Kravitz: "growing Disconnect Between Ryan Grigson And Chuck Pagano"

[HungarianColtsFan]

I haven't seen this posted, but Kravitz has an other column about Pagano, and his job security:

 

http://www.wthr.com/story/29933953/kravitz-is-paganos-job-on-the-line-theres-a-very-good-chance-it-is

 

Weather he knows something/has some inside info, or...

[amfootball]

Well, according to this article, Nick Saban. Yeah, no thanks, I'll stick with Pagano.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/02/could-saban-return-to-the-nfl/

Yeah. I am not a fan of Saban. He already had a go around in the NFL ...

[CR91]

Well I don't follow the chefs so I don't know the circumstances.

 

youre missing the point. good teams can lose to bad teams. it happens all the time.

[OffensivelyPC]

Show of hands, who doesn't have disagreements with the people they work with on occasion?  

[SteelCityColt]

Show of hands, who doesn't have disagreements with the people they work with on occasion?  

 

I disagree with myself enough let alone other people...isn't that right other Barry?

[John Waylon]

Saban?

I highly doubt it.

I think there might be some Harbaugh lust in our front office though.

The connections are obviously all there.

If we find ourselves looking at a new coach, for whatever reason, that is where I'd be putting a large portion of my chips.

[aaron11]

Yes because we need to get past them to win the SB

they are just one game on the schedule.  it far from a guarantee that we will meet in the playoffs

[NewColtsFan]

Yeah. I am not a fan of Saban. He already had a go around in the NFL ...

 

So did Pete Carroll.      In fact, he got two before he worked out in Seattle.      How has that worked for him?

 

And so has Bill Bellicheck.      He had a dance in Cleveland.     Hey,  whatever became of him?

[Jason_]

I disagree with myself enough let alone other people...isn't that right other Barry?

 

That's right, other Barry!

 

[NewColtsFan]

 A Home game, Seattle pounded us that day, a miracle TY got behind them twice for TD`s.

 A Home game,  Mathis beat their BACKUP LT for a strip sack, Manning was Emotional and started slow, then he kicked our butt. Lawrence Guy blocked a kick for a returned TD as i recall. Then we released him.  A Lucky win.

 SF, on the road, didn`t show up, they suffered 3 major injuries the week before we played them. No receiving core and no NT. LINK even looked good as a run blocker. !

 KC was ahead about 30 and then had major injuries on D. A Goofy Lucky win.

 

 2014

Lost to Denver 31-24

Lost to Eagles at home 30-27

Lost to Pittsburg 51-34

Lost to NE at home 42-24

Lost to Dallas 42-7

 

 2 wins at HOME against decent teams Ravens, Bengals and the rest of the wins against bla!

 Both these guys are surely on the bubble.

 Lots of young guys they are grooming must show improvement, they Require experience, so where we are come Playoff time is how they all should be evaluated.

 Go Colts!

 

 

Just out of curiosity......     are you even a fan of this team?

 

No one can tell by the way you post.......

[amfootball]

So did Pete Carroll.      In fact, he got two before he worked out in Seattle.      How has that worked for him?

 

And so has Bill Bellicheck.      He had a dance in Cleveland.     Hey,  whatever became of him?

You really love Pete Carroll, huh? Second time you have used him or his team in a discussion ...

[SteelCityColt]

You really love Pete Carroll, huh? Second time you have used him or his team in a discussion ...

I'm fairly sure there's not a forum rule about repetition or you'd have smashed it with Brady-o-Rama.

Carroll and the rest of the Seahawks are going to come up in a lot of comparisons on here for various reasons.

[amfootball]

I'm fairly sure there's not a forum rule about repetition or you'd have smashed it with Brady-o-Rama.

Carroll and the rest of the Seahawks are going to come up in a lot of comparisons on here for various reasons.

That's fine but Carroll's story is also a bit of an anomaly as well in terms of his resume and unconventional way he has built his team in Seattle. In other words, I would be weary of using his team as any type of a benchmark for another's team future success ...

