McShay/Kiper Mock Draft

[Dustin]

 

Hate the Colts pick. 

 

Landon Collins doesn't go in the first.

 

Vic Beasley doesn't go in the first. 

[MTC]

Worst mock of the season. So much bad. 

[RealityIsLuck]

LOVE the Colts pick. Won't happen though. And this is a horrible mock.

[wig]

They have Donavon Smith in the 2nd and James Sample in the 3rd.  Don't like the Smith pick.

[CR91]

why would we take ray over beasley?

[Dustin]

why would we take ray over beasley?

 

There's no reason. Unless somebody literally has a video of Beasley murdering somebody, there's no reason he should go after Ray. 

[esmort]

Wow, the only reason I can see them making a mock this horrible is so that when they put players back at reasonable positions in their last mock before the draft it looks like they made some big changes .... otherwise this mock makes no sense. 

[Defjamz26]

As if Grigson would pass over Collins for an overrated edge rusher. I bet the reasoning behind the pick will be "Mathis is coming off an injury and might not be ready for the start of the season while Trent Cole is stop gap and Newsome and Werner are unproven"

[Superman]

At least it's not a bunch of animals.

[Gavin]

 Beasley not even going in the 1st, Ray is a good pick if he would be healhy, Other then that I am totally annoyed by all the Insider info you have to pay for even though its not that much

[HtownColt]

Phillip Dorsett at 16?

[12isthenew18]

perriman is trash

[C0lts088]

7 receivers in the 1st!?

[Defjamz26]

Can't wait to see Mayock's mock draft now. Hopefully he puts these jokers to shame.

[DougDew]

7 receivers in the 1st!?

I'm smiling...but not saying I like the mock.

The FIRST round is for IMPACT PLAYERS (now or potential)..not trenchmen (other than LTs or elite DTs), box safeties, or ILBs. Its generally about speed too.

I think GMs look at it that way.

Interesting comments about Ray. Polian said today that he is the ONLY player in the draft that would make you sad if you passed on him.

[Colts_Fan12]

Why the hell would we take Ray over Beasley!!!

[PhillyCOLTSfan]

i was  saying this as soon as i heard the news bout shane ray hopefully he falls to us and this mock proved me right but it just a mock i can hope though 

[NewColtsFan]

Scrolling through this thread -- it's unanimous -- everyone HATES the mock for the Colts.

 

What NO ONE noted is that there were two front office types commenting on the choices.

 

Bill Polian and Louis Riddick.     And both flat-out LOVED the pick for the Colts. 

 

Oh well...    but what do they know?           

[Gavin]

Scrolling through this thread -- it's unanimous -- everyone HATES the mock for the Colts.

 

What NO ONE noted is that there were two front office types commenting on the choices.

 

Bill Polian and Louis Riddick.     And both flat-out LOVED the pick for the Colts. 

 

Oh well...    but what do they know?           

Great pick if he is ready to go.....But if he is ready to go I don't see him falling  to 29

[Dustin]

Scrolling through this thread -- it's unanimous -- everyone HATES the mock for the Colts.

What NO ONE noted is that there were two front office types commenting on the choices.

Bill Polian and Louis Riddick. And both flat-out LOVED the pick for the Colts.

Oh well... but what do they know?

Why would anyone spend a first rounder on a bad athlete edge rusher.

[Gavin]

Why would anyone spend a first rounder on a bad athlete edge rusher.

Because he is not a bad athletic edge rusher

[NewColtsFan]

Why would anyone spend a first rounder on a bad athlete edge rusher.

 

If you're talking about the injury,  that can get fixed.

 

Otherwise,  I don't know what your complaint is.....?

[Dustin]

Because he is not a bad athletic edge rusher

http://mockdraftable.com/player/4888/position/19/

[NewColtsFan]

Great pick if he is ready to go.....But if he is ready to go I don't see him falling  to 29

 

Neither Polian nor Riddick cared a bit if he was ready to go.     Their attitude was picking at 29,  you're getting a guy who otherwise would've gone in the teens and he's dropped into your lap.    If he's not ready until October or so,  they were fine with that....

