PFF Grades Colts starting lineup.

[Dustin]

 

 

Only gripe I have with the lineup is that I think Chapman will start over Franklin.

[CR91]

I think I speak for all colts in saying id be devastated if mcglynn was a starter

[Holden89]

I pretty much agree with everything. I won't be surprised if McGlynn starts for awhile. Only guy to replace him is Thornton, and he's a rookie. Time will tell, I suppose.

[Franklin County]

I hope some steps up at RG and beats McGlynn. Also feel the same way about Chapman over Franklin. And no mention of Fleener...

[MTC]

I agree with everything but Angerer is an average LB if it's not for his injuries.

[IndyColtScout]

I think Hilton Costanzo Redding & Freeman are all underrated by PFF

[Kyle]

I hope Ijalana as our RG.

[Kyle]

I agree with everything but Angerer is an average LB if it's not for his injuries.

BUT the injuries happened and his progression has been hindered.   From what he has done so far, he is a below average player, BUT he has not hit his ceiling yet and has the potential to become an above average LB (I hope).  

[Dustin]

I think Hilton Costanzo Redding & Freeman are all underrated by PFF

 

Just to explain their thinking:

 

Hilton- One of the best deep threats and YAC receivers in the league. But he's inconsistent and has very bad hands (highest drop rate in the league).

 

Redding- He played hurt a lot last year. Personally I'd him at average, but he's not really spectacular at anything so I can see their thinking here.

 

Costanzo- Very good in run blocking, but leaves a lot to be desired as a pass blocker. Bottom 15 in PBE (pass blocking efficiency).

 

Freeman- They have him graded as one of the best cover linebackers in the league, but he is only average as a run defender and in the rare times he does pass rush, he's not very good at it. 

 

I think that Redding and Freeman are underrated (Redding should be average and Freeman should be above average). But, I understand their grades.

[Smonroe]

 

 

Only gripe I have with the lineup is that I think Chapman will start over Franklin.

 

We'll rotate those guys so much it really won't matter who starts.  That's why "Starter" ratings aren't that important.  Every team will have major injuries to starters.  It's how good the next man up is that makes the difference.

[That Guy]

Who qualifies as a "Blue Chip" player?

[Dustin]

Who qualifies as a "Blue Chip" player?

 

An elite player. Probably top 7 at their position. They originally had Reggie as a blue chip player, but they changed it. And they said that Allen is on the fringe. 

[BOTT]

Not that they are right or wrong, but I don't take PFF all that seriously.

[Dustin]

Not that they are right or wrong, but I don't take PFF all that seriously.

 

Their grading system is inherently flawed. It's basically the equivalent of giving a thumbs up or thumbs down for a player on any given play.

 

But as far as their advanced metrics go (pressures, passses under pressure, pass thrown into coverage, ect....) I haven't found any site that's better. 

[Legend of Luck]

I hate things like this. Can you imagine what last years looked like? They probably had the whole team at average or below when all of the so-called "experts" said we would be lucky to even end the season with 5 wins.

 

Cory Redding as below average? Give me a break. Guys been in the league for years because he is a very good player.

 

Reggie Wayne put on the best single season receiving performance I've ever witnessed last year. From a statistical standpoint, sure, other players were better, but the type of catches he made, and the time in which he made them were unparalleled IMHO. Just watch the tape of his games against the Bears, Packers, Texans, and Lions. There is no-one more clutch. He is the definition of Blue Chip, and he should be a HOF'er. 

 

I agree with most of the rankings but Im just so done with all this preseason speculation. Im ready to get this season going so we can prove them all wrong again.

[Smonroe]

Not that they are right or wrong, but I don't take PFF all that seriously.

I find that opinions rarely win games, and unlike college football, rankings won't get you a playoff game. But I could be wrong judging by how important they are to people.

[FightLikeSin]

I don't see the downside to starting Thornton over McGlynn. If he comes in and does a poor job, he will have only done as bad as McGlynn's best performance.

[Superman]

Their grading system is inherently flawed. It's basically the equivalent of giving a thumbs up or thumbs down for a player on any given play.

 

But as far as their advanced metrics go (pressures, passses under pressure, pass thrown into coverage, ect....) I haven't found any site that's better. 

 

Their raw numbers are good, for the most part. But just like with anything, they don't tell the whole story. I like the insight PFF provides, but I don't take them as gospel. It's just more information, which is never a bad thing.

