Anyone interested to know what we were offered for Luck last year during the draft?

[JlynRN]

Wow that's a boatload of picks.  But, I am sooooo glad that Grigson and Irsay didn't do it.  Like others have said, we are set at the QB position for the next 10-15 years !!!!

[Everyone]

here a link to the article of Holgrens interview

 

http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2013/09/mike_holmgren_blasts_cleveland.html#incart_flyout_sports

[NewColtsFan]

Don't get me wrong, but if this is true, this would have been worth it.  Yes, I am glad we didn't take it, but it would have been worth it.

 

 

Don't get me wrong,  but if this is true (and I'm pretty sure that it is)  this wouldn't be close to market value for Andrew Luck.

 

Heck,  the Redskins gave up three #1's and a 2 for RG3....    

 

And Luck is much better and more valuable than Griffith.

 

Very glad we didn't do this....   and I doubt it took more than a minute to say "no thanks..."

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

For anyone interested we would have had:

 

• Round 1 Pick 3
• Round 1 Pick 22
• Round 2 Pick 2
• Round 2 Pick 5
• Round 3 Pick 1
• Round 3 Pick 24
• Round 3 Pick 29
• Round 4 Pick 5
• Round 5 Pick 1
• Round 5 Pick 25

 

And a few 6-7th rounders. Glad we didn't take it. 

Browns could have had 30 first round picks and I would say no deal...you don't pass on the best prospect arguably of all time. 

[CroatianColtsFan21]

with all those picks, we could have kept manning, drafted matt kalil, move AC to RT - o-line set..

 

drafted russell wilson in 3rd round, let him sit as an insurance for peyton..

 

with that many picks, even if grigs hit on 50% it would have made the team a lot better..

 

the only problem was, with peyton's bonus comming before the 2012 draft (i think it was something like 30mil$) we wouldn't have been able to sign all those picks and no FA either..

[Superman]

The bottom line is we could have rebuilt the team around Peyton and been a Super Bowl contender for the rest of his career AND put the pieces in place to continue after he was gone.  

 

Now we have a rebuilding time that is gonna be a struggle and we are not yet a Super Bowl contender.  

 

Fifteen years of Luck is a low percentage at this point.

 

Look around the league for the past 30 years and you'll find that rebuilding isn't all its cracked up to be.  But, when you have the rare once in a lifetime opportunity to have a special player such as Unitas or Manning you make it for all its worth for as long as you possibly can!  

 

It's a shame that there are so many Manning haters out there that we can't even mention his name in relation to a team that he brought respect to after it was lost for over 25years.

 

Show me the Manning haters... ?

[Superman]

with all those picks, we could have kept manning, drafted matt kalil, move AC to RT - o-line set..

 

drafted russell wilson in 3rd round, let him sit as an insurance for peyton..

 

with that many picks, even if grigs hit on 50% it would have made the team a lot better..

 

the only problem was, with peyton's bonus comming before the 2012 draft (i think it was something like 30mil$) we wouldn't have been able to sign all those picks and no FA either..

 

Manning contract would have eaten up cap space, but we could have made it work. We would have gotten rid of Freeney, probably not resigned Mathis (if we'd kept Manning, we probably would have kept Wayne). That's $20m right there. It's a wash. Probably no Redding and Satele, but with 7 picks in the first three rounds, we probably could have filled those holes.

 

Problem is that teams that are relying on a bunch of first year players like that don't often do well in the playoffs. A big draft haul like that really sets you up to be super talented in two or three years, not right away.

[Gavin]

Tempting, I really liked Wilson coming out and felt he should have went a round higher

[John Dee]

Some folks on this board have no idea just how valuable Andrew Luck is to this team.  Put ANY other QB not named P Manning, Brees, Rodgers, or Brady at QB for Indy last yer and this team doesn't win 4 games.

