NFL/Patriots Deflategate compromise UPDATE: Pats will not appeal

[dynasty13]

Oh he did?  I must have missed that.  Was he fined?  suspended?  Did he take balls into the bathroom too?

 

I was responding to this post below...where the poster made the case that doing what he did is still cheating.

 

But it's the intent of why they got to the refs under inflated is the point. If you knowingly send it under/over inflated in hopes the refs miss it. It's still cheating.

Your thought process isn't just grey, it's wrong. Let me commit a crime and if they don't catch me, it's their fault not mine... are you serious?

 

No he did not take the balls into the bathroom, but he DID admit to trying to over inflate footballs in hopes that the ref's would miss it and pass them through. So where is the consistency of how the NFL views compromising the integrity of the game?

[pgt_rob]

Well then Aaron Rodgers cheated too. Where's that outrage?

 

There's a difference between Aaron Rodgers saying he prefers the football overinflated than actually playing an actual game with it overinflated.

[ColtRider]

I understand everyone's comments about because the Patriots didn't admit anything and went on this charade that's why it blew up, but like your last sentence, my only question is why, if it truly truly truly is about the integrity of the game, is there little to no concern over Rodgers comments about what he does with the balls?

There just seems to be this disconnect about whether or not people really are upset about the integrity of the game being compromised, or if that is just a talking point because the anger is legit coming just from the way the situation was handled by the Patriots..because the lack of consistency between how the league and therefor the fans look at situations that any reasonable person would agree also compromise the integrity of the game is a bit odd to me and I find it a bit disingenuous.

Man, oh, man dynasty13! I have read your last 4-5 posts and have come to a conclusion that ... Well(s) ... you really don't get why your team was fined, docked draft picks, and had your QB sacked for a loss of 4 games. If you think this whole mess is just about "air pressure" and not cheating, lying, and trying to cover-up .... Well(s) ... I feel sorry for you.

Good-googli-moogli !

[dynasty13]

They had to act in a fraudulent and covert manner to get the balls to below the threshold, now didn't they?  You're trying to draw a line between the lie and the air pressure and it's just not possible.

 

Of course I am...the air pressure issue is what affects the integrity of the game...the lie itself has nothing to do with the game. If you want to go to town on the integrity of the people who lied, then by all means, but the game itself would only be affected by the action of deflating the footballs, not the way the team tried to explain it. That is just a means to the end...but then end is what compromises the integrity of the game.

[dynasty13]

There's a difference between Aaron Rodgers saying he prefers the football overinflated than actually playing an actual game with it overinflated.

 

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

[Bad Morty]

Brett Favre - refuses to turn over phone to NFL in investigation of his 'sexting' scandal...penalty = $50K

 

Tom Brady - refuse to turn over phone to Wells...penalty: 4 game suspension

 

The inconsistency and hypocrisy of this league is astonishing. This penalty would be the equivalent to the NBA suspending Michael Jordan for a quarter of a season because of some minor rules infraction.

[OffensivelyPC]

I was responding to this post below...where the poster made the case that doing what he did is still cheating.

 

 

 

No he did not take the balls into the bathroom, but he DID admit to trying to over inflate footballs in hopes that the ref's would miss it and pass them through. So where is the consistency of how the NFL views compromising the integrity of the game?

Then I disagree.  Attempting to cheat is one thing.  Guys hold hoping to not get caught.  You expect some cheating.   If the officials miss it while following protocol and nothing is being done in an attempt to circumvent said rules, then I don't have a problem with that.  So in this case, Aaron sending over inflated balls to the refs isn't that big a deal, because he's putting it out there for everyone to see.  He's not trying to conceal it, but if they miss it, that's on the refs.  Which, by the way, Aaron Rodgers said the officials deflate the footballs before "every" game.  So he hasn't gotten away with it as far as anyone of us on here knows.  This is the same sort of thing the Vikes and Panthers did.  They did it out in the open, they got cuaght and stopped.  The league was notified and they addressed it.  