[Dr. T]

Wasn't Landry a pro-bowler last year?

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Thinks the grading is pretty close, I don't see McGlynn or Werner starting though!

[Dustin]

Wasn't Landry a pro-bowler last year?

 

Yeah.

[dw49]

I didn't know PFW was still in business. They stopped printing the weekly report and are pretty much hanging by a thread

[Superman]

I didn't know PFW was still in business. They stopped printing the weekly report and are pretty much hanging by a thread

 

PFF -- Pro Football Focus.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/

[coltsfanatic24]

Fleener,Chapman, and Thornton should be starting over Allen,Franklin, and Mcglynn.

[dw49]

PFF -- Pro Football Focus.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/

 

 

 

Ahhh pro football FOCUS .. not pro football weekly. I subscribed for years to the later and pretty sure on their last leg. Kinda sad how newspapers and magazines like this became obsolete

[Dustin]

Fleener,Chapman, and Thornton should be starting over Allen,Franklin, and Mcglynn.

Why would Fleener start over Allen? Allen was the starter the majority of last year and he's (as of now) the better player.

[BOTT]

Fleener,Chapman, and Thornton should be starting over Allen,Franklin, and Mcglynn.

If I had to guess fleener and Allen are going spend a lot of time of the field at the same time, so it really doesn't matter.

[Superman]

If I had to guess fleener and Allen are going spend a lot of time of the field at the same time, so it really doesn't matter.

 

Yup. I wish they would go two deep on these charts, especially at positions that get subbed frequently. 

[ColtStrong]

Pfffft. Start the season already.

[Jason_]

If I had to guess fleener and Allen are going spend a lot of time of the field at the same time, so it really doesn't matter.

 

Agreed.  Plus looking at last year's numbers according to nfl.com, Allen was listed as a starter for 16/16 games and Fleener was listed as a starter for 10/12 games.  In other words, both Allen and Fleener were listed as starters in 10 games last year and I wouldn't be surprised if they're both listed as starters for all 16 games this year provided they both stay healthy.

[Dudley Smith]

Fleener,Chapman, and Thornton should be starting over Allen,Franklin, and Mcglynn.

 

Allen was clearly better than Fleener last season in just about every way. That said, Fleener may be better when it is all said and done, especially playing in a system that is familiar to him.

 

In regards to the original list, I would move T.Y. Hilton and Jerrel Freeman up to the above average category, and I think a case could be made for Vontae Davis to be moved up to "High Quality." I am not completely sure if I would put Allen in the "high quality" category right now, but I definitely could see him there soon.

[Superman]

Allen was clearly better than Fleener last season in just about every way. That said, Fleener may be better when it is all said and done, especially playing in a system that is familiar to him.

 

In regards to the original list, I would move T.Y. Hilton and Jerrel Freeman up to the above average category, and I think a case could be made for Vontae Davis to be moved up to "High Quality." I am not completely sure if I would put Allen in the "high quality" category right now, but I definitely could see him there soon.

 

I agree, that's a pretty aggressive ranking for Allen at this point. I think Freeman should be above average, also. But Hilton's ranking I agree with, he had too many drops last year.

[Jason_]

I don't see how they could possibly rate Cory Redding as below average.

[Dustin]

I am not completely sure if I would put Allen in the "high quality" category right now, but I definitely could see him there soon.

 

I agree, that's a pretty aggressive ranking for Allen at this point.

 

PFF gives blocking and receiving the same weight.

 

Their explanation:

 

12. Dwayne Allen, 2012, IND: +19.1

Receiving: +4.9, Pass Blocking: +3.6, Run Blocking: +10.1, Penalties: +0.5

Quite the rookie year from Allen who only needed one season to show himself as one of the most complete tight ends in the NFL. His 521 receiving yards and three touchdowns may not have wowed, but his run blocking (which earned the third-highest grade of all tight ends) really did.

[BOTT]

I agree, that's a pretty aggressive ranking for Allen at this point. I think Freeman should be above average, also. But Hilton's ranking I agree with, he had too many drops last year.

I agree Hilton had too many drops, but PFF gave above average scores to guys like Domenik Hixon, Golden Tate, and Brandon Gibson

[Dudley Smith]

I agree, that's a pretty aggressive ranking for Allen at this point. I think Freeman should be above average, also. But Hilton's ranking I agree with, he had too many drops last year.