 

Russel Wilson QB's a POWERHOUSE TEAM, he completed what 8 passes against SF and they destroyed the Niners.    RG3 has been exposed as a very average QB without the threat of him running, that first read is simply not there this year.

 

Luck masks A LOT of "very mediocre" on this team.

 

Don't get me wrong,  but if this is true (and I'm pretty sure that it is)  this wouldn't be close to market value for Andrew Luck.

 

Heck,  the Redskins gave up three #1's and a 2 for RG3....    

 

And Luck is much better and more valuable than Griffith.

 

Very glad we didn't do this....   and I doubt it took more than a minute to say "no thanks..."

[Valpo2004]

For anyone interested we would have had:

 

• Round 1 Pick 3
• Round 1 Pick 22
• Round 2 Pick 2
• Round 2 Pick 5
• Round 3 Pick 1
• Round 3 Pick 24
• Round 3 Pick 29
• Round 4 Pick 5
• Round 5 Pick 1
• Round 5 Pick 25

 

And a few 6-7th rounders. Glad we didn't take it. 

 

If we knew everything we know now, such as Russell Wilson being the player he is, then it would have actually been to our advantage because we could have gone win now with Manning and still secured the QB position for the next 15 years.  

 

That having been said there is no way we could have at the time known that Wilson was going to be that type of player.  

 

So it was the better and safer decision at the time to take Luck.  

[Goodtimes]

10 out of 10 times I would have released Peyton and drafted Luck. Even with hindsight, and seeing what Peyton's doing this year, just because of the possibility of 10-15 years versus a possible 4, maybe 5.  

 

That goes against the main stream thinking in the NFL. When you think you are close to winning a Super Bowl, you go all out like Elway did for Peyton. When you have a Super Star, you keep him and get the talent around him upgraded. I would have kept Peyton, taken the haul in draft picks that would have been offered four Luck, cleared out the aging veterans and made room for a couple of free agents and by now, Peyton would have had the Colt back in the running for the Super Bowl for another three or four years. Last year was an absolute fluke and rebuilding the way the Colts did it will probably lead to years of mediocrity and missing the playoffs. The Colts are better than they were last year but that big "thump" you hear is that they are coming down to earth.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Superman

[Valpo2004]

Some folks on this board have no idea just how valuable Andrew Luck is to this team.  Put ANY other QB not named P Manning, Brees, Rodgers, or Brady at QB for Indy last yer and this team doesn't win 4 games.

 

Russel Wilson QB's a POWERHOUSE TEAM, he completed what 8 passes against SF and they destroyed the Niners.    RG3 has been exposed as a very average QB without the threat of him running, that first read is simply not there this year.

 

Luck masks A LOT of "very mediocre" on this team.

 

I agree with you that Luck masks a lot of mediocre on this team.  

 

But would be getting a lot of talent around the QB too.  We could have also for example grabbed Tannehill with the #3 pick and secured the QB position.

 

Let's also remember that the talent around the QB in say Houston masks the mediocre of Shaub.  

 

And honestly in the long run I like Wilson and Tannehill more then I like Shaub.   

 

I would say knowing everything we know now, it might have been a good idea.  Make all the right calls and you have a team of super star rookies surrounding Manning for the next 3 years.  I mean shoot, knowing everything we know now we could have drafted Alfred Morris in the 6th round.  

 

BUT knowing what you knew then, just straight up drafting Luck was the safest call for the long run.  

 

If you miss on the QB successor, then the team is stuck for many years in the purgatory of bad quarterbacking.  And that's not to mention the possibility of missing on some of those other picks.  

[BadLuck]

The trade didn't happen because of football reasons. It happened because of marketing and , of course, the bottom line. Stars sell. Building a solid roster doesn't necessarily generate the storylines that are all the rage in the era of "sportstainment". Look at the press Luck gets and all the attention he brings the Colts way, and his career thus far has been pretty pitiful. The benefit of being the #1 overall pick. The same people that hyped you will build you up so they don't get the proverbial "egg on face".

