Manning's Best Core of Receivers Ever?

[atapcl]

Molly Qerim of NFL Network calls the Broncos receivers the best set of receivers Peyton Manning has ever had. It sounds like a slap in the face to the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark trio.

[Smonroe]

Molly Qerim of NFL Network calls the Broncos receivers the best set of receivers Peyton Manning has ever had. It sounds like a slap in the face to the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark trio.

 

Not sure if it's a slap in the face, but they certainly don't have the body of work of the Colts receivers to compare with.  There's no doubt about that.

 

I'm pretty sure both Marvin and Reggie are going to be in the HoF.  Not sure about any of those Broncos.  Unless Peyton plays another ten years.

[TKnight24]

Those are the best WR's he ever had. Wes Welker, D. Thomas, J. Thomas, Dressen, Tamme, & Decker...... I'm missing someone......

Explain to me how you defend all of them?

[mystrymaster]

Harrison is better than D Thomas but they are different recievers. Wayne is better than Decker, Welker is better than Stokely, Clark is better than the other Thomas.

 

By that way of thinking that is 3 to 1 Colts but collectively the way they work together they might be the best CORP of receivers he has ever had.

[MAC]

We've had many threads about this, and who knows what the answer is. Welker is special for what he does, but Thomas, Decker and Thomas strike me at this point as simply being physical specimens who benefit far more from Peyton than he does from them. Harrison was just a staggering talent, and Wayne over the years has developed into one of my favorites of all time.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the Broncos receivers mostly find the ball in their hands and then run over/past people. Marvin was simply magical in every respect. Reggie has superglue hands and toes that nail the sideline everytime - first down after first down even when you think he's covered. Dallas was more like the Broncos receivers -did most of his damage when open with a full head of steam.

 

And Peyton keeps getting better (mentally) - it's hard to factor that in.

 

Can't ignore the fact, however, that Harrison was often taken away in the playoffs by tough defenses that manhandled him. That only makes Thomas angry.   I can't imagine a team in history where I wouldn't want Marv on it, but the reality is that Peyton's chances of winning the super bowl are better with Thomas.

 

Now let me close my eyes and dream about a team with both.

[Smurphy1]

If you compare who is on the Broncos vs who was on the Colts the Colts come out ahead. But if you judge the current skill of the Broncos receivers vs the skill of the Colts at any one year I think the Broncos come out on top. Basically I think the total skill on the Broncos receivers now is higher than the total skill the Colts have had at any one point in time.

[throwing BBZ]

A slap on Dallas perhaps. And blocking is a valuable part of a receivers job. I would expect the Broncs players to have a clear advantage at that.
 

Over a season the Broncs Corp could look to be better.



 

[Stephen]

Molly Qerim of NFL Network calls the Broncos receivers the best set of receivers Peyton Manning has ever had. It sounds like a slap in the face to the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark trio.

it is his best core of receivers ever why do you think he's smashing records.

[Dark Superman]

Molly Qerim of NFL Network calls the Broncos receivers the best set of receivers Peyton Manning has ever had. It sounds like a slap in the face to the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark trio.

You mean Stokley.

[Superman]

We've had many threads about this, and who knows what the answer is. Welker is special for what he does, but Thomas, Decker and Thomas strike me at this point as simply being physical specimens who benefit far more from Peyton than he does from them. Harrison was just a staggering talent, and Wayne over the years has developed into one of my favorites of all time.

 

I guess what I'm saying is that the Broncos receivers mostly find the ball in their hands and then run over/past people. Marvin was simply magical in every respect. Reggie has superglue hands and toes that nail the sideline everytime - first down after first down even when you think he's covered. Dallas was more like the Broncos receivers -did most of his damage when open with a full head of steam.

 

And Peyton keeps getting better (mentally) - it's hard to factor that in.

 

Can't ignore the fact, however, that Harrison was often taken away in the playoffs by tough defenses that manhandled him. That only makes Thomas angry.   I can't imagine a team in history where I wouldn't want Marv on it, but the reality is that Peyton's chances of winning the super bowl are better with Thomas.

 

Now let me close my eyes and dream about a team with both.

 

I agree with a lot of this. The set of weapons Manning had in Indy was definitely more skilled, and the production they had will be hard to match (maybe not; if Manning keeps playing like he's playing now...) Reggie, Marvin and Stokley were technicians, Marvin was also uncoverable by any but the very best corners in the league (and even some of them couldn't touch him, like Champ Bailey), Clark was one of the first of these receiving threat tight ends, and Edge was an excellent pass catcher and blocker.