 

What the Patriots did was different from everyone else who's brough up anything in this case when it comes to ball tampering.  The reason for their big punishment.  They concealed their attempts from the Referees.That's why this is different.  That's why this is an integrity issue and not just an air pressure issue.  It's why people are talking asterisks, tainted, blah blah blah.  The lengths they went to for some air pressure speaks to the sort of advantage they thought it was worth.  Quantifiable or not, it was apparently worth avoiding detection and that's why Brady is drawing the criticism that you so disagree with.

[ColtRider]

Of course I am...the air pressure issue is what affects the integrity of the game...the lie itself has nothing to do with the game. If you want to go to town on the integrity of the people who lied, then by all means, but the game itself would only be affected by the action of deflating the footballs, not the way the team tried to explain it. That is just a means to the end...but then end is what compromises the integrity of the game.

"the air pressure is what affects the integrity of the game."

Excuse me! It's human beings that affect the integrity of the game, man.

[OffensivelyPC]

Of course I am...the air pressure issue is what affects the integrity of the game...the lie itself has nothing to do with the game. If you want to go to town on the integrity of the people who lied, then by all means, but the game itself would only be affected by the action of deflating the footballs, not the way the team tried to explain it. That is just a means to the end...but then end is what compromises the integrity of the game.

They didn't just lie.  What they did after the fact is only part of it.  The other part of it is air pressure and concealing attempts to cheat.  That is integrity of the game.  You don't have to like it, but if you think air pressure is the only thing that affects the game, there's nothing anyone can say.  You're just going to have to be at odds with everyone else here.

[ColtRider]

Brett Favre - refuses to turn over phone to NFL in investigation of his 'sexting' scandal...penalty = $50K

 

Tom Brady - refuse to turn over phone to Wells...penalty: 4 game suspension

 

The inconsistency and hypocrisy of this league is astonishing. This penalty would be the equivalent to the NBA suspending Michael Jordan for a quarter of a season because of some minor rules infraction.

Apples, oranges, and gorillas!

[OffensivelyPC]

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

They "always" deflate the footballs - Aaron Rodgers

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/aaron-rodgers-calls-refs-deflating-balls-major-problem-article-1.2086653

[Mouthfire]

Sure it has. Even some of the harshest Patriots critics here have said they believed it wasn't the biggest deal in the world and that isn't why they won those championships...this will in time be looked at the same way. Let people 'remember' the Patriots lack of cooperation...the action of football manipulation itself is what the real issue was here and down the line people will know that and it will fade. 15 years from now when the NFL Network is running their 'America's Game' marathon, you think people are gonna sit there during the 2014 episode and say 'hmm yeah they were good but they were arrogant and didn't cooperate'. Heck no. It just wont matter.

 

 

I'm sure it feels good to think this given your team's struggles against the Patriots...but you are simply not correct about it. Belichick will be a first ballot hall of famer. Brady will be a first ballot hall of famer, and 20 years from now, the NFL network will be running tribute videos of the "Great Patriots Dynasty" just like they run them now for their past great champions. Sure - a few angry shut-ins may still be shaking their fist at the tv and incoherently screaming "Bu-bu- SPYGATE!! DEFLATEGATE!!!!!"....but that's the extent of it.

 

 

Yeah, you guys keep saying that, but everyone knows it's not true.  Check your own team forum boards.... Even Pats fans are coming around to the reality that these SB's are forever tainted, and that these current era Pats will always be viewed as cheaters.  Those Pats championships will ALWAYS be mentioned in the same breath as Spygate, Deflategate, Two 1st round draft picks, Brady suspended by the league for cheating.  Unfortuately, that's reality.

 

If Brady didn't think so, he would have just admitted the wrong doing in the first place.   He knew his legacy was in major jeopardy.

 

And really, if it doesn't matter, why do you guys spend so much time trying to change our minds on the issue?  Seriously.

[dynasty13]

They didn't just lie.  What they did after the fact is only part of it.  The other part of it is air pressure and concealing attempts to cheat.  That is integrity of the game.  You don't have to like it, but if you think air pressure is the only thing that affects the game, there's nothing anyone can say.  You're just going to have to be at odds with everyone else here.

