Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

[Dustin]

Pats* own Peyton and so did the Chargers when he was with the Colts in post season games.

Fixed.

[Andy]

Lol, I saw this thread, saw the 8 pages, and assumed that it was all about Brady vs Manning.

 

I'm not even going to look through it, because it definitely is Manning vs Brady.

 

What Harrison is saying is that Manning is at least as good as Brady. 

[coming on strong]

Peyton is the best regular season QB of all time.

 

"IF" he's the best then he'd have more than one SB ring.  He has one ring where the Colts beat Rex Grossman and the Bears and got to that game due to Caldwell on the Pats dropping one ball in the AFC title game...the same year the Pats were supposedly "cheating".  Which shows no video camera gave any competitive edge or the Pats would have known all the plays the Colts were running. 

 

Colts lost to the Saints not due to any bounty scandal as there were no cheap shots in that game as there are plenty of teams who were and are much dirtier than the Saints ever were (Ravens, Steelers).  Ask Reggie Wayne as well what he thinks of that psychopath Bernard Pollard who has serious mental issues.

 

And this thread is proof that Colts fans can't get over Peyton and how insecure they are with how Brady and the Pats have had more success.  Colts were taken out of the playoffs by the Pats, Chargers, Steelers, Jets and Peyton and the Broncos were taken out by the Ravens last year as Peyton turned into the same old Peyton by throwing an INT at the worst possible time.  I guess all those teams were using spy cameras.  lol

 

Peyton better hope he and the Broncos get home field through out the playoffs and it's nice an warm where the Broncos organization makes sure the Broncos' field is in prestine perfect condition or they might have to put down artificial turf and build a dome over Mile High Stadium.  The Super Bowl is in New Jersey this year at Giant Stadium in February.  Well the odds of having bad weather are pretty good.  I would bet teams like the Seahawks and obviously the Giants would have the edge in that game if they played the Broncos due to some obvious reasons.

See pats fans choice to ignore the underlining issues, and only use words like "peyton choked"  which when i hear that i kinda don't take it seriously since manning ,and brady's playoff numbers are almost equal on every level.

 

Now like i was saying people ignore a lot of things when comparing both qb's playoff success , for instance schemes coaching and type of personnel. The patriots schemes , and personnel had much more to do with the 3 superbowls then brady himself. People seem to forget how bad brady's stats were those 3 seasons even in the post season throwing  1 td  the whole 2001 playoffs yet still winning a superbowl . The patriots played tight man coverage roughed up wrs and were bigger and more physical than the colts defenses which played soft cover 2 rarely blitzing . 

 

You pats fans fail to realize how much of a mismatch it was for the colts in the playoffs playing the soft cover 2 against big physical teams who can run the ball and throw short passes.  As good as freeny and mathis were at speed edge rushing they were bad against the run and would rush wide leaving a huge hole in the defensive line. The patriots matched up great against the colts every time they played them, brady just played game manager checking it down against the zone. While manning was getting heavy pressure while his wr's were being manhandled.

 

Brady had one of the greatest coach of all time in bill belichick , pats fans love to throw out how he  was so bad before the pats but fail to realize he had something special in cleveland ,but wasn't fairly given a good amount of time. look at the staff he had with him how many future gms and good coaches did he have with him. If he stayed no doubt he could have turned the browns around. He is one of the best at game planing and taking away the opponents best weapon , and making adjustments look at all the teams that win the superbowl all have good coaching peyton never had that luxury.

 

Look at all the talent the pats had on defense , the coaching offensive line , and very underrated wrs who pats fans say sucked but with brady's offensive scheme of short quick passes the pats didn't need big name wrs and were very smart not to waste money on them bottom line is pats teams were built for the playoffs while the colts teams were built around manning throwing 300 yard multiple td games to win that's why the colts collapsed when peyton left but when brady left for a year  garbage can't even become a starter in the league matt cassell looked like the new coming of brady.

 

If you put manning on the pats and brady on the colts i bet the same thing would happen peyton would have more superbowls and better playoff record, but less regular season stats. While if you put brady on the colts he would have much better regular season numbers but would never win 3 superbowls maybe not even one.

[Sports Central1]

 

What Harrison is saying is that Manning is at least as good as Brady. 

 

I agree, in fact in some if not many ways Peyton is better than Brady and I agree.  Some things Peyton can do that Brady can't.  But I think there are many fans including many former NFL players who are now analysts in the media have said that in certain key situations they would prefer Brady to have the ball in his hands on a key drive in the post season.  I think that is the consensus among many.  Brady is more "clutch" often, but Brady does throw INT's too in key situations.

 

If using a video camera mattered well after spy gate since 2007 the Pats are 4-2 against the Colts and Brady is 3-1 against Peyton.

 

Pats beat the Colts in 2007, 2010, 2011, 2012.  Peyton was injured in 2011.

 

Brady beat Peyton in 2007, 2010, 2012.

 

Colts with Peyton beat the Pats in 2008 and 2009.  Brady was injured in 2008.

[Jules]

Oh geez.....

 

You know what? In the end both are all time great QBs no matter what number you want to place next to their names.

 

I just am not sure I am a fan of role playing here and saying Peyton could have/would have done this with the Pats or Brady would have/could have done this with the Colts.

 

It was just meant to be......how both careers have gone so far. Manning did carry us more then Brady in the past IMO but Brady also has been carrying the Patriots A LOT more in recent years too and has done a terrific job in that regard. I think both have proven themselves just fine......

