The Truth about The West Coast Offense

[Black-Vell]

I feel that our "new offense" is being waaaay misunderstood & think we will do ourselves & our 1st year Offensive Coodinator a better service if we started off with a few thngs in proper perspective.  

 

Im seeing alot of comments expressing concern over the WCO. If you are someone with such concerns - allow me to apply my logic. First of all - how can someone have an issue with something that does not exist? 

 

Pep Hamilton comes to Indy from Stanford. Do you know Stanford is considered one of if not the toughest acedemic D1 schools in the country? Point is - there is not SEC talent flooding their roster. How many Stanford kids are in the NFL that are not OL or not on our team already? For this reason Stanford needed to run an offense that embodies the WCO. Ball control - good defense - heavy running game. A safe offense that can have the best chance for success with the least amount of top players.

 

That is why it featured 2 TE's - that was the talent that was available at a school known for acedemics. RGIII was going to go to Stanford if Luck didnt sign there - that may have altered the offense a bit. To think Pep is coming to an NFL team & is going to run the same offense he ran at Stanford is like thinking Chip Kelly is gonna run the inside/outside read option 98% of the time in PHI.

 

Basically - Pep is not coming to IND & changing our team to fit the WCO. He is running the WCO with whatever parts we have available. That WILL BE Pep's Offense. Right now - itt doesnt exist because he's never been here before.

 

Stanford has never had anything that IND has to attack a defense with. Not even Luck because now he is a 1 year pro. Look at our WR/TE core. I dont think ppl get it - everything they had success with in Stanford we have a major improvement on already. Our RBs may be ok with a better line and deeper receiving core - or just a year on the job. 

 

This feel long to me so imma end it and open it to up to the Fam.

[GoodLuck]

I heard Notre Dame is harder to get in than Stanford. At least for athletes. Is this true?

[In Luck We Trust]

I heard Notre Dame is harder to get in than Stanford. At least for athletes. Is this true?

it is harder for athletes and non athletes to get into Notre Dame. this past season marked the first time in college football history that the school was ranked number 1 in the country both in football and student athlete graduations. im not saying Stanford isn't hard to get into, because it still is hard. but if you wanna be completely accurate on something, it is harder to get into the service academies (Air Force, Army, Navy, even DIII Coast Guard <-- yes they have a college football team lol) because your SAT's and ACT's have to be near if not perfect score, a lot of community service, recommendation from the state senator or governor, no criminal record  4.0 GPA if not higher (with the advanced HS classes). but that is if you are willing to go the 2 yr military service time after you graduate. im sure there is more to it. 

 

im not taking anything away from Stanford, it is still a great school, beautiful campus, women are gorgeous lol and still hard to get into, but i wouldn't say it necessarily is the hardest school to get into.  

[chad72]

Hey, Mike McCarthy and Andy Reid all play variations of the same offense and their offenses are pass heavy too. Jim Harbaugh has the O-line to play it a different way. Even then, he used 2 or 3 big TEs to impose the will via the running game.

 

While the schemes for running plays might be similar to what we expect out of a west coast offense, the pass-to-run ratio will still be tailored to the modern NFL. All the AFC big horses - Pats, Ravens, Steelers, Texans have better run Ds than pass Ds. So, I'd rather adopt the McCarthy or Reid style than the Jim Harbaugh style at least till we have the horses on the O-line.

[Narcosys]

I heard Notre Dame is harder to get in than Stanford. At least for athletes. Is this true?

 

Out of that entire post....this is what you comment on  ...irrelevant.

[Balzer40]

Hey, Mike McCarthy and Andy Reid all play variations of the same offense and their offenses are pass heavy too. Jim Harbaugh has the O-line to play it a different way. Even then, he used 2 or 3 big TEs to impose the will via the running game.

 

While the schemes for running plays might be similar to what we expect out of a west coast offense, the pass-to-run ratio will still be tailored to the modern NFL. All the AFC big horses - Pats, Ravens, Steelers, Texans have better run Ds than pass Ds. So, I'd rather adopt the McCarthy or Reid style than the Jim Harbaugh style at least till we have the horses on the O-line.

 

 

 

I wouldn't want anything at all to do with the Andy Reid style. He is just way too pass happy and is one of the biggest reasons why Philly couldn't ever win a championship IMO. The real truth of our offense...is that none of us know exactly what our offense is going to entail. Pep said he like's a power run game, he said he'll adopt some of Arians plays, and he said it will be a variation of the WCO. This is really all we know till we see them play. 

