in order to compete we need to..........

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

1. Cut/bench Lance Louis

2. Get Doyle more involved in the te rotation

3.run to the left!!!!!!

4.give A. Jackson the majority of the passing down reps

5. Play press man

6.create packages for Cribbs (nows the time to do it)

7.be INTELLIGENTLY aggressive

8. Play Sergio deep on passing downs/use Landry to blitz

9.catch the freaking football! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10. Let Andrew run the ball (read option)

[Hoosiernsavga]

11. pray real hard.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Lol that shouldve been #1

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Oh yea I forgot #12. Start Jonathan Newsome

[12isthenew18]

Newsome > Werner

[bestQBever]

1. Cut/bench Lance Louis

2. Get Doyle more involved in the te rotation

3.run to the left!!!!!!

4.give A. Jackson the majority of the passing down reps

5. Play press man

6.create packages for Cribbs (nows the time to do it)

7.be INTELLIGENTLY aggressive

8. Play Sergio deep on passing downs/use Landry to blitz

9.catch the freaking football! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10. Let Andrew run the ball (read option)

I agree with #10. We need to throw that play in a few times a game to keep the defense on their toes. That way the shotgun runs can also be more effective.

[Surge89]

1. Cut/bench Lance Louis

2. Get Doyle more involved in the te rotation

3.run to the left!!!!!!

4.give A. Jackson the majority of the passing down reps

5. Play press man

6.create packages for Cribbs (nows the time to do it)

7.be INTELLIGENTLY aggressive

8. Play Sergio deep on passing downs/use Landry to blitz

9.catch the freaking football! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10. Let Andrew run the ball (read option)

1. Lance Louis starts? Since when?

2. Who'd you like to take out to put more Doyle? We have 2 greatly talented TE's. I'd say we have a good balance between them.

3. Completely agree but how about more attempts and a commitment to it. Unlike most others I actually like the play calling of last year with the heavy run game plans. Because there was a commitment to run it. Still need to find the balance but I'd lean more to last year in play calling.

4. I don't have enough info for this one.

5. I actually would like more balance to zone if we are going to blitz so heavily.

6. ...no...

7. Err not sure what you are alluding to so I can't really comment

8. I sort of wish Landry would just sit... but it's whatever the talent is all about equal.

9. Of course :-)

10. Wth? Why? So he can get hurt like Manziel or jump at every rusher Ala RG3? Maybe fumble more than he already has? No lord no, if anything Luck's needs to do less and tone the interceptions down.

[TrueColt!]

We need to just play football man. It's annoying to see us go out there and look unprepared. I don't like our coaches and some other stuff about us but that has nothing to do with effort. We can win the Bowl. We just have to friggin play. We are always unprepared.

[Mr.Debonair]

is Werner better against the run?

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

1. Lance Louis starts? Since when? He's started the last 2 games at rg

2. Who'd you like to take out to put more Doyle? We have 2 greatly talented TE's. I'd say we have a good balance between them. Not saying for him to replace anyone but he should def play more

3. Completely agree but how about more attempts and a commitment to it. Unlike most others I actually like the play calling of last year with the heavy run game plans. Because there was a commitment to run it. Still need to find the balance but I'd lean more to last year in play calling. Truth

4. I don't have enough info for this one. Just notice how every team picks on dq he's a liability in pass D

5. I actually would like more balance to zone if we are going to blitz so heavily. That's what got us killed in pit

6. ...no... He's a weapon... We should use him

7. Err not sure what you are alluding to so I can't really comment. It's possible to be tough abs aggressive without being stupid

8. I sort of wish Landry would just sit... but it's whatever the talent is all about equal.

9. Of course :-)

10. Wth? Why? So he can get hurt like Manziel or jump at every rusher Ala RG3? Maybe fumble more than he already has? No lord no, if anything Luck's needs to do less and tone the interceptions down.

he's been crushed just sitting in the pocket.. We have no run game that's a good way to generate one. However I wasn't alluding to doing it as often

[ColtStronger]

1. Cut/bench Lance Louis

2. Get Doyle more involved in the te rotation

3.run to the left!!!!!!