 

Ok...so I guess it really comes down to whether you try to cheat out in the open or if you try to cheat behind closed doors. Regardless of the fact that the intentions of doing it are the same, the outcome is the same, the supposed advantage gained is the same...

 

Troy Vincent's letter outlines what they mean when they say 'the integrity of the game':

 

Your actions as set forth in the report clearly constitute conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the game of professional football. The integrity of the game is of paramount importance to everyone in our league, and requires unshakable commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Each player, no matter how accomplished and otherwise respected, has an obligation to comply with the rules and must be held accountable for his actions when those rules are violated and the public’s confidence in the game is called into question."

 

Nowhere does it mention anything about lying...when talking about the integrity of the game, it specifically states a commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Like I said, the ACTION of violating the rules... but the lying is a separate issue. When it comes to the INTEGRITY OF THE GAME, the NFL is talking about trying to gain an unfair advantage by breaking the rules.

 

I'm actually surprised that many seem to think it's ok to cheat out in the open and admit it, but as soon as its done in the back room, STOP THE PRESSES WE HAVE A NATIONAL SCANDAL! 

 

Psshhh....integrity of the game, please.

[Restored]

Yeah it will be mentioned but not dwelled on...that's what I was talking about when I said Spygate has faded away. Sure it's still mentioned, but nobody really cares. It's almost like they throw the line in just to say it and then move on to what they were talking about. 

 

When they have a Top 10 list of quarterbacks, Brady will still be there at the top. They'll trot in one guy that says 'well we had the whole deflating balls thing, but he still won 4 Superbowls' and that will be the end of it. This won't influence the Patriots place in history as much as you all want it to. A bunch of fans will cling to it, but these lists, these records, their place in history...all that will be based on what they accomplished on the field, much like how past scandals don't influence other team's accomplishments either.

 

No. Patriots fans are the ones who don't care. Just because their fan base has grown to accept cheating and lack of integrity doesn't mean the rest of the NFL's fan base has. The fact that it is still mentioned and always will be says enough. It will always be "yeah they won 4 Super Bowls but they got caught cheating twice during that run". Those lists, records and place in history will always be right beside Deflategate and Spygate. You and all your other Patriots comrades bring up other scandals for other teams but never list them. The fact is, both of these scandals are unlike anything that has ever happened in the history of the NFL, hence the Patriots receiving a punishment unlike any other in history.

[OffensivelyPC]

Ok...so I guess it really comes down to whether you try to cheat out in the open or if you try to cheat behind closed doors. Regardless of the fact that the intentions of doing it are the same, the outcome is the same, the supposed advantage gained is the same...

 

Troy Vincent's letter outlines what they mean when they say 'the integrity of the game':

 

Your actions as set forth in the report clearly constitute conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the game of professional football. The integrity of the game is of paramount importance to everyone in our league, and requires unshakable commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Each player, no matter how accomplished and otherwise respected, has an obligation to comply with the rules and must be held accountable for his actions when those rules are violated and the public’s confidence in the game is called into question."

 

Nowhere does it mention anything about lying...when talking about the integrity of the game, it specifically states a commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Like I said, the ACTION of violating the rules... but the lying is a separate issue. When it comes to the INTEGRITY OF THE GAME, the NFL is talking about trying to gain an unfair advantage by breaking the rules.

 

I'm actually surprised that many seem to think it's ok to cheat out in the open and admit it, but as soon as its done in the back room, STOP THE PRESSES WE HAVE A NATIONAL SCANDAL! 

 

Psshhh....integrity of the game, please.

Yeah, that's one paragraph that mentions integrity of the game.  Her'es another one that also mentions integrity and cites in one sentence, the things that violate that policy.

 

"In determining that a violation occurred, we applied the standard of proof stated in the Integrity of the Game Policy: namely, preponderance of the evidence, meaning that ‘as a whole, the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not.’ This is a well-recognized legal standard, which is applied in courts and workplaces every day throughout the country. The evidence gathered during the investigation and reviewed in the report more than satisfy this standard and demonstrate an ongoing plan by at least certain Patriots’ employees to deflate footballs, to do so in a secretive manner after the game officials have certified the footballs as suitable for play, and to hide these activities even from their own supervisors."

