Never Thought I Would Say This...

[presto123]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point. I can already tell the Colts have virtually no shot at a playoff birth even with some improvement. I won't be actually rooting against them but I won't mind if they lose as many games as possible if it accomplishes two things I want this year. That we will win the Luck sweepstakes and that we will get an entire new coach and coaching staff which will hopefully lead to a whole new defensive philosophy. I don't expect Manning back this year at all but if those couple of things happen next year this won't totally be a wasted season. Go ahead and slam me but I think losing a lot is the only way we are going to get rid of the current coaching staff so every loss puts us closer to that possibility IMO.

[Andy]

Don't give up. If you would like to see the Colts lose, then what kind of fan are you, and all the other Colts fans who want to see their favourite team lose. Keep hoping.

[Smitto]

This thread is ridiculous,why would you rather your team to lose? :slaphead: the colts are 0-2 not 0-8

[presto123]

Don't give up. If you would like to see the Colts lose, then what kind of fan are you, and all the other Colts fans who want to see their favourite team lose. Keep hoping.

It's all about the future at this point. Even if Manning returns his time will be limited. If we can get our future QB and ditch Caldwell(whom I didn't like from day 1) then it will be better than winning 5-6 games this season and missing the playoofs is all I'm saying. Doesn't make me less of a fan to be concerned about the long term aspects of how this team is made up.

[oldunclemark]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point. I can already tell the Colts have virtually no shot at a playoff birth even with some improvement. I won't be actually rooting against them but I won't mind if they lose as many games as possible if it accomplishes two things I want this year. That we will win the Luck sweepstakes and that we will get an entire new coach and coaching staff which will hopefully lead to a whole new defensive philosophy. I don't expect Manning back this year at all but if those couple of things happen next year this won't totally be a wasted season. Go ahead and slam me but I think losing a lot is the only way we are going to get rid of the current coaching staff so every loss puts us closer to that possibility IMO.

That's risky

what if Andrew Luck is Vince Young?

...and how will we gain if Manning returns for 4 more years...

The Andrew Luck thing hasnt been thought through very well..

..why would he want to sit four years behind Manning?

[Coltsman1788]

This thread is ridiculous,why would you rather your team to lose? :slaphead: the colts are 0-2 not 0-8

But you can't be 0-8 unless you are 0-2 first. Give it time. lol

[Coltsman1788]

That's risky

what if Andrew Luck is Vince Young?

...and how will we gain if Manning returns for 4 more years...

The Andrew Luck thing hasnt been thought through very well..

..why would he want to sit four years behind Manning?

None of us really know at this point just how many years if any Manning has left right now. Luck or whoever our next quarterback ends up being may not have to sit as long as you think.

No one really wants the Colts to tank games to get the pick but some believe that they are just that bad enough this year to earn it based on merit.

[Balzer40]

That's risky

what if Andrew Luck is Vince Young?

...and how will we gain if Manning returns for 4 more years...

The Andrew Luck thing hasnt been thought through very well..

..why would he want to sit four years behind Manning?

I can guarantee you Luck is NOT Vince Young. Luck is a very skilled QB that is incredibly smart and lives in the film room just like Manning did. Does that guarantee he'll be a great? No, but I assure you he will be nothing like VY.

[oldunclemark]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point. I can already tell the Colts have virtually no shot at a playoff birth even with some improvement. I won't be actually rooting against them but I won't mind if they lose as many games as possible if it accomplishes two things I want this year. That we will win the Luck sweepstakes and that we will get an entire new coach and coaching staff which will hopefully lead to a whole new defensive philosophy. I don't expect Manning back this year at all but if those couple of things happen next year this won't totally be a wasted season. Go ahead and slam me but I think losing a lot is the only way we are going to get rid of the current coaching staff so every loss puts us closer to that possibility IMO.

If we can get to 1-3...we actually do have a shot by winning the remaining 5 Division games, beating Carolina, Kansas City, Carolina,

..also we need a win at Baltimore (1-1) on Dec. 11..

We'd need Manning to get that last one..but that gives us 10-6 and the tie-breaker against Houston.

