Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

[Dustin]

^^^^

Lol at this guy.

Just we needed, another Patriots troll. We sure don't have enough of those around here.

[Dustin]

I tend to laugh and we all laugh and chuckle here in New England when people cry and whine and bring up spy gate. "You cheated!!! You cheated!! Belichick!! Patriots!! Waaa waaaa." lol Notice all repeat each other and use each other's unoriginal names like it's a 3rd grade cafeteria? lol "You cheated poopy head!" No one even cares about spy gate here. We'e still celebrating our World Series victory with the Red Sox and the Bruins doing great as they won the Stanley Cup in 2010. Celtics won the title in '08. You see, here in New England we don't need to rely on a quarterback and put him on Mt Rushmore. We got David Ortiz Big Papi and a whole host of other great athletes to keep us entertained.

We Patriots fans and Cowboys fans do take great honor and knowing we have so many haters.

Boston sports = 8 championships since 2001.

Sports most hated teams =

NY Yankees

LA Lakers

Dallas Cowboys

New England Patriots

Ohio State

I'll take Brady in the post season over Peyton. But I'd take Peyton over Brady in the regular season in a climate controlled environment.

Now, Peyton played most his games indoors as the Colts played 8 home games a year indoors (with artificial noise pumped through the speakers) and they also played 1 more in Houston in doors so that's 9 indoor games. Now you have to also take into consideration when the Colts play the NFC South and play the Falcons and Saints indoors so that's 11 games in doors in a season. Most the year Jacksonville and Nashville have more pleasant weather plus the Jags and Titans have been horrible for years and now the Texans are back to being the same old Texans. Peyton is an excellent regular season climate controlled quarterback. Brett Favre grew up in the hot south but he was able to make the transition and play QB in Green Bay in 10 degree weather.

From 2001 to 2006 the Pats' offense wasn't that great and the big deal was that Brady didn't have many weapons, he didn't have "quality" weapons. Not compared to the offensive fire power the Colts had in the early to mid 2000's. The Pats were built on defense. Colts were built on offense. Most times a good D beats a good O in the post season especially when the weather is bad.

Pats would have gone to the 2006 Super Bowl if Reche Caldwell didn't drop that one pass in the AFC title game.

The reason why the Pats haven't won a super bowl since 2004 has nothing to do with some flimsy silly insignificant video camera. It's because of many factors below...

Salary cap...

Free agency and business - Pats either traded or released or players left for other teams for more money or better deals.

Staff changes - Charlie Weis the offensive coordinator left. Romeo Crennel the defensive coordinator left. Eric Mangini left. Scott Pioli left plus so many coaches that many other teams have now. Chances are there is a former Pats' employee on every NFL team now and once that former Pats' coach of employee gets hired by a different team everyone in the organization surrounds him and asks him the magic secrets the Pats used and tries to pick his brain just like how the Colts put Adam Vinatieri under the hot light asking him what he knew. lol So "if" the Pats cheated well what did Adam say about it? You're calling Adam Vinatieri a cheater, but he knows the truth....his team and his foot won super bowls.

So all the former Patriots players who are either on other teams now or retired why haven't they come out and "exposed" all the dirty little secrets of spy gate? lol Plenty of disgruntled former Patriots players who left on bad terms would LOVE nothing more than to get even with Belichick and Kraft. If anyone would expose the Pats it would be Ty Law, Lawyer Miloy, Adam Vinatieri and Richard Seymour who left on very bad terms. Well why aren't they speaking out? lol

So "IF" some video camera made a significance are you saying that if the Pats were still using some video camera that they would have won every super bowl since 2005? lol So why didn't the Pats win the 2002 super bowl? Why didn't they win the 2005 or 2006 Super Bowls? lol

"IF" some video camera helps then why didn't it help the Broncos when Josh McDaniels was there and one of their coaches was using the "video camera" ? lol

Gene Upshaw former executive director of the Player's Association (NFLPA) said that no video camera caused Kurt Warner to fumble in the super bowl in 2001. That was all on Kurt.

Commissioner of the NFL even said that whatever video the Pats had of the Rams' walk through before the super bowl was not processed.

Jets used video cameras too but Eric Mangini the snitch was just mad the Pats blew out his team so he went crying to the NFL like a bitc%. Where's he now?

Many teams used video cameras. Heck former Cowboys' coach Jimmy Johnson said he knew of teams that did the same and far worse. So it's sad that teams do things and sit back and don't man up and come out and admit it.

Saints bounty scandal - I doubt the Saints were the only ones involved in that. It's just when one gets caught everyone else stays silent like cowards.

Richie Incognito = Every NFL team has one of them and some teams have 10 Richie type players on their team but everyone currently playing in the NFL is silent on it because they do it and their locker rooms are involved in the same activity.

So if the Pats need to give back their rings (they never will) then the Colts need to give back their ring since they were pumping in artificial noise into their stadium. Sad that the Colts can't just rely on their own fans to create noise in an indoor stadium and just rely on them. Don't get me started on that cheating fraud Bill Polian either who's obsessed over the Pats who live rent free in his head.

