Tom Brady signs extension with Patriots (merge)

[-JJ-]

Interesting stuff I heard from local sports today. The negotiating ripple effect from Brady taking less filtering down to other players on the team.  (less so across the league)

 

It's just one card but cards ARE played in negotiations.

Pats offer 8.5m to Welker and he wants 10m.... NE says but look what Tom took for less to be here (and Welker does want to be here)    And Spikes' contract is coming up ect...

 

Or Welker might say I want 10 mil so I'm leaving...but there is an effect here...

Welker wants too much and the fans hate him. Welker wants just a little more but NE wouldn't step up and the fans hate the Patriots FO.

 

And Brady took less so Welker could leave?  Reminds him of taking less on the 2nd big contract and then NE shoves Branch and Givens out for Caldwell. 

 

All kinds of little stuff here.

 

One fact I heard..franchise tag for QB just went down 800k and that's not chump change.

[MAC]

A 

Since amfootball is so curious about my life, I will go ahead and share although I don't understand why she thinks my life has anything to do with Brady.

 

You and I have had some private conversations regarding your situation, and I know how difficult it must have been to be so open about it all

So sorry for your troubles, and appreciative of your sharing. If it's any consolation, you're not alone in harboring stories that might curl an innocent reader's toes. Ironically I've also bent Gramz's ear a time or two. Hmmmm. Perhaps she should hang a shingle. 

 

[amfootball]

I have heard this too but I think it is unrealistic scenario. What Brady did and was able to do as a superstar QB does not correlate at all to a 32 year old receiver. And to be honest, the Pats rarely pay more than market value for anyone. Never have. If anything, they would say to welker or any FA that look we can pay your money but we are not going to break the bank that is not the way we do things which was true before Brady did this deal. What we can promise you is a chance to compete for a ring at a fair market value.

 

In terms of Welker specifically, I have never gotten the sense that he wants to be overpaid. I think he wants more years given his age and previous injury. He wants the security. So, I highly doubt he is going to penny pinch. That being said, if he does he will be gone which like I said would have been true before Brady did his deal.

 

The franchise tag going down $800,000 is chump change when it was at 19M. What is that like 2-3 percent?

 

 

Interesting stuff I heard from local sports today. The negotiating ripple effect from Brady taking less filtering down to other players on the team.  (less so across the league)

 

It's just one card but cards ARE played in negotiations.

Pats offer 8.5m to Welker and he wants 10m.... NE says but look what Tom took for less to be here (and Welker does want to be here)    And Spikes' contract is coming up ect...

 

Or Welker might say I want 10 mil so I'm leaving...but there is an effect here...

Welker wants too much and the fans hate him. Welker wants just a little more but NE wouldn't step up and the fans hate the Patriots FO.

 

And Brady took less so Welker could leave?  Reminds him of taking less on the 2nd big contract and then NE shoves Branch and Givens out for Caldwell. 

 

All kinds of little stuff here.

 

One fact I heard..franchise tag for QB just went down 800k and that's not chump change.

[ColtsBlueFL]

One fact I heard..franchise tag for QB just went down 800k and that's not chump change.

 

Non exclusive tag was set at 14.6 million earlier this month. So, I guess it would now be in the 13.8 million range if the player/agent can't negotiate a  long term deal. That's notable but not earth shattering.

[The Old Crow]

I understand folks not liking the Patriots or Brady... they're easy to dislike.  But sometimes people project their disdain in where others may not see it.  This is an example, if only to me.  Brady sends a statement to put it to bed and not address it in public.  So you scream the other players... the NFLPA, pay scales... the travesty.  Well, here's the deal.  The NFLPA negotiates agreements collectively.  Players negotiate contracts individually. Brady has 'earned' the right to negotiate any individual contract he desires to finish his career.  NFLPA can't interfere. And if the non-exclusive franchise tag for QB gets lowered from say, 14.6 million to 13.3 (or whatever) million, who cares except the players trying to negotiate a high dollar long term deal and other players in his boat?  It is still a very large amount. I don't but most likely Brady does care somewhat as well. However his desire to win is stronger.  And he already restructured for less than market value compensation before.  He made his large sums over the years by elite performance. Sometimes his pay was commiserate with that. Other times he might have been compensated less than his worth. Other players can still do that too.  I have no sympathy for a players/agents ability or inability to negotiate a contract they feel they deserve.  IMHO, I feel way too many are over payed for their contributions already.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, Brady can do what he wants. Just don't act like your Mother Teresa, and have the whole New England Apologist Crowd act like you're some kind of Saint. Yes, he's doing it to win, which is fine. I just don't want to hear how he is above other players for doing this, which was indicated in the letter he sent to the media. It's like, I'm not going to talk about it in the media, but I'm sending a statement to the media giving my theories about it, with a positive spin about myself. This is some of the smugness T-Sizzle cited on WEEI Boston is a radio interview.