[NewColtsFan]

You really love Pete Carroll, huh? Second time you have used him or his team in a discussion ...

 

I only use him when he works as an example.    I have no special love for him.

 

But he's turned into a tremendous NFL coach.    (That one legendary massive brain cramp the one notable exception)

[drrobert6]

It's unfortunate Grigson is not tied to a one year deal like Pagano. They both have made mistakes clearly. There have been questionable play calls from Pagano's side, but Grigson's picks in the draft haven't been all home runs either. We could have probably done without Dorsett in the draft this year. I understand he's a playmaker, but don't we have enough on the offense side this year without him? He's here now and I hope he delivers, but it will be hard for Dorsett to make plays if Luck is on his back or injured. Since 2012 we've give up 24, 43, 44 & 45 points in playoff games and I'm sure the 10 points Cin scored & 13 Denver put up on us last season would have been higher without injuries to their teams. Our defense could have used some serious picks in this years draft. 

[Superman]

It's unfortunate Grigson is not tied to a one year deal like Pagano. They both have made mistakes clearly. There have been questionable play calls from Pagano's side, but Grigson's picks in the draft haven't been all home runs either. We could have probably done without Dorsett in the draft this year. I understand he's a playmaker, but don't we have enough on the offense side this year without him? He's here now and I hope he delivers, but it will be hard for Dorsett to make plays if Luck is on his back or injured. Since 2012 we've give up 24, 43, 44 & 45 points in playoff games and I'm sure the 10 points Cin scored & 13 Denver put up on us last season would have been higher without injuries to their teams. Our defense could have used some serious picks in this years draft. 

 

I've seen reports that the Colts have an option for Grigson's fifth year. 

[drrobert6]

I've seen reports that the Colts have an option for Grigson's fifth year. 

 

Too long, they should be tying Grigson & Pagano together. If it turns out this is Grigson mess and he doesn't want to let the coach pick the players he needs rather than a shiny new receiver, it will be the new coach who has to deal with Grigson's mess. I know we don't know who really pulled the trigger on Richardson or Josh Cribbs, but those 2 player pickups should be a major sticking point if I was Jim Irsay. 

[Superman]

Too long, they should be tying Grigson & Pagano together. If it turns out this is Grigson mess and he doesn't want to let the coach pick the players he needs rather than a shiny new receiver, it will be the new coach who has to deal with Grigson's mess. I know we don't know who really pulled the trigger on Richardson or Josh Cribbs, but those 2 player pickups should be a major sticking point if I was Jim Irsay. 

 

If the Colts have an option on Grigson's fifth year, then essentially his contract is in line with Pagano's. It's four years -- like Pagano's -- with an option for an extra year.

 

I'm sure Irsay was on board with Richardson. No one expected him to be a bum. It's really mind boggling how he has turned out. I don't like a first rounder for a RB regardless, but let's stop acting like everyone could see that Richardson's career was going to be a complete disaster. To the contrary, people expected him to be special.

 

I don't know what you're saying about Cribbs. Low level midseason addition who actually played pretty well for us for several weeks, until he started making stupid mistakes. That kind of personnel decision is NEVER a sticking point. It's mostly inconsequential, in the grand scheme of things.

[drrobert6]

If the Colts have an option on Grigson's fifth year, then essentially his contract is in line with Pagano's. It's four years -- like Pagano's -- with an option for an extra year.

 

I'm sure Irsay was on board with Richardson. No one expected him to be a bum. It's really mind boggling how he has turned out. I don't like a first rounder for a RB regardless, but let's stop acting like everyone could see that Richardson's career was going to be a complete disaster. To the contrary, people expected him to be special.

 

I don't know what you're saying about Cribbs. Low level midseason addition who actually played pretty well for us for several weeks, until he started making stupid mistakes. That kind of personnel decision is NEVER a sticking point. It's mostly inconsequential, in the grand scheme of things.

 

Ok, I thought Pagano was coming up on his contract after this season, that's good to know they are a little closer than I thought. 