TL;DR?

[Restored]

I tend to laugh and we all laugh and chuckle here in New England when people cry and whine and bring up spy gate. "You cheated!!! You cheated!! Waaa waaaa." lol Notice all repeat each other and use each other's unoriginal names like it's a 3rd grade cafeteria? lol "You cheated poopy head!" No one even cares about spy gate here. We're still celebrating our World Series victory with the Red Sox and the Bruins doing great as they won the Stanley Cup in 2010. Celtics won the title in '08. You see, here in New England we don't need to rely on a quarterback and put him on Mt Rushmore. We got David Ortiz Big Papi and a whole host of other great athletes to keep us entertained.

We Patriots fans and Cowboys fans do take great honor and knowing we have so many haters.

Boston sports = 8 championships since 2001.

Sports most hated teams =

NY Yankees

LA Lakers

Dallas Cowboys

New England Patriots

Ohio State

I'll take Brady in the post season over Peyton. But I'd take Peyton over Brady in the regular season in a climate controlled environment.

Now, Peyton played most his games indoors as the Colts played 8 home games a year indoors (with artificial noise pumped through the speakers) and they also played 1 more in Houston in doors so that's 9 indoor games. Now you have to also take into consideration when the Colts play the NFC South and play the Falcons and Saints indoors so that's 11 games in doors in a season. Most the year Jacksonville and Nashville have more pleasant weather plus the Jags and Titans have been horrible for years and now the Texans are back to being the same old Texans. Peyton is an excellent regular season climate controlled quarterback. Brett Favre grew up in the hot south but he was able to make the transition and play QB in Green Bay in 10 degree weather.

From 2001 to 2006 the Pats' offense wasn't that great and the big deal was that Brady didn't have many weapons, he didn't have "quality" weapons. Not compared to the offensive fire power the Colts had in the early to mid 2000's. The Pats were built on defense. Colts were built on offense. Most times a good D beats a good O in the post season especially when the weather is bad.

Pats would have gone to the 2006 Super Bowl if Reche Caldwell didn't drop that one pass in the AFC title game, so it wasn't some silly video camera because if some video camera made a difference then the Pats would have known what Peyton and the offense was doing. They didn't know what Peyton was doing because no camera did anything for the Pats. Peyton and the Colts' were better when they had to be and the Pats didn't capitalize and Caldwell dropped one ball that would have ended the game if he caught it.

The reason why the Pats haven't won a super bowl since 2004 has nothing to do with some flimsy silly insignificant video camera. It's because of many factors below...

Salary cap...

Free agency and business - Pats either traded or released or players left for other teams for more money or better deals.

Staff changes - Charlie Weis the offensive coordinator left. Romeo Crennel the defensive coordinator left. Eric Mangini left. Scott Pioli left plus so many coaches that many other teams have now. Chances are there is a former Pats' employee on every NFL team now and once that former Pats' coach of employee gets hired by a different team everyone in the organization surrounds him and asks him the magic secrets the Pats used and tries to pick his brain just like how the Colts put Adam Vinatieri under the hot light asking him what he knew. lol So "if" the Pats cheated well what did Adam say about it? You're calling Adam Vinatieri a cheater, but he knows the truth....his team and his foot won super bowls.

So all the former Patriots players who are either on other teams now or retired why haven't they come out and "exposed" all the dirty little secrets of spy gate? lol Plenty of disgruntled former Patriots players who left on bad terms would LOVE nothing more than to get even with Belichick and Kraft. If anyone would expose the Pats it would be Ty Law, Lawyer Miloy, Adam Vinatieri and Richard Seymour who left on very bad terms. Well why aren't they speaking out? lol

So "IF" some video camera made a significance are you saying that if the Pats were still using some video camera that they would have won every super bowl since 2005? lol So why didn't the Pats win the 2002 super bowl? Why didn't they win the 2005 or 2006 Super Bowls? lol

"IF" some video camera helps then why didn't it help the Broncos when Josh McDaniels was there and one of their coaches was using the "special secret Hubble Telescopevideo camera" ? lol

Gene Upshaw former executive director of the Player's Association (NFLPA) said that no video camera caused Kurt Warner to fumble in the super bowl in 2001. That was all on Kurt.

Commissioner of the NFL even said that whatever video the Pats had of the Rams' walk through before the super bowl was not processed.

Jets used video cameras too but Eric Mangini the snitch was just mad the Pats blew out his team so he went crying to the NFL like a bitc%. Where's he now?

Many teams used video cameras. Heck former Cowboys' coach Jimmy Johnson said he knew of teams that did the same and far worse. So it's sad that teams do things and sit back and don't man up and come out and admit it.

Saints bounty scandal - I doubt the Saints were the only ones involved in that. It's just when one gets caught everyone else stays silent like cowards.

Richie Incognito = Every NFL team has one of them and some teams have 10 Richie type players on their team but everyone currently playing in the NFL is silent on it because they do it and their locker rooms are involved in the same activity.