 

It doesn't mention lying.  I don't know why you keep hanging your hat on that.  The integrity of the game which I have said so many times I could puke, was both the air pressure and the act of concealing said deflation.  It's right there for you to read, pelase don't make me say it again.

[Bad Morty]

No. Patriots fans are the ones who don't care. Just because their fan base has grown to accept cheating and lack of integrity doesn't mean the rest of the NFL's fan base has. The fact that it is still mentioned and always will be says enough. It will always be "yeah they won 4 Super Bowls but they got caught cheating twice during that run". Those lists, records and place in history will always be right beside Deflategate and Spygate. You and all your other Patriots comrades bring up other scandals for other teams but never list them. The fact is, both of these scandals are unlike anything that has ever happened in the history of the NFL, hence the Patriots receiving a punishment unlike any other in history.

We just had 2 this year, between using the old Colts trick of pumping in crowd noise and texting to coaches on the field. But please - carry on living in this bubble of self-righteous sanctimony where there are 31 clean and pure teams and then there's the Patriots.

[OffensivelyPC]

Ok...so I guess it really comes down to whether you try to cheat out in the open or if you try to cheat behind closed doors. Regardless of the fact that the intentions of doing it are the same, the outcome is the same, the supposed advantage gained is the same...

 

Troy Vincent's letter outlines what they mean when they say 'the integrity of the game':

 

Your actions as set forth in the report clearly constitute conduct detrimental to the integrity of and public confidence in the game of professional football. The integrity of the game is of paramount importance to everyone in our league, and requires unshakable commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Each player, no matter how accomplished and otherwise respected, has an obligation to comply with the rules and must be held accountable for his actions when those rules are violated and the public’s confidence in the game is called into question."

 

Nowhere does it mention anything about lying...when talking about the integrity of the game, it specifically states a commitment to fairness and compliance with the playing rules. Like I said, the ACTION of violating the rules... but the lying is a separate issue. When it comes to the INTEGRITY OF THE GAME, the NFL is talking about trying to gain an unfair advantage by breaking the rules.

 

I'm actually surprised that many seem to think it's ok to cheat out in the open and admit it, but as soon as its done in the back room, STOP THE PRESSES WE HAVE A NATIONAL SCANDAL! 

 

Psshhh....integrity of the game, please.

Also, about the cheating out in the open, if we were to adopt your draconian interpretation of integrity of hte game, literally no championship would be validated.  If that weere the case, no one would even watch it.  It would be unscripted wrestling.  If it's out in the open and the refs catch it, fine.  Like I said, a certain amount of cheating is expected in any competition.  But if you're doing it in the open and its missed, at least you can just say the refs missed it - something that happens in any sport by the way.  Deliberately concealing attempts to cheat, an entirely different infraction.  It's worse on any level and it goes to the heart of the game's integrity.  Why you can't won't see that is just flabbergasting.

[dynasty13]

They "always" deflate the footballs - Aaron Rodgers

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/football/aaron-rodgers-calls-refs-deflating-balls-major-problem-article-1.2086653

 

Yeah...so Rodgers thinks there should be no maximum because he prefers them on the high range, but thinks there should be a minimum because it puts him at a disadvantage when they are flatter. Like he said, it's all about preference, and just because his is different than the majority of other quarterbacks, that shouldn't effect how the league views it.

 

Sounds like damage control after his comments came out that he liked to over inflate footballs when the deflation story broke. The point is that the rule is the rule...and whether you break it to add more air or break it to let out air, that infraction is one in the same and should be looked at as effecting the 'integrity of the game' the same way. 

[OffensivelyPC]

Yeah...so Rodgers thinks there should be no maximum because he prefers them on the high range, but thinks there should be a minimum because it puts him at a disadvantage when they are flatter. Like he said, it's all about preference, and just because his is different than the majority of other quarterbacks, that shouldn't effect how the league views it.