 

The big name quarterback made the Colts relevant in the past (Peyton), Irsay isn't going to stray from that business model. It's a business people. Winning games is secondary to making $$$. 

Edited September 20, 2013 by Superman
removed inappropriate comment

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

The trade didn't happen because of football reasons. It happened because of marketing and , of course, the bottom line. Stars sell. Building a solid roster doesn't necessarily generate the storylines that are all the rage in the era of "sportstainment". Look at the press Luck gets and all the attention he brings the Colts way, and his career thus far has been pretty pitiful. The benefit of being the #1 overall pick. The same people that hyped you will build you up so they don't get the proverbial "egg on face".

 

The big name quarterback made the Colts relevant in the past (Peyton), Irsay isn't going to stray from that business model. It's a business people. Winning games is secondary to making $$$. [mod edit]

You are kidding right?  You are wrong on so many levels.  First of all the Colts were interested in drafting Wilson to back up Luck, so right there your argument holds no water.  Second you don't pass on the best prospect of a generation and maybe of all time. Period.  But go ahead, assume the midwest is passively racist.  And that this racist midwest team if the first and only one of two teams in the history of the NFL to have an African American coach win the Supberbowl (which people used to say the same thing about black coaches that they now say a black Qb can't win a SB).  Luck's career pitiful? Are you crazy? Either you are trolling or you have never watched a game a football in your life.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Superman

[Mameluc]

cant find the article but holmgren also mentioned that by the owner meeting Grigson already had made his mind up with Luck and that if for whatever reason, we traded down and dont get luck, we would have taken Richardson.

[IndyColtScout]

Out of my friends, I was one of the few people that wanted us to trade the #1.

A) I felt 18 deserved to retire here.

B) I saw what the Skins gave the Rams which I believe was 3 1st rounders & a 2nd.

Personally, CLE whole 2012 draft is less value than what the Rams got for #2 IMO.

If someone offered us 3 1st, 3 2nd, & 3 3rds (which I don't think would have been unreasonable) I would have 100% listened.

All those picks would have given 18 cheap & young ammunition to rebuild.

However, I am very happy with 12 & hope he spends his entire career here.

[SteelCityColt]

Wait, so you're telling me we could have had Trent Richardson?

:clap:

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Tempting, I really liked Wilson coming out and felt he should have went a round higher

I'm an Iowa Hawkeye and big ten fan, so I knew all too well about Russell.  Every time an AFC South team was picking in the 2012 Draft I was holding my breath they didn't take him.  I have never laughed louder in my life when the Jags drafted a punter a few spots before Wilson was drafted.

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Out of my friends, I was one of the few people that wanted us to trade the #1.

A) I felt 18 deserved to retire here.

B) I saw what the Skins gave the Rams which I believe was 3 1st rounders & a 2nd.

Personally, CLE whole 2012 draft is less value than what the Rams got for #2 IMO.

If someone offered us 3 1st, 3 2nd, & 3 3rds (which I don't think would have been unreasonable) I would have 100% listened.

All those picks would have given 18 cheap & young ammunition to rebuild.

However, I am very happy with 12 & hope he spends his entire career here.

All that is good and all but the biggest part of Irsay's decision was Manning's health.  Alot of people thought there was a decent chance Peyton would never play again.

[SteelCityColt]

The trade didn't happen because of football reasons. It happened because of marketing and , of course, the bottom line. Stars sell. Building a solid roster doesn't necessarily generate the storylines that are all the rage in the era of "sportstainment". Look at the press Luck gets and all the attention he brings the Colts way, and his career thus far has been pretty pitiful. The benefit of being the #1 overall pick. The same people that hyped you will build you up so they don't get the proverbial "egg on face".

 

The big name quarterback made the Colts relevant in the past (Peyton), Irsay isn't going to stray from that business model. It's a business people. Winning games is secondary to making $$$. Russell Wilson/RG3 were never options for Irsay anyway. He is the wrong color for the midwest market. They like their signal callers white.

