Mayock has Damarious Randall as his #1 safety + updated positional rankings.

[NewColtsFan]

No, he had him mocked in the first for the last week and a half. He was the first "national guy" to do so.

 

That makes no difference.

 

A guy who makes lists of talent has a guy at 181st.    

 

Then suddenly,  he's in the top-32.

 

Like I said......  ridiculous and meaningless to me.

 

Like a few years ago when CBS Sports had Ryan Nassib, the Syracuse QB as the number one ranked PLAYER in all of college football either in December or January.     It was after the season.

 

Not the number one ranked QB, which would've been ridiculouis.   The number one ranked PLAYER!   

 

And Nassib went in the 4th round to the Giants.

 

Those kind of things just crush all credibility to me.    I don't mind someone being off,  being a little bit wrong.   A round here or there....

 

But moving from round 6 to round 1 is just nuts.   And not to be respected.

 

Heck,  the only reason you're arguing here is the separate issue of Mike Mayock.     You don't even like the guy!    You call him a ht4 rounder with no visible starting traits.    Hello?!?

[Dustin]

That makes no difference.

 

 

You asked for another person who moved him up high. Did I not give you the answer you wanted?

[NewColtsFan]

You asked for another person who moved him up high. Did I not give you the answer you wanted?

 

Great.    Good for you.

 

You found a * who made a fool of himself one way or the other.

 

If Randall goes in the first,  or another high round,  it's embarrassing that Miller had Randall as #181 up to about a week ago.

 

I'm not sure how Miller saves face with this one.....

 

But if this is Wig's idea of "momentum" he can have it.....

[wig]

Matt Miller moved him up from his #181th ranked player to putting him in the first round.

But CBS and ESPN haven't, and since that's what NCF reads it's what matters.

[wig]

Great. Good for you.

You found a * who made a fool of himself one way or the other.

If Randall goes in the first, or another high round, it's embarrassing that Miller had Randall as #181 up to about a week ago.

I'm not sure how Miller saves face with this one.....

But if this is Wig's idea of "momentum" he can have it.....

You're acting like a child.

He should be embarrassed that he had him ranked where everyone else did and was the first to move him up into the first? If Randall goes in the first, and he was the first to predict it, that should be a point of shame? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

[ColtsBlueFL]

What Im wondering is when it comes to a prospect (Randall just for example) is how much tape they watch on a player, such as a full game, a couple full games, Do they have gobs of film around on ALL the prospects (That would be a ton of film)...Im also interested on their grading system used.

 

When Bucky Brooks was in Seattle they would watch three tapes on a prospect and decide where said player would go on a board

Ozzie Newsome and those from the Newsome tree of scouts do it differently-

Each scout is assigned an area of the country to cover. They have cross-checker scouts  that also make a fall visit to study every draftable prospect. In the last week of November, they would send a third scout out to visit the players that they had major interest in. Once all the raw data is collected during the college season, the difficult task of coming to something like a consensus as a group starts.

Next, each scout is given a position to evaluate.  At each meeting they go over every player, read all the fall on site at game reports, review game tapes and data, re-check all star game evaluations, then discuss combine results.  Then the scout assigned to a certain player would tell what was gathered from the interview he performed.

Then the GM would ask the scouts to compare the player they just went over to other players at his position. Once a landing spot for him at his position was determined, he was compared to other players across the board that were given a similar grade.

This is how players with similar grades are given hierarchy on some of the other team's draft board.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Great.    Good for you.

 

You found a * who made a fool of himself one way or the other.

 

If Randall goes in the first,  or another high round,  it's embarrassing that Miller had Randall as #181 up to about a week ago.

 

I'm not sure how Miller saves face with this one.....

 

But if this is Wig's idea of "momentum" he can have it.....

 

 

What's a high round?  Mel Kiper released a draft where he 'played GM' for each NFL team on making picks (through round 3).  D. Randall went at pick #80 in round 3 to the Chiefs.

 

BTW, his three for the Colts?

