrown/f11a092d-a8ab-49b5-98ff-865a04226548?campaign=cin:fanshare:twitter

http://www.cincyjungle.com/the-chronicle/2014/12/27/7453539/bengals-need-to-promote-duke-tobin-to-general-manager

[Mjølner]

2 hours ago, Mr.Debonair said:

I may have missed what you said. All I saw was what you posted of Grigson at the press confrence. I'm a hurricanes fan, I've watched Dorsett a lot. Never thought he should be a 1st round pick. He's not a #1 WR. Only #1 WR should be drafted in the first round. 

 

There is no hindsight here, you're speaking as if I went down to the 83rd pick and said we should have taken player X instead. 

Well, let me repeat myself, and Grigson that I quoted on it then. Dorsett was their highest rated player on their board. Aka BPA. In opposition of you saying he wasn't.

As for the hindsight part, I'm really not sure what you mean by "You're speaking as if I went down to the 83rd pick and said we should have taken player X instead".

When I say it seems like you're operating with a strong hindsight bias, that's because all of the three players you list there have turned out better than expected, especially in regards to when they were drafted. At the time, they weren't as well regarded as they are now (This is the hindsight part). It therefore seems as if you're letting your impression of them now reflect your opinions at the time.

Of course, it's not necessarily hindsight. If those three were your top three picks when we were on the clock last year, then props to you. That would be very impressive. Perhaps you even have a post of some sorts at an earlier time saying so?

[Mjølner]

12 minutes ago, Superman said:

Add Duke Tobin to the list, IMO. He's the Bengals Director of Player Personnel, basically in charge of scouting for the draft and for current pro players. He bridges the gap between Marvin Lewis and Mike Brown, and is technically third in the organization behind those two in terms of player acquisition. They've had good drafts and have built a strong roster around a B level quarterback. Lots of Bengals media think he should take over as GM, pushing Mike Brown out of the personnel business entirely. Lewis has credited him as basically being the man behind the curtain.

 

And yes, he's Bill Tobin's son. Coming from a bloodline that dislikes Mel Kiper gives him a boost in my book. He was also a Colts scout in the '90s.

Do you know of a good place where I can read up on the different roles the different positions have within the organisation? For example the Director of Player Personnel as you mention here. If not, perhaps you'd be willing to list some of the other important positions so I could google them individually? Would be greatly appreciated. 

[Btown_Colt]

Quote

 

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2015/11/12_potential_general_manager_c.html

 

Here is a list of some potential GM's along with a little bit of reading information on each one. Some of the names have already been mentioned. One that hasn't that I like is 33 year old Eliot Wolf. He is the son of retired and hall of fame GM Ron Wolf.

[jet1968]

4 hours ago, BOTT said:

Meh. I could have told the jets to consider Todd Bowles for free.  It was no secret he was going to be a hot candidate.

Huh? What does Todd Bowles have to do with Irsay's consideration on whom to be Colts GM?

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, Mjølner said:

Do you know of a good place where I can read up on the different roles the different positions have within the organisation? For example the Director of Player Personnel as you mention here. If not, perhaps you'd be willing to list some of the other important positions so I could google them individually? Would be greatly appreciated. 

 

Every team has a different structure and different positions, with different levels of authority to those positions.

 

The Colts have Irsay as the owner and CEO, and his daughters are "Vice Chair/Owner". As a sort of hands-on owner, he has a say in big picture decisions, coaching decisions, high draft picks, contract extensions, etc., but also defers to the people he has hired.

 

As far as player personnel is considered, #2 is Ryan Grigson, who is the GM. (But before 2012, it was Bill Polian,, who was Vice Chairman and President of Football Operations, and then Chris Polian, who was GM. So one organization might be structured differently at different times.) He's in charge of player personnel (draft, free agency, contracts) and oversees the coaching staff. Beneath him is Jimmy Raye, VP of Football Operations, who is essentially Grigson's second in command. He helps Grigson identify players in free agency, set up his draft board, keep track of player movement and contract statuses, etc. Mike Bluem is Director of Football Administration, and among other compliance issues, he's the cap guru (and a pretty good one, IMO). 

 

Then there's TJ McCreight, Director of College Scouting (oversee college scouting), and Kevin Rogers, Director of Pro Personnel (keeps track of current pro players, including scouting potential free agents, waived players, trade targets, etc.). They help Grigson and Raye. And then there's a bunch of other scouting personnel. 

 

Separate from the personnel staff, in the Colts case, is the coaching staff. They watch film and scout some, especially Pagano, but the personnel staff does most of that. It seems to me that Pagano has only a limited amount of say in player acquisition, and maybe retention. Sure, he has a voice, but probably not as big a voice as a head coach would like. .

 

This is all just my take on the Colts structure and duties, but it's based on what I've heard and read over the years. I would suggest that you browse the personnel page for a bunch of pro teams, and you'll kind of see how they structure their staff. Anyone who is a director of personnel (player personnel, pro personnel, college scouting) is probably close to being a decision maker and eventually will be a GM candidate, unless they are bad at their job and their team is having bad drafts or bad free agent signings.

 

The Colts don't have a Director of Player Personnel, which is Duke Tobin's title for the Bengals. He's basically the de facto GM, just doesn't have as strong a title. The Broncos have Elway as the GM and Executive VP of Football Operations, but they also have Matt Russell as Director of Player Personnel. I guess it could be called the Assistant GM, but in Tobin's case, he's doing most of the GM work while the owner keeps the title.

