A statistical comparison of some of the league's notable cornerbacks.

[OffensivelyPC]

That's convincing.

Just being objective.

[OffensivelyPC]

You're trolling with your response. In fact, you people have been just as guilty of that as you claim I am.

Absolutely none of my responses to you should be a surprise at this point.  We had a couple of normal conversations until some Vontae Davis article popped up and you couldn't handle the fact that someone thought Vontae was even close to Sherman's level.  In response, you called the entire colts fanbase bias, homers and everything else and just kept saying you were the only objective one in the room.  So if your opinion is that we're trolling you, it's only because you brought it on yoruself.  We have normal conversatiosn with fans from other teams...but apparently that's not possible with seahawks fans. 

[Dustin]

One thing that also confuses me a bit with PFF is that they release their weekly info prior to when the all-22 film is normally available for each game. I know they used to use Game Rewind (saw an interview with the founder a couple of years back) and am not sure how they did their job with just that. Does anyone know if they get the all-22 earlier in the week or something? 

 

They put out their gardes before the all-22 and then adjust the grades after they watch the all-22. Like, how Luck, and Davis' grades for last game significantly went up and Bjoern Werner's went down.

 

Any grades, stats are typically uselss until they are adjusted on Wednsday/Thursday.

[OffensivelyPC]

The results of this aren't too surprising. A lot of you guys have been telling the rest of us that Davis has been much better than he's gotten credit for, and I can say - at least for myself - that I've listened. I wasn't that impressed with him in Miami but obviously he's been very productive and effective for Indy. 

 

The only problem I have with data from PFF is how people take it as gospel. Try to keep in mind there are still subjective factors at play with their stats. The main weakness is that they are judging each play for each player based on an assumed job or assignment, and how well they did that job. Sometimes that's obvious but other times it's not. There are still judgment calls and of course  the PFF guys watching game film over in the UK (where they're based) don't know what "Player A" was actually supposed to do on any given play. 

 

One thing that also confuses me a bit with PFF is that they release their weekly info prior to when the all-22 film is normally available for each game. I know they used to use Game Rewind (saw an interview with the founder a couple of years back) and am not sure how they did their job with just that. Does anyone know if they get the all-22 earlier in the week or something? 

 

Overall their info is good, don't get me wrong. It's useful and interesting stuff. But it's not infallible and is subject to possible errors, as well as slanted judgment calls by the (probably cricket and soccer fan) guys that work for them reviewing games and gathering stats. 

That is something that is acknowledged quite frequently really.  Of course you can't stop anyone from touting the stat as if it was end all be all.  But when the only people who know what Player A's assignment is are the people who have the playbook, PFF (and other stats) and the All-22 is about the best anyone has. 

 

Also, I don't know if they get the All-22, but there are several teams that contract with PFF for their data, so I would imagine they probably do get some film before most.  Perhaps not the All-22, but film from the teams directly.

[thedude]

Absolutely none of my responses to you should be a surprise at this point. 

Where do I claim to be surprised? In fact I'm not surprised at all.

[thedude]

  In response, you called the entire colts fanbase bias, homers and everything else

You'll need to show me where I did any name calling. I sure don't remember that.

[OffensivelyPC]

Where do I claim to be surprised? In fact I'm not surprised at all.

And you shouldn't be, which is why I said it.

[UKCOLT17]

Andrew Siciliano        ✔ @AndrewSiciliano

Follow

CB passer rating allowed: Best - Vontae Davis: 12.3 Worst - Captain Munnerlyn: 149.2 via @nflnetwork research

6:06 PM - 8 Oct 2014

Retweeted by Tom James

 

 

 

how do u not bench a guy whos playing that bad 

[OffensivelyPC]

You'll need to show me where I did any name calling. I sure don't remember that.

Again, I'm not going to waste my time pulling out all the passive agressive comments indicting everyone for being bias or a homer.  It's a waste of my time and you'd be dismissive of it anyway like you have been everytime someone calls you out on it. 

[GoPats]

They put out their gardes before the all-22 and then adjust the grades after they watch the all-22. Like, how Luck, and Davis' grades for last game significantly went up and Bjoern Werner's went down.

 

Any grades, stats are typically uselss until they are adjusted on Wednsday/Thursday.

 

 

That is something that is acknowledged quite frequently really.  Of course you can't stop anyone from touting the stat as if it was end all be all.  But when the only people who know what Player A's assignment is are the people who have the playbook, PFF (and other stats) and the All-22 is about the best anyone has. 

 

Also, I don't know if they get the All-22, but there are several teams that contract with PFF for their data, so I would imagine they probably do get some film before most.  Perhaps not the All-22, but film from the teams directly.

 

Good info, thank you guys. 

[BlueCollarColts]

Why would anyone here take " my side"? That comment has zero impact. I don't give any merit to the argument which puts Vontae Davis as one of the very best CB's in the NFL because he isn't. No one other than a Colts fan agrees that he is either.