 

As for Richardson, I just don't know how scouts couldn't see that this guy cannot pick the holes. As fans we've all seen one bad decision after another and it continues with Oakland today. He just doesn't have it. I wonder if they just watched the Alabama footage as their source and thought with Luck throwing the ball as he does that they could work with Trent to be the back we all hoped he would be.

 

Cribbs, I put that more on Pagano. He might have a had a few decent run backs, but he made major mistakes trying to hit a home run rather than just returning the kick off for a few yards or calling for a fair catch. So while Grigson might have made the pickup, Pagano kept him in there far too long in my opinion. I just didn't see that from anyone else on the club when they handled the ball. Cribbs made me scream at the TV every time he touched the ball. Personally I'm glad to see him gone.

[DougDew]

Too long, they should be tying Grigson & Pagano together. If it turns out this is Grigson mess and he doesn't want to let the coach pick the players he needs rather than a shiny new receiver, it will be the new coach who has to deal with Grigson's mess. I know we don't know who really pulled the trigger on Richardson or Josh Cribbs, but those 2 player pickups should be a major sticking point if I was Jim Irsay. 

Cribbs over Whalen last year was a joke, both in terms of WR and returner.  Don't know who made that decision (sometimes the coach persuades the GM) but either could be upset over the other for that one.  (And who was the KR /WR before Cribbs...ex Raven...who stunk but stayed on the roster forever?) 

 

The decision making with Whalen seems similar to the AQ Shipley cycles.

 

Trent Richardson at least was consistent with how both Grigs and Pags say they want to build a team......,power running.  They likely were both on board with that trade..... and both whiffed.  They were likely both on board with the Werner pick too.

[austriancolt]

I say part way with Grigson. Another year with an average Offensive Line at best is a joke. We are again facing the same problems we had over the last years and he has done nothing to change that. 

[Superman]

Ok, I thought Pagano was coming up on his contract after this season, that's good to know they are a little closer than I thought. 

 

As for Richardson, I just don't know how scouts couldn't see that this guy cannot pick the holes. As fans we've all seen one bad decision after another and it continues with Oakland today. He just doesn't have it. I wonder if they just watched the Alabama footage as their source and thought with Luck throwing the ball as he does that they could work with Trent to be the back we all hoped he would be.

 

Cribbs, I put that more on Pagano. He might have a had a few decent run backs, but he made major mistakes trying to hit a home run rather than just returning the kick off for a few yards or calling for a fair catch. So while Grigson might have made the pickup, Pagano kept him in there far too long in my opinion. I just didn't see that from anyone else on the club when they handled the ball. Cribbs made me scream at the TV every time he touched the ball. Personally I'm glad to see him gone.

 

Pagano's contract is up after this season. This is Year 4.

 

I don't want to hear about Richardson. Everyone, with almost no exception, expected him to be special. I don't buy this 'I don't know how scouts couldn't see' stuff. Bad draft pick, bad trade, bad signing by Oakland, bad player, one of the biggest draft busts of all time. And three years ago, NO ONE knew that would be the case. You included.

 

Cribbs was fine. No one remembers how awful Whalen was in the return game. He gave us nothing as a returner. His value was in securing possession, and over time, he started making dumb decisions in kick and punt returns, so his benefit was undermined anyways. Cribbs was better, by a great deal, and his first few games he showed that clearly. After that, he got sloppy. And again, this is a rather inconsequential move that no one is spending time thinking or talking about inside Colts headquarters. 

[DougDew]

Pagano's contract is up after this season. This is Year 4.

 

I don't want to hear about Richardson. Everyone, with almost no exception, expected him to be special. I don't buy this 'I don't know how scouts couldn't see' stuff. Bad draft pick, bad trade, bad signing by Oakland, bad player, one of the biggest draft busts of all time. And three years ago, NO ONE knew that would be the case. You included.

 

Cribbs was fine. No one remembers how awful Whalen was in the return game. He gave us nothing as a returner. His value was in securing possession, and over time, he started making dumb decisions in kick and punt returns, so his benefit was undermined anyways. Cribbs was better, by a great deal, and his first few games he showed that clearly. After that, he got sloppy. And again, this is a rather inconsequential move that no one is spending time thinking or talking about inside Colts headquarters.

