Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

[bayone]

Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

 

former Patriot Rodney Harrison, who helped the team to two super bowl titles expressed a widely held belief amongst Manning's supporters that the former Colt simply had to shoulder too much of the burden in Indianapolis:

 

QUOTE

"I think Peyton has been so unfairly judged because he really didn't have that defense over the years like Tom," Harrison said. "Tom had a lot of veteran players, a lot of really good defenses, where if he didn't play particularly well, he knew that he had a defense with a lot of veteran players that could save him. Whereas, Peyton didn't really have that advantage. If Peyton was on our team, I think

we could have easily won three Super Bowls, no doubt about it.

"

 

MHR then shows stats of defenses  etc both had & agrees but admits bias

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/11/21/5131746/rodney-harrison-wed-have-easily-won-three-super-bowls-with-peyton

 

 

may or may not be back on - Power still going in & out , been home from hotel last night but storm approaching and lights flickering , Man is this irritating, had enough time to dump all food in fridge, afraid to buy more as issue appears recurrent 

[bayone]

Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

 

former Patriot Rodney Harrison, who helped the team to two super bowl titles expressed a widely held belief amongst Manning's supporters that the former Colt simply had to shoulder too much of the burden in Indianapolis:

 

QUOTE

"I think Peyton has been so unfairly judged because he really didn't have that defense over the years like Tom," Harrison said. "Tom had a lot of veteran players, a lot of really good defenses, where if he didn't play particularly well, he knew that he had a defense with a lot of veteran players that could save him. Whereas, Peyton didn't really have that advantage. If Peyton was on our team, I think

we could have easily won three Super Bowls, no doubt about it.

"

 

MHR then shows stats of defenses  etc both had & agrees but admits bias

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/11/21/5131746/rodney-harrison-wed-have-easily-won-three-super-bowls-with-peyton

 

 

may or may not be back on - Power still going in & out , been home from hotel last night but storm approaching and lights flickering , Man is this irritating, had enough time to dump all food in fridge, afraid to buy more as issue appears recurrent 

 

MHR sets ouit to see if " But does this argument hold any water?  Let's check the facts: "

 

after analyzing stats shown MHR says It certainly appears as if Brady had much more help defensively.

 

later after a few more paragraphs of some stats  MHR says on playoffs -- The Patriot defense gave Brady that support in 7/11 playoff games he appeared in during this run on Super Bowls.  Peyton Manning only had  that support once (a victory).

 

MHR says I am biased when it comes down to the Manning vs. Brady debate.  Whatever you think about that, just remember that the numbers side more with Rodney Harrison when it comes to this discussion--and he played with Tom Brady.

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/11/21/5131746/rodney-harrison-wed-have-easily-won-three-super-bowls-with-peyton

[Cynjin]

Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

 

former Patriot Rodney Harrison, who helped the team to two super bowl titles expressed a widely held belief amongst Manning's supporters that the former Colt simply had to shoulder too much of the burden in Indianapolis:

 

QUOTE

"I think Peyton has been so unfairly judged because he really didn't have that defense over the years like Tom," Harrison said. "Tom had a lot of veteran players, a lot of really good defenses, where if he didn't play particularly well, he knew that he had a defense with a lot of veteran players that could save him. Whereas, Peyton didn't really have that advantage. If Peyton was on our team, I think we could have easily won three Super Bowls, no doubt about it."

 

MHR then shows stats of defenses  etc both had & agrees but admits bias

 

http://www.milehighreport.com/2013/11/21/5131746/rodney-harrison-wed-have-easily-won-three-super-bowls-with-peyton

 

 

may or may not be back on - Power still going in & out , been home from hotel last night but storm approaching and lights flickering , Man is this irritating, had enough time to dump all food in fridge, afraid to buy more as issue appears recurrent

Interesting quote. I agree with him, I would also say that the special teams were not as good.

[bayone]

Interesting quote. I agree with him, I would also say that the special teams were not as good.