There are several teams where he'd be either a back up, or a nickel back. If he was a top CB, he'd be a shoe-in as a starter anywhere.

He would be a shoe in starter anywhere, I'm not sure if you know this, but it might help to actually watch Davis play.... Just a suggestion because its painfully obvious you haven't. 

[B~Town]

Look at this guy, he has literally spent the better part of 3 weeks, if not a more accurate measure of at least 10 hours, of his life making useless, uninformed drivel and showing his intentness on everyone being aware of his overbearing ignorance. I don't know why you people try to argue with him. It's like hitting a punching bag. Does nothing to it, and the bag is still an immobile sack and blissfully unaware.

Hey at least he's good for a laugh when you need it  Just go look at the list of better CB than Davis he posted in the tread that was locked it's full of guys allowing tons of yards TDs over 100 passer ratings even a guy who got benched .

[thedude]

He would be a shoe in starter anywhere, I'm not sure if you know this, but it might help to actually watch Davis play.... Just a suggestion because its painfully obvious you haven't.

What?

[BlueCollarColts]

What?

Which part are you confused on?

[thedude]

Vontae Davis would be a starter anywhere? Even you don't believe that b

[jvan1973]

Vontae Davis would be a starter anywhere? Even you don't believe that b

He would be a starter on any team in the league. Who is playing better than him this season?

[BlueCollarColts]

Vontae Davis would be a starter anywhere? Even you don't believe that b

Anyone who knows anything about football knows that.... Name a team he wouldn't start on. Oh wait, i'm talking to the guy who thinks Morris Claiborne is better than Davis, that explains it. 

[OffensivelyPC]

He would be a starter on any team in the league. Who is playing better than him this season?

Use 3 and 4 letter words...that's your best shot at making your point.

[thedude]

You guys are possibly the most easily influenced fan base on the planet.

[jvan1973]

You guys are possibly the most easily influenced fan base on the planet.

so who is.playing better THIS season?

[OffensivelyPC]

You guys are possibly the most easily influenced fan base on the planet.

If we were so easily influenced, we'd be talking about how Vontae is average and would be a nickel corner on everyone else's roster in the face of statistics to the contrary.

[Superman]

The results of this aren't too surprising. A lot of you guys have been telling the rest of us that Davis has been much better than he's gotten credit for, and I can say - at least for myself - that I've listened. I wasn't that impressed with him in Miami but obviously he's been very productive and effective for Indy. 

 

The only problem I have with data from PFF is how people take it as gospel. Try to keep in mind there are still subjective factors at play with their stats. The main weakness is that they are judging each play for each player based on an assumed job or assignment, and how well they did that job. Sometimes that's obvious but other times it's not. There are still judgment calls and of course  the PFF guys watching game film over in the UK (where they're based) don't know what "Player A" was actually supposed to do on any given play. 

 

One thing that also confuses me a bit with PFF is that they release their weekly info prior to when the all-22 film is normally available for each game. I know they used to use Game Rewind (saw an interview with the founder a couple of years back) and am not sure how they did their job with just that. Does anyone know if they get the all-22 earlier in the week or something? 

 

Overall their info is good, don't get me wrong. It's useful and interesting stuff. But it's not infallible and is subject to possible errors, as well as slanted judgment calls by the (probably cricket and soccer fan) guys that work for them reviewing games and gathering stats. 

 

Sorry to go back and bring up something old, but I'd just like to note here that no one in this thread is using PFF grades or ratings as the basis for their comments on Vontae Davis.

 

PFF does several things. One of the things they do is chart games, and while you might get some variance from one person to the next, charting is pretty objective. With that data, you can break down what we all see into raw numbers. "The QB threw the ball 8 times to the left, outside the numbers, between 10-19 yards, and had 6 completions, 1 TD, no interceptions, no drops." Anyone with a basic understanding of football can chart data, and again, you're not going to get a lot of variance.

 

The numbers that are being used in this thread are from basic charting: targets, catches allowed, passes defensed, TDs, INTs, yards, passer rating against, etc. None of that is PFF grades. That's just charting, which should be pretty much the same, no matter who is compiling the data. You and I could watch the same game independently and come up with different grades, but our charting data should be the same.

 

One more thing, American football is very popular in the UK. Just because the company is based over there doesn't mean they don't know football.

[Vance]

You guys are possibly the most easily influenced fan base on the planet.

 

Oh pfft. Seattle fans are so high on themselves. They think Carroll births All-Pro defensive players and Sherman is in fact, Batman. Seriously, if you even dare say that the 3rd string long snapper is average, it's as if you just insulted their mother.

[NewColtsFan]

You guys are possibly the most easily influenced fan base on the planet.

 

Hey,  if you don't like us,  then why do you bother?

 

And we're now on Page 6 of your self defense.......