[BrentMc11]

I heard Notre Dame is harder to get in than Stanford. At least for athletes. Is this true?

Off topic, but according to US World and News Report...Stanford for non-athletes....Notre Dame not mentioned.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/07/the-hardest-colleges-to-g_n_2087978.html#slide=1731082

[TKnight24]

I actually do expect Chip Kelly to run a lot of the trick plays that Oregon ran. Vick is the perfect fit for it along with shady McCoy.

Anyway, back to football...... I'm just interested in seeing how "similar" we'll look to Stanford's offense. I know we'll at least see a few plays that Stanford ran. Like that Y Banana thing everyone kept talking about. I'm sure that'll be called this year

[SLILLINGTON10]

it is harder for athletes and non athletes to get into Notre Dame. this past season marked the first time in college football history that the school was ranked number 1 in the country both in football and student athlete graduations. im not saying Stanford isn't hard to get into, because it still is hard. but if you wanna be completely accurate on something, it is harder to get into the service academies (Air Force, Army, Navy, even DIII Coast Guard <-- yes they have a college football team lol) because your SAT's and ACT's have to be near if not perfect score, a lot of community service, recommendation from the state senator or governor, no criminal record  4.0 GPA if not higher (with the advanced HS classes). but that is if you are willing to go the 2 yr military service time after you graduate. im sure there is more to it. 

 

im not taking anything away from Stanford, it is still a great school, beautiful campus, women are gorgeous lol and still hard to get into, but i wouldn't say it necessarily is the hardest school to get into.  

it's a 6 year commintment for non flyers and 8 years for pilots. i almost got in, except my congressmen sat on my paper work until past the deadline. so i just enlisted.

[GoodLuck]

Out of that entire post....this is what you comment on ...irrelevant.

It was more interesting to me than predicting Pep's offense. AGAIN

[NewColtsFan]

I heard Notre Dame is harder to get in than Stanford. At least for athletes. Is this true?

 

Not close.    Not remotely close.

 

Light years from reality.    Anyone who tells you otherwise is ill-informed.

[BOTT]

it is harder for athletes and non athletes to get into Notre Dame. this past season marked the first time in college football history that the school was ranked number 1 in the country both in football and student athlete graduations. im not saying Stanford isn't hard to get into, because it still is hard. but if you wanna be completely accurate on something, it is harder to get into the service academies (Air Force, Army, Navy, even DIII Coast Guard <-- yes they have a college football team lol) because your SAT's and ACT's have to be near if not perfect score, a lot of community service, recommendation from the state senator or governor, no criminal record  4.0 GPA if not higher (with the advanced HS classes). but that is if you are willing to go the 2 yr military service time after you graduate. im sure there is more to it. 

 

im not taking anything away from Stanford, it is still a great school, beautiful campus, women are gorgeous lol and still hard to get into, but i wouldn't say it necessarily is the hardest school to get into.  

Notre Dame doesn't compare to Stanford

[HtownColt]

Not close. Not remotely close.

Light years from reality. Anyone who tells you otherwise is ill-informed.

Can you elaborate why/how Stanford is harder to get into than Notre Dame? Im curious, I don't feel like doing the research and it seems like you know the answer

[SLILLINGTON10]

Can you elaborate why/how Stanford is harder to get into than Notre Dame? Im curious, I don't feel like doing the research and it seems like you know the answer

 Stanford is ranked as the 6th ranked College in the country. making it more desired and harder to get in.

 

 http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

[HtownColt]

Stanford is ranked as the 6th ranked College in the country. making it more desired and harder to get in.

http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/rankings/national-universities

This doesn't state any reasons why/how. It's just a ranking, it just shows there acceptance rate and there freshman retention rate. Doesn't tell me any student requirements or test score requirements validating its harder to get in to from this ranking

[AntonMcG]

it is harder for athletes and non athletes to get into Notre Dame. this past season marked the first time in college football history that the school was ranked number 1 in the country both in football and student athlete graduations. im not saying Stanford isn't hard to get into, because it still is hard. but if you wanna be completely accurate on something, it is harder to get into the service academies (Air Force, Army, Navy, even DIII Coast Guard <-- yes they have a college football team lol) because your SAT's and ACT's have to be near if not perfect score, a lot of community service, recommendation from the state senator or governor, no criminal record  4.0 GPA if not higher (with the advanced HS classes). but that is if you are willing to go the 2 yr military service time after you graduate. im sure there is more to it. 