[The Old Crow]

Fair answer. I realize Brady is largely disliked across NFL fan bases but I think that happens when a player in any sport enjoys a prolonged period of success.

 

I do, however, think his comments about his deal are genuine, and that he was raised by parents who instilled good values in him. He has, and has always had, a very healthy perspective in that way.

 

To each his own, of course.

 

And Johnny U is a guy I find utterly fascinating. I read recently, "You may or may not think Johnny Unitas was the best QB of all time, but it's impossible to say he wasn't the most important QB of all time." In terms of popularizing the game...

 

In all honesty, Brady is a great quarterback, and I think Belichick is an excellent coach also. Like the Ray Lewis deal, in all fairness, until the Pats win another Super Bowl, the spygate stuff will come up. If they win again in the Brady/Belichick era, it will probably be largely forgotten. Like Ray, Brady would like to get that Super Bowl to further cement his legacy, and distance the Patriots legacy from the taping scandal. This isn't just my opinion, but has even been stated by Boston writer Bob Ryan. Yes, Brady took a cut to help his team win, just like Big Ben. Trust me, I'd like to see Flacco take a little less so that we can sign players and be more competitive. My problem with Brady's statements in that letter, is that he was trying to sound like the voice of reason in professional sports money-making, when he's already made a boatload of money. I agree with you that too much money is being paid in pro sports, but Brady should just be saying he's taking a salary cut to win, and just leave it like that. Some of the Patriots fans are trying to put him up on a pedastal for this, and to me, he's just restructuring money to put his team in a better position. That's all good, just not the other stuff.

 

 

 

Yes, I do think Johnny U was the best quarterback of all time. I know it's a different era, but he had all the intagibles. He's almost a mythical figure in football like Babe Ruth was to baseball.

[amfootball]

In all honesty, Brady is a great quarterback, and I think Belichick is an excellent coach also. Like the Ray Lewis deal, in all fairness, until the Pats win another Super Bowl, the spygate stuff will come up. If they win again in the Brady/Belichick era, it will probably be largely forgotten. Like Ray, Brady would like to get that Super Bowl to further cement his legacy, and distance the Patriots legacy from the taping scandal. This isn't just my opinion, but has even been stated by Boston writer Bob Ryan. Yes, Brady took a cut to help his team win, just like Big Ben. Trust me, I'd like to see Flacco take a little less so that we can sign players and be more competitive. My problem with Brady's statements in that letter, is that he was trying to sound like the voice of reason in professional sports money-making, when he's already made a boatload of money. I agree with you that too much money is being paid in pro sports, but Brady should just be saying he's taking a salary cut to win, and just leave it like that. Some of the Patriots fans are trying to put him up on a pedastal for this, and to me, he's just restructuring money to put his team in a better position. That's all good, just not the other stuff.

 

 

 

Yes, I do think Johnny U was the best quarterback of all time. I know it's a different era, but he had all the intagibles. He's almost a mythical figure in football like Babe Ruth was to baseball.

Spygate will always be brought up by haters even of Pats win two more SBs. As I have said before, if almost going perfect didn't quell the hate, neither will winning a SB. It is what it is. Bob Ryan is not reflective of Boston fans in any way shape or form. He is the ultimate contrarian. Does it to try to look smart and ends up looking ridiculous most of the time. No one is Boston respects him.

 

Brady didn't restructure, he took two below market deals. He has restrucrted in the past which is just moving money around. He did that last year with no hoopla as that is common among high paid players, especially QBs. As soon as Ben or any other top QB signs a below market deal, let me know. Right now, Brady stands alone.

 

Again, your feelings toward the email he sent is what it is. I appreciate the fact that he does not want to talk about it publicly and loved the reasons why. You can your feelings too but they are in the minority.