 

Save for a few good returners cut for some weird reason, we had horrible coverage and horrible returns, forgot name of the returner we had  I know it was once stated about  if returned back to the 20 without a fumble we were happy, 

[Everyone]

 

may or may not be back on - Power still going in & out , been home from hotel last night but storm approaching and lights flickering , Man is this irritating, had enough time to dump all food in fridge, afraid to buy more as issue appears recurrent 

I hope your situation improves soon, take care.

[chad72]

Oh no, another Brady vs Manning potential here.

 

Having a guy like Belichick telling you "this is what you do, just do it, do your job" would definitely have helped Peyton in his early playoff years.

 

Coaching is such an underrated aspect in playoff football, IMO and not enough fans talk about it. Playoffs are all about adjustments in high stakes games and coaches can see things more objectively than players who have to wear their emotions on their sleeves, IMO.

[bayone]

Oh no, another Brady vs Manning potential here.

 

Having a guy like Belichick telling you "this is what you do, just do it, do your job" would definitely have helped Peyton in his early playoff years.

 

Coaching is such an underrated aspect in playoff football, IMO and not enough fans talk about it. Playoffs are all about adjustments in high stakes games and coaches can see things more objectively than players who have to wear their emotions on their sleeves, IMO.

 

Didnt mean to start one believe me , today I also gave praise to both in

 

see  comment # 53  , currently last one in ( & link takes u directly there to comment  at least right now  ))

 

http://forums.colts.com/topic/23186-denver-2-new-england-11-24-13/page-2#entry645222

 

where Denvers Mile High Report Praaises both & I note pertinent excerpts 

 

article Titled Peyton Manning and Tom Brady are oldies but goodies

[Dustin]

Probably would have won more. That team +the greatst QB of his generation in Peyton? 4-5 super bowls easy.

[Shane Bond]

Oh no, another Brady vs Manning potential here.

 

Having a guy like Belichick telling you "this is what you do, just do it, do your job" would definitely have helped Peyton in his early playoff years.

 

Coaching is such an underrated aspect in playoff football, IMO and not enough fans talk about it. Playoffs are all about adjustments in high stakes games and coaches can see things more objectively than players who have to wear their emotions on their sleeves, IMO.

Of course.

 

Having a Belichick for Brady, Sean Payton for Brees, McCarthy for Rodgers certainly helps and helped them.

 

Manning unfortunately never had that luxury.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Probably would have won more. That team +the greatst QB of his generation in Peyton? 4-5 super bowls easy.

Just give us Belichick and I bet the Colts win more than one.

[-JJ-]

Oh no, another Brady vs Manning potential here.

 

Having a guy like Belichick telling you "this is what you do, just do it, do your job" would definitely have helped Peyton in his early playoff years.

 

Coaching is such an underrated aspect in playoff football, IMO and not enough fans talk about it. Playoffs are all about adjustments in high stakes games and coaches can see things more objectively than players who have to wear their emotions on their sleeves, IMO.

I've said that for years. It's not so much who the coach was, although a great one is a big deal, is that Manning was uncoachable. He wanted to do it.

When I first saw him play his first season I thought wow, what a great play action QB. But he didn't have or allow a coach to tell him what to do period as you mentioned.

[Shane Bond]

I've said that for years. It's not so much who the coach was, although a great one is a big deal, is that Manning was uncoachable. He wanted to do it.

When I first saw him play his first season I thought wow, what a great play action QB. But he didn't have or allow a coach to tell him what to do period as you mentioned.

 

Well he would listen if someone can tell him something better which Belichick would have.

 

He is totally coachable. Point is the person who is coaching should know something which is good enough.

[Superman]

Just what Manning fans have been saying for years.