 

Sounds like damage control after his comments came out that he liked to over inflate footballs when the deflation story broke. The point is that the rule is the rule...and whether you break it to add more air or break it to let out air, that infraction is one in the same and should be looked at as effecting the 'integrity of the game' the same way. 

His opinion on the football is irrelevant.  He hasn't broken any rules as far as anyone knows, he hasn't been investigated, he hasn't been punished.  End of story.

[crazycolt1]

I'm sure it feels good to think this given your team's struggles against the Patriots...but you are simply not correct about it. Belichick will be a first ballot hall of famer. Brady will be a first ballot hall of famer, and 20 years from now, the NFL network will be running tribute videos of the "Great Patriots Dynasty" just like they run them now for their past great champions. Sure - a few angry shut-ins may still be shaking their fist at the tv and incoherently screaming "Bu-bu- SPYGATE!! DEFLATEGATE!!!!!"....but that's the extent of it.

They wil not be yelling "bu-bu SPYGATE!! DEFLATEGATE!!!!" they will be yelling "CHEATERS!!"

[Restored]

We just had 2 this year, between using the old Colts trick of pumping in crowd noise and texting to coaches on the field. But please - carry on living in this bubble of self-righteous sanctimony where there are 31 clean and pure teams and then there's the Patriots.

 

Too bad the Colts were never found to actually be pumping in crowd noise. Keep digging though. Again, if you want to treat everything equally, then you must live in a Utopian kind of world and not reality. Based on your logic, no team should receive punishment or reprimand for anything because everyone else has done things too. The Patriots got caught doing things that no other teams have gotten caught doing AND got punished for doing it.

[Bad Morty]

Too bad the Colts were never found to actually be pumping in crowd noise. Keep digging though.

But it's "more probable than not" that they were. I think that's the funniest thing about Colts fans...you guys all completely dismiss the likelihood that they were doing this, as I suspect MOST dome teams do. The mud will land on your team eventually, no matter what team you root for.

[Bad Morty]

They wil not be yelling "bu-bu SPYGATE!! DEFLATEGATE!!!!" they will be yelling "CHEATERS!!"

yeah...whatever...it's the same mental illness no matter what they are yelling.

[dynasty13]

No. Patriots fans are the ones who don't care. Just because their fan base has grown to accept cheating and lack of integrity doesn't mean the rest of the NFL's fan base has. The fact that it is still mentioned and always will be says enough. It will always be "yeah they won 4 Super Bowls but they got caught cheating twice during that run". Those lists, records and place in history will always be right beside Deflategate and Spygate. You and all your other Patriots comrades bring up other scandals for other teams but never list them. The fact is, both of these scandals are unlike anything that has ever happened in the history of the NFL, hence the Patriots receiving a punishment unlike any other in history.

 

Actually, many other past scandals are very much like this one in terms of how it affects the integrity of the game, and I'd be happy to list some as long as Crazycolt doesn't swoop in and say I am mentioning other teams infractions as a way to justify what the Patriots did.

 

Remember how the Broncos won two Superbowls in the 90s? Well it turns out they circumvented the salary cap which helped them keep players that they normally wouldnt be able to. That just happened to happen the exact years that they won their Superbowls. Could you imagine the outrage if that happened now?

 

Remember a few years ago when the Chargers were caught using a towel on footballs that had a stick-em like substance on it. Talk about manipulating the football to gain an unfair advantage. 

 

Even just this year the Falcons were found to be pumping in crowd noise,...and it's well documented how crowd noise can effect a game.

 

Who gets to judge the severity of these infractions...you? Deflating a football is unlike any scandal the NFL has seen before? Please. If a team pulled the same thing with the salary cap that the Broncos did now, in this age of social media and the 24 hour news cycle, it would be twice the scandal that deflategate has become. Plenty of teams have done things over the years, but it was a different time then, and the masses weren't hammered over the head with it as things are now and that's the only reason that people look at these Patriots infractions as some huge unprecedented scandal.

[crazycolt1]

“‘I like to push the limit to how much air we can put in the football, even go over what they allow you to do and see if the officials take air out of it,'” Simms said Rodgers told them before the game.

