Nick Foles Legit?

[dgambill]

Just wondering what people think. 119 passer rating 27tds 2 ints. Say what you want...maybe a system qb or whatever but he doesn't make a lot of mistakes...takes care of the ball and gets it where it needs to go. Looks like that draft class last year just keeps getting deeper and deeper. Playing the way he has he is right there with Andrew, Russell, RGIII, and Tannenhil. Please discuss.

[Dustin]

I think he's being overrated right now. Chip Kelley's offensive system gives him ridiculously large windows to throw into. He's overly reliant on YAC and play-action. His time to throw is still the 3rd highest in the NFL.

 

That said, I think he's smart and protects the ball well and can only get better.

[kjyb]

           

[kjyb]

hes being playin very well but if it wasnt them 7 td passes and that how he gained hes momental chip kelly offensivesplays  is a juggernaut if you ask me 

[IndyTrav]

Ya, I think the kid is pretty raw. I'd like to see more of him because its a small sample size. But this is a young guy, 2 years in the league, never had a TC with him as "the man", learning a new offense, without the best WR on the team and he flourished......this kid could be something special. Or he could be Derek Anderson. We will see.  

[Superman]

Absolutely he's legit. Maybe not a world beater, maybe a touch overrated right now, but he's got the stuff. Needs some refinement and more experience, and I think the Saints defense is going to beat him up bad. But he's a solid young QB with tons of upside.

[Blue Horseshoe]

One hit wonder on a hot streak in my opinion.  Give defensive coordinators 8 months to dissect that offense and then let's see what it looks like.  I think they will focus on shutting down the run to make and playing man to man but they will probably come up with something much more creative to shut it down.

[Jason_]

Yes Foles is legit, but then again I've been saying that since I started watching him his senior season at Arizona.  The more he acclimates to the NFL the better he will get.  I don't think 27 TDs to 2 Ints will be a normal for him, but I do think he will continue to be one of the best young QB's in the game.  

[Gavin]

He is legit, part of it has to do with Chips offense but the poise he shows in the pocket especially under pressure is fantastic

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

He is legit, part of it has to do with Chips offense but the poise he shows in the pocket especially under pressure is fantastic

Actually I think that is the one knock against Foles.  He has ZERO poise under pressure.

[Superman]

Actually I think that is the one knock against Foles.  He has ZERO poise under pressure.

 

He struggles against the blitz, especially. I'm not sure it's a poise issue, so much as an experience issue. I guess we'll see as he gets more time, but the coaches really need to help him identify looks and go hot.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

He struggles against the blitz, especially. I'm not sure it's a poise issue, so much as an experience issue. I guess we'll see as he gets more time, but the coaches really need to help him identify looks and go hot.

I think defenses will catch up to Kelly's offense a little bit, but I also think Foles has a lot of room for improvement.  He could very well be a great one.

[Jason_]

Actually I think that is the one knock against Foles.  He has ZERO poise under pressure.

 

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of poise but rather, as superman said, lack of experience.  Foles was the best QB in NCAA in 2011 when facing a blitz situation (which they calculated as any time the defense sent 5 or more rushers).  He had the highest QB rating in those situations above Luck, RG3, Wilson etc.  He is more than used to facing pressure considering the total lack of talent on the OL that he had at Arizona.  It's just a matter of him knowing the hot reads, making adjustments presnap when necessary etc etc that will all come with experience.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of poise but rather, as superman said, lack of experience.  Foles was the best QB in NCAA in 2011 when facing a blitz situation (which they calculated as any time the defense sent 5 or more rushers).  He had the highest QB rating in those situations above Luck, RG3, Wilson etc.  He is more than used to facing pressure considering the total lack of talent on the OL that he had at Arizona.  It's just a matter of him knowing the hot reads, making adjustments presnap when necessary etc etc that will all come with experience.

I'm with you guys on the experience part.  He needs to learn to keep his eyes downfield and follow his progressions.  If there is one gold star we can put next to Luck's name, it's his ability to keep his eyes downfield regardless of what is happening around him.

[Jason_]

I'm with you guys on the experience part.  He needs to learn to keep his eyes downfield and follow his progressions.  If there is one gold star we can put next to Luck's name, it's his ability to keep his eyes downfield regardless of what is happening around him.

 

I don't think he needs to learn to do that but rather he needs to adjust to the differences in doing that in college vs. the pros.  Every time I've watched him at Arizona or in Philly, he's always keeping his eyes downfield.  

 

I will say that one thing Foles needs to do is know when to give up on a play and either run for a few yards or throw the ball away instead of taking sacks.  