 

Besides, both careers are actually a tad enhanced by the other strangely.......the games against each other have been among the most memorable we have seen.

[coming on strong]

Since 2005 i watched brady struggle in the post season thowing bad picks at bad moments throwing the game winning pick against the colts in the 2006 championship game having 2 below average games against the giants losing 2 superbowls 06 vs SD - 3 ints (should have been 5-6) and threw the game clinching interception to the chargers but was bailed out when his teamate stripped it.07 AFCCG vs SD - facing a crippled charger team without its #1 star player, brady threw 3 interceptions including one in the endzone, however he was carried to another SB birth by the fact his defense bailed him out again holding the opposition to 12 points.


Brady has been bailed out by his defense on so many different levels throwing multiple interception games but still winning he isn't mr. clutch

[Sports Central1]

See pats fans choice to ignore the underlining issues, and only use words like "peyton choked"  which when i hear that i kinda don't take it seriously since manning ,and brady's playoff numbers are almost equal on every level.

 

Now like i was saying people ignore a lot of things when comparing both qb's playoff success , for instance schemes coaching and type of personnel. The patriots schemes , and personnel had much more to do with the 3 superbowls then brady himself. People seem to forget how bad brady's stats were those 3 seasons even in the post season throwing  1 td  the whole 2001 playoffs yet still winning a superbowl . The patriots played tight man coverage roughed up wrs and were bigger and more physical than the colts defenses which played soft cover 2 rarely blitzing . 

 

You pats fans fail to realize how much of a mismatch it was for the colts in the playoffs playing the soft cover 2 against big physical teams who can run the ball and throw short passes.  As good as freeny and mathis were at speed edge rushing they were bad against the run and would rush wide leaving a huge hole in the defensive line. The patriots matched up great against the colts every time they played them, brady just played game manager checking it down against the zone. While manning was getting heavy pressure while his wr's were being manhandled.

 

Brady had one of the greatest coach of all time in bill belichick , pats fans love to throw out how he  was so bad before the pats but fail to realize he had something special in cleveland ,but wasn't fairly given a good amount of time. look at the staff he had with him how many future gms and good coaches did he have with him. If he stayed no doubt he could have turned the browns around. He is one of the best at game planing and taking away the opponents best weapon , and making adjustments look at all the teams that win the superbowl all have good coaching peyton never had that luxury.

 

Look at all the talent the pats had on defense , the coaching offensive line , and very underrated wrs who pats fans say sucked but with brady's offensive scheme of short quick passes the pats didn't need big name wrs and were very smart not to waste money on them bottom line is pats teams were built for the playoffs while the colts teams were built around manning throwing 300 yard multiple td games to win that's why the colts collapsed when peyton left but when brady left for a year  garbage can't even become a starter in the league matt cassell looked like the new coming of brady.

 

If you put manning on the pats and brady on the colts i bet the same thing would happen peyton would have more superbowls and better playoff record, but less regular season stats. While if you put brady on the colts he would have much better regular season numbers but would never win 3 superbowls maybe not even one.

 

Some of my comments and opinions above was some trash talking mixed in for a little humor.  Please understand.  I hope Colts fans and people understand that, this is a sports forum not a Harvard classroom debate on economics.

 

You make some good points that are accurate and that I agree with.

 

Brady before 2007 was more like a Big Ben or Eli Manning type QB = Mediocre to average stats but just good enough to get it done with a great Defense.  And he had Adam Vinatieri.  I wish the Pats would go back to that style as it's proven to win Super Bowls.

 

Peyton before 2007 was an offensive power house machine who put up great numbers but their defense wasn't great.  The Colts' D was pretty good in 2006 when they relied on their D more and Adam Vinatieri.  Adam kicked 5 field goals in 2009 to beat the Ravens in the playoffs.

 

With regards to Belichick, he really didn't have success before the Pats and before Brady.  But we give too much credit to Belichick and we either forget or not give enough credit to offensive coordinator Charlie Weis and defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel.  Pats have not had a real defensive coordinator since Crennel.  I wish we'd have someone like Wade Phillips or even Rex Ryan as D coordinator and YES I just said Rex Ryan.  We Pats fans do envy the way the Giants and Ravens are set up and any Pats' fan who says other wise is lying.

 

With regards to Matt Cassel at QB.  He took over for Brady and a team that just came off an 18-1 season and still had Randy Moss and Wes Welker in place.  They still had Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison out there.   They didn't make the playoffs.  If Matt Cassel played on the Colts in 2011 I think he would have helped the Colts win at least 6 games.

 

With regards to Brady's vs Peyton's individual stats through out their careers.  Well Peyton has played 3 and a half seasons more than Brady has.  Peyton's first NFL game was in 1998.  Brady's was in 2001 and he didn't play that full season as Drew Bledsoe was still the starting QB and played part of that season...

 

So if someone can do the math and try to calculate it.  What if Brady's first game was in 1998 and played all of 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001.  What would Brady's career stats be today?  Or what if Peyton's first game was in the second half of 2001?

[Sports Central1]

Since 2005 i watched brady struggle in the post season thowing bad picks at bad moments throwing the game winning pick against the colts in the 2006 championship game having 2 below average games against the giants losing 2 superbowls 06 vs SD - 3 ints (should have been 5-6) and threw the game clinching interception to the chargers but was bailed out when his teamate stripped it.07 AFCCG vs SD - facing a crippled charger team without its #1 star player, brady threw 3 interceptions including one in the endzone, however he was carried to another SB birth by the fact his defense bailed him out again holding the opposition to 12 points.

