Last time Colts had 59th pick

[12isthenew18]

We took Mike Pollak...

We also missed having a first round selection by trading our 2008 4th and 1st for niners 2007 2nd round pick. Niners got with the fourthround pick that also happens tobe the 126th pick guess who Dashon Goldson a pro bowler and kentwon balmer, colts got tony ugoh a bust.

 

Could karma bite us in our butt and select weston richburg and say hes a bust and we trade up a 1st and 4th and get nothing. 

Fun fact: we all wanted Chris Clemons S in FA we traded the pick he was selected to the dolphins for a bust.

Last time we had 90th pick we selected Donald Strickland??????

 

All this shows is draft is make or bust and this year with possibly worst way to start draft could be risky.

 

[HtownColt]

I didn't hear anybody say they wanted Cris Clemons until he was the last safety available. And many still didn't want him. I know I didn't

[TKnight24]

And the point of this thread is????

Different Era, doubt it'll be the same result

Be so glad when this draft is over

[Moncrief]

Different. Regime.

[TheGeneral69]

Eh I'm sure he's right, a draft from a few years back will most definitely somehow have a karma affect on this draft, and we will draft a poor player, who will be out of the league in a few years, just because we had the 59th pick before. 

[Dark Superman]

Blame Polian.

[wig]

I don't think you know what karma means.

[BlueShoe]

The downfall to Bill Polian was his inability to draft good offensive linemen; mostly later in his tenure here. Consequently he was forced to start reaching for offensive linemen. Early on in Polian's Colts tenure, he had a lot of success with offensive lineman. He drafted DeMulling and Diem, he inherited Glenn and Meadows, and our line was very good. Saturday was also a good pickup once he was cut by the Ravens after going undrafted. 

 

He blamed himself for not having a good backup quarterback and credited it to his demise; however, a better offensive line would have kept Peyton healthy to begin with.

 

My two cents - Lack of success with drafting offensive linemen was the initial downfall to Bill Polian's career. The worst thing to ever happen to Bill Polian was losing Tarik Glenn. And to Polian's credit, had he known sooner that Glenn was going to retire then he could have been more prepared, and not had to make a drastic move to get Ugoh. This is where the downhill spiral started. He never could replace Glenn. I believe the Polian camp got it right when they drafted Castonzo, but it was too late by then.

 

Outside of that, the man was a drafting genius.

 

Also, I am not sure where the OP was going with this, but Marcus Washington was also drafted at #59. He was a darn good linebacker.

[braveheartcolt]

Drafting genius.

We should just shut this site down now.

[BlueShoe]

Drafting genius.

We should just shut this site down now.

 

Love him or hate him - It is easier for people to hate him now that he is gone; his track record of drafting players is as good as any in the history of the NFL.

[crazycolt1]

Love him or hate him - It is easier for people to hate him now that he is gone; his track record of drafting players is as good as any in the history of the NFL.

Maybe in his first few years but later was left to be desired. Polian drafted 103 players when he was GM for the Colts. He had 13 players make the pro bowl.

[BlueShoe]

Maybe in his first few years but later was left to be desired. Polian drafted 103 players when he was GM for the Colts. He had 13 players make the pro bowl.

 

And several are still playing in the league for other teams. 

 

Polian was great at drafting the right players that we needed to fit our system. 

 

Later in his tenure with the Colts, he was chasing offensive linemen and could not find the right pieces. This was his downfall.

[Smonroe]

And several are still playing in the league for other teams. 

 

Polian was great at drafting the right players that we needed to fit our system. 

 

Later in his tenure with the Colts, he was chasing offensive linemen and could not find the right pieces. This was his downfall.

Not to mention that he was always drafting late in the rounds every year.

[theanarchist]

We took Mike Pollak...

We also missed having a first round selection by trading our 2008 4th and 1st for niners 2007 2nd round pick. Niners got with the fourthround pick that also happens tobe the 126th pick guess who Dashon Goldson a pro bowler and kentwon balmer, colts got tony ugoh a bust.

 

Could karma bite us in our butt and select weston richburg and say hes a bust and we trade up a 1st and 4th and get nothing. 

Fun fact: we all wanted Chris Clemons S in FA we traded the pick he was selected to the dolphins for a bust.