(Yeah, I know it seems a long shot right now) Dont give up yet.

[oldunclemark]

I can guarantee you Luck is NOT Vince Young. Luck is a very skilled QB that is incredibly smart and lives in the film room just like Manning did. Does that guarantee he'll be a great? No, but I assure you he will be nothing like VY.

You cannot guarantee me that..

Who was the higher rated QB over Manning when he came out..?

and what happened to that guy.

I wouldnt tank games for any reason..much less to get an unproven college player..

[John Dee]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point. I can already tell the Colts have virtually no shot at a playoff birth even with some improvement. I won't be actually rooting against them but I won't mind if they lose as many games as possible if it accomplishes two things I want this year. That we will win the Luck sweepstakes and that we will get an entire new coach and coaching staff which will hopefully lead to a whole new defensive philosophy. I don't expect Manning back this year at all but if those couple of things happen next year this won't totally be a wasted season. Go ahead and slam me but I think losing a lot is the only way we are going to get rid of the current coaching staff so every loss puts us closer to that possibility IMO.

This is a horrific scenario IMO. I do not want he Colts to be looking at Andrew Luck and then pick him and have to watch him sit on the bench for the next few years.

If Indy lands the top pick I say trade it. Luck will command a "HUGE" price and Indy could help itself in the short term by leaps and bounds.

[oldunclemark]

This is a horrific scenario IMO. I do not want he Colts to be looking at Andrew Luck and then pick him and have to watch him sit on the bench for the next few years.

If Indy lands the top pick I say trade it. Luck will command a "HUGE" price and Indy could help itself in the short term by leaps and bounds.

How about if we make the playoffs and draft the Boise State QB...instead.

[Balzer40]

You cannot guarantee me that..

Who was the higher rated QB over Manning when he came out..?

and what happened to that guy.

I wouldnt tank games for any reason..much less to get an unproven college player..

Im not at all suggesting tanking games, I was only responding to your Luck comment and yes, I feel very comfortable guaranteeing you or anybody else that he WILL NOT BE VY. Manning was the higher rated guy coming out of college. Their were a few people/teams that thought Leaf had a higher ceiling and that was media driven.

[Andy]

It's all about the future at this point. Even if Manning returns his time will be limited. If we can get our future QB and ditch Caldwell(whom I didn't like from day 1) then it will be better than winning 5-6 games this season and missing the playoofs is all I'm saying. Doesn't make me less of a fan to be concerned about the long term aspects of how this team is made up.

Let me put it this way... YOU WANT YOUR TEAM TO LOSE, and you're saying that it's for the future. wth?? If you want your team to lose, that doesn't make you a good fan, and don't use the future as an excuse, because that's just pathetic. You always hope for your team to win, and not lose. You can't hope for them to lose, so you could get one player in next years draft. Plus, Mathis said they're not tanking, and why would they. They get paid millions of dollars, and you want them to tank the rest of the games. I'm sorry, but my respect for you went way down...

[John Dee]

How about if we make the playoffs and draft the Boise State QB...instead.

This team in NOT going to the playoffs. Unless several things change real quick.

Is Caldwell the man to make it happen? I don't see it.

[oldunclemark]

Im not at all suggesting tanking games, I was only responding to your Luck comment and yes, I feel very comfortable guaranteeing you or anybody else that he WILL NOT BE VY. Manning was the higher rated guy coming out of college. Their were a few people/teams that thought Leaf had a higher ceiling and that was media driven.

I'm not sure you can predict the future with college players....is my point

I dont know these boys personally

....How do you know Luck will be a better pro than Boise State's Kellen Moore...for example...

Isnt it premature to start talking about the draft...2 weeks into the season.?

What if we beat the Steelers next week!!! (Yeah, I know how that sounds right now)

[oldunclemark]

This team in NOT going to the playoffs. Unless several things change real quick.

Is Caldwell the man to make it happen? I don't see it.

Cabn you really tell me who will and who wont make the playoffs right now..

Is Washington (2-0) a playoff team?

Houston?

Dallas?

are you sure/?