Brady has been bailed out by his defense on so many different levels throwing multiple interception games but still winning he isn't mr. clutch

 

Brady is clutch but no one said he's perfect.  

 

2007 Super Bowl = The Pats would have won the 2007 Super Bowl if Asante Samuel caught that throw that went right through his hands and the Pats' D couldn't get off the field in that game. The Giants' pass rush that season was one of the greatest pass rushes in the history of the NFL.  The Pats' offensive line in that game was completely over powered.

 

2011 Super Bowl = Brady broke the all time record in a Super Bowl for most consecutive completions in that game.  Wes Welker dropped a ball right in his hands that he partly caught.  When the Patriots had the ball last in that Super Bowl it was Aaron Hernandez and either Dion Branch or Brandon Lloyd that dropped two to three passes right in their hands that was more easy catches.  Patriots offensive line has had big trouble stopping the Giants' pass rush and blitzing since 2007.  Patriots had one of the worsts Defenses of all time to ever make the playoffs and make the Super Bowl that year as even Troy Aikmen said.  They had Julian Edelman out there playing DB.  There have been times where the Pats' D cost them the games.  But yes, Brady has made many mistakes.  He also one of the winningest QB's of all time on game winning drives.

 

2012 season = The Pats' D was only good when Aquib Talib and Alfonso Dennard were playing at CB.  They were a completely bi-polar team on defense when Talib is in there and when he's not.  Once Talib injured his hip and left the game in the AFC title game against the Ravens I knew the game was over.  Pats couldn't stop the pass.  They had no one to cover Boldin.  Psycho lunatic Bernard Pollard knocked out Ridley and fumbled the ball which handed the ball over to the Ravens.

[coming on strong]

Some of my comments and opinions above was some trash talking mixed in for a little humor.  Please understand.  I hope Colts fans and people understand that, this is a sports forum not a Harvard classroom debate on economics.

 

You make some good points that are accurate and that I agree with.

 

Brady before 2007 was more like a Big Ben or Eli Manning type QB = Mediocre to average stats but just good enough to get it done with a great Defense.  And he had Adam Vinatieri.  I wish the Pats would go back to that style as it's proven to win Super Bowls.

 

Peyton before 2007 was an offensive power house machine who put up great numbers but their defense wasn't great.  The Colts' D was pretty good in 2006 when they relied on their D more and Adam Vinatieri.  Adam kicked 5 field goals in 2009 to beat the Ravens in the playoffs.

 

With regards to Belichick, he really didn't have success before the Pats and before Brady.  But we give too much credit to Belichick and we either forget or not give enough credit to offensive coordinator Charlie Weis and defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel.  Pats have not had a real defensive coordinator since Crennel.  I wish we'd have someone like Wade Phillips or even Rex Ryan as D coordinator and YES I just said Rex Ryan.  We Pats fans do envy the way the Giants and Ravens are set up and any Pats' fan who says other wise is lying.

 

With regards to Matt Cassel at QB.  He took over for Brady and a team that just came off an 18-1 season and still had Randy Moss and Wes Welker in place.  They still had Richard Seymour and Rodney Harrison out there.   They didn't make the playoffs.  If Matt Cassel played on the Colts in 2011 I think he would have helped the Colts win at least 6 games.

 

With regards to Brady's vs Peyton's individual stats through out their careers.  Well Peyton has played 3 and a half seasons more than Brady has.  Peyton's first NFL game was in 1998.  Brady's was in 2001 and he didn't play that full season as Drew Bledsoe was still the starting QB and played part of that season...

 

So if someone can do the math and try to calculate it.  What if Brady's first game was in 1998 and played all of 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001.  What would Brady's career stats be today?  Or what if Peyton's first game was in the second half of 2001?

I don't mean to mock brady just prove there is no such thing as clutch, it depends on match ups schemes game planning no one qb wants it more. Peyton played just the same as brady and had bad luck putting his team in position to win games with a minute left several times only to watch his defense get beat.

 

Just like last year peyton  gives the broncos a lead then has a chance to get a first down and the broncos win but coach fox wouldn't let him throw the ball only run. then with 30 seconds 0 timeouts down 7 points the ravens offense had to go 70 yards to tie the game and flacco throws a hail mary type pass to tie the game but peyton choked......

[Superman]

 

What Harrison is saying is that Manning is at least as good as Brady. 

 

I'm not even going to go that far. I'm not sure Harrison thinks that. I'm pretty sure Harrison has spent many years saying he prefers Brady.

 

What I think Harrison was saying is that the Patriots didn't need Brady to do as much as the Colts asked Manning to do. So he thinks Manning is good enough to have done what the Pats needed Brady to do. Not necessarily that he thinks Manning is better, just that he thinks Manning is good enough to have played that role. His comment doesn't really speak to who he thinks is better. His comment is about who had the better team around them, and which player was asked to carry more of the burden.

 

We always call this the cake vs. pie argument. Harrison is saying that the Pats were a nice meal, and you could have finished it off with either dessert. Replace pie with cake and it's still a good meal.

[coming on strong]

Brady is clutch but no one said he's perfect.  

 

2007 Super Bowl = The Pats would have won the 2007 Super Bowl if Asante Samuel caught that throw that went right through his hands and the Pats' D couldn't get off the field in that game. The Giants' pass rush that season was one of the greatest pass rushes in the history of the NFL.  The Pats' offensive line in that game was completely over powered.