[oldunclemark]

Rodney Harrison: "We'd have easily won three Super Bowls with Peyton Manning"

 

former Patriot Rodney Harrison, who helped the team to two super bowl titles expressed a widely held belief amongst Manning's supporters that the former Colt simply had to shoulder too much of the burden in Indianapolis:

 

QUOTE

 

"I think Peyton has been so unfairly judged because he really didn't have that defense over the years like Tom," Harrison said. "Tom had a lot of veteran players, a lot of really good defenses, where if he didn't play particularly well, he knew that he had a defense with a lot of veteran players that could save him. Whereas, Peyton didn't really have that advantage. If Peyton was on our team, I think we could have easily won three Super Bowls, no doubt about it."

 

   I'm glad someone from New England could say this.....even now..because many critics said this was not true....when Peyton was in Indy.

 

It doesn't take anything away from Tom Brady...nor does it bad mouth Indy's defensive players

 

He's just saying NE had the better defense..which  is what I (and a lot of us) thoughtt

[Mameluc]

I've said that for years. It's not so much who the coach was, although a great one is a big deal, is that Manning was uncoachable. He wanted to do it.

When I first saw him play his first season I thought wow, what a great play action QB. But he didn't have or allow a coach to tell him what to do period as you mentioned.

why you get the impression he was uncoachable? honest question not saying he was/wasnt

[oldunclemark]

Just give us Belichick and I bet the Colts win more than one.

That suggests Bil Belichik was a better coach than Tony Dungy and the facts (Dungy also built Tampa) dont support that..

 

Belichik would not have beaten NE with Indy in the early parts of the last decade...

[Mitch Connors]

Probably would have won more. That team +the greatst QB of his generation in Peyton? 4-5 super bowls easy.

I agree but the reason we didn’t have the team around Peyton that Brady had around him is because of their respective salaries. Peyton was paid as the #1 player in the draft while Brady was paid virtually nothing as a 6th round pick. It wasn’t until 2005 when Brady really got paid and that was after the 3 super bowl wins.

 

The exact same thing is happening now right. There’s a reason the Seahawks roster is loaded - they’re only paying Wilson around $450,000 as opposed to the 15-20 million elite QBs are being paid (Manning 18million this year). A team can do a lot of damage with 17 million extra dollars to spend and that’s why the Pats were a much better team than the Colts early in their careers.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

That suggests Bil Belichik was a better coach than Tony Dungy and the facts (Dungy also built Tampa) dont support that..

 

Belichik would not have beaten NE with Indy in the early parts of the last decade...

I disagree.  I love Tony, but I think Bill is a superior coach.  Bill also took Cleveland to the playoffs, and NE wouldn't have had a lot of the players it had in the first place in Belichick wasn't there.

[bayone]

why you get the impression he was uncoachable? honest question not saying he was/wasnt

 

good question as Peyton always credited his QB coaches like Arians etc on how much thet helped him and he always says so & so showed him this or that, either he is a liar, which I doubt ,  or truly loves to learn as much as can and so is coach able to me, but needs a good offensive minded coach that's aggressive to help esp in the Colt years

 

some so called analysts experts had previously said if the early AFC Champ games were held in INdy & Not at NE then Colts would of won , teams were that close, Note I Say TEAMS

[oldunclemark]

Oh no, another Brady vs Manning potential here.

 

Having a guy like Belichick telling you "this is what you do, just do it, do your job" would definitely have helped Peyton in his early playoff years.

 

Coaching is such an underrated aspect in playoff football, IMO and not enough fans talk about it. Playoffs are all about adjustments in high stakes games and coaches can see things more objectively than players who have to wear their emotions on their sleeves, IMO.

we disagree fundamentally...

 

Coaching is overrated..Its why Parcells had success somewhere and not somewhere else.

 

Same for Ditka....same for the Ryan brothers.....

 

Indy never would have been a power with Peyton running a 'balanced' game manager attack

 

..and in truth...that's not what Belichik did with Tom Brady...Brady wasnt great in his early years..He';s much better now and Belichick used him as Dungy used Manning in the year when he had Randy Moss..

 

Players win and lose....more so than coaches.

[oldunclemark]

Everybody wants  a scape goat because THEY feel Indy's  success was not enough..compared to NE's success,.