So if the Pats need to give back their rings (they never will) then the Colts need to give back their ring since they were pumping in artificial noise into their stadium. Sad that the Colts can't just rely on their own fans to create noise in an indoor stadium and just rely on them. Don't get me started on that cheating fraud Bill Polian either who's obsessed over the Pats who live rent free in his head.

Lol this post is easy. But I'll just save it and laugh about your huge insecurities regarding Spygate.

Oh and the fact is, the Patriots got caught, Goodell destroyed the tapes and laid down one of the biggest fines in league history.

Goodell probably knew that those tapes would of been dentrimental to the leagues image if they had gone public as there likely was a lot more than just walk-throughs on them.

[Jules]

Best thread in a long time.

 

Keep this going as long as possible please right through the game and after.

 

 

[shecolt]

^^^^

Lol at this guy.

Just we needed, another Patriots troll. We sure don't have enough of those around here.

 

I've never quite understood the reason behind trolling.  To me it just smacks of insecurity. 

 

TL;DR?

 

I read it all; however, I did have to stop for a while to laugh after reading "poopy head".

 

And, he pulled out the "piped in noise" card. 

 

You know that time when Kraft complained to NFL security that the Colts were pumping in noise and the league said that the strange noise was the result of tape feedback on CBS and couldn't be heard in the stadium . . . and then went on to fine Dungy $500,000, the Colts $250,000, and take away a draft pick.  ;)

[Franklin County]

The Pats have not won a SB since 2004 because of........... THE SALARY CAP.   We have a WINNER!!! :yeahright:

[Gavin]

The Pats have not won a SB since 2004 because of........... THE SALARY CAP.   We have a WINNER!!!

But have been twice since then......So not the salary cap

[Danfish98]

The conversation has gone in a different direction since coaching was discussed, and I'm not going to get into a debate over Manning v Brady.  Colts fans are always going to pick Peyton, Pats fans are always going to pick Brady.  It's understandable and I can't help it that Pats fans are wrong ;).  

 

The idea that coaching is overrated is one of the more insane things I've read on this board.  All you need to do is look at the Chiefs record this year vs their record last year to tell you that, or look at what happened to the Saints the year Sean Payton was suspended.  If anything I'd call coaching underrated.  It's one of the reasons I consider Peyton the better QB to Brady (there's that argument I was trying to avoid).  Brady's gotten Belichick his entire career.  Peyton had Jim "PLAYOFFS?!?" Mora, Dungy (who I like and was a very good coach, but no Belichick), and Jim Caldwell, who I'm fairly certain I could outcoach.

[Shane Bond]

Better then being known as a cheater I guess.

Well put

[Shane Bond]

For all the Pats fans here ( or trolls ) who pretend to act dumb ( or genuinely are dumb ) except GoPats, read the below.

 

Terrific article by Peter King.

 

http://mmqb.si.com/2...t-football-nfl/

 

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/cardinals/articles/20131122peyton-manning-tom-brady-pretty-even-when-comparing-career-playoff-games.html

[amfootball]

Which is why people don't put him in the GOAT discussion too often. His very un-timely picks and frequency of them hurt him a lot in terms of his overall legacy.

 

Manning didn't just run a high flying offense like some of the greats before him, he essentially became THE offensive system in the game's most important position. It's essentially like having an offensive coordinator on the field. The ability to stay in no-huddle all game and operate at high levels while having almost complete control over plays was un-heard of and is still not matched by ANY QB. Just look at how Curtis Painter faired when he tried to run the same system in Manning's absence. Manning's system was so refined yet simplistic in nature that it was nearly impossible to stop at times. It completely relied on the QB's cognitive ability to read and analyze a defense. The Colts essentially would 15-20 plays a game that they simply could check to at any time. Manning's ability to decipher a defense coupled with this system is something ONLY he has done to this point. Look at how he operates in Denver compared to his system in Indianapolis. Its essentially the same system with a few variations due to different coaches.

 

Please read this to get a more in-depth idea of what I'm trying to show you: http://smartfootball.com/offense/peyton-manning-and-tom-moores-indianapolis-colts-offense

 

^^^Very eye opening link by the way for anyone wanting to know more on Peyton's offense.

 

Again, you seem to equate winning all to the QB when Brady was winning Super Bowl's and winning regular season games but love to point out the team's bad defense's when he's lost them. You can't have it both ways.

 

And honestly, I think its very fair to compare Lebron's Cavaliers to Peyton's Colts during the times they were on those respective teams. In each of the season's both were gone, (Manning's injury, Lebron's F/A departure) the teams both finished with the worst records in their respective leagues. The Cavs finished with the top pick and took Kyrie Irving, the Colts took Andrew Luck. Yet, while Lebron and Peyton were on their teams, the teams both finished with great regular season records (Primarily because of their star players ability to not only carry but also improve the players around them) yet when they got to the post-season they frequently were ousted because they ran into teams that had more balanced or more overall talent/skill. The difference between basketball and football is that an individual player himself can carry his team a little bit further than in football because of pure numbers. There's 10 guys on a basketball court at a given time that contribute to both sides of the ball, with roughly 5-7 guys on the bench to contribute. While in football theres 22 guys on the field at a given time with 50+ guys on the team in total. Harder to carry when you have more possiblities of something out of your control happening (defense-offense-special teams).