Whalen wasn't awful, but he has no speed or explosion to be a returner. He still got about 7 more yards on KOs than did Cribbs, because Whalen would take a touchback and Cribbs would run almost everything out, even from 8 yards deep.

(I'd like to see the stats on how many touchbacks Cribbs took last year)

And Griff gave some reliability as WR whereas Cribbs did nothing.

I agree, its not that consequential of a decision to cause a rift between a coach and a GM by itself, but KR/PR does get a lot of touches during a game, so who gets that position does matter.

Disagreement over draft picks or relying upon the other's inaccurate analysis of a major player is what Kravitz is likely stirring.

[Superman]

Whalen wasn't awful, but he has no speed or explosion to be a returner. He still got about 7 more yards on KOs than did Cribbs, because Whalen would take a touchback and Cribbs would run almost everything out, even from 8 yards deep.

(I'd like to see the stats on how many touchbacks Cribbs took last year)

And Griff gave some reliability as WR whereas Cribbs did nothing.

I agree, its not that consequential of a decision to cause a rift between a coach and a GM by itself, but KR/PR does get a lot of touches during a game, so who gets that position does matter.

Disagreement over draft picks or relying upon the other's inaccurate analysis of a major player is what Kravitz is likely stirring.

 

Cribbs was brought in as a return man, not a receiver. He was much better as a returner than Whalen. 

[DougDew]

Cribbs was brought in as a return man, not a receiver. He was much better as a returner than Whalen.

Perhaps my memory of roster churning has faded, but I believe Whalen was on the PS when Cribbs was rostered. My major point about Griff vs Cribbs earning a roster spot is that Whalen gave a reliable option at WR, and with the Nicks and Wayne situations last year, he could have been useful at WR in some games. (Which brings up another decision of playing Nicks over Whalen). I would call both Cribbs and Whalen equal as a returner but for different reasons, and neither are what you really want.

[Superman]

Perhaps my memory of roster churning has faded, but I believe Whalen was on the PS when Cribbs was rostered. My major point about Griff vs Cribbs earning a roster spot is that Whalen gave a reliable option at WR, and with the Nicks and Wayne situations last year, he could have been useful at WR in some games. (Which brings up another decision of playing Nicks over Whalen). I would call both Cribbs and Whalen equal as a returner but for different reasons, and neither are what you really want.

 

Whalen was the primary returner prior to the regular season Patriots game. In the Patriots game, with Whalen still on the roster, they used Boom as the returner. After that game, they signed Cribbs. A couple days later, they waived Whalen and brought up Tipton (with Bradshaw going to IR). 

 

I agree, neither Whalen nor Cribbs are ideal returners. But Cribbs has ability, and if he makes good decisions, he's fine. He decided to try to make plays when they weren't there to be made, and it cost him. 

[bap1331]

I'm starting to think kravitz is paid by the patriots to cause a stir in the colts organization. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Jason_]

That's fine but Carroll's story is also a bit of an anomaly as well in terms of his resume and unconventional way he has built his team in Seattle. In other words, I would be weary of using his team as any type of a benchmark for another's team future success ...

 

The point was, several coaches have unsuccessful first stints as a HC but then go on to have a successful career as a HC with a different team.  Much like your Bill B.  So just because Saban had an unsuccessful stint already in the NFL does not mean he could not have a successful one in the future.

[DougDew]

Whalen was the primary returner prior to the regular season Patriots game. In the Patriots game, with Whalen still on the roster, they used Boom as the returner. After that game, they signed Cribbs. A couple days later, they waived Whalen and brought up Tipton (with Bradshaw going to IR).

Thanks for the info.

So after the Bradshaw injury, the WRs were TY, Reggie, Nicks, Moncrief, and Cribbs. Yikes! I know you agree that the WRs not getting open was a problem in the AFCCG, but Wayne and Nicks had that problem all year long (post Wayne elbow injury).