 

some blame Manning...some blame Dungy......some blame Polian   ..the weakness in people is that they ALWAYS want a scapegoat...it makes them feel better

 

Something cant just be what it is....there has to be a personification of blame

 

 

 

Rodney Harrison says: Face facts.....stop looking for a fall guy....we (NE) had the better team.....

[Shane Bond]

That suggests Bil Belichik was a better coach than Tony Dungy and the facts (Dungy also built Tampa) dont support that..

 

Belichik would not have beaten NE with Indy in the early parts of the last decade...

 

With Manning playing for Colts, they would have beaten NE. 

 

I hated all those conservative calls Dungy made. Got to take chances like Belichick when you have quality players. With Dungy, Manning almost beat the NE. With Belichick, it would have been easy.

[Shane Bond]

 

Coaching is overrated..Its why Parcells had success somewhere and not somewhere else.

 

 

 

It is, i agree but when the ball game is very close and it comes to one or 2 decisions, it matters a lot.

 

I can give you numerous examples but here is one.

 

Remember Jim caldwell's time out againt the Jets in 2010.

[oldunclemark]

It is, i agree but when the ball game is very close and it comes to one or 2 decisions, it matters a lot.

 

I can give you numerous examples but here is one.

 

Remember Jim caldwell's time out againt the Jets in 2010.

Coaching doenst come down to one time out...

 

That's the same Caldwell that had us in the Super Bowl,.,and OC's Baltimore to the Super Bowl.

 

Was it all him?   No...coaching is overrated

 

Belichik and Btrady (switching teams) would not have beaten NE at NE in those early Manning years. I agree with Harrison

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

we disagree fundamentally...

 

Coaching is overrated..Its why Parcells had success somewhere and not somewhere else.

 

Same for Ditka....same for the Ryan brothers.....

 

Indy never would have been a power with Peyton running a 'balanced' game manager attack

 

..and in truth...that's not what Belichik did with Tom Brady...Brady wasnt great in his early years..He';s much better now and Belichick used him as Dungy used Manning in the year when he had Randy Moss..

 

Players win and lose....more so than coaches.

Name a dynasty without a Hall of Fame head coach.

[amfootball]

Some background here on Rodney - it is widely known that Brady used to torch him in practice. The D had what they called the "Dirty Show." Brady used to talk about it where they would try to get to Brady but routinely fail. Rodney likes to think that the SB wins were all about him when he wasn't even there for the first one and did not play the entire second half of the Caroline SB due to a broken arm. And of course it was him covering David Tyree for the infamous helmet catch that kept the Pats from their fourth ring and an undefeated season. He was also busted for roids because he kept getting injured the last 5 years of his career and could never stay on the field and routinely voted as one of the dirtiest players in the NFL for all his late hits after the whistle blew.

 

In terms of his hypothetical which are always silly to me, no one knows. Belichick all the time says there is no other QB he would want other then Brady. Basically Brady is Belichick on the field when it comes to knowing and understanding football and playing smart. I have my doubts that Manning would have been able to run the different style of offenses that Belichick has incorporated over the years or that Bill would let him run his Indy offense.

 

This is the same argument about Marino winning with Montana's teams. All conjecture.

[Shane Bond]

Coaching doenst come down to one time out...

 

That's the same Caldwell that had us in the Super Bowl,.,and OC's Baltimore to the Super Bowl.

 

Was it all him?   No...coaching is overrated

 

Belichik and Btrady (switching teams) would not have beaten NE at NE in those early Manning years. I agree with Harrison

 

It does come down to one play on many occasions. Caldwell took Colts to SB. We all know how he coached that game.

 

There are so many things a Coach controls - decisions on 4th and 1, fake punt, 4th and long, time outs, FG vs TD etc. It matters a lot. A good coach makes a huge difference.

[oldunclemark]

SO what Harrison says does not hold any water with you, Shane?

 

he's just lying, trying to be a nice guy after his playing days are over?

[Shane Bond]

SO what Harrison says does not hold any water with you, Shane?