I am not sure if you understand what "change the game" means. While I agree that Manning has been the best field general, no one in the league is copying his style of play which is probably for many reasons chief being that they can't read a defense as quickly or as well as him and most NFL teams do not want to run their offenses that fast.

 

To have changed the game, he would have to have brought in something that every other team is doing. I would argue that Brady has changed the game as he introduced the spread offense in 2007 which every team now runs and the last couple of years he has run the offense through the TE which many teams are also now copying to take advantage of the safety spot with big, fast TEs. And I believe it has been Peyton copying Brady's extreme hurry up offense that he introduced to the league last year because Peyton wanted to run the most plays like the Pats.

 

I am not sure what to tell you about the winning but that is how greatness is measured in any sport. Stats are just window dressing. And of course in the NFL the QB controls the game the most and therefore determines its outcome the most. A cool comparison in this regard that I heard on the radio yesterday is Andrew Luck and Sam Bradford. Both were top picks and both inherited lousy teams. Luck is 18-8 and Bradford is 20-37. The QB makes all the difference especially in today's passing league.

 

In terms of your Cavs comparison, do you think if you asked Peyton if his teams were good enough to win championships in Indy that his response would have been the same as Lebron's about the Cavs? I don't.

[amfootball]

The conversation has gone in a different direction since coaching was discussed, and I'm not going to get into a debate over Manning v Brady.  Colts fans are always going to pick Peyton, Pats fans are always going to pick Brady.  It's understandable and I can't help it that Pats fans are wrong ;).  

 

The idea that coaching is overrated is one of the more insane things I've read on this board.  All you need to do is look at the Chiefs record this year vs their record last year to tell you that, or look at what happened to the Saints the year Sean Payton was suspended.  If anything I'd call coaching underrated.  It's one of the reasons I consider Peyton the better QB to Brady (there's that argument I was trying to avoid).  Brady's gotten Belichick his entire career.  Peyton had Jim "PLAYOFFS?!?" Mora, Dungy (who I like and was a very good coach, but no Belichick), and Jim Caldwell, who I'm fairly certain I could outcoach.

Belichick did not become "the genius" until Brady arrived. He coached six seasons in Cleveland with a sub .500 record and one trip to the playoffs and was fired. In his first season (2000) with the Pats as HC he went 5-11 with Bledsoe and 0-2 to start 2001 until Brady stepped in and went 14-3 and a Lombardi. The rest is history. Bill helped make Brady but Brady made Bill too.

[Shane Bond]

To have changed the game, he would have to have brought in something that every other team is doing. I would argue that Brady has changed the game as he introduced the spread offense in 2007 which every team now runs and the last couple of years he has run the offense through the TE which many teams are also now copying to take advantage of the safety spot with big, fast TEs. And I believe it has been Peyton copying Brady's extreme hurry up offense that he introduced to the league last year because Peyton wanted to run the most plays like the Pats.

 

 

 

 

You clearly have no idea what you are talking ( surprises ).

 

Anything which happens in New England is Bill Belichick. Brady is one of the players who does whats been told. Just get that straight.

 

Peyton copying Brady??. That cracked me up. You havent really watched football, did you.

[Shane Bond]

Belichick did not become "the genius" until Brady arrived. He coached six seasons in Cleveland with a sub .500 record and one trip to the playoffs and was fired. In his first season (2000) with the Pats as HC he went 5-11 with Bledsoe and 0-2 to start 2001 until Brady stepped in and went 14-3 and a Lombardi. The rest is history. Bill helped make Brady but Brady made Bill too.

 

Did you ever watch the "The football life - Cleveland Browns". Go watch it first.

 

The way you talk , you probably must be 12. So google a name called "Ozzie Newsome" and read what he says about Belichick. Once you finish this assignment, we will go to the next one.

[amfootball]

You clearly have no idea what you are talking ( surprises ).

 

Anything which happens in New England is Bill Belichick. Brady is one of the players who does whats been told. Just get that straight.

 

Peyton copying Brady??. That cracked me up. You havent really watched football, did you.

Right, Brady is running the offense on the field not Bill. Glad we agree. And Tom Moore invented the Indy O.

 

In terms of the hurry up,

"Patriots Taught Broncos How to Play a Faster Tempo on Offense"  http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24575734/patriots-taught-broncos-faster-tempo-offense

[Shane Bond]

Right, Brady is running the offense on the field not Bill. Glad we agree. And Tom Moore invented the Indy O.

 

In terms of the hurry up,

"Patriots Taught Broncos How to Play a Faster Tempo on Offense"  http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24575734/patriots-taught-broncos-faster-tempo-offense

 

Peyton and Tom Moore together. There are several articles.

 

No huddle and sign language is prevalent with Peyton since his Colts days and it goes ways. Its well documented with Peyton and his no huddle offense.