 

Are you like "Goodluck"'s evil twin or something, not there's a sobering thought. 

 

 

There aren't words to describe how stupid your comment is, considering I'd say aside from #18 the majority of the Indy Colts legends are black and have been heavily marketed and pushed by the team (as they very much should be). 

[Valpo2004]

Are you like "Goodluck"'s evil twin or something, not there's a sobering thought. 

 

 

There aren't words to describe how stupid your comment is, considering I'd say aside from #18 the majority of the Indy Colts legends are black and have been heavily marketed and pushed by the team (as they very much should be). 

 

Not to mention Irsay himself said that if we had the #2 pick instead of #1 that they would have still released Peyton and gone with RG3.  If he had the 3rd or lower he would have just kept Peyton.  

 

And having a good QB is the most important position to be good at on the football field.  

[Coffeedrinker]

If you mean which team traded their whole draft for a player it was the bears for the spot below Edge to draft Ricky Wlliams. They traded their whole 1999 draft (1 pick in every round but the 2nd ) and their 1st and 3rd in the 2000 draft.

 

The Saints not the Bears.

[King Colt]

How many draft picks have been losers for the Browns in the past 15 years?

[BadLuck]

Not to mention Irsay himself said that if we had the #2 pick instead of #1 that they would have still released Peyton and gone with RG3.  If he had the 3rd or lower he would have just kept Peyton.  

 

And having a good QB is the most important position to be good at on the football field.  

 

Saying you'd do something and actually doing it are two different things.

[dw49]

The Saints not the Bears.

 

Yes ... dumb mistake on my part .... but 3 times in one thread is my limit to owning up to it.

[BadLuck]

 Luck's career pitiful? Are you crazy?

 

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/adjusted-interceptions-2012

 

"Andrew Luck led the league in dropped interceptions in 2012; in fact, dropped interceptions show that the efficiency gap between Luck and fellow rookies Robert Griffin and Russell Wilson was even larger than shown by stats like DVOA....Luck had 18 interceptions, the second-highest total in the NFL, and also had 14 dropped picks. Wilson had just 10 picks and five dropped picks, while Griffin had five of each. Luck's total of 14 dropped interceptions is the second-highest season total since 2007, behind only Mark Sanchez's 15 for 2010."

 

He's obviously lacking something. We should have kept Peyton. With Peyton, the Colts would actually stand a chance in San Fran.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Superman

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2013/adjusted-interceptions-2012

 

"Andrew Luck led the league in dropped interceptions in 2012; in fact, dropped interceptions show that the efficiency gap between Luck and fellow rookies Robert Griffin and Russell Wilson was even larger than shown by stats like DVOA....Luck had 18 interceptions, the second-highest total in the NFL, and also had 14 dropped picks. Wilson had just 10 picks and five dropped picks, while Griffin had five of each. Luck's total of 14 dropped interceptions is the second-highest season total since 2007, behind only Mark Sanchez's 15 for 2010."

 

He's obviously lacking something. We should have kept Peyton.

. Troll

[BadLuck]

. Troll

 

Why am I a troll? I love my Colts, but this kid has a long way to go. Imagine if those 18 dropped interceptions weren't? We would have had the 1st pick again more than likely...

[dw49]

Manning contract would have eaten up cap space, but we could have made it work. We would have gotten rid of Freeney, probably not resigned Mathis (if we'd kept Manning, we probably would have kept Wayne). That's $20m right there. It's a wash. Probably no Redding and Satele, but with 7 picks in the first three rounds, we probably could have filled those holes.

 

Problem is that teams that are relying on a bunch of first year players like that don't often do well in the playoffs. A big draft haul like that really sets you up to be super talented in two or three years, not right away.