Last time we had 90th pick we selected Donald Strickland??????

 

All this shows is draft is make or bust and this year with possibly worst way to start draft could be risky.

Good for conversation but I'm sure this years draft will have different effect. Bottom line is that no pick is a lock, especially when you're talking 59 and beyond. As many will point out there are plenty of pro bowlers selected in the 2nd round and beyond but the further from #1 you get the more difficult it is to get a pro-bowler. We'd all love a pro-bowl type player this draft because I don't think we got one in the 2013 draft. We may have gotten as many as 4 in the 2012 draft: Luck, Hilton, Allen and possibly Fleener someday. 

[ProblChld32]

[The Best Ever Luck]

Really are those players in this draft? 

[crazycolt1]

And several are still playing in the league for other teams. 

 

Polian was great at drafting the right players that we needed to fit our system. 

 

Later in his tenure with the Colts, he was chasing offensive linemen and could not find the right pieces. This was his downfall.

Is that why the Colts running game and defense was always at the bottom of the league?  Not to mention last in the league in special teams play.

[ReMeDy]

Early on in Polian's Colts tenure, he had a lot of success with offensive lineman. He drafted DeMulling and Diem, he inherited Glenn and Meadows, and our line was very good. Saturday was also a good pickup once he was cut by the Ravens after going undrafted.

 

Thank god for that. Having that great o-line for our young QB (Peyton Manning) paved a way for 10+ years of success. Houston thought they had a franchise QB in David Carr, but he got sacked so much, he started seeing ghosts. He's now the poster boy for why a young QB needs a good o-line to help groom his confidence.

[dw49]

Love him or hate him - It is easier for people to hate him now that he is gone; his track record of drafting players is as good as any in the history of the NFL.

 

 

Geez… I don't know about that one. Do you have anything to back that up or does it just have a nice "ring" to it ? Oh and I' amazed no one in this thread mentions Chris Polian. 

[dw49]

And several are still playing in the league for other teams. 

 

Polian was great at drafting the right players that we needed to fit our system. 

 

Later in his tenure with the Colts, he was chasing offensive linemen and could not find the right pieces. This was his downfall.

 

 

Or you could list to what Ray Lewis had to say about the Colts. He pretty much said they were a bad football team ( 10 years of  Manning era) if you took Payton Manning off the team.

 

 

[braveheartcolt]

Love him or hate him - It is easier for people to hate him now that he is gone; his track record of drafting players is as good as any in the history of the NFL.

I have no personal gripe with you, young man, but had you been on this forum many years ago, you would not have written that.

Polian is the most over rated sports person, ever.

Manning made him, and Manning destroyed him.

We became a better franchise the day he was fired.

[BlueShoe]

I have no personal gripe with you, young man, but had you been on this forum many years ago, you would not have written that.

Polian is the most over rated sports person, ever.

Manning made him, and Manning destroyed him.

We became a better franchise the day he was fired.

 

It is too bad that I am not a young man anymore. I have been on these forums for several years, dating back to the IndyStar days around 1996. This was pre Bill Polian days. I went by the name Coltsfan in the early days of the IndyStar and when Colts.com originally opened the doors for a message board; I was Doss20. I was member number 23. I have logged well over a few hundred thousand posts on Colts boards. But that doesn't really even matter, does it?

 

The forums over the years have been mostly in favor of Polian's draft picks. It was just hard to predict, because he did not draft players in accordance with any website draft boards. It was overpaying his own players and not using any money on free agents from other teams that people mostly griped about. Sure there was always a whipping boy. Rob Morris had his share of beat-downs on the boards. 

 

What destroyed Bill Polian was his inability to draft good offensive linemen later in his tenure in Indy, which led to Peyton getting hurt. Another major issue was that we were running a very outdated defense and its better days were long in the past.

[BlueShoe]

Geez… I don't know about that one. Do you have anything to back that up or does it just have a nice "ring" to it ? Oh and I' amazed no one in this thread mentions Chris Polian. 

 

Bill was trying to open doors for his son after he retired. Chris did not do very well with the responsibilities and rumors were that he rubbed a lot of people in the organization the wrong way. 

 

Bill Polian made a career from drafting Hall of Famers. Not sure what more there is to debate.