4.give A. Jackson the majority of the passing down reps

5. Play press man

6.create packages for Cribbs (nows the time to do it)

7.be INTELLIGENTLY aggressive

8. Play Sergio deep on passing downs/use Landry to blitz

9.catch the freaking football! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

10. Let Andrew run the ball (read option)

Pretty much everything on my list also.  Hit the nail on the head.  Only difference is the Colts need to have less turnovers.  Also figure out the RG and C positions... FAST

 

I think the defense has been doing a little better job with the Brown/Landry mix though.  Andrew's read option plays (I only recall 3-4 all season) has worked out well, exception for some missed key blocks.  That's more lack of execution, and another problem on the offensive line.

 

Other than that I think the Colts are SB contenders now, but in the words of Chucky P, "We got some needs that need to be cleaned up.  We'll watch the film, and make the changes we need to."

[ColtStronger]

Newsome > Werner

Why hasn't people been bashing Werner like Trent?  Werner was a 1st round pick that wasn't traded for!!  It seems that when people have an eye on him he shows up for 2 games to get the monkey off his back, then the bear goes back into hibernation.  It's funny how that works huh.  He has even been on the team longer than Richardson... OK I'm on it, time to make a bash Werner thread lol

[pacolts56]

7. Err not sure what you are alluding to so I can't really comment

Maybe he meant stomp on the QBs leg when nobody's lookin!

[Superman]

is Werner better against the run?

By a country mile.

[Superman]

Why hasn't people been bashing Werner like Trent? Werner was a 1st round pick that wasn't traded for!! It seems that when people have an eye on him he shows up for 2 games to get the monkey off his back, then the bear goes back into hibernation. It's funny how that works huh. He has even been on the team longer than Richardson... OK I'm on it, time to make a bash Werner thread lol

Because Werner is actually a good player. He's just not a good pass rusher.

[krunk]

By a country mile.

 

 

Waaay better than Newsome against the run!  That's all I kept hearing during the Titans game "The OLB Newsome didn't quite get the edge sealed on that run"

[krunk]

If Werner somehow doesn't play in this one I expect to see more of Shaun Phillips on running downs.

[Superman]

Waaay better than Newsome against the run! That's all I kept hearing during the Titans game "The OLB Newsome didn't quite get the edge sealed on that run"

Newsome has never sealed an edge. He'd much rather shoot the gap and try to get to the ball carrier, which he's good at. But when it doesn't work, which is most of the time, you've exposed your teammates.

[Gavin]

If Werner somehow doesn't play in this one I expect to see more of Shaun Phillips on running downs.

If Werner don't play I would like Studebaker getting plenty of reps to, He has played well when called upon.

[UKCOLT17]

need a pass rush werner and walden dont do great for me both great at setting edge but  team struggles rushing the passer against good teams unless we blitz

[krunk]

If Werner don't play I would like Studebaker getting plenty of reps to, He has played well when called upon.

 

 

I forget about Studebaker at times.  Good player too

[backshoulderfade]

need a pass rush werner and walden dont do great for me both great at setting edge but team struggles rushing the passer against good teams unless we blitz

I think Walden has been solid, if not spectacular at rushing the passer at times this season. Him and Newsome should get the majority of passing downs.

[ColtStronger]

Because Werner is actually a good player. He's just not a good pass rusher.

I think he's okay.  Isn't a huge liability anywhere, and does step up every so often, but is in no way a good 1st round draft pick.  Newsome was 4th or 5th and is still a rookie but plays better.

[ColtStronger]

Newsome has never sealed an edge. He'd much rather shoot the gap and try to get to the ball carrier, which he's good at. But when it doesn't work, which is most of the time, you've exposed your teammates.

I guess that's partially the reason why Newsome makes plays in the backfield more than Werner, but you never really see Newsome making solid tackles like Werner beyond the LOS.

[Superman]

I guess that's partially the reason why Newsome makes plays in the backfield more than Werner, but you never really see Newsome making solid tackles like Werner beyond the LOS.

 

Werner has made several plays in the backfield against the run over the past couple months. Specific to the run, I don't agree that Newsome makes more plays.

 

I think he's okay.  Isn't a huge liability anywhere, and does step up every so often, but is in no way a good 1st round draft pick.  Newsome was 4th or 5th and is still a rookie but plays better.