[Balzer40]

What exactly does "legit" mean in this question? Legit, as in he's a future star, or Legit, as in he'll be a good QB for many yrs. in the NFL. I would lean far more to him being a good QB for a long time in the league. I do not think he'll ever be a top QB in the league, but I think he can be a good game manager and not make a lot of mistakes.

[jamesie jr]

Yes I think he's legit. Probably the 3rd best QB in that class behind Wilson/Luck whichever one you would like to say is better. Think RG3 is still good, but Foles is a better passer imo and RG3 relied on his speed too much, maybe when he's had a proper off season rest he should be back to his former self.

[Jason_]

i'll say that, barring injury, his floor is Jay Cutler...though I think he is more accurate and has better touch than Cutler.

[OffensivelyPC]

I think he's going to be good.  His only real impressive win was against AZ as the rest were against either good teams with backups (i.e. GB) or inferior talent.  That being said, with all that he has done, it's really tough to diminish a 27-2 TD/INT ratio.  So my criticism is admittedly with tongue in cheek.  I'd like to see how he does in the playoffs and next year before signing off on it.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

I don't think he needs to learn to do that but rather he needs to adjust to the differences in doing that in college vs. the pros.  Every time I've watched him at Arizona or in Philly, he's always keeping his eyes downfield.  

 

I will say that one thing Foles needs to do is know when to give up on a play and either run for a few yards or throw the ball away instead of taking sacks.  

I've noticed he does not do that.  

[Jason_]

I've noticed he does not do that.  

 

Well then we disagree.  From time to time he may get caught up not looking downfield, but far more often than not he is.  This is one of the things he excelled at, imo, at Arizona.  

[Colts_Fan12]

He is legit IMO he is the second best QB in that draft

Wilson will begin to come down to earth when he starts losing all his talent around him

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

He is legit IMO he is the second best QB in that draft

Wilson will begin to come down to earth when he starts losing all his talent around him

Wilson doesn't exactly have a ton of talent on offense outside of Lynch and Harvin. (who barely saw the field)  He may struggle more if he has to carry the team instead of his defense, but I don't think you are giving Wilson due credit.

[Colts_Fan12]

Wilson doesn't exactly have a ton of talent on offense outside of Lynch and Harvin. (who barely saw the field) He may struggle more if he has to carry the team instead of his defense, but I don't think you are giving Wilson due credit.

I like Wilson and I think he is good but he is being way overhyped IMO he is good tho I just like Foles better and of course Luck

[esmort]

I've noticed he does not do that.  

 

I thought I heard the announcers during the Dallas game actually comment on how that was something he really needed to improve on, because when he felt pressure he would drop his eyes and stop going through his progressions.

[dgambill]

What exactly does "legit" mean in this question? Legit, as in he's a future star, or Legit, as in he'll be a good QB for many yrs. in the NFL. I would lean far more to him being a good QB for a long time in the league. I do not think he'll ever be a top QB in the league, but I think he can be a good game manager and not make a lot of mistakes.

Sorry. Yeah I ment will he go on to be a star like Luck and Wilson have already become(ing) or are we seeing a fluke season.

 

Wilson doesn't exactly have a ton of talent on offense outside of Lynch and Harvin. (who barely saw the field)  He may struggle more if he has to carry the team instead of his defense, but I don't think you are giving Wilson due credit.

I disagree. Wilson has less talent on his offense than Luck does. Wilson has no Reggie Wayne and TY Hilton is probably better than any receiver he has. I would say TE is probably a push but with Allen healthy we have a plus there. RB clearly Lynch is better than what we have but having Trent/Brown isn't a bad combo at all. Offensive lines Wilson's is better but actually his have been beat up a lot this year. Clearly he has a better defense but we are talking about offensive numbers not wins. Wilson is completely legit IMO...and one of the best qbs in the league. He does just as much if not more with less offensive talent than Luck. Unless someone thinks Golden Tate is something special (he's not) than I think Russell has shown incredible ability to get the ball where it needs to go.

 

 

I think Foles was good in college. Very solid qb. I don't think its a fluke he is playing this well. I think 27-2 is probably not going to continue forever but I see no reason he should have a big drop in his game. Also I think he does quite well keeping his eyes down field because I've seen him make some incredible scramble and passes to Jackson and Cooper....and with those targets and his TE studs..and they get Macklin back....YIKES that's a dangerous offense. Clearly McCoy helps TREMENDOUSLY just like Morris helped RGIII last year but I don't see teams slowing this offense down too much. Just because the NFL gets time to see an offense doesn't mean they can stop it. Otherwise teams could stop Payton's Saints or Peyton's Broncos or Brady's NE. Sure those teams will get beat from time to time but some things aren't stoppable if executed well and that offense is kinda one of them....