 

 

The thing is this IMO. You had a bad roster with no cap room. That generally means a rebuild. You just don't rebuild with a 36 year old QB that you need to pay 20 mill per year. The only thing that might have made sense other than what Irsay did was to trade the draft picks for established players . That would probably have been impossible to do with the way todays contracts are written. You certainly elude to the issue but I'm just restating it a bit. It would not have been smart to keep Manning and surround him with a bunch of players that would take a couple years to develop. Maybe looking at how Manning looks today at 37 , you can make a bit of a case for it . But when Irsay had to make his decision , he had a 36 year old QB that couldn't throw the ball yet.

[Superman]

That goes against the main stream thinking in the NFL. When you think you are close to winning a Super Bowl, you go all out like Elway did for Peyton. When you have a Super Star, you keep him and get the talent around him upgraded. I would have kept Peyton, taken the haul in draft picks that would have been offered four Luck, cleared out the aging veterans and made room for a couple of free agents and by now, Peyton would have had the Colt back in the running for the Super Bowl for another three or four years. Last year was an absolute fluke and rebuilding the way the Colts did it will probably lead to years of mediocrity and missing the playoffs. The Colts are better than they were last year but that big "thump" you hear is that they are coming down to earth.

 

The 2011 Colts had big problems. The roster was depleted, the coaching staff was inept, and biggest of all, there was no quarterback. Manning was not healthy, and no one -- not even him -- knew if he was ever going to play again. The mainstream thinking in the NFL at that time was to release him and draft Andrew Luck. And that's without consideration to the money issue, which just didn't make sense at the time. 

 

The Broncos gambled on him, but they didn't give him any guaranteed money. No signing bonus, and if he had showed up to camp unable to perform, they could have released or restructured his contract. And mainstream thinking still considered it a huge gamble, because no one -- not even Manning -- knew if he'd be able to perform at a high level.

 

Your post is revisionist history, at best. In March of 2012, it did NOT make sense to guarantee an additional $28m to Manning. As much as I wanted us to keep him (and you can go scour the archives, if you want, because I was one of those who argued about how we could make it work), it didn't make financial sense, nor did it make football sense. 

[Guest TeamLoloJones]

Why am I a troll? I love my Colts, but this kid has a long way to go. Imagine if those 18 dropped interceptions weren't? We would have had the 1st pick again more than likely...

I don't care if your a Colts fan.  You called the midwest racist and said our franchise Qb is basically a scrub.  The Colts don't want you as a fan.  TROLL

[Superman]

Mod note: I just removed some posts and edited others that were off topic and inflammatory in nature. Please stick to the topic at hand and abide by the rules, posted here: http://forums.colts.com/index.php?app=forums&module=extras&section=boardrules

 

Thank you.

[NewColtsFan]

The trade didn't happen because of football reasons. It happened because of marketing and , of course, the bottom line. Stars sell. Building a solid roster doesn't necessarily generate the storylines that are all the rage in the era of "sportstainment".

 

Look at the press Luck gets and all the attention he brings the Colts way, and his career thus far has been pretty pitiful. The benefit of being the #1 overall pick.   The same people that hyped you will build you up so they don't get the proverbial "egg on face".

 

The big name quarterback made the Colts relevant in the past (Peyton), Irsay isn't going to stray from that business model. It's a business people. Winning games is secondary to making $$$. 

 

wth?!?!     What am I missing here?    What am I not understanding?

 

According to you,  Luck's career so far has been "pretty pitiful"...????      

 

ON WHICH PLANET??   IN WHICH PARALLEL UNIVERSE??

 

Was this supposed to sarcasm and I missed it??     I certainly hope so.....   because otherwise......

 

Holy Cow!!

 

(I look forward to your answer....   I think)

[Coffeedrinker]

Yes ... dumb mistake on my part .... but 3 times in one thread is my limit to owning up to it.

 

yeah, sorry about that.  By the time I read through the rest of the thread and saw where it had been mentioned it was too late for me to go back and edit.