 

2011 Super Bowl = Brady broke the all time record in a Super Bowl for most consecutive completions in that game.  Wes Welker dropped a ball right in his hands that he partly caught.  When the Patriots had the ball last in that Super Bowl it was Aaron Hernandez and either Dion Branch or Brandon Lloyd that dropped two to three passes right in their hands that was more easy catches.  Patriots offensive line has had big trouble stopping the Giants' pass rush and blitzing since 2007.  Patriots had one of the worsts Defenses of all time to ever make the playoffs and make the Super Bowl that year as even Troy Aikmen said.  They had Julian Edelman out there playing DB.  There have been times where the Pats' D cost them the games.  But yes, Brady has made many mistakes.  He also one of the winningest QB's of all time on game winning drives.

 

2012 season = The Pats' D was only good when Aquib Talib and Alfonso Dennard were playing at CB.  They were a completely bi-polar team on defense when Talib is in there and when he's not.  Once Talib injured his hip and left the game in the AFC title game against the Ravens I knew the game was over.  Pats couldn't stop the pass.  They had no one to cover Boldin.  Psycho lunatic Bernard Pollard knocked out Ridley and fumbled the ball which handed the ball over to the Ravens.

There is no such thing as clutch i am trying to say every player had up and  downs in the playoffs , but rings is won by coaching game planing, getting the right match ups having a complete team. Brady is a hall of famer no doubt and one of the best ever.

[Superman]

Oh geez.....

 

You know what? In the end both are all time great QBs no matter what number you want to place next to their names.

 

I just am not sure I am a fan of role playing here and saying Peyton could have/would have done this with the Pats or Brady would have/could have done this with the Colts.

 

It was just meant to be......how both careers have gone so far. Manning did carry us more then Brady in the past IMO but Brady also has been carrying the Patriots A LOT more in recent years too and has done a terrific job in that regard. I think both have proven themselves just fine......

 

Besides, both careers are actually a tad enhanced by the other strangely.......the games against each other have been among the most memorable we have seen.

 

That's totally fine. But that's exactly what Harrison did with his comments. Manning fans have said that for many years now, and it's been mocked derisively. Now, with Harrison saying it, it lends some credence to the argument.

 

You can't answer hypotheticals in any absolute fashion. We all know that. But this decade-old argument that Brady having more postseason success means that he's a better QB is flimsy. It always has been, and Harrison's comments underscore how weak of position it is. People hide behind this "legacies are made in the playoffs" line of reasoning, but especially in the NFL, that's flawed thinking, and again, Harrison's comments underscore why.

 

For someone who played with Brady and who prefers Brady to essentially admit that part of the reason Brady has more rings is because he got more support from his team speaks to what Manning fans have always said. 

[Superman]

There is no such thing as clutch i am trying to say every player had up and  downs in the playoffs , but rings is won by coaching game planing, getting the right match ups having a complete team. Brady is a hall of famer no doubt and one of the best ever.

 

I disagree. Being "clutch" doesn't undo poor coaching or poor play by teammates. But some players have shown an ability to play very well with the game on the line, whereas others are more prone to mistakes with the game on the line. It's harder to quantify in the NFL than in other sports, because everything that happens in the NFL is a result of good play from your teammates. It's not like the NBA where you can break your man down and hit a big shot, or baseball where you're one on one with a hitter/pitcher. But being dialed in in crunch time is a real thing. Winning a Super Bowl doesn't make a player clutch, though. Having good games in the playoffs doesn't make you clutch.

 

It's not easily definable, but I do believe some players excel with the game on the line, while others do not.

[amfootball]

That's totally fine. But that's exactly what Harrison did with his comments. Manning fans have said that for many years now, and it's been mocked derisively. Now, with Harrison saying it, it lends some credence to the argument.

 

You can't answer hypotheticals in any absolute fashion. We all know that. But this decade-old argument that Brady having more postseason success means that he's a better QB is flimsy. It always has been, and Harrison's comments underscore how weak of position it is. People hide behind this "legacies are made in the playoffs" line of reasoning, but especially in the NFL, that's flawed thinking, and again, Harrison's comments underscore why.

 

For someone who played with Brady and who prefers Brady to essentially admit that part of the reason Brady has more rings is because he got more support from his team speaks to what Manning fans have always said. 

If you believe that is why Harrison said that then that is your opinion but he is a defensive player so it behooves him to tout the Pats defense and say they would have won SBs for Manning too. This is not an objective opinion but one that is biased and self-serving. I also think Harrison said it to be inflammatory the week leading up to Pats/Broncos. He may well believe it but I have my doubts as I really don't put a lot of credence behind the media touting something of this nature before a big game. He was saying it to get a rise just like his Tom Brady wears a skirt comment.  In other words, I don't believe it validates Colts fans assumptions over the years at all.

 

It is similar to the Marino/Montana argument. Montana ran the west coast O better than anyone so to think Dan could have stepped onto those niners teams and won four SBs is naïve at best. Same with the Pats. Manning has never shown an ability to be able to run any style of offense outside of his Tom Moore Indy offense while Brady has run a different offense every other season. Again, no reason to believe Manning could have stepped onto the Pats offense and into the Pats coaching scheme and won SBs regardless of the defense.

 

Again, you should know this better than anyone. Football is not as simple as swap person A for person B and get the same result. Especially at the most important position in the game.