[Dustin]

If you're talking about the injury, that can get fixed.

Otherwise, I don't know what your complaint is.....?

He's one of the least athletic EDGEs in the class.

[NewColtsFan]

http://mockdraftable.com/player/4888/position/19/

 

You think a toe that is likely going to require surgery, if not 3-4 months of complete rest might have something to do with it?

[DougDew]

Scrolling through this thread -- it's unanimous -- everyone HATES the mock for the Colts.

 

What NO ONE noted is that there were two front office types commenting on the choices.

 

Bill Polian and Louis Riddick.     And both flat-out LOVED the pick for the Colts. 

 

Oh well...    but what do they know?           

In the big picture...the positions that the Colts tend to immediately need the most, S, ILB, RT, Stout DT, tend to be the positions that fall in the draft. I seriously think the Colts should pass on any player in those positions since a decent one will can be found in other rounds...even if he is technically the BPA. That's why I still think a trade down is likely.

The first round should always be reserved for WR, scheme-fit pass rusher (either an end in a 4-3 or an OLB in a 3-4), LT (Colts don't need one), QB (colts don't need one )a #1 CB (Colts don't need one), or a Warren Sapp Ngata type of DT (one won't be there at 29)

And what we might find out with TY, AC, Luck, (and in the past) Freeney...the good ones at those positions are expensive to resign, so you don't pass on a guy in one of those positions in round 1 if you have the chance to get him and a way to use him.

That might not work that way this year...but that's the big picture way I look at any draft.

[Dustin]

You think a toe that is likely going to require surgery, if not 3-4 months of complete rest might have something to do with it?

No, because the areas he did bad in are the areas he's bad in on tape. Short area quickness, lateral agility, and explosion. 

 

He's also undersized. 

[Dustin]

This is what a first-round caliber edge rusher's athletic profile looks like:

 

http://mockdraftable.com/player/4905/position/19/

[NewColtsFan]

No, because the areas he did bad in are the areas he's bad in on tape. Short area quickness, lateral agility, and explosion. 

 

He's also undersized. 

 

6'3 and 250 and he's undersized?

 

As to your review,  no surprise,  but the people who do this for a living see something completely different.   Here's NFL.com....

 

After this review,  I'll be back with more.     It's as if you're watching someone completely different....

 

Analysis Strengths

Explosive athlete in every sense. Has elite power for his size and explodes off the line like a coiled spring. Rushes passer with extreme passion and purpose. Has fast, violent hands with advanced understanding of how to use them. Tough and plays with bad intentions on each snap. Uses rip to get under linemen and out-leverage them. Played 4-3 defensive right end in base but rushed from three-technique in some sub-packages. Once he gets to blocker's edge, they struggle to recover and redirect. Rare ability to post inside leg and get his body turned sharply and quickly around it toward quarterback. Excellent change-of-direction talent. Has natural coordination of head fakes, footwork and hand usage in pass rush. Works hard to stand his ground against power. Has power in upper body and hips to punch and dispatch with tight ends against run. Rarely runs past the arc as a rusher and will fight to come back underneath if he gets on the high side. Was able to drop into space with no issues when asked.

Weaknesses Lacks ideal length as an outside rusher. At times was engulfed and glued to the bigger tackles he faced. Can get too focused on hand fighting if he doesn't win with hands early in pass rush. Will occasionally stunt himself out of a play, opening up running lane. If rushing from inside, must learn to set up teammates when running "T/E" (tackle first, end under) twists. Relies on arm-over inside and slap/rip outside -- needs more variety to pass rush. Draft Projection Round 1 Sources Tell Us "He's not like other guys from Missouri that we've seen. He's got serious speed to get over the top of tackles and those other ends didn't have it. You just wish he was a little longer." -- NFC outside linebackers coach NFL Comparison Chris Clemons Bottom Line

It's hard to find many play weaknesses for Ray, but his lack of overall length is one area that some teams have concerns about. He pursues the quarterback and the ball like it's his last snap. An alpha male packaged in an explosive frame, Ray has the traits and skills to be a dominant pass rusher and potential Pro Bowler. He also has the athleticism and strength to play in any defensive front.