Perhaps either Grigs or Pags didn't notice and the other one did. Not that Griff would've been a great solution.

[amfootball]

The point was, several coaches have unsuccessful first stints as a HC but then go on to have a successful career as a HC with a different team.  Much like your Bill B.  So just because Saban had an unsuccessful stint already in the NFL does not mean he could not have a successful one in the future.

I was not implying that he would be a failure the second time around but that I don't like him as a coach for many reasons. Does not mean he may not be successful if he decides he wants a second go round and a team in the NFL gives him that shot.

[Superman]

Thanks for the info.

So after the Bradshaw injury, the WRs were TY, Reggie, Nicks, Moncrief, and Cribbs. Yikes! I know you agree that the WRs not getting open was a problem in the AFCCG, but Wayne and Nicks had that problem all year long (post Wayne elbow injury).

Perhaps either Grigs or Pags didn't notice and the other one did. Not that Griff would've been a great solution.

 

Yeah, Nicks and Wayne never got going like we hoped they would. Even going into the playoffs, there was this talk that Nicks would somehow come alive and be more productive. He had the big play against the Bengals, but that was it. Moncrief wasn't ready.

 

They should have moved Hilton more in the AFCCG, motion, stacks, etc. They were hoping the high/low that worked against the Bengals and Broncos would work, but the checkdowns weren't as open, and the Pats tackled exceptionally well (one missed tackle all game, per PFF; we missed 12). One of those high/low plays got picked off by Revis, who saw it coming, baited it, and made the play. That guy is really freaking good.

 

I agree, Griff was not the droid we were looking for. I don't know if he would have been better than Nicks and/or Wayne, but it would have been hard for him to be worse.

[Superman]

I'm starting to think kravitz is paid by the patriots to cause a stir in the colts organization. He's a wolf in sheep's clothing.

 

Someone else called him a pot stirrer, and they were right. He's been doing this for many years. His nemesis, Polian, is gone. He has to be more creative.

[Jason_]

Yeah. I am not a fan of Saban. He already had a go around in the NFL ...

So then what was the point of the "he already had a go around in the nfl" comment?

[amfootball]

So then what was the point of the "he already had a go around in the nfl" comment?

His stint in the NFL is part of why I don't like him as a coach.

[Jason_]

His stint in the NFL is part of why I don't like him as a coach.

Ah ok. So you just worded that post very poorly. Makes more sense now.

[amfootball]

Ah ok. So you just worded that post very poorly. Makes more sense now.

If you think so. Sure.

[Jason_]

If you think so. Sure.

Of course, because I was obviously the only one who misinterpreted it.

/sarcasm

[superrep1967]

"Fear is still a healthy motivator" Not sure what he's implying here. Fear of losing your job is the motivator, not of a coach yelling at you.

Saying that Pagano would play a guy who's not performing is ridiculous. He's been a coach forever, the guys playing for him are professionals, not college or high school players.

Maybe if Grigson gave him some better ingredients, he'd cook a better meal?

Anyway, this is all a bunch of hooey if the Colts win.

I love the comment about the ingredients for the meal. Irsay can't put all the blame on Pagano for the defense failures. Like you said Grigs supplies the ingredients to the neal.But it always seems head coaches get the blame for everything and I believe sometimes unfairly.

[superrep1967]

If one eventually has to go, I choose Chuck. In this division, with this QB and receiving options, practically any top flight coach could step in and win 12 games. Yet every year, it seems to take Chuck and Pep a few losses to be forced into using them properly. You've spent all of this money on TY and Johnson, all of these high draft picks on WRs and TEs, yet I fear Chuck will once again head to Buffalo and try to grind out the game, playing right into Rex's hands.

When you win the lottery and land a QB like Luck or Rodgers, you don't play like the Jets or Bills.

Rex Ryan is a joke. He's done nothing as a coach and everybody wants to put him in the hall of fame. The Colts will destroy Buffalo.

[superrep1967]

we dont know whos decisions those were [/quote

It's on Grigs regradless he makes the final decision on pesonnel.