[amfootball]

Peyton and Tom Moore together. There are several articles.

 

No huddle and sign language is prevalent with Peyton since his Colts days and it goes ways. Its well documented with Peyton and his no huddle offense.

lol. Do you think Brady has no voice in the Pats chameleon offense that changes season to season? Everyone knows it is HIM primarily with Josh as his sound board.

 

No response to the hurry up? Didn't think so.

[Shane Bond]

lol. Do you think Brady has no voice in the Pats chameleon offense that changes season to season? Everyone knows it is HIM primarily with Josh as his sound board.

 

No response to the hurry up? Didn't think so.

 

I gave a response. Its the other way around. Read carefully.

 

I am sure Brady has his input. Strategy, approval and final decisions are Belichick. It would be ignorant to debate that.

[amfootball]

I gave a response. Its the other way around. Read carefully.

 

I am sure Brady has his input. Strategy, approval and final decisions are Belichick. It would be ignorant to debate that.

lol. You need to re-read the Post article then. Manning has been copying the Pats extreme hurry up. I would credit the original hurry up to Jim Kelly and the Bills.

 

 

Manning does not have complete autonomy either. No QB does. Not in this day and age.

[amfootball]

I always thought Rodney was overrated. 

I agree. I always thought Milloy was better.

 

I thought Sanders was a much better playmaker. I know he was injured a lot but he was a beast when healthy.

[Shane Bond]

lol. You need to re-read the Post article then. Manning has been copying the Pats extreme hurry up. I would credit the original hurry up to Jim Kelly and the Bills.

 

 

Manning does not have complete autonomy either. No QB does. Not in this day and age.

 

Manning is doing it since 2000. Not sure if Brady was even playing at that time.

 

I did.

[amfootball]

Manning is doing it since 2000. Not sure if Brady was even playing at that time.

 

I did.

Jim Kelly was doing it in the 80's. Manning improved upon that and now the Pats took it to the extreme hurry up which Peyton is copying.

[Shane Bond]

Jim Kelly was doing it in the 80's. Manning improved upon that and now the Pats took it to the extreme hurry up which Peyton is copying.

 

Thats hilarious about Peyton copying hurry up. Keep that going.

[amfootball]

Thats hilarious about Peyton copying hurry up. Keep that going.

He has said it himself. He talked about it after last year's game when the Pats did a turbo offense on the Broncos.

[Moose Of Woe]

Frank Tarkenton would have won twelve in New England. In ten seasons.

[amfootball]

Frank Tarkenton would have won twelve in New England. In ten seasons.

Only 12? ;)

[The Old Crow]

I generally like your posts a lot but did you just say you don't think Bill is a better coach then Dungy?? Really?

I knew you wouldn't like this thread ! Lol

[amfootball]

I knew you wouldn't like this thread ! Lol

lol. Actually I do like it as I am not sure how many ways people can make excuses for Manning. We are now at the point that we have to imagine how he would have done with Brady's teams? How about Joe's teams? You had some even better defenses for Manning to lose with.

[bluebombers87]

Peyton and Tom Moore together. There are several articles.

No huddle and sign language is prevalent with Peyton since his Colts days and it goes ways. Its well documented with Peyton and his no huddle offense.

Actually it says Bill B. should get the credit.

EDIT* Sorry meant to reply to Amfootball.

[Restored]

I am not sure if you understand what "change the game" means. While I agree that Manning has been the best field general, no one in the league is copying his style of play which is probably for many reasons chief being that they can't read a defense as quickly or as well as him and most NFL teams do not want to run their offenses that fast.

 

To have changed the game, he would have to have brought in something that every other team is doing. I would argue that Brady has changed the game as he introduced the spread offense in 2007 which every team now runs and the last couple of years he has run the offense through the TE which many teams are also now copying to take advantage of the safety spot with big, fast TEs. And I believe it has been Peyton copying Brady's extreme hurry up offense that he introduced to the league last year because Peyton wanted to run the most plays like the Pats.

 

I am not sure what to tell you about the winning but that is how greatness is measured in any sport. Stats are just window dressing. And of course in the NFL the QB controls the game the most and therefore determines its outcome the most. A cool comparison in this regard that I heard on the radio yesterday is Andrew Luck and Sam Bradford. Both were top picks and both inherited lousy teams. Luck is 18-8 and Bradford is 20-37. The QB makes all the difference especially in today's passing league.

 

In terms of your Cavs comparison, do you think if you asked Peyton if his teams were good enough to win championships in Indy that his response would have been the same as Lebron's about the Cavs? I don't.

I think you don't understand the meaning actually. Manning has done something that no one in the game before and after him has done and set records while doing it. That is revolutionary. Now when kids come out of college and into the pros, coaches evaluate their ability to decipher a defense and run a no-huddle in the way Manning has (numerous NFL scouts on record with this). Manning is the only player to run the type of system he has ran for years. And when you are the only one to do it, you've changed the game.

