Sidbury to IR

[open window]

Welcome Harvey and Rayford!

[PrincetonTiger]

The Cuts have begun

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Thought the same thing

[dw49]

The Cuts have begun

 

 

I wonder if he was cut or placed on IR. Doesn't make sense that he was placed on IR without a significant injury as he only signed a 1 year deal. If the Colts "simply " placed him on IR , then they would be responsible for his 715K salary and have no rights to him in 2014. So like I say , either he has a significant injury and the Colts are placing him on IR because it's the "right thing to do" or the report that he's been placed on IR is incorrect. I would think it would be a "cut or waive" with an injury settlement.

 

 

BTW... rotoworld is saying placed on IR. 

[PrincetonTiger]

I wonder if he was cut or placed on IR. Doesn't make sense that he was placed on IR without a significant injury as he only signed a 1 year deal. If the Colts "simply " placed him on IR , then they would be responsible for his 715K salary and have no rights to him in 2014. So like I say , either he has a significant injury and the Colts are placing him on IR because it's the "right thing to do" or the report that he's been placed on IR is incorrect. I would think it would be a "cut or waive" with an injury settlement.

He was placed on IR

 

What I meant was that this move will serve as one of the 15 needed cuts

[HtownColt]

I wonder if he was cut or placed on IR. Doesn't make sense that he was placed on IR without a significant injury as he only signed a 1 year deal. If the Colts "simply " placed him on IR , then they would be responsible for his 715K salary and have no rights to him in 2014. So like I say , either he has a significant injury and the Colts are placing him on IR because it's the "right thing to do" or the report that he's been placed on IR is incorrect. I would think it would be a "cut or waive" with an injury settlement.

BTW... rotoworld is saying placed on IR.

He had a shoulder injury that he went and got a second opinion on

[CS Colts Fan]

The team also placed OLB-Lawrence Sidbury on Injured Reserve

 

from colts.com... they also cut these we are at 78

 

The Indianapolis Colts today waived the following players: CB-Johnny Adams, CB-Allen Chapman, G-Danous Estenor, DT-Kellen Heard, P/K-Brandon McManus, RB-Davin Meggett, LB-C.O. Prime, C-Rick Schmeig and S-Ashante Williams. WR-Maurice Williams was waived with an injury settlement and CB-Teddy Williams was waived-injured.

[dw49]

He was placed on IR

 

What I meant was that this move will serve as one of the 15 needed cuts

 

 

 

Yea.. I knew what you meant . I'm just finding strange that it's being reported as a IR move and not an injury settlement as he is not under contract for 2014. Unless he has a significant injury and this was a matter of "doing the right thing ?" 

[TKnight24]

Yea.. I knew what you meant . I'm just finding strange that it's being reported as a IR move and not an injury settlement as he is not under contract for 2014. Unless he has a significant injury and this was a matter of "doing the right thing ?"

The 2nd opinion he got on his shoulder must've told him it was more serious than he thought

[dw49]

He had a shoulder injury that he went and got a second opinion on

 

 

Must be that the proper thing to do here was pay the man and not do an injury settlement waive type deal.

[Carlos Danger]

I was pulling for Teddy Williams, but he hasn't been healthy enough to make his mark. Hopefully next year (after we re-sign some key FAs and have another draft) we won't be looking at the bottom of the roster for CB help...

 

I 'd have to think that Sidbury's injury probably means that Rayford is a lock to make the final 53... I believe I had Harvey on my pre-TC roster prediction because he is versatile and has the ability to get to the QB. It'd be nice to have them both, but we are already stacked with good depth at both LB positions, IMO even if we lack a certain star quality.

[Superman]

I wonder if he was cut or placed on IR. Doesn't make sense that he was placed on IR without a significant injury as he only signed a 1 year deal. If the Colts "simply " placed him on IR , then they would be responsible for his 715K salary and have no rights to him in 2014. So like I say , either he has a significant injury and the Colts are placing him on IR because it's the "right thing to do" or the report that he's been placed on IR is incorrect. I would think it would be a "cut or waive" with an injury settlement.