 

Round 1 (29) OT Ereck Flowers, Miami (FL)

Round 2 (61) DE Danielle Hunter, LSU

Round 3 (93) CB Josh Shaw, USC

[NewColtsFan]

What's a high round?  Mel Kiper released a draft where he 'played GM' for each NFL team on making picks (through round 3).  D. Randall went at pick #80 in round 3 to the Chiefs.

 

BTW, his three for the Colts?

 

Round 1 (29) OT Ereck Flowers, Miami (FL)

Round 2 (61) DE Danielle Hunter, LSU

Round 3 (93) CB Josh Shaw, USC

 

I saw this....   I appear to be one of the few here who actually reads ESPN.com every day....

 

To me a high round would be rounds 1-3.  

 

Mid rounds are 4-5

 

Low rounds are 6-7

 

To be clear:  I like Randall.   I'd like the Colts to draft him in the 2nd.   I've mocked him to the Colts in the 2nd and say I hope we get him.     I just don't like him in the first.    I think it's a big reach there.        There are a number of players I really like but not as first rounders.     For those, if the Colts like them,  I hope we trade back,  get a #4 from some team and take the player toward the top of the 2nd.

[NewColtsFan]

You're acting like a child.

He should be embarrassed that he had him ranked where everyone else did and was the first to move him up into the first? If Randall goes in the first, and he was the first to predict it, that should be a point of shame? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

 

Do you actually follow this stuff?     Or do you make it up as you go along?

 

NO ONE has Randall in the 6th round.    NO ONE!     Hello?!?!   (Or, for you,  no one who knows what they're talking about.)

 

He's got 2nd to 3rd round grades everywhere.    ESPN,  NFL.com and CBS Sports com.  

 

As I noted,  ranked 181st is simply ridiculous.    That's the embarrassing part.

 

Odds are Matt Miller caught wind from someone in the NFL that Randall's stock is rising and he could go in the 1st.

 

I'm just not impressed that a guy who is a website's lead NFL writer and who takes the time to rank players out into the hundreds, first has a player at 181st and now moves him into the first round.

 

To me,  the guy lacks credibility.    If he gets it right, I'm not giving him much credit.  

 

He didn't just have it wrong -- he was spectacularly wrong.   181st?

 

As to making personal comments like calling me a "child"....     if you want to get personal,  just a polite reminder that it can go both ways.   You have no idea how often you lead with your chin and beg to be hit.    You get what you give.....

[wig]

Do you actually follow this stuff? Or do you make it up as you go along?

NO ONE has Randall in the 6th round. NO ONE! Hello?!?! (Or, for you, no one who knows what they're talking about.)

He's got 2nd to 3rd round grades everywhere. ESPN, NFL.com and CBS Sports com.

As I noted, ranked 181st is simply ridiculous. That's the embarrassing part.

Odds are Matt Miller caught wind from someone in the NFL that Randall's stock is rising and he could go in the 1st.

I'm just not impressed that a guy who is a website's lead NFL writer and who takes the time to rank players out into the hundreds, first has a player at 181st and now moves him into the first round.

To me, the guy lacks credibility. If he gets it right, I'm not giving him much credit.

He didn't just have it wrong -- he was spectacularly wrong. 181st?

As to making personal comments like calling me a "child".... if you want to get personal, just a polite reminder that it can go both ways. You have no idea how often you lead with your chin and beg to be hit. You get what you give.....

Show me who had a second round grade on him a few weeks after the season ended. He had steadily risen since the season ended and is now making big jumps.

One of your favorites, ESPN, had Holliman as the second best safety for a while after the season. What's the difference?

[Superman]

I don't understand the objection to changing your grades/ratings on players. It seems normal to me. Players get moved down all the time. Someone has to move up to take their place. And not only that, but if you watch film and decide a player isn't as good as you initially thought -- which is a good thing to realize -- why can't you watch film and gain more appreciation for a player over time? Or should everyone set their ratings in February, and refuse to change them? 

[NewColtsFan]

Show me who had a second round grade on him a few weeks after the season ended. He had steadily risen since the season ended and is now making big jumps.

One of your favorites, ESPN, had Holliman as the second best safety for a while after the season. What's the difference?

 

The rankings that I'm dealing with are the rankings that come out after the combine.