 

That's fine. There's a difference between being really bad, like Richardson has been, and being decent to good, like Werner has been. He wasn't a good first rounder, but I don't see why that matters at this point. Most people are done complaining about the first rounder for Richardson; now it's about the fact that he's a bad running back.

[Jason_]

Oh yea I forgot #12. Start Jonathan Newsome

 

no

 

Newsome > Werner

 

and no. 

 

Newsome is a better pure speed pass rusher but that's it.  Werner is the far better overall OLB and will get the start, as he should.  Newsome will still get plenty of playing time though, especially on passing downs as an edge rusher.  He doesn't have to be listed as the starter to get plenty of playing time.

 

 

I think he's okay.  Isn't a huge liability anywhere, and does step up every so often, but is in no way a good 1st round draft pick.  Newsome was 4th or 5th and is still a rookie but plays better.

 

and no...no he doesn't.  as I said, he's a better edge rusher but that's it.

[BOTT]

Why hasn't people been bashing Werner like Trent?  Werner was a 1st round pick that wasn't traded for!!  It seems that when people have an eye on him he shows up for 2 games to get the monkey off his back, then the bear goes back into hibernation.  It's funny how that works huh.  He has even been on the team longer than Richardson... OK I'm on it, time to make a bash Werner thread lol

There were a couple threads about Werner early in the season

Not a big fan of Werner, but he does contribute and can be a solid player......Trent, on the other hand, simply stinks.

[ColtStronger]

There were a couple threads about Werner early in the season

Not a big fan of Werner, but he does contribute and can be a solid player......Trent, on the other hand, simply stinks.

I know about the threads earlier in the season, then he had 2 good games back to back, so all of the critics disappeared.  He really hasn't had a standout game since.  With the absence of Mathis, Werner was expected to step up and fill that role, since he was a 1st round pick.  I just havent seen that type of value from him. 

 

Going off topic, but Trent's YPC stinks, but his blitz recognition/pickup, and hands out of the backfield are fine.  Hard to believe but he does contribute.  Neither IMO are terrible, but definitely could be better.

[BOTT]

I know about the threads earlier in the season, then he had 2 good games back to back, so all of the critics disappeared.  He really hasn't had a standout game since.  With the absence of Mathis, Werner was expected to step up and fill that role, since he was a 1st round pick.  I just havent seen that type of value from him. 

 

Going off topic, but Trent's YPC stinks, but his blitz recognition/pickup, and hands out of the backfield are fine.  Hard to believe but he does contribute.  Neither IMO are terrible, but definitely could be better.

I think the difference is Werner is a disappointing draft pick, hardly a rarity, and Richardson was traded for even after seeing his nfl tape....which was not impressive. While not a fan of Werner I understand why the colts drafted him, trading for Richardson boggled my mind and I said so at the time.

[Surge89]

no

 

 

and no. 

 

Newsome is a better pure speed pass rusher but that's it.  Werner is the far better overall OLB and will get the start, as he should.  Newsome will still get plenty of playing time though, especially on passing downs as an edge rusher.  He doesn't have to be listed as the starter to get plenty of playing time.

 

 

 

and no...no he doesn't.  as I said, he's a better edge rusher but that's it.

 

Logic?!? that has no place here... cmon man this is a Colts forum     

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

no

and no.

Newsome is a better pure speed pass rusher but that's it. Werner is the far better overall OLB and will get the start, as he should. Newsome will still get plenty of playing time though, especially on passing downs as an edge rusher. He doesn't have to be listed as the starter to get plenty of playing time.

and no...no he doesn't. as I said, he's a better edge rusher but that's it.

your exactly right about werner being better overall olb but that's exactly why Newsome should start at Rush linebacker and have werner sub for both positions since he's good at both but not exceptional at either

[Superman]

your exactly right about werner being better overall olb but that's exactly why Newsome should start at Rush linebacker and have werner sub for both positions since he's good at both but not exceptional at either

 

That's the opposite of what they should do. At this point, Newsome is a pass rush specialist, and that's it. 

[ColtStronger]

Werner has made several plays in the backfield against the run over the past couple months. Specific to the run, I don't agree that Newsome makes more plays.

 

 

That's fine. There's a difference between being really bad, like Richardson has been, and being decent to good, like Werner has been. He wasn't a good first rounder, but I don't see why that matters at this point. Most people are done complaining about the first rounder for Richardson; now it's about the fact that he's a bad running back.