[BlueShoe]

Or you could list to what Ray Lewis had to say about the Colts. He pretty much said they were a bad football team ( 10 years of  Manning era) if you took Payton Manning off the team.

 

 

 

I mostly agree with Ray Lewis on this; just not the timeline. Peyton Manning single handily carried this team on his back after we won the Super Bowl and Tarik Glenn retired. It was downhill from there.  

[BlueShoe]

Thank god for that. Having that great o-line for our young QB (Peyton Manning) paved a way for 10+ years of success. Houston thought they had a franchise QB in David Carr, but he got sacked so much, he started seeing ghosts. He's now the poster boy for why a young QB needs a good o-line to help groom his confidence.

 

I agree. I believe Howard Mudd had more input on who we drafted in the early years and later his voice was not heard as much; which is probably why he stepped aside. This is only speculation though. I was not in any of the draft rooms and have no inside source. It is just what makes the most sense to me. 

[BlueShoe]

Is that why the Colts running game and defense was always at the bottom of the league?  Not to mention last in the league in special teams play.

 

Running Game sucked because our line sucked.

 

Defense sucked because it was outdated when we started using it.

[braveheartcolt]

Running Game sucked because our line sucked.

 

Defense sucked because it was outdated when we started using it.

Perhaps all this 'suckyness' was down to poor drafting?

[braveheartcolt]

It is too bad that I am not a young man anymore. I have been on these forums for several years, dating back to the IndyStar days around 1996. This was pre Bill Polian days. I went by the name Coltsfan in the early days of the IndyStar and when Colts.com originally opened the doors for a message board; I was Doss20. I was member number 23. I have logged well over a few hundred thousand posts on Colts boards. But that doesn't really even matter, does it?

 

The forums over the years have been mostly in favor of Polian's draft picks. It was just hard to predict, because he did not draft players in accordance with any website draft boards. It was overpaying his own players and not using any money on free agents from other teams that people mostly griped about. Sure there was always a whipping boy. Rob Morris had his share of beat-downs on the boards. 

 

What destroyed Bill Polian was his inability to draft good offensive linemen later in his tenure in Indy, which led to Peyton getting hurt. Another major issue was that we were running a very outdated defense and its better days were long in the past.

Nice to have you around, old fella!

[BlueShoe]

Perhaps all this 'suckyness' was down to poor drafting?

 

On the offense line - Yes. I said that already.

 

As far as the defense; the philosophy did not work anymore. 

[crazycolt1]

On the offense line - Yes. I said that already.

 

As far as the defense; the philosophy did not work anymore. 

The philosophy don't work at all when you don't draft the players to play it.

[crazycolt1]

And several are still playing in the league for other teams. 

 

Polian was great at drafting the right players that we needed to fit our system. 

 

Later in his tenure with the Colts, he was chasing offensive linemen and could not find the right pieces. This was his downfall.

The only system for the Colts was drafting players to make Manning look great. Manning spent a lot of years trying to make up for the lack of a defense and very poor special teams play. In my opinion Polian jumped on Mannings back and road him to the ground.

[crazycolt1]

Bill was trying to open doors for his son after he retired. Chris did not do very well with the responsibilities and rumors were that he rubbed a lot of people in the organization the wrong way. 

 

Bill Polian made a career from drafting Hall of Famers. Not sure what more there is to debate.

So how many HOFers did Polian draft for the Colts? Manning is a no brainer. Polian drafted 103 players while he was with the Colts. 13 of those players made the pro bowl. Those numbers don't stack up with what you are saying. Polian might have been good before joining the Colts but in the big picture I can't see where he was all that great here.

[BlueShoe]

The philosophy don't work at all when you don't draft the players to play it.

 

There were many problems with the defensive philosophy.

 

The defensive was based on speed and it took smaller/faster players to implement it. In an NFL where players are getting bigger and stronger every year; our defensive players were getting smaller, and it could not work anymore. We could not keep our defensive backs healthy. We were not stout enough in the front seven to handle a team that just wanted to pound it down our throats. Unless we had a huge lead, our defense was at a disadvantage. We were outsized and for the most part, we were pushed around. The defense only worked with a big lead, because when we made offenses one-dimensional, our speed would dictate the game. Our pass rush was our strength and teams could easily take away Freeney and Mathis by running the ball. This is why Bob Sanders was so important, because he was the eraser, and although he was a smaller player, he did not miss many tackles. This style eventually ended his career. Had Bob Sanders played for a team; where he was not responsible for stopping running backs twice his size on nearly every play, he may have had a long-stellar career.