 

But I gave you the three websites that have Randall's rankings....   ESPN, (Scouts Inc has a 3rd round grade)  NFL.com has a 2nd/3rd round grade as does CBS Sports.com

 

As I've said repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere,  no one sees the same thing the same way as someone else.   There's plenty of room for disagreement on every player.     When the Cowboys took Travis Frederick, the big Wisconsin center 30th overall, they were pretty much laughed at by everyone for over-drafting him.   Most felt he was a 2nd or 3rd round pick.    The Cowboys are getting the last laugh on that.

 

But there's a different between debating the difference between 1st and 3rd picks and 1st and 6th round picks.

 

By the way,  you've yet to show me any "momentum"...   I asked you said you'd look....   the only thing that's been presented is Matt Miller of Bleacher Report by Dustin.      Otherwise,  nothing from you.

 

I've been offering the top websites in the industry...

[wig]

The rankings that I'm dealing with are the rankings that come out after the combine.

But I gave you the three websites that have Randall's rankings.... ESPN, (Scouts Inc has a 3rd round grade) NFL.com has a 2nd/3rd round grade as does CBS Sports.com

As I've said repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere, no one sees the same thing the same way as someone else. There's plenty of room for disagreement on every player. When the Cowboys took Travis Frederick, the big Wisconsin center 30th overall, they were pretty much laughed at by everyone for over-drafting him. Most felt he was a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The Cowboys are getting the last laugh on that.

But there's a different between debating the difference between 1st and 3rd picks and 1st and 6th round picks.

By the way, you've yet to show me any "momentum"... I asked you said you'd look.... the only thing that's been presented is Matt Miller of Bleacher Report by Dustin. Otherwise, nothing from you.

I've been offering the top websites in the industry...

Dustin supplied you with a perfect example of what I said and all you did was discredit the person because he doesn't write for one of the three sites you read and base all your opinions off of. If you think I'm going to spend a second doing the same so you can say you don't respect the person. . .

[Gavin]

Nothing wrong with switching your rankings by a round or 2, But 3 or more is to much, Better players can be had for us when its our turn to pick in the 2nd, I can see a player going from a 5th to a 3, Or maybe 6 to a 3

[Superman]

Dustin supplied you with a perfect example of what I said and all you did was discredit the person because he doesn't write for one of the three sites you read and base all your opinions off of. If you think I'm going to spend a second doing the same so you can say you don't respect the person. . .

 

Mayock now ranks Randall as his top safety, but Mayock hasn't done a mock yet. I'm waiting for that before counting Mayock among those who think Randall will go in the first. He might not think any safeties are worthy of a first round pick.

 

To this point, I've only seen Miller say Randall is potentially a first rounder. And I think that's a combination of Randall is pretty good, the Colts "reportedly" like him, and the Colts need a safety. I still think it's a stretch.

[Superman]

Nothing wrong with switching your rankings by a round or 2, But 3 or more is to much, Better players can be had for us when its our turn to pick in the 2nd, I can see a player going from a 5th to a 3, Or maybe 6 to a 3

 

To me, I don't think it matters. You watch a guy in January and say "ehh, he's a 5th rounder," but you work your way back around to him in a few weeks, watch more film, start ranking your entire board and taking into consideration health and workouts whatnot, and if a guy has moved from 150 to 50, then so be it. I don't think a good evaluator holds himself hostage to his previous opinions. You don't say "I called him a 5th rounder originally, I'll move him up to the 4th, but not the 2nd." Just call it like you see it.

[wig]

Mayock now ranks Randall as his top safety, but Mayock hasn't done a mock yet. I'm waiting for that before counting Mayock among those who think Randall will go in the first. He might not think any safeties are worthy of a first round pick.

To this point, I've only seen Miller say Randall is potentially a first rounder. And I think that's a combination of Randall is pretty good, the Colts "reportedly" like him, and the Colts need a safety. I still think it's a stretch.

We're more or less on the same page. After watching and reading everything available on him, I don't think he's a good value pick but I don't think it's egregious, either.