 

 

BTW... rotoworld is saying placed on IR. 

 

Can't release him if he's hurt. Have to IR him then work out an injury settlement, just like we did with Brandon McKinney. So we won't have to pay his entire salary, and it won't all count against the cap.

[schwamm]

Mo Williams wasn't around for very long...

[NewColtsFan]

If they make an injury settlement and then cut him -- so be it.

 

But, personally,  I hope they saw enough to warrant keeping him.   I hope they decide that $715k against the cap is worth it to take another long look at him next year.    That perhaps they think they have a diamond in the rough that's worth developing. 

 

Guess we'll all find out in the next few days......

[Superman]

If they make an injury settlement and then cut him -- so be it.

 

But, personally,  I hope they saw enough to warrant keeping him.   I hope they decide that $715k against the cap is worth it to take another long look at him next year.    That perhaps they think they have a diamond in the rough that's worth developing. 

 

Guess we'll all find out in the next few days......

 

He'll still be a free agent after this season. If he's actually hurt enough to warrant being on IR, then the injury settlement saves the team a few dollars. Then we can sign him to a future/reserve contract after the season is over, if we want to take another look at him.

[dw49]

Can't release him if he's hurt. Have to IR him then work out an injury settlement, just like we did with Brandon McKinney. So we won't have to pay his entire salary, and it won't all count against the cap.

 

 

OK.. then first he's placed on IR , THEN... an injury settlement would be reached. I know you cant just release an injured player but I was confused that a settlement was not reached as he's in his last year of his contract. You have covered that .. thanks

[jamesie jr]

Rayford has pretty much got his roster spot locked now then.

[Leaf]

Don't forget that 1 player from IR can be activated per year. Maybe the shoulder injury will keep him out right about that length of time and this will save the Colts a roster spot while making the difficult final cut decisions.

[dw49]

Don't forget that 1 player from IR can be activated per year. Maybe the shoulder injury will keep him out right about that length of time and this will save the Colts a roster spot while making the difficult final cut decisions.

 

 

They have to designate the player that can come off the DL. Other words a team can't just activate one of the players they place on IR at a later date.

[Leaf]

They have to designate the player that can come off the DL. Other words a team can't just activate one of the players they place on IR at a later date.

Yes. They could designate Sidbury.

[Gavin]

Yes. They could designate Sidbury.

would not be allowed to come back until after week 8 though I believe

[dw49]

They would have to add him to he active roster and then designate him to be that player on September 4th. Or they could have designated him to be that player when they placed him on IR. So yes , technically he could end up to be that player , But I would say the odds are heavily against that happening. The way I read what is below is that the normal procedure is to place that player on IR and place the designation on him at that time. I think what this says at the end of the article is that in the event you placed a player on IR early in training camp or pre season and Sept 4th comes along and you have not done this , you can reconsider the previous move , activate a player and then put back on the IR with that designation.

 

 

 

NFL reporter Adam Caplin listed the specifics of the new league rules concerning IR and the trade deadlines the league and NFLPA agreed to Thursday.

The most important piece of information he reported concerns the definition of a "major injury." Per the rule, a player placed on IR with a major injury is eligible to return to the roster in-season. Major injury, as reported by Caplan, is defined as "an injury that renders the player unable to practice or play football for at least six weeks (42 calendar days) from the date of injury."

Another piece of new information pertains to official designation of the player, and the team's intention to possibly exercise this option. "Each team may reactivate only one player placed on Reserve/Injured after 4:00 p.m., New York time, on Tuesday, September 4. That player must be "designated for return" at the time the club places him on Reserve/Injured, and such designation shall appear on that day's Personnel Notice."

Essentially, that creates something of a "disabled list" for the NFL. Placing players on the disabled list in MLB means a player is off the roster for a certain time period (15 or 60 days), but will return, and the roster is automatically updated to include that player. In the NFL now, a player must be "designated for return," so there will be two different kinds of IR transactions.