[bap1331]

He's legit... He's been consistent up until yesterday. He seemed to be off but it was the pressure of the cowboys defense. They played better then they usually do

[WastedColt]

I think he's legit but there may be a drop off when there is more tape on him. Also doesn't hurt to have Philly's running game.

[rsrobinson]

Foles is good but 27 - 2 TD to INT ratio is unsustainable. I expect to see some regression next year as a starter, especially after DCs have a full offseason to prepare for the Eagles offense. We'll have a better idea of how good he is next year at this time.

Regarding Russell Wilson...I have no idea where people get the idea he is surrounded by elite talent on offense. Lynch is a beast but the O-Line is average, at best, and was borderline awful for much of the season with multiple injuries. And without Harvin or Rice, his WR corps consists of Golden Tate and three undrafted free agents. The Seahawks offense performed as well as it did this year largely because of Wilson's accuracy and ability to improvise and make plays.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Sorry. Yeah I ment will he go on to be a star like Luck and Wilson have already become(ing) or are we seeing a fluke season.

 

I disagree. Wilson has less talent on his offense than Luck does. Wilson has no Reggie Wayne and TY Hilton is probably better than any receiver he has. I would say TE is probably a push but with Allen healthy we have a plus there. RB clearly Lynch is better than what we have but having Trent/Brown isn't a bad combo at all. Offensive lines Wilson's is better but actually his have been beat up a lot this year. Clearly he has a better defense but we are talking about offensive numbers not wins. Wilson is completely legit IMO...and one of the best qbs in the league. He does just as much if not more with less offensive talent than Luck. Unless someone thinks Golden Tate is something special (he's not) than I think Russell has shown incredible ability to get the ball where it needs to go.

 

 

I think Foles was good in college. Very solid qb. I don't think its a fluke he is playing this well. I think 27-2 is probably not going to continue forever but I see no reason he should have a big drop in his game. Also I think he does quite well keeping his eyes down field because I've seen him make some incredible scramble and passes to Jackson and Cooper....and with those targets and his TE studs..and they get Macklin back....YIKES that's a dangerous offense. Clearly McCoy helps TREMENDOUSLY just like Morris helped RGIII last year but I don't see teams slowing this offense down too much. Just because the NFL gets time to see an offense doesn't mean they can stop it. Otherwise teams could stop Payton's Saints or Peyton's Broncos or Brady's NE. Sure those teams will get beat from time to time but some things aren't stoppable if executed well and that offense is kinda one of them....

I'm confused.  You say you disagree but then go on to say exactly what I was saying.

[pacolts56]

With the cast of talent he has around him and a solid O-line in front of him...Foles should consistently be a Top 10-15 QB.

 

He's adapted to Kelly's system in a shortened time frame as their starter, so he has the understanding and quick learning he'll need when defenses adjust. He's a damn sight better than Vick in that regard and he's more durable.

 

And even if he plays it a bit cautious when his protection breaks down and hasn't got anywhere near Vick's mobility.....he doesn't make costly mistakes with the ball either.

 

Compared to RGIII at #2, Ryan Tannehill at #8 and Brandon Weeden at #22...I think the Eagles got an excellent 3rd round value.

[dgambill]

I'm confused.  You say you disagree but then go on to say exactly what I was saying.

Oops I think I quoted the wrong person...I think I ment to quote who you quoted. Sorry.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Oops I think I quoted the wrong person...I think I ment to quote who you quoted. Sorry.

...I've done that too, no worries.

[dgambill]

With the cast of talent he has around him and a solid O-line in front of him...Foles should consistently be a Top 10-15 QB.

 

He's adapted to Kelly's system in a shortened time frame as their starter, so he has the understanding and quick learning he'll need when defenses adjust. He's a damn sight better than Vick in that regard and he's more durable.

 

And even if he plays it a bit cautious when his protection breaks down and hasn't got anywhere near Vick's mobility.....he doesn't make costly mistakes with the ball either.

 

Compared to RGIII at #2, Ryan Tannehill at #8 and Brandon Weeden at #22...I think the Eagles got an excellent 3rd round value.

In the end the third rd qbs selected could all end up being better the first rd ones. Wilson is looking like a future star (ala drew brees) and Foles looks great too...very Brady-like with how he takes care of the ball and makes smart decisions. Heck even Cousins I think could be just as good if not better than the other two if he gets some help.