 

But I think the receivers he has now are more physically dominant, and they complement each other so well, especially now with Welker and Julius Thomas, that this is probably the hardest group of receivers to defend. Decker and DT are a physical matchup problem for any secondary in the league, including Seattle and Tampa. Welker has been unguardable for the past six years, unless you make your #1 corner follow him around the field, and even then the only guy who really took him out of the game was Revis. Julius Thomas is raw and inexperienced, but he has the physical attributes that make this new class of tight end so difficult to guard: he's big, he's fast, and he can jump, making him a matchup problem for even the best linebacker, safety or corner. And the backs can catch and run; Hillman is a home run threat every time he touches the ball. No one can be double teamed, because Manning will find the resulting weak spot. And this mix of weapons allows him to run his preferred 11 personnel -- three receivers, a tight end and a back -- and essentially never substitute or huddle. It's the perfect passing attack.

 

[OffensivelyPC]

Both units were amazing.  But right now, it's tough to argue with the kind of production he's getting.  With the rules being more pro-passing as they are today, it's tough to say whether the 2006 Colts would be putting up the same, better, or worse numbers, if they could time travel to today.  But if one is better than the other, the difference is going to be negligible if you ask me.

[House]

No.

[Superman]

Both units were amazing.  But right now, it's tough to argue with the kind of production he's getting.  With the rules being more pro-passing as they are today, it's tough to say whether the 2006 Colts would be putting up the same, better, or worse numbers, if they could time travel to today.  But if one is better than the other, the difference is going to be negligible if you ask me.

 

The hitting has been reeled in since then, but the 2004 Colts were partly a product of the increased emphasis on defensive holding, after Polian complained to the refs about the mugging we took in the AFCCG. After that, teams started defending the Colts differently (Manning only had 3700 yards in 2005, if you can imagine that, the year we started 13-0). But that was really the dramatic start of the shift to pass friendly offensive attacks.

 

A guy like Welker benefits the most from that shift. Can't just wrap him up without consequences, plus offenses are using the short passing game as a substitute for running, and the next thing you know, Welker has 700 catches in six seasons.

[Gavin]

In short Mannings (young)receivers are more physically gifted. faster, taller plus pretty good hands. I dont see them going at the pace that they are though for there whole careers however, Manning will be retiring sooner then later and Im not sure on what to expect from Osweiler although its a safe bet it wont be anything close to what Manning brings to the table. I believe physically they are the best corp of receivers he has ever had, Whether they can put up big numbers with what will surely be much less at the QB position then Manning in the future remains to be seen. But I'd take Thomas, Decker, Welker(to a lesser extent), on my team any day

[John Dee]

We live in a "RIGHT NOW" society...       In a world of "instant classics"    Would you expect anything less?

 

IF Denver's WR's (all three) each end with 10+ TD's, and a 1000 receiving yards at years end...  in 14 1/2 games.    Then ya they can be called the greatest.  Had Indy not shut Peyton down so early in his 49 TD year he would have easily had 55 TD's.

 

Peyton has been hot like this before.  ...      But we all seem to have short memories of late.

Molly Qerim of NFL Network calls the Broncos receivers the best set of receivers Peyton Manning has ever had. It sounds like a slap in the face to the Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, and Dallas Clark trio.

[John Dee]

And it helps that Peyton has played D's in the bottom tier of the NFL thus far.

 

Just saying..... ;)

[CjMcGirt23]

No way. Marvin and Reggie are future H.O.F. Thomas maybe a H.O.F. in the the future but it depends on his QB after Peyton. Welker might get in but Decker is average comapared to all these other names.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

I echo some of the thoughts of previous posters -- while Marvin and Reggie are great (Marvin definitely a HOFer, and I think Reggie needs this year plus another 2-3 seasons with 75+ receptions to cement himself), a major part of the reason they were so good with Peyton was the amount of work they put in to get their timing down.  A lot of the best CB's in the league said Marvin was the hardest WR to guard b/c he was so quick, had such great hands, and because his first few steps off the line were always the exact same no matter what the play call.

 

That being said, I think that J Thomas is a better WR threat than Clark and Welker is essentially a rich man's Stokely, so I think the bronocs have us beat at those spots.