In Steelers terms, FB/TE David Johnson tore his ACL in Pittsburgh's first preseason game. Proper rehabilitation for that takes a minimum of nine months, meaning he wouldn't be able to play this season. Johnson would have simply been placed on IR, whereas David DeCastro could be placed on IR and designated for return.

DeCastro would be eligible for a return to the roster, where Johnson would not.

One provision not released when our initial report ran was a team's ability to add one player they had previously placed this preseason on the IR back to their roster, thus giving them the opportunity to qualify for this rule.

This means, should the Steelers choose to do so, they could add Johnson back to the active roster, and, on Sept. 4, place him back on the IR, making him eligible to return later in the season.

The Steelers wouldn't do that, considering the severity of Johnson's injury, but he's the lone Steelers player on IR.

This rule does help a team like Green Bay and LB Desmond Bishop, who was placed on IR before today (hamstring), and could potentially be healthy enough to return this season. The Packers can now place him back on the roster, keep him there until Sept. 4, then choose to place him back on IR and designate him for return.

 

[Superman]

OK.. then first he's placed on IR , THEN... an injury settlement would be reached. I know you cant just release an injured player but I was confused that a settlement was not reached as he's in his last year of his contract. You have covered that .. thanks

Yeah you can save a roster spot while the settlement is worked on. That's critical at this time of the season.

[dw49]

Yeah you can save a roster spot while the settlement is worked on. That's critical at this time of the season.

 

 

Yes man of steel , that makes all the sense in the world. What I'm not sure of is "does Sidbury have the right to collect his whole salary if he;s just placed on IR with that injury." If so then why would he negotiate an injury settlement ? 

 

That said is it possible that Sidbury is not hurt that badly and the Colts could just waive him when he is a bit healthier ... thus saving any "settlement pay ?"  I think I answered my own question. The Colts do the IR.. then injury settlement to save the roster spot. Sidbury agrees to the above as he realizes he's not making the final 53 and the injury is as I said.. not a season ending one. 

 

That make sense ?

[dw49]

would not be allowed to come back until after week 8 though I believe

 I would say the odds of him being the designated IR player to return would be around zilch. You agree?

[Leaf]

 I would say the odds of him being the designated IR player to return would be around zilch. You agree?

Don't see why. specially if we keep only 4 OLBs. We used it on Seth "Turnstyle" Olsen last year

[Gavin]

 I would say the odds of him being the designated IR player to return would be around zilch. You agree?

highly unlikely it will happen but I think we wait till Tuesday to do anything with him just to see who else gets cut from other teams while talking with him about an injury settlement between now and then

[MR. Blueblood]

Don't see why. specially if we keep only 4 OLBs. We used it on Seth "Turnstyle" Olsen last year

The O-line was so pitiful last year that they were wanting to keep anybody that could help in any way, shape, or form.  Even if he was a "Turnstyle"

[dw49]

Don't see why. specially if we keep only 4 OLBs. We used it on Seth "Turnstyle" Olsen last year

 

 

That's a good point .. lol. But I don't think we had enough of a chance to realize how terrible Olsen was.

 

Sure anything is possible and if we don't get many more injuries , I guess he could be the guy. However considering not hearing anything good from training camp and the early DL , I would bet not . Especially since  Harvey could fill in outside too. Just my opinion that it's very doubtful he would be the guy. I'm pretty sure you will see an injury settlement shortly rather than him being reactivated and then designated with the special IR tag.  But ya... he's certainly as good or better a football player than Olsen.

[Jason_]

I would say the odds of him being the designated IR player to return would be around zilch. You agree?

No not at all. We'd have to look at who has been placed on ir when we get close to the deadline. I liked what I saw from sidbury in the bills game and would really liked to have seen how he could have continued to gel in our defense.

[Gavin]

No not at all. We'd have to look at who has been placed on ir when we get close to the deadline. I liked what I saw from sidbury in the bills game and would really liked to have seen how he could have continued to gel in our defense.