 

he's just lying, trying to be a nice guy after his playing days are over?

 

Harrison said Manning would have won more SB if he played for NE right. 

 

Of course, i agree to it coz its Belichick who was coaching NE. I will even say this. If Belichick coached Manning in Indy, he still would have won a lot coz of the decisions and situational football and aggression with which Belichick plays. He know what he has in his arsenal and knows how to utilize the talent.

[oldunclemark]

..and ..Dungy did not know how to utilize talent?

 

So...Belichik good......Dungy bad?

 

...Belichik smart.....Dungy dumb?

[Shane Bond]

..and ..Dungy did not know how to utilize talent?

 

So...Belichik good......Dungy bad?

 

...Belichik smart.....Dungy dumb?

 

I know you well enough to know, you know what i am saying.

 

Every Coach is good when a team goes to playoffs or reaches a SB.

 

Here we are talking about the difference between winning and losing a close game.

 

Of course Dungy is a good coach. But i will take Belichick over him any day.

[oldunclemark]

Name a dynasty without a Hall of Fame head coach.

There's only been one true dynasty in the history of the NFL...   Lombardi's Packers

 

Name any NFL champ without Hall of fame (or future Hall fo Fame)  players

 

Way too simplistic..

 

You are putting the egg before the hen..

 

 Hall of Fame coaches get there because their teams won...

[oldunclemark]

I know you well enough to know, you know what i am saying.

 

Every Coach is good when a team goes to playoffs or reaches a SB.

 

Here we are talking about the difference between winning and losing a close game.

 

Of course Dungy is a good coach. But i will take Belichick over him any day.

 

I just  wanted you to say that, so I can say this...

 

I don't think Bill Belichik is a better coach than Tony Dungy.....

 

Why? Dungy built 2 championship teams which, to me, means that t was him, not the situation.. 

 

See what I;m saying,?

 

Like if Manning wins the Super Bowl with Denver this season, its him..not the situation he had in Indy..

 

No one has even QB's 2 different teams to Super Bowl wins (although Johnny U did QB's the Colts to an NFL and a Super Bowl crown

 

One time can be a little Luck (not Andrew) twice can be a trend

[Superman]

..and ..Dungy did not know how to utilize talent?

 

So...Belichik good......Dungy bad?

 

...Belichik smart.....Dungy dumb?

 

[amfootball]

I just  wanted you to say that, so I can say this...

 

I don't think Bill Belichik is a better coach than Tony Dungy.....

 

Why? Dungy built 2 championship teams which, to me, means that t was him, not the situation.. 

 

See what I;m saying,?

 

Like if Manning wins the Super Bowl with Denver this season, its him..not the situation he had in Indy..

 

No one has even QB's 2 different teams to Super Bowl wins (although Johnny U did QB's the Colts to an NFL and a Super Bowl crown

 

One time can be a little Luck (not Andrew) twice can be a trend

I generally like your posts a lot but did you just say you don't think Bill is a better coach then Dungy?? Really?

[chad72]

I just  wanted you to say that, so I can say this...

 

I don't think Bill Belichik is a better coach than Tony Dungy.....

 

Why? Dungy built 2 championship teams which, to me, means that t was him, not the situation.. 

 

See what I;m saying,?

 

Like if Manning wins the Super Bowl with Denver this season, its him..not the situation he had in Indy..

 

No one has even QB's 2 different teams to Super Bowl wins (although Johnny U did QB's the Colts to an NFL and a Super Bowl crown

 

One time can be a little Luck (not Andrew) twice can be a trend

 

OUM, you are not understanding this aspect.