 

Back to Reggie and Marvin -- one thing we always lacked when Peyton was on the Colts was a physically dominant WR (I might be wrong, but that lowlife Hank Baskett is the biggest WR we had on our active roster during Peyton's time here) -- I think for years this hurt us in the red-zone (see Peyton's pass to D. Thomas in the corner of the endzone last week, I don't think we make that look so easy with a smaller WR like Marv or Reggie). 

Anyway, my point is, while Reggie and Marvin may be better 'football players' or 'pure WRs' than D. Thomas or Decker, they certainly do not have that dominant size.

 

I do think, physically, this is the most gifted group of WRs that Peyton has ever played with -- you can tell he is still not totally pleased with their execution (IMO, Marv and Peyton executed better than any combo in history).  Denver really scares me, because they continue to get better and sharper every week.  I remember last year, Peyton threw 3 int's in the 1st quarter vs. the Falcons, but I don't think any of them were his fault.  Peyton works so hard on timing, that he usually throws to a spot (e.g., "hey marv, in 4.7 seconds this ball is going to be sitting above the inside hash of the 42 yard line, make sure your numbers are there to meet it" kind of thing) .. the int's he threw vs. atlanta were a result of his WR's not running to a spot (this actually happened with Peyton and Dallas Clark quite a bit).

 

I imagine it must have been a very hard adjustment for D. Thomas and Decker, because prior to Peyton it was like they were playing recess ball with Tebow -- rather than being forced to run sharp routes and expect a ball to be on their numbers when they turn to look for it, they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off. I have noticed, especially with D. Thomas that he has really been able to adjust to Peyton's style of play and get himself where Peyton wants him to be, rather than get himself where he feels like going.

 

The size and athleticism of this group of WRs allows (IMO) Peyton a little bit more window on his throws, as he can put the ball higher or further outside.  And, while I doubt that either Thomas or Decker will go on to have HOF careers (maybe Thomas, if he stays healthy -- he is one of the most physically gifted WRs in the league) -- and part of that is because of Peyton's age... Peyton has thrown more TDs through 4 weeks than any other team's combined offense has scored TDs through 4 weeks, that is extremely rare and I highly doubt that either Thomas or Decker will be in such a productive passing offense ever again after Peyton hangs them up.... I do have to say that I do think Thomas and Decker are hands down more physically gifted than Reggie and Marvin.

 

Anyway, I still think I would take Reggie and Marvin in their prime over Thomas and Decker right now (in another year or 2 of working with Peyton, this could very well change).  That is because the chemistry that Peyton had with Marvin and Reggie was so ridiculous -- you can still tell there are times after games when Peyton is serious when he says 'things could have been more efficient' even if he threw for 7 TDs, and that is because he is still not 100% on the same page with his WR corps in Denver when it comes to making audibles or adjustments.  There was one play last year, where Peyton connected with D. Thomas in the back of the endzone (Peyton basically threw it at the DBs back and Thomas caught it in the middle of the endzone) where after the game Peyton said something like "that is the first time this season he saw what I saw when I made my hand signal to him at the line" -- it has only seemed to gotten better since then.

 

While Reggie and Marvin are 2 of my all time favorite players, I cannot argue that they are more physically gifted athletes than what Peyton has now.

 

However, I don't think Peyton's success is coming strictly from his WRs... I think this is the best team that Peyton has ever played on -- not to diss any of our old Colts squads, but Peyton never had a defense that was nearly this good -- and I think he has a better overall OL than he has ever had, and a more balanced running game than he has had since the days of Edge. 

 

I think the reason Peyton has thrown 0 picks this year is because he does not have to force anything.  I always got the feeling that Peyton's picks in Indy often came because he knew our defense was so bad that if he didn't score, the other team would come back and score, so he made a lot of forced throws.  Our defense (and whole team) when Peyton was here were built strictly around Peyton -- and I think that is why we struggled a lot in adverse weather conditions -- because if we were forced to run/stop the run to win, we had a very hard time doing it.  However, if we had a lead, and our defense could go into all-out rush the passer mode we were usually in good shape.