My dream, but realistic first two rounds, are Kendricks and Ekpre-Olomu. Followed by Anderson (might have to move up to the middle of the round, Buck Allen and then Tony Lippett. I would start Lippett at corner and hope he succeeds, but wouldn't be afraid to move him to the fourth receiver spot.

[Colts_Fan12]

We're more or less on the same page. After watching and reading everything available on him, I don't think he's a good value pick but I don't think it's egregious, either.

My dream, but realistic first two rounds, are Kendricks and Ekpre-Olomu. Followed by Anderson (might have to move up to the middle of the round, Buck Allen and then Tony Lippett. I would start Lippett at corner and hope he succeeds, but wouldn't be afraid to move him to the fourth receiver spot.

I hope we would get Kendricks but I don't think Grigs sees it as that big a need right now but ill still hope for him

[Gavin]

To me, I don't think it matters. You watch a guy in January and say "ehh, he's a 5th rounder," but you work your way back around to him in a few weeks, watch more film, start ranking your entire board and taking into consideration health and workouts whatnot, and if a guy has moved from 150 to 50, then so be it. I don't think a good evaluator holds himself hostage to his previous opinions. You don't say "I called him a 5th rounder originally, I'll move him up to the 4th, but not the 2nd." Just call it like you see it.

See that's just to big of a jump for my liking, That's almost a middle of the 5th to just past the mid 2nd, I mean when you take into account health then sure that's the ultimate X factor and I can see a jump like that that would shuffle your board and lower a player somewhere else. Ultimately I think you take player X (Randall for example) where you see him and not where others do, Its your job that's on the line (meaning the GM).....I personally don't see Randall as a 1st rounder or even 2nd rounder, I think 3rd or 4th, But I rank players based on the old NFL.com rating system based on position traits needed and production http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012/profiles/andrew-luck?id=2533031

[pacolts56]

You asked for another person who moved him up high. Did I not give you the answer you wanted?

 

 

Great.    Good for you.

 

You found a * who made a fool of himself one way or the other.

 

If Randall goes in the first,  or another high round,  it's embarrassing that Miller had Randall as #181 up to about a week ago.

 

I'm not sure how Miller saves face with this one.....

 

But if this is Wig's idea of "momentum" he can have it.....

 

 

You're acting like a child.

He should be embarrassed that he had him ranked where everyone else did and was the first to move him up into the first? If Randall goes in the first, and he was the first to predict it, that should be a point of shame? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound right now?

 

 

The rankings that I'm dealing with are the rankings that come out after the combine.

 

But I gave you the three websites that have Randall's rankings....   ESPN, (Scouts Inc has a 3rd round grade)  NFL.com has a 2nd/3rd round grade as does CBS Sports.com

 

As I've said repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere,  no one sees the same thing the same way as someone else.   There's plenty of room for disagreement on every player.     When the Cowboys took Travis Frederick, the big Wisconsin center 30th overall, they were pretty much laughed at by everyone for over-drafting him.   Most felt he was a 2nd or 3rd round pick.    The Cowboys are getting the last laugh on that.

 

But there's a different between debating the difference between 1st and 3rd picks and 1st and 6th round picks.

 

By the way,  you've yet to show me any "momentum"...   I asked you said you'd look....   the only thing that's been presented is Matt Miller of Bleacher Report by Dustin.      Otherwise,  nothing from you.

 

I've been offering the top websites in the industry...

 

 

Dustin supplied you with a perfect example of what I said and all you did was discredit the person because he doesn't write for one of the three sites you read and base all your opinions off of. If you think I'm going to spend a second doing the same so you can say you don't respect the person. . .

 

 

 

[Superman]

See that's just to big of a jump for my liking, That's almost a middle of the 5th to just past the mid 2nd, I mean when you take into account health then sure that's the ultimate X factor and I can see a jump like that that would shuffle your board and lower a player somewhere else. Ultimately I think you take player X (Randall for example) where you see him and not where others do, Its your job that's on the line (meaning the GM).....I personally don't see Randall as a 1st rounder or even 2nd rounder, I think 3rd or 4th

 

I'm just saying I don't care about how big the jump is. If that's where your evaluations are leading you, so be it. The process should lead you to the result, not the other way around.