 

Good coaches choose the system they want to run and GMs draft for it. There is no doubt Polian drafted for Dungy's system, he had always done that with Marv Levy in Buffalo and with Dungy in Indy. I was never a fan of the system Dungy ran on D because playoff offenses made us bend and break. One dimensional teams like Jets, Ravens, we handled better defensively but if the team pulled out the surprise of balance on us like the Pats, Chargers and even Steelers for that one 2005 game, we were caught with our pants down. It is not a co-incidence that we beat one dimensional teams in Chiefs, Ravens (twice) and Jets to get to our 2 SBs, the win over the Pats was one we have to pat ourselves the most for since that was the first legit playoff win in a game in the divisional round or later against a balanced team. I do think there were flaws the way our team was built and the coach and GM do have a BIG hand in it.

 

I agree that good teams win SBs but how the team is built in all phases is dictated a lot by the coaches and GM more than just one marquee QB. That is why the coaches and GMs should get more credit (and blame too that goes with it) than we have given them for playoff success.

[oldunclemark]

True Supe..

 

But the idea that Belichick knows more about how to use talent because he won 3 Super Bowls in NE and Indy won one...is a little simplistic

 

Indy had less talent

[bayone]

Harrison said Manning would have won more SB if he played for NE right. 

 

Of course, i agree to it coz its Belichick who was coaching NE. I will even say this. If Belichick coached Manning in Indy, he still would have won a lot coz of the decisions and situational football and aggression with which Belichick plays. He know what he has in his arsenal and knows how to utilize the talent.

 

Harrison though is saying it due to team around him, in particular the Defense

 

of interest too is the context as to why Harrison said this, 

 

To help hype the Broncos-Patriots/Manning-Brady contest that will be televised on its network Sunday night, NBC arranged for Dungy and former New England safety Rodney Harrison to speak to reporters about the game.

 

They were asked which quarterback they would take if there was but one game to play.

 

Dungy intimated each would take their former quarterback. And, indeed, Dungy did make the case for Manning.

 

But Harrison didn't take Brady. & then Harrison goes on to say the quote i noted in op

 

Read more: Peyton Manning, Tom Brady will meet for the 14th time Sunday night - The Denver Post http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_24567461/peyton-manning-tom-brady-will-meet-14th-time-sunday-night#ixzz2lOVEgY1R 

 

 

SO what Harrison says does not hold any water with you, Shane?

 

he's just lying, trying to be a nice guy after his playing days are over?

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

There's only been one true dynasty in the history of the NFL...   Lombardi's Packers

 

Name any NFL champ without Hall of fame (or future Hall fo Fame)  players

 

Way too simplistic..

 

You are putting the egg before the hen..

 

 Hall of Fame coaches get there because their teams won...

I knew you were going to say that...

 

How in the world was Noll's Steelers not a dynasty?

[oldunclemark]

OUM, you are not understanding this aspect.

 

Good coaches choose the system they want to run and GMs draft for it. I was never a fan of the system Dungy ran on D because playoff offenses made us bend and break. One dimensional teams like Jets, Ravens, we handled better defensively but if the team pulled out the surprise of balance on us like the Pats, Chargers and even Steelers for that one 2005 game, we were caught with our pants down. It is not a co-incidence when we won a game 15-6 that we won the SB. I do think there were flaws the way our team was built and the coach does have a hand in it.

 

I agree that good teams win SBs but how the team is built is dictated a lot by the coaches and GM more than just one marquee QB. That is why the coaches and GMs should get more credit than we have given them for playoff success.

I agree with most of what you say....but Dungy's system (we know he was a defensive specialist like Belichik) won for both Tampa and Indy..

 

Listen to guys like Warren Sapp..who credit Dungy with building that title team from scratch. Tampa was one of the worst teams in NFL history before Tony D.

 

He built Indy as a title contender almost from  scratch.....

 

Talking about the Cover-2.....You got tired of it (and I did too, to be honest) in Indy. It was frustrating to watch....and I think the league figured it out....somewhat

 

Coaches and GMs collect and select players....no doubt....and Belichick has proven he knows talent.  No know on him

 

But its very hard to say that Dungy's proven system for winning (in 2 [places) suggest he had less of an eye than Belichik's during his NE powerhouses.

 

I think they are, at worst, equals and I like the guy who's done it twice....