 

I guess, the point of my argument is -- D. Thomas (IMO) is the most physically gifted WR that Peyton has ever played with and I think the combination of him and Decker is more 'physically gifted' than the combo of Marv and Reggie.  J Thomas is more physically gifted than D. Clark and Welker is a richman's version of Stokely.  So overall, I would say this group in Denver is more 'physically gifted' than any other of Peyton's past WR groups.  However, if I had to choose a group of Marv, Reggie, Dallas in their prime against Thomas, Decker, Thomas today -- I would go with Marv, Reggie, and Dallas (I would still want Welker over stokely).  The reason for that is, the chemistry and camaraderie that Marv, Reggie, and Dallas had with Peyton was second-to-none.  Keep in mind, this took years to build and improve on -- so if Peyton is healthy in 2-3 years and has this same receiving corps the bonds that they build might surpass what we had in Indy --- especially if Denver can afford to keep their o-line and defense as good as it is.

[bavanlan]

Those are the best WR's he ever had. Wes Welker, D. Thomas, J. Thomas, Dressen, Tamme, & Decker...... I'm missing someone......

Explain to me how you defend all of them?

 

Let them snap the ball and get called for 12 men on the field.

[bavanlan]

And it helps that Peyton has played D's in the bottom tier of the NFL thus far.

 

Just saying..... ;)

 

No kidding.  I'll eat my words if he ends the year at 6,000 yards and 64 TD's, but there's no way that's sustainable.

[OffensivelyPC]

The hitting has been reeled in since then, but the 2004 Colts were partly a product of the increased emphasis on defensive holding, after Polian complained to the refs about the mugging we took in the AFCCG. After that, teams started defending the Colts differently (Manning only had 3700 yards in 2005, if you can imagine that, the year we started 13-0). But that was really the dramatic start of the shift to pass friendly offensive attacks.

 

A guy like Welker benefits the most from that shift. Can't just wrap him up without consequences, plus offenses are using the short passing game as a substitute for running, and the next thing you know, Welker has 700 catches in six seasons.

That AFCCG was sickening to watch.  I mean, and what was so bad about it was I remember we'd get these ticky tack fouls, but in the corners of the screen, I could see Ty Law do all but basically tackle the WR before he could get off the line.  But as far as passing production, while I agree with you that it may have been the start, I don't think it had much of an impact - statistically speaking.  There was no substantial change to passing stats league-wide pretty much from the mid-90's to 2008.  It would hover in between roughly 205-215 yards per game, per team during that time.  If averages were scientific law, Manning would have theoretically had about the same passing numbers from 2004, to 2005, to 2006 etc.  While he didn't, lets be honest, we're talking about a QB that defies the norm.

 

That being said, I don't know why the concussion rules have an impact on the passing game, but they do, but ever since that rule was enacted in 2009, there has been a dramatic increase in passting stats league wide.  In 2009, the average passing yards was 218 YPG, a modest increase, but nothing I would call substantial.  Then as the rule has evolved, because to my knowledge, there hasn't been any other rule change so substantial that would warrant such an increase, but from 2010 to 2013 the passing yards per game have increased each year to 221, 229, 231, 248, respectively. That's just ridiculous.  TDs have seen a similar increase (though the difference is not as extreme since there is little variance between 1-3 TDs as there is 200 and 250 yards).  I have to think the average this year will eventually trend down, but heck, with the rate it's been increasing, God only knows.

 

By the way, here is the link in case you were curious.  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

[Superman]

No kidding.  I'll eat my words if he ends the year at 6,000 yards and 64 TD's, but there's no way that's sustainable.

 

And zero picks.

 

What's crazy is that, watching the four games, he hasn't really thrown into coverage or had any passes close to being picked off. I might have missed it, but I'm not sure he has any dropped interceptions.

 

More to the point, the pace is not sustainable. But cut his numbers down by a third and they're still out of this world and leading the NFL right now, touchdowns at least. But usually, the offense takes a couple weeks to stat clicking. The defenses are usually playing better at the beginning of the season. Manning has typically played his best football in November, statistically speaking. So while the pace is out of this world, it's not impossible that the offense continues this level of efficiency, even against better defensive teams.

[Superman]

That AFCCG was sickening to watch.  I mean, and what was so bad about it was I remember we'd get these ticky tack fouls, but in the corners of the screen, I could see Ty Law do all but basically tackle the WR before he could get off the line.  But as far as passing production, while I agree with you that it may have been the start, I don't think it had much of an impact - statistically speaking.  There was no substantial change to passing stats league-wide pretty much from the mid-90's to 2008.  It would hover in between roughly 205-215 yards per game, per team during that time.  If averages were scientific law, Manning would have theoretically had about the same passing numbers from 2004, to 2005, to 2006 etc.  While he didn't, lets be honest, we're talking about a QB that defies the norm.