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/20/aaron-rodgers-likes-his-footballs-overinflated/

You are doing it again. Talking about what someone else did or didn't do. I am pretty sure the NFL will be checking footballs for every team including the Packers in the future. They are going to make changes in the way the footballs are handled and prepared next season. And guess what? You can thank Brady for that.

[dw49]

Yeah, that's one paragraph that mentions integrity of the game.  Her'es another one that also mentions integrity and cites in one sentence, the things that violate that policy.

 

"In determining that a violation occurred, we applied the standard of proof stated in the Integrity of the Game Policy: namely, preponderance of the evidence, meaning that ‘as a whole, the fact sought to be proved is more probable than not.’ This is a well-recognized legal standard, which is applied in courts and workplaces every day throughout the country. The evidence gathered during the investigation and reviewed in the report more than satisfy this standard and demonstrate an ongoing plan by at least certain Patriots’ employees to deflate footballs, to do so in a secretive manner after the game officials have certified the footballs as suitable for play, and to hide these activities even from their own supervisors."

 

It doesn't mention lying.  I don't know why you keep hanging your hat on that.  The integrity of the game which I have said so many times I could puke, was both the air pressure and the act of concealing said deflation.  It's right there for you to read, pelase don't make me say it again.

 

 

Try pounding your noggin against a brick wall and then re-read this stuff they are actually asking us to buy into. If it works and makes sense let me know.

[OffensivelyPC]

But it's "more probable than not" that they were. I think that's the funniest thing about Colts fans...you guys all completely dismiss the likelihood that they were doing this, as I suspect MOST dome teams do. The mud will land on your team eventually, no matter what team you root for.

How so?  The NFL literally said there was no violation and the noise CBS thought they heard was feedback from CBS' audio system.  That's not a more probable than not, that's a blanket statement that it didn't happen and it was something else.  The NFL completely exonerated the Colts, and left no question as to the Colts innocence to anyone who can read.  Everything you just said was a complete farce.

[Shane Bond]

I was little sad about David Letterman retiring.

 

Not anymore. Thanks to the comic relief of some of the posts here.

[crazycolt1]

yeah...whatever...it's the same mental illness no matter what they are yelling.

So telling the truth is a mental illness? Then I guess that can be used as the next excuse by Patriots fans. Kraft, Brady and Belichick suffer from mental illness.

[ColtRider]

But it's "more probable than not" that they were. I think that's the funniest thing about Colts fans...you guys all completely dismiss the likelihood that they were doing this, as I suspect MOST dome teams do. The mud will land on your team eventually, no matter what team you root for.

You know what they say about the word "assume", right?

[dynasty13]

You are doing it again. Talking about what someone else did or didn't do. I am pretty sure the NFL will be checking footballs for every team including the Packers in the future. They are going to make changes in the way the footballs are handled and prepared next season. And guess what? You can thank Brady for that.

 

And that's fine...but some are trying to make the case that doing something illegal and getting caught for doing something illegal can somehow be looked at as the offense itself being different, and that's nonsense. I'm sorry that it bugs you so much, but it helps to give examples when trying to make a point, and my point is that I'm questioning the consistency of how the NFL looks at issues that deal with violating the integrity of the game.

 

If I didn't give examples, you all would be asking for proof. 

[dw49]

But it's "more probable than not" that they were. I think that's the funniest thing about Colts fans...you guys all completely dismiss the likelihood that they were doing this, as I suspect MOST dome teams do. The mud will land on your team eventually, no matter what team you root for.

 

 

What a pile of crap that is. Unbelievable....

[OffensivelyPC]

Try pounding your noggin against a brick wall and then re-read this stuff they are actually asking us to buy into. If it works and makes sense let me know.

It's next to impossible, disoriented or not.  lol.  

[crazycolt1]

But it's "more probable than not" that they were. I think that's the funniest thing about Colts fans...you guys all completely dismiss the likelihood that they were doing this, as I suspect MOST dome teams do. The mud will land on your team eventually, no matter what team you root for.

Were you ever at a game in the RCA dome? It's design made the crowd noise almost unbearable at times. I can understand why some might have thought that crowd noise was faked but it was not. There was an investigation and the results of that was no crowd noise was added. So put that in your pipe and smoke it.