[braveheartcolt]

He has said numerous times that he wants to run as many plays as the Pats as they led the league. It is right there for you to see. You were claiming it was the defense. It was Peyton too saying it and copying the Pats. Why not? More plays is a good thing.

"This is my last post" you say. Then you post three more. "Last word" is what you really meant, yes?

[amfootball]

"This is my last post" you say. Then you post three more. "Last word" is what you really meant, yes?

Just had a free moment. How is jolly old England? Or is it France now?

[Moose Of Woe]

Brady is more "clutch" often, but Brady does throw INT's too in key situations.

He's thrown 2 game ending INT's this season. It would have been 3 if his D didn't give him a second chance against the Saints. Brees basically choked it right back to him. Credit the Patriot's D in that situation, but also terrible playcalling by the Saints and throwing an incomplete pass to stop the clock.

 

You can consider the INT VS the Panthers a wash with the Saints game, because that wouldn't have happened if the penalty were called like it should have been.

 

Every QB has them. Sometimes due to factors outside their control such as zebras deciding to screw them over or just being flat out incompetent. Or randomly deciding rules should suddenly not be enforced that were previously or vice versa.

[Sports Central1]

He's thrown 2 game ending INT's this season. It would have been 3 if his D didn't give him a second chance against the Saints. Brees basically choked it right back to him. Credit the Patriot's D in that situation, but also terrible playcalling by the Saints and throwing an incomplete pass to stop the clock.

 

You can consider the INT VS the Panthers a wash with the Saints game, because that wouldn't have happened if the penalty were called like it should have been.

 

Every QB has them. Sometimes due to factors outside their control such as zebras deciding to screw them over or just being flat out incompetent. Or randomly deciding rules should suddenly not be enforced that were previously or vice versa.

 

Refs cost the Pats the game against the Panthers as Gronk was clearly held and the refs threw the flag.  Most former refs around the country were chiming in on Twitter right away saying it was a blown call and it should have been pass interference.  If anyone in the NFL could make that catch or have a good chance of getting to that ball it's Gronk who's 6'6" with the longest wing span of all WR's and TE's in the game.  When even Steve Young and most the former NFL players who are now analysts who don't like the Pats say the Pats got screwed on that play you know the Pats got screwed.

 

Some claim the refs cost the Pats the game against the Jets or that the refs shouldn't decide the out come of a game that way on that type of play.  The Jets themselves have gotten away with that play before. In the NBA the refs often let the game go on and don't interfere in the last remaining minutes of a game.

 

So this also blows out of the water that the Pats get "special treatment" by the NFL on calls because they don't.  They have gotten more than their fair share of bad calls since 2007.  There's also growing evidence that the NFL and refs don't like the Pats and don't like Belichick because they don't.

 

The Saints are similar to the Colts.  They are indoor climate controlled teams that play most their games indoors every season.  I would have picked the Saints to beat the Pats in New Orleans where they play arena football.  I would pick the Colts to beat the Pats in Indy.

 

Now that Peyton has season and a half under his belt playing in Denver outdoors as the entire AFC West is out doors and the Broncos play on grass at altitude in bad climate he shouldn't be at a disadvantage now against NE in NE.  I pick the Broncos to win as they are the best team in the NFL.  

 

I said at the beginning of the year the Super Bowl will be between the Broncos and Niners.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's the Broncos and Seahawks and don't sleep on the Giants because as we seen before they make those amazing runs the second half of the year.

[Sports Central1]

This thread topic is about Rodney Harrison's opinion and comment about Peyton.  I am guilty of going off topic on here, so let's bring it back to Harrison's comments and question his sincerity on it and why did he say it?

 

Well, all week the media is doing it's best to hype up this match up as if it's the AFC title game for ratings.  Harrison is part of the media now and we know how they work and operate.  I bet Rodney got the memo and orders from NBC's top brass as Rodney works for NBC as this game will be televised live on NBC to come out and say something to gin up hype and get people talking and well........we're talking about it now.  Rodney might not even mean what he said.  It could just be a ploy.

[Jules]

Refs cost the Pats the game against the Panthers as Gronk was clearly held and the refs threw the flag.  Most former refs around the country were chiming in on Twitter right away saying it was a blown call and it should have been pass interference.  If anyone in the NFL could make that catch or have a good chance of getting to that ball it's Gronk who's 6'6" with the longest wing span of all WR's and TE's in the game.  When even Steve Young and most the former NFL players who are now analysts who don't like the Pats say the Pats got screwed on that play you know the Pats got screwed.

 

Some claim the refs cost the Pats the game against the Jets or that the refs shouldn't decide the out come of a game that way on that type of play.  The Jets themselves have gotten away with that play before. In the NBA the refs often let the game go on and don't interfere in the last remaining minutes of a game.

 

So this also blows out of the water that the Pats get "special treatment" by the NFL on calls because they don't.  They have gotten more than their fair share of bad calls since 2007.  There's also growing evidence that the NFL and refs don't like the Pats and don't like Belichick because they don't.

 

The Saints are similar to the Colts.  They are indoor climate controlled teams that play most their games indoors every season.  I would have picked the Saints to beat the Pats in New Orleans where they play arena football.  I would pick the Colts to beat the Pats in Indy.

 

Now that Peyton has season and a half under his belt playing in Denver outdoors as the entire AFC West is out doors and the Broncos play on grass at altitude in bad climate he shouldn't be at a disadvantage now against NE in NE.  I pick the Broncos to win as they are the best team in the NFL.  