Dont quit yet...There's plenty of time to give up in Decemebr

[Smitto]

But you can't be 0-8 unless you are 0-2 first. Give it time. lol

The could still turn things around lol this thread would be valid then.

[ruksak]

I'm too proud to root for us to lose. Even at 0-15, I can't say I'd root for them to lose.

[Balzer40]

I'm not sure you can predict the future with college players....is my point

I dont know these boys personally

....How do you know Luck will be a better pro than Boise State's Kellen Moore...for example...

Isnt it premature to start talking about the draft...2 weeks into the season.?

What if we beat the Steelers next week!!! (Yeah, I know how that sounds right now)

I actually really like Kellen Moore. My only concern with him is that he is pretty short for a pro QB. Same height as Drew Brees, but sometimes short QB's have to alter their throwing style. I think he will be ok though. The reason why im so high on Luck is, not only his talent level, but the fact that he loves studying film and has a drive to always improve on his mistakes. Sounds just like Manning to me.

I will take a cerebral QB over a more physically gifted athlete anyday of the week.

[MAC]

Don't give up. If you would like to see the Colts lose, then what kind of fan are you, and all the other Colts fans who want to see their favourite team lose. Keep hoping.

I suggest that it's a little bit more complicated than that.

I will admit that for most of 1997 I was openly enthusiastic about the prospect of the Colts being able to draft Peyton. I didn't actively root for them to lose, I just let go of the pain associated with each inevitable loss to focus on the bright side. The goal of the game is to make the playoffs and try for the Super Bowl. After Bert Jones' injury, and the Schlichter, Elway and George debacles, I was more than ready to accept one more bad year (out of so many) in exchange for a franchise QB. Manning was clearly special, and just like with Luck it was accepted that he would be the #1 pick a LONG time before the draft.

HOWEVER, this ISN'T 1997. I have no desire to see the older stars go through that kind of psychological torment. I have no desire for the young players to become comfortable losing. We are poised to compete the moment Peyton is ready, and destroying everyone's confidence isn't going to help anything. I will be pulling ardently for them every game. I'd want nothing to stand in the way of Peyton having several more shots at leading us to the Super Bowl.

HOWEVER, if they were to announce tomorrow that Peyton is retiring than all bets are off. We would instantly be in rebuilding mode, and the primary concern would be acquiring another franchise QB. Whatever the FO has to do to accomplish that goal and get back on the winning track as quickly as possible would be fine with me.

[presto123]

Let me put it this way... YOU WANT YOUR TEAM TO LOSE, and you're saying that it's for the future. wth?? If you want your team to lose, that doesn't make you a good fan, and don't use the future as an excuse, because that's just pathetic. You always hope for your team to win, and not lose. You can't hope for them to lose, so you could get one player in next years draft. Plus, Mathis said they're not tanking, and why would they. They get paid millions of dollars, and you want them to tank the rest of the games. I'm sorry, but my respect for you went way down...

I never said I want them to tank.They are professionals in no way do I think they will tank nor should they. I was just saying it won't bother me quite as much if we lose a lot this season if we accomplish a lot for the years coming. You don't have to agree with me but like I said I'm not rooting Against them so no I'm not Wanting the team to lose.

[oldunclemark]

I actually really like Kellen Moore. My only concern with him is that he is pretty short for a pro QB. Same height as Drew Brees, but sometimes short QB's have to alter their throwing style. I think he will be ok though. The reason why im so high on Luck is, not only his talent level, but the fact that he loves studying film and has a drive to always improve on his mistakes. Sounds just like Manning to me.

I will take a cerebral QB over a more physically gifted athlete anyday of the week.

I've wondered about that..too..

..I an NOT a Boise State fan..I think they want credit for beating chumps..

but watching Moore...he has just a tremendous feel for the game...

He sees all his receivers...He plays well in bad weather... and he might be able to grasp our offense...plus I think he might be willing to site behind Manning until the time comes..

....He is gifted..but because of his height..as you say...he might not go in the draft until the middle of the 1st round..