I dont believe he is eligible because believe the rule states that a player can only be taken off the IR if that player was placed on IR after 4:00 pm New York time on September 4th , Also at the time the player was put on the IR (Sidbury in this case) he must be designated for return

[dw49]

I dont believe he is eligible because believe the rule states that a player can only be taken off the IR if that player was placed on IR after 4:00 pm New York time on September 4th , Also at the time the player was put on the IR (Sidbury in this case) he must be designated for return

 

 

If your reading what I posted above , I think he could be made eligible. It's confusing but I read it to say that you can activate him on Sept 4th and then place on IR with the special tag enabling him to return later in the year. This was meant for just these situations. So IR a guy to make a spot and then find that he's the best guy to give that "tag" to. I could be wrong as I'm old and dont read all that great.

 

However .. I do think it's even more doubtful as I found this in Pagano's interview in Colts.com

 

 

 

"Lawrence Sidbury will get a second opinion on his shoulder.  Surgery is planned."

[lollygagger8]

Goodbye Sidbury, hellllloooooo Rayford!! 

[PrincetonTiger]

Sidbury like McKinney is a vested veteran so he must go to IR first before an injury settlement is reached

[Jason_]

If your reading what I posted above , I think he could be made eligible. It's confusing but I read it to say that you can activate him on Sept 4th and then place on IR with the special tag enabling him to return later in the year. This was meant for just these situations. So IR a guy to make a spot and then find that he's the best guy to give that "tag" to. I could be wrong as I'm old and dont read all that great.

 

However .. I do think it's even more doubtful as I found this in Pagano's interview in Colts.com

 

 

 

"Lawrence Sidbury will get a second opinion on his shoulder.  Surgery is planned."

 

After doing more research on how this whole thing works, I will agree that the likelihood that Sidbury is the one designated is very slim.  I misread your first post #22 and thought that Sept 4th was the deadline to designate the player.  I also thought it was earlier in the season last year when they designated Olsen but I rechecked and saw that it was early October.

 

If it had been the case that they would have had to mark a designated player in the beginning of September then I could see consideration given to designating Sidbury as the returnable player considering who else is on IR at this time.  However, I reread that post and did a little further research and now realize that it does not appear that there is any kind of deadline as to when that player has to be designated.  So based on that, then yes I do now agree that the odds of it being Sidbury designated as the returnable player is very slim.

[dw49]

After doing more research on how this whole thing works, I will agree that the likelihood that Sidbury is the one designated is very slim.  I misread your first post #22 and thought that Sept 4th was the deadline to designate the player.  I also thought it was earlier in the season last year when they designated Olsen but I rechecked and saw that it was early October.

 

If it had been the case that they would have had to mark a designated player in the beginning of September then I could see consideration given to designating Sidbury as the returnable player considering who else is on IR at this time.  However, I reread that post and did a little further research and now realize that it does not appear that there is any kind of deadline as to when that player has to be designated.  So based on that, then yes I do now agree that the odds of it being Sidbury designated as the returnable player is very slim.

 

 

The problem with someone like me making statements based on how guys played at training camp is I pretty much have to go by reports . I did that with some stuff I got off Stampede Blue and made a donkey out of myself with Chandler Harnish > M Hasslebeck topic. Seemed reasonable to me as I thought Harnish looked really good in 2012 but turned out to be absurd. 

 

Anyway , I read that Sidbury was having trouble fitting into Pagano's defense. That coupled with the fact that we appear pretty strong at LB , possible back surgery and poor training camp  , i thought it (the tag) was highly unlikely when added to what you have. But if there is no surgery , and he actually showed well in training camp , I could be all wet again. 

 

Later...

[jmac_48]

I would much rather to see the team save that "return from IR" spot for later just in case a key player gets injured and would be valuable for a divisional or playoff push. Much like the Ravens used that spot for Ray Lewis.

 

Now I sure don't want to see that happening to a key player for the Colts, but it is Football and injuries do happen.

 

Much better for use on a key player than for use on a marginal roster possibility.