 

I said at the beginning of the year the Super Bowl will be between the Broncos and Niners.  I wouldn't be surprised if it's the Broncos and Seahawks and don't sleep on the Giants because as we seen before they make those amazing runs the second half of the year.

 

 

Oh come on. We don't even have a history at the moment under Luck to be labeled a soft dome team or anything. ...

 

We can play some physical football too if need be and have showed this....

[Sports Central1]

Oh come on. We don't even have a history at the moment under Luck to be labeled a soft dome team or anything. ...

 

We can play some physical football too if need be and have showed this....

 

I need to see it first.  They got to win on the road against good teams in the 2nd half of the season in bad weather and also in the playoffs.

 

Now to be fair.  I'm a disgruntled Pats fan.  I don't think the Pats will win a Super Bowl again under the Belichick/Brady era until they become a defensive first team and get a great D coordinator.  I think the Colts are closer to a Super Bowl victory than the Pats are.  I'd rather Brady be like Joe Flacco the rest of his career and be mediocre in the regular season and just throw those winning td's in the post season and have a great D lead the way.

[Gavin]

There really is no doubt in my mind that Peyton could have learned the Patriots offensive scheme, Heck its not out of the question at all that he Pats would not have catered to a lot of what Peyton wanted to do.....That's what smart coaches do....play to there players strengths....The Pats have not been to 5 SB's during the Brady era without being flexible to varying degrees.....Really no doubt in my mind had Peyton been on them early 2000 Pats teams he has more SB appearances and at least 1 more win

[Sports Central1]

If people read all my posts on this thread I haven't yet mentioned if Peyton would have won Super Bowls in the Patriots system if he played for the Patriots...

 

I think Peyton would have won at least 3 Super Bowls with the Patriots.

[southwest1]

Some background here on Rodney - it is widely known that Brady used to torch him in practice. The D had what they called the "Dirty Show." Brady used to talk about it where they would try to get to Brady but routinely fail. Rodney likes to think that the SB wins were all about him when he wasn't even there for the first one and did not play the entire second half of the Caroline SB due to a broken arm. And of course it was him covering David Tyree for the infamous helmet catch that kept the Pats from their fourth ring and an undefeated season. He was also busted for roids because he kept getting injured the last 5 years of his career and could never stay on the field and routinely voted as one of the dirtiest players in the NFL for all his late hits after the whistle blew.

 

In terms of his hypothetical which are always silly to me, no one knows. Belichick all the time says there is no other QB he would want other then Brady. Basically Brady is Belichick on the field when it comes to knowing and understanding football and playing smart. I have my doubts that Manning would have been able to run the different style of offenses that Belichick has incorporated over the years or that Bill would let him run his Indy offense.

 

This is the same argument about Marino winning with Montana's teams. All conjecture.

It seems to me that Rodney has played against both QBs in question. So what if Rodney got torched in practice by Brady? What like if he picked off every pass then & only then his credibility would matter? I fail to grasp your point. You can even remove the David Tyree catch if you want to. If Rodney was as bad as you claim, why would BB keep him around for so long? BB is not a sentimental fool. You perform in crunch time or BB cuts you ASAP. It's how the Grey Hoodie rolls.

 

Conjecture happens all the time in sports. Personally, I always wanted to switch brothers & put Peyton on the NY Giants. I was always mesmerized by that o-line created by Jerry Reese from 2007-2012. Give 18 that line & watch the SB rings accumulate. 

[shecolt]

This thread topic is about Rodney Harrison's opinion and comment about Peyton.  I am guilty of going off topic on here, so let's bring it back to Harrison's comments and question his sincerity on it and why did he say it?

 

Well, all week the media is doing it's best to hype up this match up as if it's the AFC title game for ratings.  Harrison is part of the media now and we know how they work and operate.  I bet Rodney got the memo and orders from NBC's top brass as Rodney works for NBC as this game will be televised live on NBC to come out and say something to gin up hype and get people talking and well........we're talking about it now.  Rodney might not even mean what he said.  It could just be a ploy.

 

You may be right in that Rodney was merely taking orders from NBC's top brass.

 

It is also equally possible that he was sincere in what he said especially since a few weeks ago he said something about Manning being better than Brady . . . although he went on to hedge a little later on after whatever game it was. 

 

Personally, I really don't care either way as I think they are both great; but his words sure have sent some Patriot fans (not you) into a tizzy. 

[shecolt]

Some of my comments and opinions above was some trash talking mixed in for a little humor.  Please understand.  I hope Colts fans and people understand that, this is a sports forum not a Harvard classroom debate on economics.

 

 

 

 

 

I want to begin by saying that I enjoy having members here who are fans of other teams as they lend a different perspective.

 

And, there are several Patriot fans here for whom I have the utmost respect . . . including that Patriot moderator that we have. ;)

 

While it's true that this is not a Harvard classroom debate on economics and it is probably extremely difficult to avoid trash talking when in what may seem at times to be enemy terrority, you will gain much more respect and be taken more seriously if you try to avoid that trash talking. 

 

Now, I'm not saying this as an attempt to berate you; but merely because I want you to be a well accepted member on this site.

[Shane Bond]

I want to begin by saying that I enjoy having members here who are fans of other teams as they lend a different perspective.

 

And, there are several Patriot fans here for whom I have the utmost respect . . . including that Patriot moderator that we have. ;)

 

While it's true that this is not a Harvard classroom debate on economics and it is probably extremely difficult to avoid trash talking when in what may seem at times to be enemy terrority, you will gain much more respect and be taken more seriously if you try to avoid that trash talking. 