 

That being said, I don't know why the concussion rules have an impact on the passing game, but they do, but ever since that rule was enacted in 2009, there has been a dramatic increase in passting stats league wide.  In 2009, the average passing yards was 218 YPG, a modest increase, but nothing I would call substantial.  Then as the rule has evolved, because to my knowledge, there hasn't been any other rule change so substantial that would warrant such an increase, but from 2010 to 2013 the passing yards per game have increased each year to 221, 229, 231, 248, respectively. That's just ridiculous.  TDs have seen a similar increase (though the difference is not as extreme since there is little variance between 1-3 TDs as there is 200 and 250 yards).  I have to think the average this year will eventually trend down, but heck, with the rate it's been increasing, God only knows.

 

By the way, here is the link in case you were curious.  http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/NFL/passing.htm

 

Lots of good thoughts.

 

To the first, Manning was a pioneer when it comes to this no-huddle stuff, the short passing, checking at the line, taking what the defense gives you, etc. Everyone else was playing catch-up in 2004-2006, while Manning's attack was primed and ready to take advantage of the new rules' emphasis from the jump. The only reason they didn't keep producing at that level is that teams stopped blitzing, started playing two deep safeties virtually every down, and tried their best not to give up big plays. And the Colts responded by going more balanced, and won even more games.

 

Another point, the quarterbacking league-wide wasn't all that good back then. In 2004, by yardage, the 6th best passing team was the Broncos, led by Jake Plummer. Statistically, it was really Manning, then everyone else. Favre was still around, Culpepper had his best year, Trent Green and Marc Bulger were good, but no one was on Manning's level. Like you said, Manning defied the norm at that time. It wasn't until Brady and Brees started really throwing the ball around that anyone was anywhere near the Colts in terms of passing efficiency. So the averages don't show it, but the Colts numbers and results do.

 

As for the concussion rules, defenders are more hesitant to hit receivers when the ball gets there. They have to be more disciplined with where and when they hit receivers, and with what part of the body they hit them. That has a cumulative effect, as offenses start to use the middle of the field in different ways, ways they wouldn't dare back in the head hunter days. (By the way, the Colts always were more willing to throw seam routes, and receivers took punishment because of it. Clark had some concussions, as did Stokley. Marvin and Reggie were always known for ducking under big hits.)

 

The rules change you didn't mention is the protection of quarterbacks. You can't hit them in the head, period. After 2008, their legs are protected when they're in the pocket. That has also benefited the passing game.

 

And the last thing is that college quarterbacks have been coming in more prepared over the last few years. Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford (has fallen off, but was good statistically in his early years), and now the five or six new guys who can really throw the ball -- Kaepernick, Newton, Luck, Wilson, Griffin, Tannehill. There are others in those categories that I can't think of right now. But that's led to more passing from teams that would traditionally not be willing to rely on the passing game.

[OffensivelyPC]

Lots of good thoughts.

 

To the first, Manning was a pioneer when it comes to this no-huddle stuff, the short passing, checking at the line, taking what the defense gives you, etc. Everyone else was playing catch-up in 2004-2006, while Manning's attack was primed and ready to take advantage of the new rules' emphasis from the jump. The only reason they didn't keep producing at that level is that teams stopped blitzing, started playing two deep safeties virtually every down, and tried their best not to give up big plays. And the Colts responded by going more balanced, and won even more games.

 

Another point, the quarterbacking league-wide wasn't all that good back then. In 2004, by yardage, the 6th best passing team was the Broncos, led by Jake Plummer. Statistically, it was really Manning, then everyone else. Favre was still around, Culpepper had his best year, Trent Green and Marc Bulger were good, but no one was on Manning's level. Like you said, Manning defied the norm at that time. It wasn't until Brady and Brees started really throwing the ball around that anyone was anywhere near the Colts in terms of passing efficiency. So the averages don't show it, but the Colts numbers and results do.