 

im not taking anything away from Stanford, it is still a great school, beautiful campus, women are gorgeous lol and still hard to get into, but i wouldn't say it necessarily is the hardest school to get into.  

 

 

So how exactly is it harder for non-athletes to get into Notre Dame? You do realize student-athletes are still athletes, don't you?

 

Stanford is so much harder to get into than ND based on academics that it's laughable to even insinuate otherwise.

[TKnight24]

Can't wait to see this offense in action

[GoColtsGo5150]

it is harder for athletes and non athletes to get into Notre Dame. this past season marked the first time in college football history that the school was ranked number 1 in the country both in football and student athlete graduations. im not saying Stanford isn't hard to get into, because it still is hard. but if you wanna be completely accurate on something, it is harder to get into the service academies (Air Force, Army, Navy, even DIII Coast Guard <-- yes they have a college football team lol) because your SAT's and ACT's have to be near if not perfect score, a lot of community service, recommendation from the state senator or governor, no criminal record 4.0 GPA if not higher (with the advanced HS classes). but that is if you are willing to go the 2 yr military service time after you graduate. im sure there is more to it.

im not taking anything away from Stanford, it is still a great school, beautiful campus, women are gorgeous lol and still hard to get into, but i wouldn't say it necessarily is the hardest school to get into.

Well, after reading this, I certainly feel better about applying for stanford next year, although I'm sure it will be very hard to get into stanford on a full scholarship as an international student

[BrentMc11]

This doesn't state any reasons why/how. It's just a ranking, it just shows there acceptance rate and there freshman retention rate. Doesn't tell me any student requirements or test score requirements validating its harder to get in to from this ranking

I will look into it.  The Huffington Report is detailed on the subject in links related to the one I posted.

[AntonMcG]

This doesn't state any reasons why/how. It's just a ranking, it just shows there acceptance rate and there freshman retention rate. Doesn't tell me any student requirements or test score requirements validating its harder to get in to from this ranking

 

I could go to the bother of finding evidence or I could go down the much more logical route and tell you that Stanford is one of the most renowned and respected academic institutes in the world and both prospective under-grads and grad students would do unsavory things to get an offer. Notre Dame is a big sports college with pretty strong academics. They are not however in the same stratosphere.

[HtownColt]

I could go to the bother of finding evidence or I could go down the much more logical route and tell you that Stanford is one of the most renowned and respected academic institutes in the world and both prospective under-grads and grad students would do unsavory things to get an offer. Notre Dame is a big sports college with pretty strong academics. They are not however in the same stratosphere.

I know all that about the schools, I just wanted to see just in fact how far off away from each other in the realm of getting into(student requirement/test scores) that make the two not even "remotely close" as someone said. I already know Stanford has top 5 departments all over especially engineering fields, but that has nothing to do with getting into the institution. Now the education part of it once you get into the institution isn't even close, Stanford demolishes Notre Dame in that regard with there top 5 departments

[Balzer40]

I thought I read at one time, that after the Ivy league schools, that Stanford had the highest academic standards of all college's. Now, I haven't done the research so I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I'm pretty sure I heard that at one time.

[GoodLuck]

I made the point of saying "athletes," because I heard Stanford has lowered standards and made exceptions for many of their athletes. Now when I read this, they seemed to be insinuating that's how Richard Sherman got into Stanford. And a Notre Dame fan probably was the person saying it.

[AntonMcG]

I thought I read at one time, that after the Ivy league schools, that Stanford had the highest academic standards of all college's. Now, I haven't done the research so I don't know if that's accurate or not, but I'm pretty sure I heard that at one time.

 

It's higher than most of the Ivy Leagues as well.

[Balzer40]

It's higher than most of the Ivy Leagues as well.

 

 

Wow, didn't know that. Just goes to show how smart some of our players are.

[AntonMcG]

I know all that about the schools, I just wanted to see just in fact how far off away from each other in the realm of getting into(student requirement/test scores) that make the two not even "remotely close" as someone said. I already know Stanford has top 5 departments all over especially engineering fields, but that has nothing to do with getting into the institution. Now the education part of it once you get into the institution isn't even close, Stanford demolishes Notre Dame in that regard with there top 5 departments

 

It has everything to do with getting into the institution. It comes down to repute. It attracts the best students and many who meet the entry requirements will still not get in due to the huge level of competition. Universities need to meet their quotas each year, some institutes will raise or lower their requirements based on this but over the years they have probably mastered the art of knowing where the bar is to ensure they get the best they can.