[Superman]

Yes man of steel , that makes all the sense in the world. What I'm not sure of is "does Sidbury have the right to collect his whole salary if he;s just placed on IR with that injury." If so then why would he negotiate an injury settlement ? 

 

That said is it possible that Sidbury is not hurt that badly and the Colts could just waive him when he is a bit healthier ... thus saving any "settlement pay ?"  I think I answered my own question. The Colts do the IR.. then injury settlement to save the roster spot. Sidbury agrees to the above as he realizes he's not making the final 53 and the injury is as I said.. not a season ending one. 

 

That make sense ?

 

His salary is fully guaranteed as of Week 1, so the Colts wouldn't save any money in that scenario.

 

If they reach the injury settlement, they can actually resign him later on.

[Jason_]

The problem with someone like me making statements based on how guys played at training camp is I pretty much have to go by reports . I did that with some stuff I got off Stampede Blue and made a donkey out of myself with Chandler Harnish > M Hasslebeck topic. Seemed reasonable to me as I thought Harnish looked really good in 2012 but turned out to be absurd. 

 

Anyway , I read that Sidbury was having trouble fitting into Pagano's defense. That coupled with the fact that we appear pretty strong at LB , possible back surgery and poor training camp  , i thought it (the tag) was highly unlikely when added to what you have. But if there is no surgery , and he actually showed well in training camp , I could be all wet again. 

 

Later...

 

I haven't read anything like that, BUT I haven't really read anything unless it was posted in the day to day training camp threads that were posted here and I don't recall really seeing anything about Sidbury though it's entirely possible there were updates about him that I missed.  I simply liked what I was able to see from him in the Bill's game and would have liked to see him continue to work into the defense.  I also agree that we appear to be strong at OLB, but as they say, you can never have too many pass rushers.  I also like what I've seen from Rayford, but if push came to shove right now and we had to choose between he and Sidbury (assuming Sidbury were healthy) then personally I would choose the guy that's actually been playing in the NFL for the past few years over the guy who we found in the AFL.  

 

And just to clarify, I'm not down on Rayford at all.  Quite the opposite actually.  He seems to have a lot of potential and I hope he can turn into another great find by Grigson.  However, at this point he's just a guy who has spent the past few years in the Arena league because apparently no one felt he was worth giving a shot in the pro's.  Yeah he's had a great preseason, but a lot of guys show well in the preseason only to fizzle out when things turn real.  I hope that doesn't happen, I don't want it to happen but it's certainly a possibility.

 

Oh and one clarification on Sidbury..it's his shoulder, not his back, if I remember correctly.  

 

I would much rather to see the team save that "return from IR" spot for later just in case a key player gets injured and would be valuable for a divisional or playoff push. Much like the Ravens used that spot for Ray Lewis.

 

Now I sure don't want to see that happening to a key player for the Colts, but it is Football and injuries do happen.

 

Much better for use on a key player than for use on a marginal roster possibility.

 

I agree.  I initially thought Sidbury might be considered because I misread and thought that there was a deadline for when they could designate a player to be able to return from IR.  So basically if they had to choose between the guys who are on IR right now hoping that no key player goes down between now and what I thought was a deadline, then I would think it would probably come down to between Anderson, Hickman and Sidbury.  But yeah, I definitely agree that waiting is definitely better since there is no need to designate a player right away.

[dw49]

His salary is fully guaranteed as of Week 1, so the Colts wouldn't save any money in that scenario.

 

If they reach the injury settlement, they can actually resign him later on.

 

 

So what if Sidbury just said that he was not negotiating anything with the Colts. He's been placed on IR and nothing else is done. There was something in Colts.com that said surgery looked to be oncoming , thus Sidbury might feel his 2013 is no doubt over.What I'm having a hard time understanding is would Sidbury receive his 715K (2013 base salary) in full ? If the answer would be yes , why would he want to "work out " an injury settlement ? If he has a chance to get healthy and catch on with another team , I could see the benefit . Am I being a numbskull and missing something simple here ?