[luvdacolts67]

This thread is ridiculous,why would you rather your team to lose? :slaphead: the colts are 0-2 not 0-8

I hate to say it but even with Manning, this team stinks. Who do you think they can beat? We just got our butts handed to us by the Browns, how low does it get? I dont see 2 games we can win. Its not a ridiculous thread. I dont want to see us lose but the fact is, we arnt going to win and we had better start with a great draft pick to begin rebuilding this team. Its going to take Irsay having some guts and dumping Calwell and find someone with some vision. Tired of people telling other people how they should feel. We are ticked, especially those of us who have been saying we have problems for a long time now.

[MCurtis32]

Don't worry homies, The team will loose all the games with out any help from the coaching staff or the players. Short term thinking is what got this team where it is at today.

[Moose Of Woe]

This thread is ridiculous,why would you rather your team to lose? :slaphead: the colts are 0-2 not 0-8

Not for another six games.

[doogansquest]

I can guarantee you Luck is NOT Vince Young. Luck is a very skilled QB that is incredibly smart and lives in the film room just like Manning did. Does that guarantee he'll be a great? No, but I assure you he will be nothing like VY.

You...actually can't guarantee that.

From a play style standpoint, sure, Luck isn't Vince Young. But Vince Young won a National Championship against the far more talented and heavily favored USC Trojans. Luck will never sniff an NC, and probably won't ever win his own conference.

He's the most NFL ready QB in this class, as of right now, but so wer Danny Wuerffel, Ken Dorsey, and Matt Leinart.

If you think he's the only one working that hard, you are mistaken.

Our problems lie with a QB getting comfortable in this system who isn't Peyton Manning. Painter hasn't shown the ability to do anything, despite spending years in the system. Collins has had flashes, but is only a few weeks in. Our running game has certainly improved, but we're definitely not running it enough.

Special Teams coverage units, and portions of our defense, are still the biggest areas of concern. I would much rather take the best player available for one of those two areas, or even an OG (though one could probably be had in a later round), than go for Luck.

We also have big Free Agency concerns next season, as numerous key players will be at the end of their contracts, as well as all of the 1-year tenders we signed.

We have far larger fish to fry than hoping to bank on the Luck sweepstakes. That's not going to fill an immediate and pressing need.

Besides, what if Manning does come back? Then what? We bet the farm on a guy who's playing 4 years from now, while not better equipping Manning for a memorable ride into the sunset?

All of the Luck talk is ridiculous.

If we don't have to give up anything to get him, and no other teams without a need are offering us ridiculous amounts of players/picks to get the #1 spot, then I'd consider it.

[John Dee]

Cabn you really tell me who will and who wont make the playoffs right now..

Is Washington (2-0) a playoff team?

Houston?

Dallas?

are you sure/?

Dont quit yet...There's plenty of time to give up in Decemebr

The Browns were favored over the Colts today at home........ and they COVERED. This team is not good.

[Jason_]

That's risky

what if Andrew Luck is Vince Young?

...and how will we gain if Manning returns for 4 more years...

The Andrew Luck thing hasnt been thought through very well..

..why would he want to sit four years behind Manning?

THANK YOU! I see no point in drafting a future franchise QB at this point. Not only the fact that they'd be sitting for 2-4 years if Manning is able to come back. Fortunately, we should have a very good idea on Manning's future by the time next year's draft comes around. If they're confident he can and will play for 4 more years then I see no point in drafting the franchise QB now. Aside from the fact he'd be sitting that long (and Manning once said he felt starting right away helped him become a better QB...unfortunately don't have a link to the quote so feel free to not believe me) but we'd also be paying a lot more money than we're used to for a #2 QB. That's money that could be spent on helping to improve other areas of need to give us a better chance of winning while Manning is still here.

I'll even give you a reason not to draft a franchise QB in the first round even if Manning doesn't come back. I think most of us can agree that, while we've had a lot of success the past decade, we could have had even more with a better defense. Our current defense is improving, there's no doubt about that but with 1 or 2 more key pieces (primarily depth and or upgrade at NT and a #1 CB) and a slight change in philosophy (no more tampa 2 on 1st/2nd down) then our defense actually becomes formidable imo.