 

The drops were a problem, but Hilton has big-play potential every time he touches the ball; only a handful of players in the NFL can match his speed and quickness. I think that at the very least moves him into the "above average" category. Calling him "average" with his abilities, even at this stage where he is raw and has his share of drops, I think is a stretch. I simply don't think a player who can bust open a play at any moment can be labeled "average," even if they have some drops. However, I realize that this is using a certain formula that dictates what label the player will receive as opposed to the subjective eyeball test we fans use.

[Dudley Smith]

I agree Hilton had too many drops, but PFF gave above average scores to guys like Domenik Hixon, Golden Tate, and Brandon Gibson

 

I had to look up who Domenik Hixon was. I agree-- if these players are "above average" then Hilton most assuredly is.

[ColtsFanMikeC]

 

 

Only gripe I have with the lineup is that I think Chapman will start over Franklin.

 

 

Reggie Wayne is blue chip. 

 

Laron Landry and Antoine Bethea should both be high quality.  Vontae Davis should be high quality, and if we can get any sort of pass-rush this year and our starting safeties stay healthy, I think he will make a case for blue-chip by end of season.  I honestly think Vontae is a top 3-5 CB in this league, with an above-average pass-rush and healthy supporting cast, he might be better than that.

 

I tend to think Luck will be considered blue-chip by end of season. 

 

I imagine that McGlynn will be behind Ijalana or Thornton.  If Ijalana is healthy, I would not be surprised to see D. Thomas as a back-up by season's end, as I think Thornton and Ijalana have potential to be better than him -- regardless, if the 3 of them are healthy, I think that we will not have to see McGlynn take a snap all year.  I also will not be shocked to see Holmes unthrone Satele.

 

I tend to think that we will be using quite a bit of 2 TE sets, or sets with a FB, TE, and 2 WR's -- so, I'm not sure how they figure our top package will be 3 WR's (I think we'll be in that, a lot, too -- but with the emphasis on running game, I imagine we'll see a lot of 2 TE and TE/FB sets and probably quite a bit of power sets with 2-3 TE, 0-1 WR, a FB, and RB).  I think what they fail to incorporate into these ratings is that WR's are kind of different positions depending where they line up.  With DHB and Wayne on the outside, I think TY is definitely above-average as a slot WR and as a WR threat in general -- teams will have to respect DHB's size/speed, and obviously are going to respect Reggie.  With Allen or Fleener inside with TY, there is going to be mismatches in the middle of the field and TY, IMO, is as explosive a slot WR as there is in the NFL -- yes, people like Welker, Amendola, etc. may be better 'possession'-type slot WRs, but they can not take it to the house like TY can out of the slot.  However, put TY outside with a TE, FB, and Wayne on the other outside, and I would still say TY is nothing more than average, as the mismatches won't be as apparent.

 

I agree, we will see Chapman start over Franklin - but also agree with other posters on here that we will rotate our front line so much on D that it will not matter much who our starters are.  This is the deepest DL that I can remember -- I don't know that we have a true 'pass-rusher', but I think we are big enough that we can push the pocket and allow Mathis to come off the edge as an OLB and that based on our package, RJF and Redding can both wreck some havoc.  I would not bet on who the last few guys to make the roster on our DL are, but I expect Chapman, Redding, RJF, Franklin and Hughes to be our locks -- I think there is going to be a hell of a battle between Faoli, Nevis, Guy, McKinney, Tevaseu, and Matthews.  If I had to guess, I'd say Faoli, Nevis, and Tevaseu would round out the DL (8 DL, hmmm, is that too much at one spot?), but I will wait until the 2nd or 3rd preseason game before I feel comfortable with that.  Anyway, I would expect the winner of the Chapman, Franklin battle to see the most on-the-field time as our 'clogger' but I expect the rest of the guys to rotate and get pretty equal time on the field based on situation.

 

As far as LB is concerned, I agree with their rankings, but think we will rotate there, too.  It sounds like they are geared to let Mathis focus a lot more on hitting the QB this season -- so I won't be shocked to see Werner and Walden together on presumed rushing situations.  I think Freeman is going to be our only true '3-down' LB this year, and hope Angerer can come back and be healthy and maybe do the same -- otherwise, it looks like Conner could be our 'run-stopper', with Sheppard rotating in on passing downs.  Heck, I won't be shocked to see a LB corp at times that had Mathis, Walden, and Werner some how included to get after the passer.  Obviously, health is going to dictate some of our rotation schemes, but I expect us to see a whole lot of different groups of players on the field at any given time.