 

Again, Brady hasn't done anything that his coaching staff didn't put in place for him. My proof is simply to look at 2008. The Patriots lost their all-world QB and ran the exact same system that caters to a QB's ability to read and decipher a defense minimally (which is why Matt Cassel had moderate success that season). Did Brady draft those TE's? Did Brady help create the offense that simply involves throwing to a giant TE down the seam 15 times a game? I doubt it. Manning's system required much more cognitive ability, which is why he has been the only one to do it. Tempo is nothing new to the NFL, so Manning and Brady both running their offenses at a high pace isn't revolutionary to either of them. It's HOW they run it that is.

 

I'm sorry but winning isn't the only way how greatness is measured in any sport. It plays a factor no doubt, and its arguably the biggest but its certainly not the only one. Stats show individual greatness while winning will show team greatness. Brady had better teams while Manning had better stats.

 

Just because their responses would be different doesn't mean it wasn't the same case. While Peyton and Lebron are different guys in different sports, their teams were built in similar fashion with similar results.

[amfootball]

I think you don't understand the meaning actually. Manning has done something that no one in the game before and after him has done and set records while doing it. That is revolutionary. Now when kids come out of college and into the pros, coaches evaluate their ability to decipher a defense and run a no-huddle in the way Manning has (numerous NFL scouts on record with this). Manning is the only player to run the type of system he has ran for years. And when you are the only one to do it, you've changed the game.

 

Again, Brady hasn't done anything that his coaching staff didn't put in place for him. My proof is simply to look at 2008. The Patriots lost their all-world QB and ran the exact same system that caters to a QB's ability to read and decipher a defense minimally (which is why Matt Cassel had moderate success that season). Did Brady draft those TE's? Did Brady help create the offense that simply involves throwing to a giant TE down the seam 15 times a game? I doubt it. Manning's system required much more cognitive ability, which is why he has been the only one to do it. Tempo is nothing new to the NFL, so Manning and Brady both running their offenses at a high pace isn't revolutionary to either of them. It's HOW they run it that is.

 

I'm sorry but winning isn't the only way how greatness is measured in any sport. It plays a factor no doubt, and its arguably the biggest but its certainly not the only one. Stats show individual greatness while winning will show team greatness. Brady had better teams while Manning had better stats.

 

Just because their responses would be different doesn't mean it wasn't the same case. While Peyton and Lebron are different guys in different sports, their teams were built in similar fashion with similar results.

If no one is copying what Manning has done then he has not changed the game. We can agree to disagree on that.

 

You can't have it both ways and say Brady didn't draft the players or make the team and then say Manning somehow did for the Colts. Polian put those all-star casts around Manning which allow him to rack up all those stats and Moore developed the Indy offense. Still, credit Manning for running it and playing well with those teams but same goes for Brady. Neither did it on his own - lots of help from GM, coaches and supporting cast but still they are the ones at the helm directing the ship.

 

I have no idea what makes you think Lebron's Cavs were similar to the Colts. Lebron did not have one superstar or HoF player along side him. Manning had multiple. The reason why Lebron went to Miami is because of D. Wade and Bosh. Manning already had that with Harrison, Wayne, Clark, James, Freeney, Mathias. Those Colts teams were stacked. Lebron's Cavs were not.

 

While I agree winning is not the only criteria but the most important, Brady has all the other areas as well - gaudy stats, league MVPs, passing records, perfect 16-0 regular season. And the rings and most playoff wins all time.

[Restored]

If no one is copying what Manning has done then he has not changed the game. We can agree to disagree on that.

 

You can't have it both ways and say Brady didn't draft the players or make the team and then say Manning somehow did for the Colts. Polian put those all-star casts around Manning which allow him to rack up all those stats and Moore developed the Indy offense. Still, credit Manning for running it and playing well with those teams but same goes for Brady. Neither did it on his own - lots of help from GM, coaches and supporting cast but still they are the ones at the helm directing the ship.

 

I have no idea what makes you think Lebron's Cavs were similar to the Colts. Lebron did not have one superstar or HoF player along side him. Manning had multiple. The reason why Lebron went to Miami is because of D. Wade and Bosh. Manning already had that with Harrison, Wayne, Clark, James, Freeney, Matthias. Those Colts teams were stacked. Lebron's Cavs were not.

 

While I agree winning is not the only criteria but the most important, Brady has all the other areas as well - gaudy stats, league MVPs, passing records, perfect 16-0 regular season. And the rings and most playoff wins all time.

 

No one is copying Manning because, as you said by the way, teams are unable or unwilling to run that type of system because they CANT. It's one thing to choose to not run the spread offense or the wildcat but its another to not be able to run a system because they simply can't even if they tried.

 

I never said that Manning drafted his players. I will however say that Manning was indeed responsible for helping build that type of offensive system that is strictly unique to him (which is why he's running nearly the exact same offense in Denver). Again, you fail to address the 2008 season that proves my point. I'll help you out a bit too. The 2011 Colts tried to run the exact same offensive system that Manning ran with two different quarterbacks (one who had just arrived, one that had been in the system for a few seasons) and both failed tremendously. The difference is, Manning's system required a lot more out of the QB and cognitive ability that very few, if any could match. Meanwhile Brady's system is designed and catered for him by his coaches and could be ran by a mid-level QB with success (which Cassel did in 2008). No disrespect to Brady, but i'd argue that he probably couldn't run Peyton's system at the same level Manning does.