 

Now, I'm not saying this as an attempt to berate you; but merely because I want you to be a well accepted member on this site.

 

Who is the pat moderator?

[shecolt]

Who is the pat moderator?

 

  It's not me.

 

But, the fact that you had to ask is confirmation to what a great job he is doing.  Not, that I needed any confirmation.

 

I don't think I'm revealing any secret to many that JJ is our Patriot moderator and I am extremely thankful for everything he does to help this site run smoothly. 

 

I also think it's rather cool that a Colt's message board has a moderator who is a Patriot fan as I view it as proof that we really want to embrace those who are fans of all teams . . . including those pesky Patriots.  ;)

[Sports Central1]

It seems to me that Rodney has played against both QBs in question. So what if Rodney got torched in practice by Brady? What like if he picked off every pass then & only then his credibility would matter? I fail to grasp your point. You can even remove the David Tyree catch if you want to. If Rodney was as bad as you claim, why would BB keep him around for so long? BB is not a sentimental fool. You perform in crunch time or BB cuts you ASAP. It's how the Grey Hoodie rolls.

 

Conjecture happens all the time in sports. Personally, I always wanted to switch brothers & put Peyton on the NY Giants. I was always mesmerized by that o-line created by Jerry Reese from 2007-2012. Give 18 that line & watch the SB rings accumulate. 

 

Those are some good points.

 

I liked Rodney when he was with the Pats, he did his job and provided that very physical aggressive play that the Pats needed in the secondary and he was also smart and a quality player and could make interceptions and tackle.  Where as Brandon Meriweather is just physical but doesn't have great instincts and sometimes below average instincts and often takes bad angles.  Meriweather is sort of like that Bernard Pollard type player, just a journey man who looks to hurt people but isn't that good.  I would say Rodney Harrison is more like John Lynch in some ways.

 

I don't blame Rodney for why the Pats lost the 2007 Super Bowl and I often forget about the David Tyree catch.  When I think of the 2007 Super Bowl I think of the Giants' defensive line smothering Brady and disrupting the rhythm of the Patriots offense.  Both the Patriots super bowl losses I look at those teams and how they played in those two games and it's as if they were just fundamentally flawed teams.  They weren't setup right to win the Super Bowl or to deal with very aggressive opponents.

[braveheartcolt]

It's not me.

But, the fact that you had to ask is confirmation to what a great job he is doing. Not, that I needed any confirmation.

I don't think I'm revealing any secret to many that JJ is our Patriot moderator and I am extremely thankful for everything he does to help this site run smoothly.

I also think it's rather cool that a Colt's message board has a moderator who is a Patriot fan as I view it as proof that we really want to embrace those who are fans of all teams . . . including those pesky Patriots. ;)

JJ has been on here as long as Peyton has being going one and done, as long as Tom has been working his system, and as long as Jskinnz has been writing to the Almighty.

Pesky or not, this place wouldn't be the same without our Patties. JJ, GoPats and Dynasty13 have been on here for more than 10 years, and it's been a pleasure jousting with them.

PS - they are wrong about 12 > 18. Everytime.

[amfootball]

There really is no doubt in my mind that Peyton could have learned the Patriots offensive scheme, Heck its not out of the question at all that he Pats would not have catered to a lot of what Peyton wanted to do.....That's what smart coaches do....play to there players strengths....The Pats have not been to 5 SB's during the Brady era without being flexible to varying degrees.....Really no doubt in my mind had Peyton been on them early 2000 Pats teams he has more SB appearances and at least 1 more win

That is a good point about the Pats coaching staff but I think one of the main reasons Bill switched to Brady from Bledsoe was his ability to play smart and also, and more importantly, his ability to understand the game could be played differently depending on the opponent. I honestly can't recall another team in the NFL that changes its game plan week to week, year to year, like the Pats to keep defenses guessing. Most teams just line up and do what they do and hope that is good enough. I actually think that is one of the mains reasons why Peyton's record is as lousy as it is in the post-season. You always know what you are going to get from him. There are no surprises. I remember last year when Bill was asked if the Broncos offense looked any different from Indy's and he said "no, not really. Almost all of it is the same."  Bill has never kept the offense stagnant in NE. Now, could Peyton have adapted to Bill's style? I have my doubts as the prevalent thought as to why he did not sign with the niners was because Harbaugh would have controlled the O and not let him run his Indy offense.

 

Lastly, and I think a point that may be most salient to this discussion that has not been brought up is the weather. Manning has never won a post-season game in temps below freezing. In 2001, the Pats played the infamous "Snow Bowl" vs the Raiders in a raging snow storm in Boston. Most forget due to the tuck rule call that the Pats were down 13-3 at half and Brady threw for 300 yards in the second half alone to lead the comeback. I don't believe Peyton could have done that given his level of performance in bad weather compared to Brady's. Second, in 2003 the Pat played the Tennessee Titans in one of the coldest days in Pats history and won and then played Manning in the AFC champ game where it snowed and Manning threw three picks to Law and scored 3 points. Lastly, in 2004, the Pats played the Colts in the divisional round on another cold and sleet day and Manning again managed 14 points to Brady's 24 in bad weather conditions. And of course the AFCGG was played in Pitt at night where temps were frigid and Brady lit it up with 41 points. One of Brady's biggest strengths is his play in bad weather which is why he has been so successful in NE and why he looks forward to late Nov/Dec football. Bad weather games are like kryptonite to Manning so I don't see him having the same level of success had he been in NE.