 

As for the concussion rules, defenders are more hesitant to hit receivers when the ball gets there. They have to be more disciplined with where and when they hit receivers, and with what part of the body they hit them. That has a cumulative effect, as offenses start to use the middle of the field in different ways, ways they wouldn't dare back in the head hunter days. (By the way, the Colts always were more willing to throw seam routes, and receivers took punishment because of it. Clark had some concussions, as did Stokley. Marvin and Reggie were always known for ducking under big hits.)

 

The rules change you didn't mention is the protection of quarterbacks. You can't hit them in the head, period. After 2008, their legs are protected when they're in the pocket. That has also benefited the passing game.

 

And the last thing is that college quarterbacks have been coming in more prepared over the last few years. Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Sam Bradford (has fallen off, but was good statistically in his early years), and now the five or six new guys who can really throw the ball -- Kaepernick, Newton, Luck, Wilson, Griffin, Tannehill. There are others in those categories that I can't think of right now. But that's led to more passing from teams that would traditionally not be willing to rely on the passing game.

Also good points.  Completely forgot about the QB protection.  I felt like I was forgetting something, but couldn't pinpoint it. That would also change the way guys get after the QB.  I think the point you made about defenses being hesitant as to when, where, and how to hit a WR have more of an impact, but there's no doubt that rules protecting QBs have had an impact.  If I'm a HC, I'm much more comfortable with throwing the ball more often with that extra little bit of help from the league.

 

I agree with you on the league-wide quarterbacking.  It had occurred to me, but I didn't really take it into consideration the string of draft classes when you started rambling off all the new guys.  Not including this year because we won't know how any of these guys will do until bare minimum, next year.  But the 2011 and 2012 classes were really deep with talent as far as QBs go, and it's been suggested that next year's QB pool will be very strong once again. 

[MAC]

And it helps that Peyton has played D's in the bottom tier of the NFL thus far.

 

Just saying..... ;)

Actually the Giants, Ravens and Raiders are JUST below the halfway mark - despite having been lit up by the Broncos.

 

It's a circular argument. I just read that in their "other" three games the Ravens are #4 in defense. We've all spent many years watching Peyton score on possession after possession regardless of opponent. None of those four are top teams this year, but the final score has as much to do with the inability of the other offenses to keep the Broncos off the field as anything. The Eagles had the #2 overall offense. Against a weaker defense that could have been a shootout, with one key mistake by the Broncos offense giving the Eagles the win.

 

The Broncos as a TEAM have completely outclassed the opposition so far, and many of the remaining opponents appear to match up just as badly. The interesting part is going to be the games against the Chiefs, Patriots, Texans and Colts - can they control the ball, score enough, and slow down the Broncs enough to win. The Chargers and Cowboys are also interesting because their QBs have been playing great. Can any of those teams pressure Peyton and force mistakes. Can they hold them to FGs instead of TDs. But none of those teams has much of a margin for error. The Broncos in contrast have been making one stupid mistake after another and still dominating.

 

And this is without Von Miller and Champ Bailey.

[MAC]

(By the way, the Colts always were more willing to throw seam routes, and receivers took punishment because of it. Clark had some concussions, as did Stokley. Marvin and Reggie were always known for ducking under big hits.)

 

Seam route + concussion = Collie

[John Dee]

These teams are bad...

 

Giants, Ravens, Raiders, and EGGles.  They get torched quite often...  not just by the "MIGHTY MANNING"

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense

Actually the Giants, Ravens and Raiders are JUST below the halfway mark - despite having been lit up by the Broncos.

 

It's a circular argument. I just read that in their "other" three games the Ravens are #4 in defense. We've all spent many years watching Peyton score on possession after possession regardless of opponent. None of those four are top teams this year, but the final score has as much to do with the inability of the other offenses to keep the Broncos off the field as anything. The Eagles had the #2 overall offense. Against a weaker defense that could have been a shootout, with one key mistake by the Broncos offense giving the Eagles the win.

 

The Broncos as a TEAM have completely outclassed the opposition so far, and many of the remaining opponents appear to match up just as badly. The interesting part is going to be the games against the Chiefs, Patriots, Texans and Colts - can they control the ball, score enough, and slow down the Broncs enough to win. The Chargers and Cowboys are also interesting because their QBs have been playing great. Can any of those teams pressure Peyton and force mistakes. Can they hold them to FGs instead of TDs. But none of those teams has much of a margin for error. The Broncos in contrast have been making one stupid mistake after another and still dominating.

 

And this is without Von Miller and Champ Bailey.