I'm not trying to get on Werners case, but I feel like he does enough just to get by.  Especially with Mathis out and what we gave up for Bjoern, he hasn't come close to what he SHOULD be.  Newsome has 6.5 sacks being a rookie (2nd highest this year).  If a rookie is carrying the load that a little more experienced 1st rounder does, there is a problem.  Werner gets more snaps than Newsome also.  We need Werner as a monster pass rusher more than a solid tackler though.  Afterall we got him after Freeney left along with an aging Mathis.  Those 2 set the bar particularly high for anybody following in the footsteps.  Newsome forces fumbles (not just referring to last game), he has a couple other strip sacks. 

 

Some people may not be still talking about Richardson (I wish they would), but it's still a weekly debate, even in random threads.  Im sure you still see them all the time, because I do.  ALOT of people still talk about it, maybe not most.  Yes, we all know Richardson isn't what he should be, but what would our offense be like with little Boom Herron back behind Andrew picking up the blitz.  You think he doesn't have a pocket now?  I couldn't imagine if Trent wasn't back there.  So his role in that aspect is very important.  Werner on the other hand has 1 Forced Fumble (this season and career total) 4 sacks (6.5 on his career), and has another season on Newsome.  If Werner went out, it really wouldn't be a huge loss to the defense, and whether people would admit it or not, wouldn't be as devestating as losing Richardson (in the pass game).  Tipton and Herron are just too young.  Herron seems to think he can just clip a guy or get in the way and that gets the job done.  Tipton would be better, but I believe he is also a rookie and probably doesn't know the playbook or comfortable enough to get the job done.

[ColtStronger]

I think the difference is Werner is a disappointing draft pick, hardly a rarity, and Richardson was traded for even after seeing his nfl tape....which was not impressive. While not a fan of Werner I understand why the colts drafted him, trading for Richardson boggled my mind and I said so at the time.

Ya, I wished they would've drafted Eddie Lacey, but who am I to say.  At the time of the trade I think you would've been a huge minority of the population who didn't want him.  He really didn't do too bad his rookie season.  I wouldn't say 1st round talent, but alot of people drafted high don't live up to that expectation.  With Colts mindframe of having a power run game, and throwing him behind a horrible offensive line, kind of contradicts itself.  You can't expect a backup QB to come in and have a deadly arsenal eventhough a team could have a great WR corp.  Just ask Jay Cutler lol...  I just think fans would have a different opinion if they brought him in with a good line, or a line that doesn't allow a RB hit in the backfield 25% of the time.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

That's the opposite of what they should do. At this point, Newsome is a pass rush specialist, and that's it.

so is Robert Mathis but we wouldn't play him like a specialist.. Now I'm not saying Newsome is the pass rusher Mathis is, but he is indeed a threat and the best active source of a pass rush that we have now

[ColtStronger]

no

 

 

and no. 

 

Newsome is a better pure speed pass rusher but that's it.  Werner is the far better overall OLB and will get the start, as he should.  Newsome will still get plenty of playing time though, especially on passing downs as an edge rusher.  He doesn't have to be listed as the starter to get plenty of playing time.

 

 

 

and no...no he doesn't.  as I said, he's a better edge rusher but that's it.

What does Werner specialize in that would warrant a 1st round pick?  You're complaining that Newsome is only good at pass rushing, which is true, but did you also complain that, that's all Freeney was good for?  When did he ever stop the run?  He was always leaving his side of the line out to dry because his persistence at getting to the QB.  Exactly like Newsome!!  Newsome won't just get sacks but will force fumbles also.  Werner is good at setting the edge and keeping containment and making occasional tackles, how is more important than what Newsome does?

[ColtStronger]

your exactly right about werner being better overall olb but that's exactly why Newsome should start at Rush linebacker and have werner sub for both positions since he's good at both but not exceptional at either

That sounds a little more reasonable.  Newsome is a rookie, he needs play time... Werner hasn't answered his call yet, and hasn't stepped up to the plate in Mathis' absence.