 

In some cases, I think that CB is a bit like WR -- depending where you are lined-up can mean a lot.  I think Vontae, Landry, and Bethea should all be high quality.  Bethea's play should improve with a stud SS next to him to allow him to get back to his old self and not picking up others slack.  As I said earlier, I think if we get a pass-rush and keep the safeties healthy, Vontae is on his way to becoming a blue-chip at the CB spot.   I am not totally sold on Toler, but right now as a 2nd CB I guess I would say between average and above-average -- I hope that changes and he becomes all-the-time 'above-average'.  Anyway, if Toler was our #1 CB, I would be very scared and I would rate him average or below average as a #1.  I was very pleased with Butler's play last year, I think he is average as a #2, below-average if he had to fill in as a #1, and definitely above-average as a nickel or dime back.   If healthy, and if we can pressure the QB a bit, I think the secondary may be the best unit on this year's Colts.  However, we lack depth here -- if Vontae goes down, I think you see Toler go from above-average to below average real quick, and the rest of the player's stats drop, too as they will have to compensate more to help their surrounding cast.  If we stay healthy, I think we see Davis, Landry, and Bethea in the probowl -- Landry is a true SS and Bethea is a true FS (IMO), and with them both on the field, we'll be able to get back to seeing the Bethea of a few years ago when he can kind of roam and focus on the pass game and not have to compensate for playing along side guys like Zbikowski, and we'll be able to see Landry stay a bit shallower and crush RBs and the poor souls that run intermediate crossing routes.

 

Lastly, RB -- I doubt Bradshaw starts the season as a starter -- and think we will rotate a bit here, too.  Ballard showed he can be an adequate every-down back but it will sure be nice to give him a rest every now and then to keep him healthy.  I think this is going to be a great year for Donnie Brown, as I think he comes in with his only expectation to be our change-of-pace back -- I think Brown is by far our receiving threat out of the backfield and with and improved line and a lead-blocker, Brown will have the opportunity to take it to the house a few times.  Brown has shown break-away speed in the past, but has had trouble holding up as an everydown back or if he is asked to pound for yardage.  I think the addition of some new OL, with reduction of Brown's role (last year, he started the season as the starter, this year he will start with a very limited role and will not be counted on for the 'tough yards'), and with us running sets with a FB, I think Brown will be able to avoid contact prior to the L.O.S. and if he can get into the secondary without getting touched, loook-out.  To me, that is where Brown's biggest trouble (I don't think he is alone, as any RB in the league would have the same problem) was, that he often times was being touched before reaching the line or right at the line of scrimmage -- people knock him for 'poor vision', but Brown is more of a speed-burner than a brick-*-house and his build doesn't really allow him to pound out the tough yards like a squattier Ballard, Bradshaw, Delone Carter can.  However, if he has a hole from an improved line and a FB to blow up the first person coming thru that hole, and isn't forced to fight just to get to the line of scrimmage, I think he's going to stay healthier and be a very pleasant surprise for many.  I hope Bradshaw comes back 100% and that he has fixed some fumble-itis problems that plagued him a bit in NY -- as I think the combo of him and Ballard is going to be a very solid 1-2 with Brown's big-play ability to come in and grab balls out of the back-field and go for the 'homerun' carries.

 

Finally, I think Pat McAffee is a blue-chip, Vinatieri is high quality, and hope that K-Will can prove to be a very solid KR for us (or whoever beats him out).  I am really disappointed in Lefeged and Brazill for their suspensions, as I expected them to be 2 of our best contributors on special teams, but am still optimistic that our ST can improve from last season, and think that it will be some of the ST battles that will determine who win out a lot of our 'depth' spots on offense and defense.

[Narcosys]

Thinks the grading is pretty close, I don't see McGlynn or Werner starting though!

 

A top 25 Draft Pick, and you dont think he will start?  Why?

[Superman]

A top 25 Draft Pick, and you dont think he will start?  Why?

 

I think we'll use multiple fronts, and in some games, Werner will be on the field for the first defensive snap of the game. Others, he won't be. And I think that goes for other so-called starters as well. 

 

That's why I think these charts should go two-deep. Or at least give a rating for the top 15 players on each unit, so you have your nickelback and pass rush specialists included, as well as your two backs and your slot receiver/second tight end.