 

Assuming Grigson goes, I think Raye, McCreight and Rogers should go with him, and the new GM should bring in his own lieutenants. 

[VaAllDay757]

On Tuesday, December 22, 2015 at 8:12 PM, BOTT said:

Rick Venturi sounds like a genius on the radio, but his resume says otherwise.

What's funny he would coach this team much better than chuck because he actually comes with the RIGHT gameplan on his segments sunday morning

 

16 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

Venturi is 3-48-1 as a head coach. He may be a legit contender for worst head coach of all time in any sport.

You can only do so much with a trash team....he atleast analyze what the other team can do if it's run heavy team keep the blitz coming chuck does the complete opposite 

[Colts_Fan12]

Irsay will prolly keep the * we got now 

[jimmy g]

1 hour ago, VaAllDay757 said:

What's funny he would coach this team much better than chuck because he actually comes with the RIGHT gameplan on his segments sunday morning

 

You can only do so much with a trash team....he atleast analyze what the other team can do if it's run heavy team keep the blitz coming chuck does the complete opposite 

He's not been a head coach for about 10 years. If he was better than his record, someone would've hired him in that time.

[jimmy g]

23 hours ago, Superman said:

.Looks like Pagano and his staff will be gone, but that doesn't mean everything is going to get scrapped.

Please don't say we're keeping Pep's  Playbook (again)!?!?

[VaAllDay757]

3 hours ago, jimmy g said:

He's not been a head coach for about 10 years. If he was better than his record, someone would've hired him in that time.

So just based off a record chuck is a pretty good coach?

[Carlos Danger]

I like this thread, mostly because I'm not super familiar with a lot of the names being mentioned. I've wondered when somebody was going to make a GM thread.

 

I do think it's likely that Grigson returns, despite his spotty draft and FA record as GM. I'm not saying that I think he should be back, but he is young and has managed contracts and the cap very well. That is, after you concede the fact that many of his FA signings shouldn't have been offered a contract to begin with. I believe that there is at least a remote possibility that he is learning from his mistakes and can improve in the roster-building function of his job. I have doubts as to whether any attainable measure of improvement will be good enough, though.

 

If we do make a change, it will be interesting to see how the search for a HC affects the GM discussion. It will be impossible to attract some of the HC candidates that I've seen mentioned on the forum if Irsay wants to keep Grigs around. The most pedigreed candidates will want to act as GM themselves or will, at least, want to choose what GM they work with. 

 

I would have to assume that Indy would be a dream job for a potential GM. We already have a QB. The owner is always willing to spend on roster improvements. The media is easier to deal with in Indy than in larger markets and we are in pretty good cap shape, despite Luck's looming extension and the old players on defense. 

 

 

 

 

[Mjølner]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Every team has a different structure and different positions, with different levels of authority to those positions.

 

The Colts have Irsay as the owner and CEO, and his daughters are "Vice Chair/Owner". As a sort of hands-on owner, he has a say in big picture decisions, coaching decisions, high draft picks, contract extensions, etc., but also defers to the people he has hired.

 

As far as player personnel is considered, #2 is Ryan Grigson, who is the GM. (But before 2012, it was Bill Polian,, who was Vice Chairman and President of Football Operations, and then Chris Polian, who was GM. So one organization might be structured differently at different times.) He's in charge of player personnel (draft, free agency, contracts) and oversees the coaching staff. Beneath him is Jimmy Raye, VP of Football Operations, who is essentially Grigson's second in command. He helps Grigson identify players in free agency, set up his draft board, keep track of player movement and contract statuses, etc. Mike Bluem is Director of Football Administration, and among other compliance issues, he's the cap guru (and a pretty good one, IMO). 

 

Then there's TJ McCreight, Director of College Scouting (oversee college scouting), and Kevin Rogers, Director of Pro Personnel (keeps track of current pro players, including scouting potential free agents, waived players, trade targets, etc.). They help Grigson and Raye. And then there's a bunch of other scouting personnel. 

 

Separate from the personnel staff, in the Colts case, is the coaching staff. They watch film and scout some, especially Pagano, but the personnel staff does most of that. It seems to me that Pagano has only a limited amount of say in player acquisition, and maybe retention. Sure, he has a voice, but probably not as big a voice as a head coach would like. .

 

This is all just my take on the Colts structure and duties, but it's based on what I've heard and read over the years. I would suggest that you browse the personnel page for a bunch of pro teams, and you'll kind of see how they structure their staff. Anyone who is a director of personnel (player personnel, pro personnel, college scouting) is probably close to being a decision maker and eventually will be a GM candidate, unless they are bad at their job and their team is having bad drafts or bad free agent signings.

 

The Colts don't have a Director of Player Personnel, which is Duke Tobin's title for the Bengals. He's basically the de facto GM, just doesn't have as strong a title. The Broncos have Elway as the GM and Executive VP of Football Operations, but they also have Matt Russell as Director of Player Personnel. I guess it could be called the Assistant GM, but in Tobin's case, he's doing most of the GM work while the owner keeps the title.

 

Assuming Grigson goes, I think Raye, McCreight and Rogers should go with him, and the new GM should bring in his own lieutenants. 

Terrific! This was of great help. Thank you very much.