[NewColtsFan]

No, because the areas he did bad in are the areas he's bad in on tape. Short area quickness, lateral agility, and explosion. 

 

He's also undersized. 

 

And here's the review from ESPN.com     These people see something completely different.   Your view is not just a little bit different from theirs....  it's miles and miles apart...

 

 

 

 

Overall Football Traits

 

Production 2 2011: Redshirt 2012 (12/0): 16-2.5-02013 (14/0): 39-9-4.5 2014 (14/14): 65-22.5-13

 

Height-Weight-Speed 3 Height and bulk as a DE prospect are both below average, which is why he's likely a conversion 3-4 OLB in NFL. Elite speed for position. Reportedly ran in the 4.4s during 2014 offseason workouts. Has not yet run during pre-draft process.

 

Durability 2 Was not medically cleared to work out at combine (toe injury). In 2014, appeared to hurt shoulder in Florida game (third-quarter sack), but returned a couple of series later. Started all 14 games in 2014 and played in heavy rotation in all 14 games in 2013. Long arms but smaller hands.

 

Intangibles 2 Hard worker on and off field. Puts in time in film room. Developing into a leader on defense. Ejected from 2014 SEC championship game for targeting. Son of Wendell Ray and Sebrina Johnson. Father was a defensive linemen and was drafted by the Vikings in 1981.

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal

 

 

Outside Linebacker Specific Traits

 

Instincts/Recognition 1 Naturally instinctive with good eye-discipline. Locates ball quickly. Sniffs out screen and chases like a wild dog. Above-average gap discipline and awareness as a pass-rusher.

 

Take-on Skills 4 Lacks ideal anchor strength and will struggle versus bigger OTs to hold up in phone-booth matchups. Gives up ground versus double team initially, but fights hard to split and can usually get back in play. Doesn't always keep shoulders square to line of scrimmage.

 

Range vs. Run 1 Active and disruptive. Quickly redirects and will chase all day long. Makes a lot of plays in pursuit. Relentless motor. Zero issue with effort or toughness.

 

Tackling 3 Shows good initial pop but doesn't consistently drive legs through contact. Has some tightness in space and can be susceptible versus quicker ball-carriers. Doesn't fall off many tackles once engaged. Does a good job of lasso-ing from behind when in pursuit.

 

3rd Down Capabilities 2 Elite first-step quickness and snap anticipation. Explodes off the line and gets OTs back on heels. Has violent hands and effective rip, club and swim moves. Very agile and sudden for position, but too much wasted movement at times. Has initial pop to stand offensive tackles up but stalls out too often when attempting to convert speed to power. Lacks ideal finishing flexibility to turn the corner while engaged (this is a major concern considering very few top-flight NFL pass-rushers struggle in this area). Very good closing burst to QB and violent tomahawk chop. Fits best as a 3-4 OLB or wide-9 in a Tampa-2. Sack production (13 sacks in 2014) is a bit misleading. Of 13 sacks, 5.5 came against non-conference opponents. Of the 7.5 sacks versus SEC opponents, 2.5 were against Kentucky and Tennessee. Plus, one of two sacks versus South Carolina was against the right guard (not LT Corey Robinson or LG A.J. Cann, both of whom are NFL prospects). And both sacks versus Florida were when LT D.J. Humphries (another prospect) was late out of his stance (while looking inside for snap).

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal

[Dustin]

6'3 and 250 and he's undersized?

 

 

Yes. His height is in the 13th percentile for DEs and his weight puts him in the 3rd. Pretty much the definition of undersized. 

 

As to your review,  no surprise,  but the people who do this for a living see something completely different.   Here's NFL.com....