 

I'm sure we both could find facts and statistics to back this up but I think that is a pointless endeavor .

[HtownColt]

It has everything to do with getting into the institution. It comes down to repute. It attracts the best students and many who meet the entry requirements will still not get in due to the huge level of competition. Universities need to meet their quotas each year, some institutes will raise or lower their requirements based on this but over the years they have probably mastered the art of knowing where the bar is to ensure they get the best they can.

I'm sure we both could find facts and statistics to back this up but I think that is a pointless endeavor .

I really can care less about anything Stanford and Notre Dame. Now back to football....The state of Texas breeds the best football players

[GoodLuck]

I really can care less about anything Stanford and Notre Dame. Now back to football....The state of Texas breeds the best football players

Florida

[AntonMcG]

Just in case anyone is interested, The Times, a very reputable UK newspaper, do a very detail ranking every year of Universities world wide. There are a lot of different factors at play such as funding, avg. salary of graduates, research, innovation etc etc etc. but it is still pretty interesting.

 

This years rankings have Stanford at #3 worldwide but not even #1 in the state.

 

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/world-university-rankings/2012-13/world-ranking

 

Keep in mind, it is often thought that the reason for the US schools always dominating these types of rankings is down to the huge amount of funding they get. In no other country do Alumni contribute financially to their schools to the level of the US.

[SLILLINGTON10]

This doesn't state any reasons why/how. It's just a ranking, it just shows there acceptance rate and there freshman retention rate. Doesn't tell me any student requirements or test score requirements validating its harder to get in to from this ranking

SAT 25th / 75th Percentile:

Stanford SAT score average; critical reading: 680/780, math: 700/790, writing:700/780

ND SAT score average; critical reading: 660/750, math: 660/780, writing -/-

 

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/Stanford_profil.htm

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/notre-dame.htm

[HtownColt]

Florida

Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, RGIII, Adrian Peterson, Jerrell Freeman, Earl Thomas, Michael Crabtree, Charles Tillman, Henry Melton, Andy Dalton, Fred Jackson, Michael Bennett, Darryl Washington, Quientin Jammer,Louis Vasquez, Cory Redding,Dez Bryant,Von Miller, Chris Houston, Mathew Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Nick Foles,Jermichael Finley, Donald Driver,Phil Dawson, Josh Scobee, Eric Winston, Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson,Aqib Talib, Shane Lechler,Danny Amendola, Michael Brockers,Brian Orakpo, Trent Williams,Red Bryant, Matt Flynn, Emmanuel Sanders, Casey Hampton, Daniel Manning, Wade Smith,Kendall Wright, Cedric Griffin, Michael Griffin, Michael Huff. Jerry Hughes

Texas football players are the best

There is more just named some

http://www.maxpreps.com/m/article.aspx?articleid=2b045811-bf0a-4f85-b49f-6223e6a711b2

[NewColtsFan]

Can you elaborate why/how Stanford is harder to get into than Notre Dame? Im curious, I don't feel like doing the research and it seems like you know the answer

 

 

It's a long list,  but there's a list.     First, I don't want to downplay how hard it is to get into ND...  it is.    It's just not as hard as Stanford.

 

Stanford is the only D-1a school (other than the service academies)  where you have to apply and be accepted.    And there's no rubber stamp.   We get great kids turned down all the time by the school.   Those kids wind up at other very good schools like Notre Dame,  Northwestern,  Vanderbilt and Duke.    And they go to football factors like Michigan and Ohio State and Texas and LSU and the Florida schools.

 

Here's the gauntlet you have to run to get into Stanford.

 

1.  GPA.   If you want to feel 'safe' as a recruit it had better be 3.5 or better.  You can get in with lower,  but you're not safe.

 

2.  SAT/ACT    Roughly 1650 on the SAT and 25 on the ACT.   There are several exceptions, but again,  you're not safe if you're below.

 

3.  Transcript.   What classes are you taking?   Are you taking AP/Honors courses?   Or, are your A's in just the basic regular classes?   If you're not pushing yourself to take hard classes, your chances are small.

 

4.  Class rank.    Clearly the higher the better,  especially at the better high schools.

 

5.  Essays.     Everyone writes them to get in.   At least three.   And recruits have lost out with bad essays.

 

6.  Teacher/Counselor recommendations.    Required.   And they often trip up a recruit.

 

7.  Outside service.   What else have you done?    You're a good football player and a very good student -- fine.  What else?   Any clubs at school.   Charity outside of school.   Something unique?