[Superman]

I'm not trying to get on Werners case, but I feel like he does enough just to get by.  Especially with Mathis out and what we gave up for Bjoern, he hasn't come close to what he SHOULD be.  Newsome has 6.5 sacks being a rookie (2nd highest this year).  If a rookie is carrying the load that a little more experienced 1st rounder does, there is a problem.  Werner gets more snaps than Newsome also.  We need Werner as a monster pass rusher more than a solid tackler though.  Afterall we got him after Freeney left along with an aging Mathis.  Those 2 set the bar particularly high for anybody following in the footsteps.  Newsome forces fumbles (not just referring to last game), he has a couple other strip sacks. 

 

Some people may not be still talking about Richardson (I wish they would), but it's still a weekly debate, even in random threads.  Im sure you still see them all the time, because I do.  ALOT of people still talk about it, maybe not most.  Yes, we all know Richardson isn't what he should be, but what would our offense be like with little Boom Herron back behind Andrew picking up the blitz.  You think he doesn't have a pocket now?  I couldn't imagine if Trent wasn't back there.  So his role in that aspect is very important.  Werner on the other hand has 1 Forced Fumble (this season and career total) 4 sacks (6.5 on his career), and has another season on Newsome.  If Werner went out, it really wouldn't be a huge loss to the defense, and whether people would admit it or not, wouldn't be as devestating as losing Richardson (in the pass game).  Tipton and Herron are just too young.  Herron seems to think he can just clip a guy or get in the way and that gets the job done.  Tipton would be better, but I believe he is also a rookie and probably doesn't know the playbook or comfortable enough to get the job done.

 

My problem is with the bolded. We can sit here and wish for Werner to be something he's not, simply because of who he "replaced" and where he was drafted, or we can deploy him in the way that makes the most sense for what he's good at. Prior to this season, I was of the opinion that he needed to be a Rush backer, but he's clearly a Sam backer.

 

And no, I don't think it's good to draft a Sam backer in the first round, but again, it's over. He's a good player, he's just not the pass rusher we thought he'd be.

 

I particularly disagree with the thought that he only does enough to get by. Even if you're only viewing his pass rush, he's clearly a high effort player. And once you start looking at his work against the run and in coverage, it's very obvious that he's done a good job.

 

I agree that Richardson is the best pass blocker among our backs. And he's not bad as a receiver out of the backfield, can even make people miss in space. But as a runner, he's been bad, and there's little hope for the future. I don't know why we should continue talking about how bad the trade was; again, everyone knows it was bad, and it's over now. Time to move on.

[Superman]

so is Robert Mathis but we wouldn't play him like a specialist.. Now I'm not saying Newsome is the pass rusher Mathis is, but he is indeed a threat and the best active source of a pass rush that we have now

 

Not true. Mathis is far better against the run than Newsome, which is really saying something about how undisciplined Newsome is. 

 

And understand before anyone gets carried away, I am and have been a huge fan of Newsome's. I think he can be a special pass rusher. But he's young and raw, and his role needs to be specially catered in order to prevent him from being exploited in the run game. If you start him in place of either Werner or Walden, the run defense would suffer. 

[Jason_]

What does Werner specialize in that would warrant a 1st round pick?  You're complaining that Newsome is only good at pass rushing, which is true, but did you also complain that, that's all Freeney was good for?  When did he ever stop the run?    He was always leaving his side of the line out to dry because his persistence at getting to the QB.

 

First, I'm not complaining that Newsome is only good at pass rushing.  He's a rookie 5th round draft pick.  All things considered, I'm very happy with what he's done so far.  That, however, does not mean he is currently a good all around OLB because he is not.  And yes, I did say the same things about Freeney.  However with Freeney, that was more a product of the system he was playing in.  He wasn't asked to stop the run.  He was asked to go after the QB each and every down.

 

 

 Exactly like Newsome!!  Newsome won't just get sacks but will force fumbles also.

 

And that's great...that's why he should be used as a pass rush specialist right now, and not as an every down OLB because he is not an every down OLB at this point in his career. 

 

 

 Werner is good at setting the edge and keeping containment and making occasional tackles, how is more important than what Newsome does?

 

Werner is also better in coverage.  That, along with his far better ability against the run, makes him a much better every down OLB.  Werner can do everything we ask of an OLB. He's not as good of a speed rusher, but he can still rush the passer and get pressure.