[braveheartcolt]

That is a good point about the Pats coaching staff but I think one of the main reasons Bill switched to Brady from Bledsoe was his ability to play smart and also, and more importantly, his ability to understand the game could be played differently depending on the opponent. I honestly can't recall another team in the NFL that changes its game plan week to week, year to year, like the Pats to keep defenses guessing. Most teams just line up and do what they do and hope that is good enough. I actually think that is one of the mains reasons why Peyton's record is as lousy as it is in the post-season. You always know what you are going to get from him. There are no surprises. I remember last year when Bill was asked if the Broncos offense looked any different from Indy's and he said "no, not really. Almost all of it is the same." Bill has never kept the offense stagnant in NE. Now, could Peyton have adapted to Bill's style? I have my doubts as the prevalent thought as to why he did not sign with the niners was because Harbaugh would have controlled the O and not let him run his Indy offense.

Lastly, and I think a point that may be most salient to this discussion that has not been brought up is the weather. Manning has never won a post-season game in temps below freezing. In 2001, the Pats played the infamous "Snow Bowl" vs the Raiders in a raging snow storm in Boston. Most forget due to the tuck rule call that the Pats were down 13-3 at half and Brady threw for 300 yards in the second half alone to lead the comeback. I don't believe Peyton could have done that given his level of performance in bad weather compared to Brady's. Second, in 2003 the Pat played the Tennessee Titans in one of the coldest days in Pats history and won and then played Manning in the AFC champ game where it snowed and Manning threw three picks to Law and scored 3 points. Lastly, in 2004, the Pats played the Colts in the divisional round on another cold and sleet day and Manning again managed 14 points to Brady's 24 in bad weather conditions. And of course the AFCGG was played in Pitt at night where temps were frigid and Brady lit it up with 41 points. One of Brady's biggest strengths is his play in bad weather which is why he has been so successful in NE and why he looks forward to late Nov/Dec football. Bad weather games are like kryptonite to Manning so I don't see him having the same level of success had he been in NE.

With all this brillance you mention above, you'd think they would have won a SB or two more in the last 8 seasons. Or are you being a little too over zealous in your adoration?

[amfootball]

With all this brillance you mention above, you'd think they would have won a SB or two more in the last 8 seasons. Or are you being a little too over zealous in your adoration?

They went to two more and lost both by a couple of plays. Such is life.

[Shane Bond]

With all this brillance you mention above, you'd think they would have won a SB or two more in the last 8 seasons. Or are you being a little too over zealous in your adoration?

LOL

 

Braveheart - I can tell you her reply.

 

"They went to 2 SBs. They lost the first one coz someone made a "fluke" catch not become Tom Brady led offense scored a grand total of 14 points.

 

On the second SB, Welker dropped a pass. Of course its not Tom Brady making a throw a bit higher."

 

And all the other playoff losses, everyone except Brady played bad.

 

Am i right, amfootball?.

[braveheartcolt]

They went to two more and lost both by a couple of plays. Such is life.

Many points did the GOAT score in those two losses? Any interceptions thrown? But they did lose yes? And if the Colts / Broncos PO losses are on Manning, these are on Brady, yes? I mean, you don't have double standards, do you?

[amfootball]

Many points did the GOAT score in those two losses? Any interceptions thrown? But they did lose yes? And if the Colts / Broncos PO losses are on Manning, these are on Brady, yes? I mean, you don't have double standards, do you?

yes, on Brady. He is the best player on the field like Manning and is expected to play like it if the Pats are going to win.

 

But then again, Brady has the three rings and 17 playoff victories (most all time) so I really don't have to defend any of his games, do I? After all this thread is about Manning and his playoff woes and what might have been if he had Tom's team.

[Shane Bond]

yes, on Brady. He is the best player on the field like Manning and is expected to play like it if the Pats are going to win.

 

But then again, Brady has the three rings and 17 playoff victories (most all time) so I really don't have to defend any of his games, do I? After all this thread is about Manning and his playoff woes and what might have been if he had Tom's team.

 

Well you dont but to be more specific to his question, since playoff losses are on Manning, same goes to Brady?.

[amfootball]

Well you dont but to be more specific to his question, since playoff losses are on Manning, same goes to Brady?.

Football for sure is a team sport but there is a reason why Ws and Ls are attributed to the QB. They control the game the most. So yes in IMO wins and losses are on them the most. Especially when talking about two HoF QBs like Brady and Manning.

[shecolt]

yes, on Brady. He is the best player on the field like Manning and is expected to play like it if the Pats are going to win.

 

But then again, Brady has the three rings and 17 playoff victories (most all time) so I really don't have to defend any of his games, do I? After all this thread is about Manning and his playoff woes and what might have been if he had Tom's team.

 

No, this thread was about Harrison saying that he thought Peyton would have those 3 rings if he had been the QB on those Patriot teams.

 

But, the thought that Rodney would even entertain such a thought has sent you into a tailspin. 

 

How dare anyone (especially someone who played for the Patriots) even insinuate that Manning may be just as good as Brady.     

[Flying Elvis]

Rodney is part of the media now. I take his comments, as well as Tedy's, in that context. Even Troy Brown on CSSNE commented during halftime of the Saints game that it may be time to put Mallet in.

 

I never get into Manning vs Brady debates. They are both great and are both first ballot hall-of-famers.