[John Dee]

Points per GAME....

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPointsPerGame/position/defense

 

Oak      18

Bal        16

NYG      31

Philly     32

 

This is through 4 games...    a large sample size...   

 

 

Philly and the Giants are just horrifically bad right now.    And Baltimore and Oak are just not very good.

[MAC]

These teams are bad...

 

Giants, Ravens, Raiders, and EGGles.  They get torched quite often...  not just by the "MIGHTY MANNING"

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/position/defense

Did I not just refer to the exact same reference point? Let me try again.

 

I said that the Ravens, Giants and Raiders are just below the middle. I'll be more specific.

 

Per the more up to date NFL site:

 

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2013&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

 

The Ravens are #15, Raiders #17, Giants #21 - despite all getting torched by the #1 offense.

 

IE: The Ravens have given up 345.8 yards per game,  291.0 when not playing the Broncos.

     The Raiders have given up 349.2 yards per game, 287.0 when not playing the Broncos.

     The Giants have given up 384.2 yards per game, 374.3 when not playing the Broncos

 

Note that the Raiders revised number would slot them at #3 overall, the Ravens #4 - better than the 49ers, Seahawks, Chiefs and Colts amongst others. The Giants would be #18. The Eagles are the only team that is getting ripped up by everyone. It doesn't mean much after only four games because you might make a similar argument about others teams as well, but it's a pretty good indicator.

 

I didn't say that these were great teams, I said that three of them were average or better defensively, but the games turned into blowouts because their offenses couldn't compete. If someone does what the Steelers used to do - put up 21 points while using half the game in the process - the Broncos will have less time and more pressure.

 

Is this news to you? It's the only reason we would think that the Colts - amongst others - have a chance in heck to beat them.

[ReMeDy]

Physical receivers are so hard to defend. As the league becomes more pass-oriented, defenses are fielding more skinny defensive backs, but as we've seen with New England's TE sets, too many defensive backs can be counter-productive. Manning has so many physical receivers, unlike the finesse receivers he had with the Colts in Reggie and Harrison.

 

Also, one other thing that helps?.... Denver's o-line is a LOT better than ours was. Remember with the Colts Peyton would get pressured almost immediately after the snap every time?

[MAC]

Points per GAME....

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/total/sort/totalPointsPerGame/position/defense

 

Oak      18

Bal        16

NYG      31

Philly     32

 

This is through 4 games...    a large sample size...   

 

 

Philly and the Giants are just horrifically bad right now.    And Baltimore and Oak are just not very good.

Actually - as I said - it isn't a large sample size at all.

 

Never the less, using points per game would have the Ravens at #3, Raiders #9. The Giants would drop to the bottom in this method. Yes they are giving up 30 points per game - out of proportion to their yards per game. Probably something to do with their offense scoring seven points in their last two games.

[Goodtimes]

Nope, he is right. Clark was never a factor when Stokely was with the team.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Superman

[Goodtimes]

Welker will already be in. The other three could well be too. That tight end is a star....

Edited October 2, 2013 by Superman

[Goodtimes]

First, Clark was never as good at Thomas is right now on the best day of his life. I also think the other two are better than Harrison and Wayne because they are big, tough and physical. Many experts think that Harrison was just a creation of Peyton Manning's and without him, he would have been a little better than average.

Edited October 2, 2013 by Superman

[Goodtimes]

And he is going to keep smashing them. He won't keep up this pace but he will have the best year by a QB in NFL history. Take that Mr. noodle arm Irsay...

Edited October 2, 2013 by Superman

[Franklin County]

How is Broncos news not in the NFL section???

[Dustin]

First, Clark was never as good at Thomas is right now on the best day of his life. I also think the other two are better than Harrison and Wayne because they are big, tough and physical. Many experts think that Harrison was just a creation of Peyton Manning's and without him, he would have been a little better than average.

 

Which experts? John Clayton?

[Superman]

How is Broncos news not in the NFL section???

 

It's going now...

[Superman]

Seam route + concussion = Collie

 

Still hurts my feelings. Collie was on a tear that year.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

First, Clark was never as good at Thomas is right now on the best day of his life. I also think the other two are better than Harrison and Wayne because they are big, tough and physical. Many experts think that Harrison was just a creation of Peyton Manning's and without him, he would have been a little better than average.

That is one of the most *ic statements I have ever read.