[dw49]

yeah, sorry about that.  By the time I read through the rest of the thread and saw where it had been mentioned it was too late for me to go back and edit.

 

 

Don't worry about it . Stupid post by me .... I really did forget that Ditka coached the Saints. I guess too much watching those Saturday Night Live "da Bears" skits.

[Goodtimes]

The 2011 Colts had big problems. The roster was depleted, the coaching staff was inept, and biggest of all, there was no quarterback. Manning was not healthy, and no one -- not even him -- knew if he was ever going to play again. The mainstream thinking in the NFL at that time was to release him and draft Andrew Luck. And that's without consideration to the money issue, which just didn't make sense at the time. 

 

The Broncos gambled on him, but they didn't give him any guaranteed money. No signing bonus, and if he had showed up to camp unable to perform, they could have released or restructured his contract. And mainstream thinking still considered it a huge gamble, because no one -- not even Manning -- knew if he'd be able to perform at a high level.

 

Your post is revisionist history, at best. In March of 2012, it did NOT make sense to guarantee an additional $28m to Manning. As much as I wanted us to keep him (and you can go scour the archives, if you want, because I was one of those who argued about how we could make it work), it didn't make financial sense, nor did it make football sense. 

 

So you say. I do not believe one bit of that Manning was cleared to pay by doctors before the end of the season. Elway took no risk, he talked to doctors and Peyton was getting better and better every day before the Colts released him. The whole NFL was not on board with decision. Their former coach thought it was a no-brainer to resign Peyton. That horrible coaching staff went to a Super Bowl.... So, what I am saying is that it is not revisionist history. The owner lied to everyone about Peyton and kept leaking information that he had a "noodle arm" when Peyton was on a college campus throwing the ball with force and zip to Brandon Stokely and others. It made great sense if you wanted to see the Colts in the SB in the next five or six years.

Edited September 20, 2013 by Superman

[Superman]

So you say. I do not believe one bit of that Manning was cleared to pay by doctors before the end of the season. Elway took no risk, he talked to doctors and Peyton was getting better and better every day before the Colts released him. The whole NFL was not on board with decision. Their former coach thought it was a no-brainer to resign Peyton. That horrible coaching staff went to a Super Bowl.... So, what I am saying is that it is not revisionist history. The owner lied to everyone about Peyton and kept leaking information that he had a "noodle arm" when Peyton was on a college campus throwing the ball with force and zip to Brandon Stokely and others. It made great sense if you wanted to see the Colts in the SB in the next five or six years.

 

You don't believe anything that doesn't fit into your choice narrative. It's not surprising.

[Blueblazes]

so the question is in hindsight would u take russell wilson and all them picks ? for luck

It really is very interesting to play ''hindsight''. Go a step further and say we keep Peyton, take Russell Wilson in the 2nd rd plus have all those picks. Yes, I know this is hindsight, but still very interesting to think about.

[Goodtimes]

You don't believe anything that doesn't fit into your choice narrative. It's not surprising.

 

I don't believe what you are saying. I know it isn't true. Do you deny that Irsay leaked that Peyton had a noodle arm? Do you deny that the doctors cleared Peyton to play the last two weeks of that season (but that wouldn't have helped get Luck)? Do you deny that Brandon Stokely was working out with Peyton on a college campus and he told reporters that he saw the same old Peyton with zip on his passes? Perhaps you just an Irsay mouthpiece?

Edited September 20, 2013 by Superman

[Superman]

I don't believe what you are saying. I know it isn't true. Do you deny that Irsay leaked that Peyton had a noodle arm? Do you deny that the doctors cleared Peyton to play the last two weeks of that season (but that wouldn't have helped get Luck)? Do you deny that Brandon Stokely was working out with Peyton on a college campus and he told reporters that he saw the same old Peyton with zip on his passes? Perhaps you just an Irsay mouthpiece?

 

Whatever you say, fella. Enjoy the air up there.