[NewColtsFan]

Dustin supplied you with a perfect example of what I said and all you did was discredit the person because he doesn't write for one of the three sites you read and base all your opinions off of. If you think I'm going to spend a second doing the same so you can say you don't respect the person. . .

 

In other words,  you couldn't find anyone else.     There is NO momentum that you spoke of.

 

And, I'll end this conversation with this observation....    your spectacular hypocrisy.

 

Over the past few weeks and months you have openly mocked and belittled posters here over their view that they have some idea of what round-value a player might have simply based on the views of what they read on the internet.

 

You've said on several occasions that no one knows what's going on inside the war room of these teams,  and the guys who write about it just don't much....

 

And now we fast forward to now...   someone writes Randall is now a first round pick.   Posters like me and others are -- to say the least -- highly skeptical.

 

And now you're the one using the internet rumblings of people (Mayock and Miller) to back your point.

 

When it suits your purpose,  these people know nothing.   And when it suits your purpose, you cite them as proof of whatever point you're trying to make.

 

I said in another post you have no idea how often you lead with your chin.    Don't look now,  but you've been flattened.

[wig]

In other words, you couldn't find anyone else. There is NO momentum that you spoke of.

And, I'll end this conversation with this observation.... your spectacular hypocrisy.

Over the past few weeks and months you have openly mocked and belittled posters here over their view that they have some idea of what round-value a player might have simply based on the views of what they read on the internet.

You've said on several occasions that no one knows what's going on inside the war room of these teams, and the guys who write about it just don't much....

And now we fast forward to now... someone writes Randall is now a first round pick. Posters like me and others are -- to say the least -- highly skeptical.

And now you're the one using the internet rumblings of people (Mayock and Miller) to back your point.

When it suits your purpose, these people know nothing. And when it suits your purpose, you cite them as proof of whatever point you're trying to make.

I said in another post you have no idea how often you lead with your chin. Don't look now, but you've been flattened.

No, in the words that I said.

If you would notice, I don't talk about Abby prospect with ultimate conviction unless he's someone that I've seen every college snap of, know what kind of teammate he is,know what he does in the community, etc. I do this because I know that setting an opinion with 20% of the information, and not being flexible on that opinion is simply ignorant. Therefore, I'll use all information fire discussion, but will also always refer back to the people with ALL resources available to them.

If that makes you feel like you hit me with some mythical internet punch, good, because you obviously need that in your life.

[NewColtsFan]

No, in the words that I said.

If you would notice, I don't talk about Abby prospect with ultimate conviction unless he's someone that I've seen every college snap of, know what kind of teammate he is,know what he does in the community, etc. I do this because I know that setting an opinion with 20% of the information, and not being flexible on that opinion is simply ignorant. Therefore, I'll use all information fire discussion, but will also always refer back to the people with ALL resources available to them.

If that makes you feel like you hit me with some mythical internet punch, good, because you obviously need that in your life.

 

Tell you what......

 

Let's just keep this as simple as we can....

 

Let's just agree to disagree and keep it at that.

 

If you'd like to "ignore" me,  I wont take offense.....

[Deathiltis]

Randall is so bad

[jvan1973]

The rankings that I'm dealing with are the rankings that come out after the combine.

But I gave you the three websites that have Randall's rankings.... ESPN, (Scouts Inc has a 3rd round grade) NFL.com has a 2nd/3rd round grade as does CBS Sports.com

As I've said repeatedly in this thread and elsewhere, no one sees the same thing the same way as someone else. There's plenty of room for disagreement on every player. When the Cowboys took Travis Frederick, the big Wisconsin center 30th overall, they were pretty much laughed at by everyone for over-drafting him. Most felt he was a 2nd or 3rd round pick. The Cowboys are getting the last laugh on that.

But there's a different between debating the difference between 1st and 3rd picks and 1st and 6th round picks.

By the way, you've yet to show me any "momentum"... I asked you said you'd look.... the only thing that's been presented is Matt Miller of Bleacher Report by Dustin. Otherwise, nothing from you.

I've been offering the top websites in the industry...