 

After this review,  I'll be back with more.     It's as if you're watching someone completely different....

 

 

Those guys are usually wrong. 

 

Here's Bjoern Werner's (my Shane Ray comp.) profile:

 

STRENGTHS

 Flexible athlete with the natural bend to dip and contort his body to get under or around blocks. Shows excellent snap anticipation and fires out of his stance, playing fast and hard with very good quickness off the edge. Projects as a strong-side 4-3 end who can play the run well and get pressure on the quarterback. Possesses very good quickness off the snap for his size and flashes some shimmy to get the inside lane. Finds the ball well and uses active hands to rip past tackles after initial contact. Brings power to his punch, can bull his man toward the quarterback with leverage. Swallows running backs after shedding his man in the run game, has athleticism to make tackles in space. Stacks and sheds well, sets the edge and works off blocks to make stops in the run game. Times jumps well to knock down passes if unable to get to the quarterback, also looks comfortable making plays in coverage (18 career passes defended).

 

If I gave you ten tries to pick out who's profile this was, you would never guess Werner.

 

#NoMoreUnathleticEdgeRushers

[Dustin]

 

And here's the review from ESPN.com

 

 

 

Overall Football Traits

 

Production 2 2011: Redshirt 2012 (12/0): 16-2.5-02013 (14/0): 39-9-4.5 2014 (14/14): 65-22.5-13

 

Height-Weight-Speed 3 Height and bulk as a DE prospect are both below average, which is why he's likely a conversion 3-4 OLB in NFL. Elite speed for position. Reportedly ran in the 4.4s during 2014 offseason workouts. Has not yet run during pre-draft process.

 

Durability 2 Was not medically cleared to work out at combine (toe injury). In 2014, appeared to hurt shoulder in Florida game (third-quarter sack), but returned a couple of series later. Started all 14 games in 2014 and played in heavy rotation in all 14 games in 2013. Long arms but smaller hands.

 

Intangibles 2 Hard worker on and off field. Puts in time in film room. Developing into a leader on defense. Ejected from 2014 SEC championship game for targeting. Son of Wendell Ray and Sebrina Johnson. Father was a defensive linemen and was drafted by the Vikings in 1981.

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average  3 = Average  4 = Below average  5 = Marginal

 

 

Outside Linebacker Specific Traits

 

Instincts/Recognition 1 Naturally instinctive with good eye-discipline. Locates ball quickly. Sniffs out screen and chases like a wild dog. Above-average gap discipline and awareness as a pass-rusher.

 

Take-on Skills 4 Lacks ideal anchor strength and will struggle versus bigger OTs to hold up in phone-booth matchups. Gives up ground versus double team initially, but fights hard to split and can usually get back in play. Doesn't always keep shoulders square to line of scrimmage.

 

Range vs. Run 1 Active and disruptive. Quickly redirects and will chase all day long. Makes a lot of plays in pursuit. Relentless motor. Zero issue with effort or toughness.

 

Tackling 3 Shows good initial pop but doesn't consistently drive legs through contact. Has some tightness in space and can be susceptible versus quicker ball-carriers. Doesn't fall off many tackles once engaged. Does a good job of lasso-ing from behind when in pursuit.

 

3rd Down Capabilities 2 Elite first-step quickness and snap anticipation. Explodes off the line and gets OTs back on heels. Has violent hands and effective rip, club and swim moves. Very agile and sudden for position, but too much wasted movement at times. Has initial pop to stand offensive tackles up but stalls out too often when attempting to convert speed to power. Lacks ideal finishing flexibility to turn the corner while engaged (this is a major concern considering very few top-flight NFL pass-rushers struggle in this area). Very good closing burst to QB and violent tomahawk chop. Fits best as a 3-4 OLB or wide-9 in a Tampa-2. Sack production (13 sacks in 2014) is a bit misleading. Of 13 sacks, 5.5 came against non-conference opponents. Of the 7.5 sacks versus SEC opponents, 2.5 were against Kentucky and Tennessee. Plus, one of two sacks versus South Carolina was against the right guard (not LT Corey Robinson or LG A.J. Cann, both of whom are NFL prospects). And both sacks versus Florida were when LT D.J. Humphries (another prospect) was late out of his stance (while looking inside for snap).