 

To me last years draft could be remembered in similar vain to the 83 draft class that had Elway, Kelly, Marino, Eason, and O'brein. That class was loaded with qb talent...hof and franchise talent. Actually that draft class was just loaded top to bottom period...with Matthews, Dickerson, Green and some other pro bowlers and Richard Dent later on that class was loaded with future talent. I think the class last year could have similar qb results...some HOFers and some perinnial pro bowlers out of the qb spot down the line....it will be interesting to see....all of those qbs i mentioned had great careers and we would be lucky for Luck to mimic just about any of them.

[Colts_Fan12]

In the end the third rd qbs selected could all end up being better the first rd ones. Wilson is looking like a future star (ala drew brees) and Foles looks great too...very Brady-like with how he takes care of the ball and makes smart decisions. Heck even Cousins I think could be just as good if not better than the other two if he gets some help.

To me last years draft could be remembered in similar vain to the 83 draft class that had Elway, Kelly, Marino, Eason, and O'brein. That class was loaded with qb talent...hof and franchise talent. Actually that draft class was just loaded top to bottom period...with Matthews, Dickerson, Green and some other pro bowlers and Richard Dent later on that class was loaded with future talent. I think the class last year could have similar qb results...some HOFers and some perinnial pro bowlers out of the qb spot down the line....it will be interesting to see....all of those qbs i mentioned had great careers and we would be lucky for Luck to mimic just about any of them.

I'm really hoping the skins trade Cousins I wanna see him get a chance and not be stuck behind RG3

[T Y Goodbye]

With the cast of talent he has around him and a solid O-line in front of him...Foles should consistently be a Top 10-15 QB.

 

He's adapted to Kelly's system in a shortened time frame as their starter, so he has the understanding and quick learning he'll need when defenses adjust. He's a damn sight better than Vick in that regard and he's more durable.

 

And even if he plays it a bit cautious when his protection breaks down and hasn't got anywhere near Vick's mobility.....he doesn't make costly mistakes with the ball either.

 

Compared to RGIII at #2, Ryan Tannehill at #8 and Brandon Weeden at #22...I think the Eagles got an excellent 3rd round value.

 

You're only saying that because you picked him up in FF, and he took you to the Championship game...

 

Seriously, he did very well, for being thrown to the wolves, so to say. He brought the Eagles to the playoffs out of nowhere, so a lot of credit has to go to him, as well as the rest of the offense in supporting him. Every QB always has something to work on, in some aspect of their game, especially when it comes down to injuries to key players, getting better at reading defenses, etc..No one expected him to have 27/2 so far, so he has done what many have never, or will never be able to do. I think he can become a very good NFL QB given more time and experience, which many previously have stated.

[pacolts56]

In the end the third rd qbs selected could all end up being better the first rd ones. Wilson is looking like a future star (ala drew brees) and Foles looks great too...very Brady-like with how he takes care of the ball and makes smart decisions. Heck even Cousins I think could be just as good if not better than the other two if he gets some help.

 

To me last years draft could be remembered in similar vain to the 83 draft class that had Elway, Kelly, Marino, Eason, and O'brein. That class was loaded with qb talent...hof and franchise talent. Actually that draft class was just loaded top to bottom period...with Matthews, Dickerson, Green and some other pro bowlers and Richard Dent later on that class was loaded with future talent. I think the class last year could have similar qb results...some HOFers and some perinnial pro bowlers out of the qb spot down the line....it will be interesting to see....all of those qbs i mentioned had great careers and we would be lucky for Luck to mimic just about any of them.

83 was a bountiful draft for sure.

 

Out of these new kids...it looks at this point as if Luck and Wilson have the physical tools and smarts to carry an offense with perhaps less weapons and less than top-tier O-line protection. I certainly hope Luck doesn't have to continue that....but he's shown the ability driven by the necessity....especially after Reggie went down.

 

Likewise, Wilson has solid but not exceptional WRs but he's also helped considerably by Lynch at RB, a pretty good OL and that insane defense with their +20 turnover ratio. Wilson though, shows a keen understanding of what's going on along with good instincts and decision making.

 

Foles, RGIII, and Tannehill seem to have a more narrow set of skills....still appearing solid, but lacking that complete set of skills an offense might have to rely on when things are going rough with the ground game or with problems at WR. Foles is making the most of his weapons and a nearly injury-free team so we'll have to see how he does when guys get nicked up.

 

Brandon Weeden runs occasionally hot but mostly cold, and just strikes me as not having a very firm grasp on things despite a pretty good OL, a very solid TE and a stud WR.