 

Bill Polian did draft the right players to play the defense; however, the defense was outdated. The main premise of the pass defense was to cover zones and wait for the quarterback to make an arrant throw. The idea was that if we have players in each zone then we would have more opportunities to create turnovers. The problem with that is, the quarterbacks in the NFL also evolved. Quarterbacks, even straight out of college were more accurate and they just do not make as many mistakes. Thus we suffered on 3rd downs. Our third down defense was absolutely horrific, and it was not because of the players, it was because there were too many holes in the defensive philosophy, especially in the middle of the field. We were so secure outside and deep that teams would kill us with intermediate routes over the middle of the field.

 

Phillip Wheeler was a good special teams player and backup middle linebacker for the Colts defense, but he never was a star in the Tampa 2. He had talent though and 15 years ago, he would have flourished in our old defense. This would have been before the code to beat the Tampa 2 was broken. After he left the Colts and headed to Oakland, he played lights out and earned a huge contract with the Dolphins a year later. Last year with the Dolphins, he posted career numbers. In the Colts/Miami game, Phillip Wheeler was the best linebacker on the field (for either team).

 

Tim Jennings was the laughing stock of Colts boards. He was always abused by Colts fans. He goes to Chicago; where the Tampa 2 had evolved into more of a traditional 4-3 than resembling cover schemes, and he set the NFL on fire. Over the past two years, he has easily been a top 10 corner.

 

Our old defense would not have worked even if we had all-star players. The Tampa2 just doesn't work anymore in the NFL.

[BlueShoe]

So how many HOFers did Polian draft for the Colts? Manning is a no brainer. Polian drafted 103 players while he was with the Colts. 13 of those players made the pro bowl. Those numbers don't stack up with what you are saying. Polian might have been good before joining the Colts but in the big picture I can't see where he was all that great here.

 

I will let you go back and do the math. I am not going to do the work for you.

 

How many GM's would love to say that 13% of the players they drafted made the Pro Bowl, especially after drafting late in most of the rounds? This is not something to thumb your nose at.

[BlueShoe]

Manning spent a lot of years trying to make up for the lack of a defense and very poor special teams play. In my opinion Polian jumped on Mannings back and road him to the ground.

 

From 2007 to 2010, I agree.

 

What killed the Polian era Colts was the retirement of Tarik Glenn. Bill Polian chased his tail trying to find an answer, and he never could.

[crazycolt1]

From 2007 to 2010, I agree.

 

What killed the Polian era Colts was the retirement of Tarik Glenn. Bill Polian chased his tail trying to find an answer, and he never could.

So the loss of Glenn explained the poor defense and special teams play? I don't think the loss of one player would make 2 out of 3 phases of the team perform poorly.

[BlueShoe]

So the loss of Glenn explained the poor defense and special teams play? I don't think the loss of one player would make 2 out of 3 phases of the team perform poorly.

 

Have you completely overlooked the other responses that I have already made to you about this?

 

Try looking 4 posts up.

 

Or just click Here

[crazycolt1]

Have you completely overlooked the other responses that I have already made to you about this?

 

Try looking 4 posts up.

 

Or just click Here

Look, this forum has had more than it's share of the Polian debate. It is old news and most have voiced their opinion more than once. I will not debate or argue with this anymore. Move on.

[BlueShoe]

Look, this forum has had more than it's share of the Polian debate. It is old news and most have voiced their opinion more than once. I will not debate or argue with this anymore. Move on.

 

And I have been involved in quite a few of Polian debates over the years. I have been on his side on some issues and against him on others. But the fact of the matter is that he was great at evaluating talent. He drafted several Pro Bowlers and several Hall of Famers. Anyone who says any different and denies him the credit for the good moves he made is just hating on the man.

 

I dislike several moves he made, especially for trading away Faulk. I will never forgive him for that.

 

That does not change the fact that Bill Polian drafted some of the greatest players to ever play in the NFL.

[Nesjan3]

sooo basically what your saying is if we have a bad draft its polians fault>?