I'll even give you an argument

This is a horrific scenario IMO. I do not want he Colts to be looking at Andrew Luck and then pick him and have to watch him sit on the bench for the next few years.

If Indy lands the top pick I say trade it. Luck will command a "HUGE" price and Indy could help itself in the short term by leaps and bounds.

I could not agree more. We could get so many additional draft picks from someone looking to trade up for Luck if he were still on the board when we draft.

[Balzer40]

You...actually can't guarantee that.

From a play style standpoint, sure, Luck isn't Vince Young. But Vince Young won a National Championship against the far more talented and heavily favored USC Trojans. Luck will never sniff an NC, and probably won't ever win his own conference.

He's the most NFL ready QB in this class, as of right now, but so wer Danny Wuerffel, Ken Dorsey, and Matt Leinart.

If you think he's the only one working that hard, you are mistaken.

Our problems lie with a QB getting comfortable in this system who isn't Peyton Manning. Painter hasn't shown the ability to do anything, despite spending years in the system. Collins has had flashes, but is only a few weeks in. Our running game has certainly improved, but we're definitely not running it enough.

Special Teams coverage units, and portions of our defense, are still the biggest areas of concern. I would much rather take the best player available for one of those two areas, or even an OG (though one could probably be had in a later round), than go for Luck.

We also have big Free Agency concerns next season, as numerous key players will be at the end of their contracts, as well as all of the 1-year tenders we signed.

We have far larger fish to fry than hoping to bank on the Luck sweepstakes. That's not going to fill an immediate and pressing need.

Besides, what if Manning does come back? Then what? We bet the farm on a guy who's playing 4 years from now, while not better equipping Manning for a memorable ride into the sunset?

All of the Luck talk is ridiculous.

If we don't have to give up anything to get him, and no other teams without a need are offering us ridiculous amounts of players/picks to get the #1 spot, then I'd consider it.

Well, im not sure why you went into this inciteful breakdown of the Colts when I was just responding to how good I think Luck will be. Im well aware the Colts have a lot of problems but we were just discussing Luck compared to VY. I can not guarantee success on his part but I will guarantee he is not a VY in any way, shape, or form. If VY had a fraction of Lucks cerebral football knowledge he could be a good QB but the simple fact is he don't. I can't predict what Polian would do if we were in the unfortunate posistion to pick Luck, but I would bet he couldn't pass on a talent like him. I still say that all the problems this team has can not/will not be fixed entirely through the draft anyway so when you have a chance to get a guy like Luck you take him. If he has to ride the bench a few yrs. behind Manning then thats what he'll do.

[HitStick21]

I hate to say it but even with Manning, this team stinks. Who do you think they can beat? We just got our butts handed to us by the Browns, how low does it get? I dont see 2 games we can win. Its not a ridiculous thread. I dont want to see us lose but the fact is, we arnt going to win and we had better start with a great draft pick to begin rebuilding this team. Its going to take Irsay having some guts and dumping Calwell and find someone with some vision. Tired of people telling other people how they should feel. We are ticked, especially those of us who have been saying we have problems for a long time now.

With Manning we would have a GREAT shot at knocking off Houston in Houston. W/ Manning today, we would've bent the Browns over backwards because those first three drives would have been 21 points. They go into "Oh Crap" pass mode, and we unleash the beast up front. That, which we discuss so frequently, is the Peyton Manning effect. So no, with Manning, this team does NOT stink because we play so, so much better with him carrying the other 52 on his back... hence the neck pain ;).

[Smitto]

I hate to say it but even with Manning, this team stinks. Who do you think they can beat? We just got our butts handed to us by the Browns, how low does it get? I dont see 2 games we can win. Its not a ridiculous thread. I dont want to see us lose but the fact is, we arnt going to win and we had better start with a great draft pick to begin rebuilding this team. Its going to take Irsay having some guts and dumping Calwell and find someone with some vision. Tired of people telling other people how they should feel. We are ticked, especially those of us who have been saying we have problems for a long time now.

Caldwell is not the problem, if the QB was doing his job ppl wouldnt be complaining about caldwell... he's not the one throwing the ball, and he's not the one calling the Offensive plays either... its the QB.