 

1 = Exceptional  2 = Above average 3 = Average4 = Below average5 = Marginal

 

 

This the same website that ranked Beasley #41? Whew. 

[C0lts088]

I'm smiling...but not saying I like the mock.

The FIRST round is for IMPACT PLAYERS (now or potential)..not trenchmen (other than LTs or elite DTs), box safeties, or ILBs. Its generally about speed too.

I think GMs look at it that way.

Interesting comments about Ray. Polian said today that he is the ONLY player in the draft that would make you sad if you passed on him.

I get what your saying, but how'd it workout for the Cowboys? The drafted Claiborne an "impact player" that hasn't done anything, while smith Fredrick and Martin all had a pretty big impact almost right away

[NewColtsFan]

Yes. His height is in the 13th percentile for DEs and his weight puts him in the 3rd. Pretty much the definition of undersized. 

 

 

Those guys are usually wrong. 

 

Here's Bjoern Werner's (my Shane Ray comp.) profile:

 

 

If I gave you ten tries to pick out who's profile this was, you would never guess Werner.

 

#NoMoreUnathleticEdgeRushers

 

He's not a defensive end....   he's an outside linebacker.  

 

I'm not sure why you think he's a DE?

 

As for "these guys are usually wrong"   that's the review from Lance Zierlein,  who you told me was great....

 

And Polian and Riddick loved the pick.    Said the Colts would be thrilled if they got him.

 

But,  we're back to Dustin knows more than professionals.......

[Dustin]

He's not a defensive end....   he's an outside linebacker.  

 

I'm not sure why you think he's a DE?......

 

DE on the site is where the majority of edge rushers are listed. 

 

As for "these guys are usually wrong"   that's the review from Lance Zierlein,  who you told me was great....

 

 

He usually is. Not in this case. 

 

And Polian and Riddick loved the pick.    Said the Colts would be thrilled if they got him.

 

 

Grigson spent a 1st round pick on Bjoern Werner, so I have no doubt that Grigson would love to get Ray.

 

But,  we're back to Dustin knows more than professionals

 

Mel Kiper literally hypes dude's up if he's friends with their agents, and you expect me to care about his draft grades? 

[DougDew]

I get what your saying, but how'd it workout for the Cowboys? The drafted Claiborne an "impact player" that hasn't done anything, while smith Fredrick and Martin all had a pretty big impact almost right away

With Claiborne they whiffed on the player, not the position. He stinks even if he was drafted in round 4. I think Martin is an LT on another team. I'll give you Frederick as being good, but I don't think I'd ever call a C an impact player and he could've been gotten later if the Boys weren't going all in on protecting Romo.

The team would not have made the playoffs with just a great OL. They already had the great WR, great QB, and good RB. I think they got lucky on defense last year and need real talent. They may overdraft defensive players this year.

I think the mock draft tends to show that speed and edge players tend to rise and push out the other players out of the first round. I'm wondering if the DTs are really that good to have so many in round 1, or are benefitting from a weak QB class.

[Gavin]

http://mockdraftable.com/player/4888/position/19/

I think your putting way to much into those numbers when the tape tells a different story, He has to add some strength and develop his pass rush moves some

[Dustin]

I think your putting way to much into those numbers when the tape tells a different story

 

But the tape doesn't tell a different story. 

 

Athletic drill performance correlates to edge rushing success more than any other position in the NFL. 

[NewColtsFan]

But the tape doesn't tell a different story. 

 

Athletic drill performance correlates to edge rushing success more than any other position in the NFL. 

 

According to the profiles I've posted and you're clearly not reading,  the tape tells a very, very different story.

 

You choose not to accept it.