[OffensivelyPC]

And that's fine...but some are trying to make the case that doing something illegal and getting caught for doing something illegal can somehow be looked at as the offense itself being different, and that's nonsense. 

If that's the case, your interpretation of the integrity of the game makes every game won a questionable achievement.  A guy holds and doesn't get caught would apparently mean he tried to get an advantage and succeeded, therefore, they get an asterisks.  Please...

[dynasty13]

If that's the case, your interpretation of the integrity of the game makes every game won a questionable achievement.  A guy holds and doesn't get caught would apparently mean he tried to get an advantage and succeeded, therefore, they get an asterisks.  Please...

 

I'm not talking about in game penalties like holding and pass interference and you know it. 

[crazycolt1]

And that's fine...but some are trying to make the case that doing something illegal and getting caught for doing something illegal can somehow be looked at as the offense itself being different, and that's nonsense. I'm sorry that it bugs you so much, but it helps to give examples when trying to make a point, and my point is that I'm questioning the consistency of how the NFL looks at issues that deal with violating the integrity of the game.

 

If I didn't give examples, you all would be asking for proof. 

I see your point. But in an earlier comment you mentioned fairness and how the Patriots was not being treated in a fair manor compared to other teams infractions. Please answer this question. If fairness is an issue with you where was the fairness in what the Patriots did to other teams? If you want fair treatment shouldn't you use fairness?

[jvan1973]

And how is it impossible for any of you to understand that I'm focusing on the action itself, not the response of the team in the fallout? The action itself of deflating footballs SHOULD be what people are all upset about, especially when they continually trot out there and talk about the integrity of the game and how trying to get an unfair advantage may compromise that.

Every one of you is focusing on the team lying...but if it's truly about the integrity of the game, then people should be outraged every time the rules are broken intentionally, people should be outraged every time there is in action to gain an unfair advantage...not just this one time because the Patriots tried to hide it. Again...the integrity of the people is NOT the same thing as the integrity of the game...so either be honest about what is actually bothering you guys about all this, or stop using the integrity of the game excuse.

Its about both. The action was done. Then the team and Brady don't cooperate in the investigation.

A player trying to gain an advantage on the field is much different than a covert OP in which rules were broken, then follow that up with a cover up and fake outrage. Its the arrogance as much as anything is why I'm glad the league punished the pats

[GoColts8818]

But it's "more probable than not" that they were. I think that's the funniest thing about Colts fans...you guys all completely dismiss the likelihood that they were doing this, as I suspect MOST dome teams do. The mud will land on your team eventually, no matter what team you root for.

no it's not. The league looked into the claim and cleared the Colts who cooperated fully with the league, it's pretty much the exact opposite of the Pats who were found to have more than likely done what they were being accused of and did not fully cooperate with the league. So while you may believe it happened the league found nothing to support that it did. Very different from what is going on now.

[OffensivelyPC]

I'm not talking about in game penalties like holding and pass interference and you know it. 

But it's cheating without getting caught.  You aren't talking about that (holding), but what you are saying is exactly what that would include.  I mean, you said:

 

And that's fine...but some are trying to make the case that doing something illegal and getting caught for doing something illegal can somehow be looked at as the offense itself being different, and that's nonsense.

Holding is illegal, is it not?  So now you're making a distinction between illegal acts that are permissible if not caught, and illegal acts that aren't if not caught.  It's no differnet than the distinction I was drawing.  Like I said, some cheating is expected, and some cheating will go unnoticed. But there's a huge difference between concealing attempts to cheat so that it can't be caught and doing things out in the open.  When you do it out in the open, it's at least possible that (a) no one knew it was a violation or (b) it was an accident.  Thta's what makes things out in the open a lesser offense.  In the Vikings/Panthers game and in the case of holding, both those violations could have fallen under (a) or (b).  But even if they knew it was against the rules, it's out in the open, and they could later get fined or punished for it.  That fine or punishment will be a whole heck of a lot less than if they did it in concealment.  Hence why the Patriots violation was unequivocally worse.