[BProland85]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point. I can already tell the Colts have virtually no shot at a playoff birth even with some improvement. I won't be actually rooting against them but I won't mind if they lose as many games as possible if it accomplishes two things I want this year. That we will win the Luck sweepstakes and that we will get an entire new coach and coaching staff which will hopefully lead to a whole new defensive philosophy. I don't expect Manning back this year at all but if those couple of things happen next year this won't totally be a wasted season. Go ahead and slam me but I think losing a lot is the only way we are going to get rid of the current coaching staff so every loss puts us closer to that possibility IMO.

Great post! Completely agree with you. I really wanna see a new coaching staff and hopefully they dont get a pass because Manning wasnt playing. There are still other pro bowl players on the team.

[Jason_]

Caldwell is not the problem, if the QB was doing his job ppl wouldnt be complaining about caldwell... he's not the one throwing the ball, and he's not the one calling the Offensive plays either... its the QB.

I agree with most...as far as coaching goes the problem is with the defensive coaches. However, I find it very unlikely that Collins is the one calling the plays.

[natelombardi]

just stating the facts vince young is a winning qb in the nfl check his record so what if luck is like vince young?????????? and i agree we are gonna win no more then 2 games and for all we know peyton might retire and never recover i mean we didnt think he would miss a gm did we?? we want luck a press corner for our 2nd round pick and a big nt in the 3rd and we will be in the super bowl next year and have our qb for life after peyton manning perfect

[JCPatriot]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point.

You don't have to agree with me but like I said I'm not rooting Against them so no I'm not Wanting the team to lose.

So you don't want them to lose, you would just rather see them lose? Kind of seems like mincing words to me.

[ViriLudant]

That's risky

what if Andrew Luck is Vince Young?

...and how will we gain if Manning returns for 4 more years...

The Andrew Luck thing hasnt been thought through very well..

..why would he want to sit four years behind Manning?

Or, more importantly, what if (and I think that this is the case) the Colts need a lot more than just their starting QB?

[BProland85]

Let me put it this way... YOU WANT YOUR TEAM TO LOSE, and you're saying that it's for the future. wth?? If you want your team to lose, that doesn't make you a good fan, and don't use the future as an excuse, because that's just pathetic. You always hope for your team to win, and not lose. You can't hope for them to lose, so you could get one player in next years draft. Plus, Mathis said they're not tanking, and why would they. They get paid millions of dollars, and you want them to tank the rest of the games. I'm sorry, but my respect for you went way down...

Would you rather have us actually make the playoffs, lose in the 1st round because come on this team cant do much against playoff teams, and go into next season STILL with the same coaching issues we've had since Dungy left? Or would you rather have us have ONE horrible year, bounce back next year and get a future franchise QB in the process? Call me crazy but Id rather have us be in the position to be great for the next decade or more.

[natelombardi]

the colts will never get peyton the help he needs. why have they not done it yet????? justin blaylock lg from the falcons why didnt we sign him???? he is a good team player and we have cap room harry dahl why not sign him another good o lineman and a huge upgrade why not him????? this undrafted rookie crap is not helping manning its polian trying to make sugar out of sh....we hav not stopped the run since 99 remember we went 13-3 and eddie george ran over us in the playoffs???the same thing happens every yr other then our super bowl year and ima call that a lucky fluke....front office is horrible bottom line

[Xfiles]

but I would almost rather see the Colts lose at this point. I can already tell the Colts have virtually no shot at a playoff birth even with some improvement. I won't be actually rooting against them but I won't mind if they lose as many games as possible if it accomplishes two things I want this year. That we will win the Luck sweepstakes and that we will get an entire new coach and coaching staff which will hopefully lead to a whole new defensive philosophy. I don't expect Manning back this year at all but if those couple of things happen next year this won't totally be a wasted season. Go ahead and slam me but I think losing a lot is the only way we are going to get rid of the current coaching staff so every loss puts us closer to that possibility IMO.

I can not and will not ever hope for my team to lose. No matter what their record is.