 

8.  Any problems, good or bad,  to overcome? 

 

9.  Coaches have no 'freebees' or 'automatic passes'    None.   The coach can tell admissions "this kid is the #1 QB in the country and it will have little effect.    Every recruit has to be admitted to school.    Neither the coach, nor the AD can go to the administration and ask for special favors.   Doesn't happen.    

 

 

I'm confident I'm forgetting somethings....  it's been a long time since I wrote out this list....   but this is a good primer....

 

If you have questions or comments,  please feel free to ask....    I know this bores some people, I'll do my best to keep it short...

[AntonMcG]

Drew Brees, Andrew Luck, RGIII, Adrian Peterson, Jerrell Freeman, Earl Thomas, Michael Crabtree, Charles Tillman, Henry Melton, Andy Dalton, Fred Jackson, Michael Bennett, Darryl Washington, Quientin Jammer,Louis Vasquez, Cory Redding,Dez Bryant,Von Miller, Chris Houston, Mathew Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Nick Foles,Jermichael Finley, Donald Driver,Phil Dawson, Josh Scobee, Eric Winston, Jamaal Charles, Derrick Johnson,Aqib Talib, Shane Lechler,Danny Amendola, Michael Brockers,Brian Orakpo, Trent Williams,Red Bryant, Matt Flynn, Emmanuel Sanders, Casey Hampton, Daniel Manning, Wade Smith,Kendall Wright, Cedric Griffin, Michael Griffin, Michael Huff. Jerry Hughes

Texas football players are the best

There is more just named some

http://www.maxpreps.com/m/article.aspx?articleid=2b045811-bf0a-4f85-b49f-6223e6a711b2

 

And Brian Smash Williams

[Black-Vell]

I apologize for creating a thread where the trivial parts are more interesting than the points about the team. Ill look at it as a learning experience & try to get better.

[Mouthfire]

Can you elaborate why/how Stanford is harder to get into than Notre Dame? Im curious, I don't feel like doing the research and it seems like you know the answer

 

Academically, Stanford >>>> Notre Dame. 

 

Stanford is an Ivy League equivalent.  It gets mentioned in the same breath as Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, etc etc.  Notre Dame, not so much.

 

Not that ND isn't a good school, but it's not even close.

[HtownColt]

Academically, Stanford >>>> Notre Dame.

Stanford is an Ivy League equivalent. It gets mentioned in the same breath as Harvard, Princeton, Columbia, etc etc. Notre Dame, not so much.

Not that ND isn't a good school, but it's not even close.

Everybody knows that, but we wasn't talking about academically we were talking about acceptance/getting in

[NewColtsFan]

I made the point of saying "athletes," because I heard Stanford has lowered standards and made exceptions for many of their athletes. Now when I read this, they seemed to be insinuating that's how Richard Sherman got into Stanford. And a Notre Dame fan probably was the person saying it.

 

Yes....  Stanford has somewhat lower Stanford for some athletes....   but that's a relative term.

 

ALL SCHOOLS have lower standards for their athletes...     But Stanford's lower standards are still higher than anyone else's, except the service academies....    No one else is close.

[HtownColt]

Just want to see Brazill on the field more

[Malakai432]

Keep in mind, it is often thought that the reason for the US schools always dominating these types of rankings is down to the huge amount of funding they get. In no other country do Alumni contribute financially to their schools to the level of the US.

Definitely, but on the down side the US has the highest amount of student loan debt also. Should be well over a trillion by now according to the NY times.

[MikeVander]

Just to point a few things out.. 

 

Someone posted about Standford having a 7% acceptance rate or whatever. I think it's important to remember this is California we're talking about. A ton of people can apply with no chance. Not sure how this even matters. Difficulty of getting in is a moot point considering schools will do what they need to to get a top athlete in, furthermore, no matter how many times I apply to all womens colleges I haven't been accepted. Very difficult! And most places require a written aspect of the application, so there's a good get-around if needed. 

 

More important for athletes is the program, the academic difficulty really doesn't matter, exceptions get made. If a student is really dumb, a team wouldn't want them anyways if they can't figure out how plays work, so there is a floor. But Standford has shown it has a good football team, and if you can go there why wouldn't you? In fact, I feel as though Standford's academic prowess helps attract students. Some players aren't going to make it to the NFL, but if their degree in communications will be better than one from a less prominent institution. Duke basketball is a perfect example of program > requirements.

 

The idea of an academic student is just silly anyways, Manziel apparently only "takes" online classes... which basically means we have no idea who is behind that computer screen.