 

Do some research on Lebron's cavs and understand the pure numbers as well. For every 4-5 players Manning had that were great, it would be the same as having 1 one the Cavs given the player ratio difference. With that said, Lebron had Mo Williams, who was an all-star. They also had Shaq at a point in time as well who mind you is a surefire HOFer. Lebron had even gotten to The Finals with one of those teams as well. But again, the talent on his team was inferior to other TEAMS in the same way that Manning's were.

 

Three of those categories you listed (Stats, MVPs, Passing Records), Peyton is better in. The 16-0 regular season accomplishment is still the most forgotten record in history outside of New England.

[amfootball]

No one is copying Manning because, as you said by the way, teams are unable or unwilling to run that type of system because they CANT. It's one thing to choose to not run the spread offense or the wildcat but its another to not be able to run a system because they simply can't even if they tried.

 

I never said that Manning drafted his players. I will however say that Manning was indeed responsible for helping build that type of offensive system that is strictly unique to him (which is why he's running nearly the exact same offense in Denver). Again, you fail to address the 2008 season that proves my point. I'll help you out a bit too. The 2011 Colts tried to run the exact same offensive system that Manning ran with two different quarterbacks (one who had just arrived, one that had been in the system for a few seasons) and both failed tremendously. The difference is, Manning's system required a lot more out of the QB and cognitive ability that very few, if any could match. Meanwhile Brady's system is designed and catered for him by his coaches and could be ran by a mid-level QB with success (which Cassel did in 2008). No disrespect to Brady, but i'd argue that he probably couldn't run Peyton's system at the same level Manning does.

 

Do some research on Lebron's cavs and understand the pure numbers as well. For every 4-5 players Manning had that were great, it would be the same as having 1 one the Cavs given the player ratio difference. With that said, Lebron had Mo Williams, who was an all-star. They also had Shaq at a point in time as well who mind you is a surefire HOFer. Lebron had even gotten to The Finals with one of those teams as well. But again, the talent on his team was inferior to other TEAMS in the same way that Manning's were.

 

Three of those categories you listed (Stats, MVPs, Passing Records), Peyton is better in. The 16-0 regular season accomplishment is still the most forgotten record in history outside of New England.

This is my last post. I am not sure what you are arguing in terms of Manning's style of play but the fact that no one is copying it means it has not changed the game. And if it and he were so effective then he would have more playoff wins then Brady and he doesn't. In fact he has the most losses so one could argue that Brady's system of playing has had far better results. Which would your rather have? A system that racks up stats or playoff wins and rings?

 

And 2008 was one season in which Cassell took a 16-0 team to an 11-5 record and NO playoffs because he could not beat divisional opponents. I think the Pats system would make most QBs good but with Brady the O is extraordinary.

 

We can agree to disagree on the Cavs/Colts comparison but this cannot be denied. Since Lebron has left he has two rings and maybe on his way to this third this year. It was said last year that Manning had the best team of his career in Denver with a top 5 D and top 5 run game to go along with a lethal passing game. Same result though - one and done. We will see what this year holds but he has maybe the best offense to ever step on a field and a D that is improving every week with the return of Miller. If he does not get it done this year then what will the excuse be? I can only imagine on this board ...

[shecolt]

lol. Actually I do like it as I am not sure how many ways people can make excuses for Manning. We are now at the point that we have to imagine how he would have done with Brady's teams? How about Joe's teams? You had some even better defenses for Manning to lose with.

 

You started off in this thread by putting down Harrison.

 

You have made numerous posts as to why Brady is better than Peyton and have made several negative posts regarding Peyton.

 

At least, you seem to have given up pretending that you were defending Peyton because you felt Harrison's comments were degrading to him. 

 

Harrison merely gave his opinion and it is a hypothetical.  Unless we could go back in time and switch Peyton and Brady (sorta an NFL version of "It's a Wonderful Life") we would never know for sure what the outcome would be.

 

But, the mere thought that Peyton may have just as many rings as Brady had he been the QB on those teams seems to have sent you into a spin as if Harrison had just placed a curse on your firstborn. 

 

So, I'm wondering . . . why does the mere thought of such a hypothetical upset you so?

[Shane Bond]

He has said it himself. He talked about it after last year's game when the Pats did a turbo offense on the Broncos.

 

You are getting misunderstood with what happend last year. Its not Manning, its the Denver D led by Joe Mays who got caught up with it and after that game, he really never played.

[Restored]

This is my last post. I am not sure what you are arguing in terms of Manning's style of play but the fact that no one is copying it means it has not changed the game. And if it and he were so effective then he would have more playoff wins then Brady and he doesn't. In fact he has the most losses so one could argue that Brady's system of playing has had far better results. Which would your rather have? A system that racks up stats or playoff wins and rings?