Oddly enough, reports from Dallas say the cowboys have Randall as their #1 safety as well

[Superman]

Been watching all this Damarious Randall lately, but DB just put out a new Landon Collins cut-up, from the Arkansas game in 2014. I still think Collins is better than Randall, and he shows some coverage range and play making ability in this game. He's no Ed Reed or even Devin McCourty, but I think he'll be a good pro.

[Dustin]

There's at least one NFL team that rates Damarious Randall as a better prospect than Jimmie Ward a year ago, who was a 1st rounder (#49ers)

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler)

April 23, 2015

[NewColtsFan]

There's at least one NFL team that rates Damarious Randall as a better prospect than Jimmie Ward a year ago, who was a 1st rounder (#49ers)

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler)

April 23, 2015

 

I have to follow my own advice which I preach here all the time...

 

Everyone sees the same thing differently.

 

Now,  that doesn't mean everyone is right...   only that it's all in the eye of the beholder and we all see the same thing differently.

 

I think there's no chance that after the first two rounds of the draft,  only three safeties will be taken.   I just don't see that happening.    So, I expect guys that I don't have ranked as high will somehow get taken in Rs 1 and 2...

 

And it wouldn't surprise me if Kendricks gets taken in the first round.   He's a play maker and the best cover linebacker in the draft.    That's worth something.     He's got a high 2nd round grade from me,  but I won't complain if he goes in the first,  he's got some first round skill about him.

 

This is a fun time of year....   I just hope on Sunday the 3rd,  Colts' fans are happy with the draft..........

[Gavin]

There's at least one NFL team that rates Damarious Randall as a better prospect than Jimmie Ward a year ago, who was a 1st rounder (#49ers)

— Dane Brugler (@dpbrugler)

April 23, 2015

Probably the same team that rated a Punter as a 3rd round prospect...Jags

[Superman]

I just hope on Sunday the 3rd,  Colts' fans are happy with the draft..........

 

Some will be. Others will be livid.

 

"It's the most wonderful time of the year..."

[Dustin]

Don't be surprised to hear ASU S Damarious Randall's name called Thursday night. Source close to his camp thinks "it's a lock". #NFLDraft

— Luke Easterling (@LukeEasterling)

April 28, 2015

 

@LukeEasterling

Don't be surprised to hear ASU S Damarious Randall's name called Thursday night. Source close to his camp thinks "it's a lock". #NFLDraft

[Rhane19]

nothing is a lock in the NFL draft

[chad72]

Dustin, where is your draft contest entry?

[Deano1818]

I see him as mid second round pick.......

 

In the same range as t Coleman......

[pgt_rob]

I see him as mid second round pick.......

 

In the same range as t Coleman......

 

He is a great player but I think Landon Collins MAY be a better player out of the two. I would be happy with either. Wouldn't it be nice if he fell slightly in the 2nd to our pick? Landon Collins in the 1st and Damarious Randall in the 2nd?

[Dustin]

Hearing D. Randall ahead of Landon Collins is a possibility tomorrow night. There are teams with Randall ahead on their board

— Lance Zierlein (@LanceZierlein)

April 30, 2015

[NewColtsFan]

Hearing D. Randall ahead of Landon Collins is a possibility tomorrow night. There are teams with Randall ahead on their board

— Lance Zierlein (@LanceZierlein)

April 30, 2015

 

"Need" is a terrible judge of talent.

 

If Collins is now a 2nd round pick -- OK.

 

But if Randall is now a 1st round pick,  then I think "need" is outweighing tape.....

[Dustin]

Two safeties who will go higher than most think: #Louisville’s James Sample & #ASU’s Damarious Randle. So few available at this position

— Ian Rapoport (@RapSheet)

April 30, 2015

[Archer]

"Need" is a terrible judge of talent.

 

If Collins is now a 2nd round pick -- OK.

 

But if Randall is now a 1st round pick,  then I think "need" is outweighing tape.....

 

True, but you can't always let "tape" outweigh potential.  Some players' best football is ahead of them, and Randall has the workouts to prove his athleticism and the demeanor/work ethic to improve.  I think GMs try hard not to stretch too far for need, and I think Randall's rise is more related to his potential and athletic traits.