 

The mystery guy out of all of them will be Brock Osweiler, who has to wait for Manning to decide he's had enough, but he'll be the old-school model of the understudy backup QB who has to wait his turn so that'll be interesting. He couldn't ask for a better guy to learn behind.

 

They're all developing so its still early, and of course the highest profile of them all....Griffin....needs to avoid another knee-snapping or he's in big trouble career-wise. Whoever inherits that powder keg needs to glean whatever pocket-skills he has or else Cousins should get a solid shot.

 

Quite a QB class with alot of unanswered questions but alot of potential too.

[pacolts56]

You're only saying that because you picked him up in FF, and he took you to the Championship game...

 

Seriously, he did very well, for being thrown to the wolves, so to say. He brought the Eagles to the playoffs out of nowhere, so a lot of credit has to go to him, as well as the rest of the offense in supporting him. Every QB always has something to work on, in some aspect of their game, especially when it comes down to injuries to key players, getting better at reading defenses, etc..No one expected him to have 27/2 so far, so he has done what many have never, or will never be able to do. I think he can become a very good NFL QB given more time and experience, which many previously have stated.

Ssshhhhh!!!

 

Hey....the kid took the bull by the horns and between the Eagles offense and the road trip, I think the Saints will have their hands full this week. I hope Philly takes them out!

[Jason_]

83 was a bountiful draft for sure.

 

Out of these new kids...it looks at this point as if Luck and Wilson have the physical tools and smarts to carry an offense with perhaps less weapons and less than top-tier O-line protection. I certainly hope Luck doesn't have to continue that....but he's shown the ability driven by the necessity....especially after Reggie went down.

 

Likewise, Wilson has solid but not exceptional WRs but he's also helped considerably by Lynch at RB, a pretty good OL and that insane defense with their +20 turnover ratio. Wilson though, shows a keen understanding of what's going on along with good instincts and decision making.

 

Foles, RGIII, and Tannehill seem to have a more narrow set of skills....still appearing solid, but lacking that complete set of skills an offense might have to rely on when things are going rough with the ground game or with problems at WR. Foles is making the most of his weapons and a nearly injury-free team so we'll have to see how he does when guys get nicked up.

 

Brandon Weeden runs occasionally hot but mostly cold, and just strikes me as not having a very firm grasp on things despite a pretty good OL, a very solid TE and a stud WR.

 

The mystery guy out of all of them will be Brock Osweiler, who has to wait for Manning to decide he's had enough, but he'll be the old-school model of the understudy backup QB who has to wait his turn so that'll be interesting. He couldn't ask for a better guy to learn behind.

 

They're all developing so its still early, and of course the highest profile of them all....Griffin....needs to avoid another knee-snapping or he's in big trouble career-wise. Whoever inherits that powder keg needs to glean whatever pocket-skills he has or else Cousins should get a solid shot.

 

Quite a QB class with alot of unanswered questions but alot of potential too.

 

I almost agree with you but I would go ahead and put Foles in that top category with Wilson and Luck, and I think Tannehill has the potential to reach that top tier as well but he still has some work to do.  I understand what you mean about Foles having a better team around him now, but in college it was definitely the other way around.  Foles was surrounded by a bunch of misfits at Arizona but they were still a very successful offense, in fact the #3 passing offense in the NCAA that year.  I know that was at the college level and not the pro level, but being able to do it at the college level is a good first step.  

[pacolts56]

I almost agree with you but I would go ahead and put Foles in that top category with Wilson and Luck, and I think Tannehill has the potential to reach that top tier as well but he still has some work to do.  I understand what you mean about Foles having a better team around him now, but in college it was definitely the other way around.  Foles was surrounded by a bunch of misfits at Arizona but they were still a very successful offense, in fact the #3 passing offense in the NCAA that year.  I know that was at the college level and not the pro level, but being able to do it at the college level is a good first step.  

Very true...other than one solid WR, Foles had next to nothing at Arizona.

 

I do give Luck and Wilson a bit of an edge thus far in the NFL with their added mobility....they really do present a run threat, even if its a last resort.

 

But Foles gets alot of credit as well, for his efficiency and operating an uptempo offense that uses every skill position weapon and every square inch of the field. At the time they were drafted I wasn't terribly surprised that the 5'11" Wilson fell to the 3rd round but I was quite surprised Foles did....I figured him to go in the 20-40 range.

 

It's fair to say that even with their different strengths....the Colts, Eagles and Seahawks, and probably the Dolphins too, are all looking good at QB.