 

And 2008 was one season in which Cassell took a 16-0 team to an 11-5 record and NO playoffs because he could not beat divisional opponents. I think the Pats system would make most QBs good but with Brady the O is extraordinary.

 

We can agree to disagree on the Cavs/Colts comparison but this cannot be denied. Since Lebron has left he has two rings and maybe on his way to this third this year. It was said last year that Manning had the best team of his career in Denver with a top 5 D and top 5 run game to go along with a lethal passing game. Same result though - one and done. We will see what this year holds but he has maybe the best offense to ever step on a field and a D that is improving every week with the return of Miller. If he does not get it done this year then what will the excuse be? I can only imagine on this board ...

 

People aren't copying the exact system but teams are indeed copying the no-huddle/decipher abilities. NFL coaches are on record that they have asked their QB's to do a lot of the same things that Peyton Manning does, even now in the college ranks. Manning set the bar for this type of offense and everyone else is trying to catch up. If you don't see that, then I suggest you do more research on offenses, in particular the no-huddle. Again, its not Brady's system because it hasn't been successfully ran by just him. And even more so, other players have Brady's offense with success. No one else has with Manning's.

 

Oh and last time I checked, it takes a defense and special teams and offense performing well to win a championship. You don't win a Super Bowl because you have a really good offense with no defense. I figured a Patriots fan would know this better than anyone given all the years they had great defenses that helped them win Super Bowls.

 

Thanks for proving my point about Cassel and the BB system. Any QB can go in and be good in that system. I'll agree that Brady makes it a great offense, but I think a lot of his success has to be attributed to the system as well. Would be interested to see how Brady would of faired in Manning's shoes in having to switch teams late in his career.

 

You do realize that Lebron's first year in Miami they didn't the championship right? The same way that Manning didn't win it his first year on a new team. What's been the Patriots excuse for not winning a Super Bowl since Spygate? I've heard a number of excuses and can't wait to see the talk about Brady/BB's window closing after another playoff loss.

[amfootball]

You do realize that Lebron's first year in Miami they didn't the championship right? The same way that Manning didn't win it his first year on a new team. What's been the Patriots excuse for not winning a Super Bowl since Spygate? I've heard a number of excuses and can't wait to see the talk about Brady/BB's window closing after another playoff loss.

That is fair. Let's see how things shake out in year two. But I have my doubts that he even finishes the season. This year his age and injuries have caught up with him. Beginning tomorrow night he has a stretch of cold games staring him in the face - NE, KC, Denver home games. And of course the playoff picture in the AFC is shaping out to be all cold weather teams as well with the Pats, Bengals, Chiefs, Ravens/Jets/Steelers. The only non-cold weather team is the Colts and they already beat him and I would think that is the last place he wants to play. And of course the SB is in NY as well. A tall order indeed but we'll see how it turns out.

 

And the Pats have made two SB appearances since spygate losing both by a couple of plays. Such is life.

[amfootball]

You are getting misunderstood with what happend last year. Its not Manning, its the Denver D led by Joe Mays who got caught up with it and after that game, he really never played.

 

Peyton Manning wants faster offense

The Denver Broncos finished tied for the fourth-most offensive plays last season, but Peyton Manning wants his team to play even faster in 2013.

Denver ran 1,090 offensive plays during the regular season, an average of 68.13 per game, but Manning wants the Broncos to get closer to the league-leading New England Patriots, who ran 1,191 plays (74.44 per game). The Broncos also finished second in scoring offense to the Patriots last season, with 481 points compared to the Patriots' 557.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9181794/peyton-manning-wants-denver-broncos-play-faster-2013

[Shane Bond]

Peyton Manning wants faster offense

The Denver Broncos finished tied for the fourth-most offensive plays last season, but Peyton Manning wants his team to play even faster in 2013.

Denver ran 1,090 offensive plays during the regular season, an average of 68.13 per game, but Manning wants the Broncos to get closer to the league-leading New England Patriots, who ran 1,191 plays (74.44 per game). The Broncos also finished second in scoring offense to the Patriots last season, with 481 points compared to the Patriots' 557.

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/9181794/peyton-manning-wants-denver-broncos-play-faster-2013

 

Nothing new you are adding. Peyton wants it faster "compared" to 2012 Broncos as it was a new team and they are jelling. You are making it out of context saying he is copying. 

 

Compare Colts team at his peak with Manning and 2012 Broncos, Broncos were slower coz with the timing and rep with receivers, new coaches etc. I am not going to add anymore to this.

[amfootball]

Nothing new you are adding. Peyton wants it faster "compared" to 2012 Broncos as it was a new team and they are jelling. You are making it out of context saying he is copying. 

 

Compare Colts team at his peak with Manning and 2012 Broncos, Broncos were slower coz with the timing and rep with receivers, new coaches etc.

He has said numerous times that he wants to run as many plays as the Pats as they led the league. It is right there for you to see. You were claiming it was the defense. It was Peyton too saying it and copying the Pats. Why not? More plays is a good thing.