[GoPats]

In all honesty, Brady is a great quarterback, and I think Belichick is an excellent coach also. Like the Ray Lewis deal, in all fairness, until the Pats win another Super Bowl, the spygate stuff will come up. If they win again in the Brady/Belichick era, it will probably be largely forgotten. Like Ray, Brady would like to get that Super Bowl to further cement his legacy, and distance the Patriots legacy from the taping scandal. This isn't just my opinion, but has even been stated by Boston writer Bob Ryan. Yes, Brady took a cut to help his team win, just like Big Ben. Trust me, I'd like to see Flacco take a little less so that we can sign players and be more competitive. My problem with Brady's statements in that letter, is that he was trying to sound like the voice of reason in professional sports money-making, when he's already made a boatload of money. I agree with you that too much money is being paid in pro sports, but Brady should just be saying he's taking a salary cut to win, and just leave it like that. Some of the Patriots fans are trying to put him up on a pedastal for this, and to me, he's just restructuring money to put his team in a better position. That's all good, just not the other stuff.

 

 

 

Yes, I do think Johnny U was the best quarterback of all time. I know it's a different era, but he had all the intagibles. He's almost a mythical figure in football like Babe Ruth was to baseball.

 

Although I'm not sure that it would really prove anything, I do agree with you that for MOST of the fans of other NFL teams, another title is the only thing that will eliminate any lingering questions about Spygate.

 

I would be right there with them, too, if it wasn't for the fact that the Patriots were one helmet catch away in 2007 and one Welker drop away in 2011 from adding that fourth ring. I would think a fully objective person (which I realize I am not, as a fan) would look at the circumstances:

 

- The Patriots won 3 Super Bowls by a combined 9 points

- The Patriots lost 2 Super Bowls by a combined 7 points

 

And simply conclude the obvious. No one wins all the time.

 

Thanks for the civilized conversation. Good to have you on the board.

[The Old Crow]

Although I'm not sure that it would really prove anything, I do agree with you that for MOST of the fans of other NFL teams, another title is the only thing that will eliminate any lingering questions about Spygate.

 

I would be right there with them, too, if it wasn't for the fact that the Patriots were one helmet catch away in 2007 and one Welker drop away in 2011 from adding that fourth ring. I would think a fully objective person (which I realize I am not, as a fan) would look at the circumstances:

 

- The Patriots won 3 Super Bowls by a combined 9 points

- The Patriots lost 2 Super Bowls by a combined 7 points

 

And simply conclude the obvious. No one wins all the time.

 

Thanks for the civilized conversation. Good to have you on the board.

 

 

It's like the Ray Lewis thing, they love him in Baltimore, but you always get the murder comments from alot of NFL fans. After the 2nd Super Bowl, it has calmed down, but it will never go away. You guys got the Super Bowls , no one can take them away, and I'm sure no one in New England gives a crap about spygate. It's all good fun.

 

Honestly, that 18-1 season would have killed me. You guys had that game, and Tyree mmakes the luckiest catch in the universe, after Manning almost getting sacked. Maybe it's the law of averages like the tuck rule game, when it came out in your favor. It's still hard for me to get over the Colts loss in Super Bowl 3 to this day, and the Orioles 3 World Series losses. Like some of those games, I think the Patriots were better than the Giants in both of those Super Bowls. Those losses always haunt you. Had the Ravens lost after that dang blackout, it would have bothered me forever , because of the momentum switch.

[-JJ-]

It's like the Ray Lewis thing, they love him in Baltimore, but you always get the murder comments from alot of NFL fans. After the 2nd Super Bowl, it has calmed down, but it will never go away. You guys got the Super Bowls , no one can take them away, and I'm sure no one in New England gives a crap about spygate. It's all good fun.

 

Honestly, that 18-1 season would have killed me. You guys had that game, and Tyree mmakes the luckiest catch in the universe, after Manning almost getting sacked. Maybe it's the law of averages like the tuck rule game, when it came out in your favor. It's still hard for me to get over the Colts loss in Super Bowl 3 to this day, and the Orioles 3 World Series losses. Like some of those games, I think the Patriots were better than the Giants in both of those Super Bowls. Those losses always haunt you. Had the Ravens lost after that dang blackout, it would have bothered me forever , because of the momentum switch.

True enough..the luck or tuck of the bounce is huge in football. Still NE should have had a better lead. I swear Josh played just as scared there as the last Giants SB.

 

As to spygate.  Whats his name from Chicago was hoppin' over a fence in the woods to film an opponent's walk through with an 8mm camera back in the 40's ...so spygate is so old hat.

 

Thats how this old patriot fan sees it as I wouldn't defend it for the sake of it.

It just what it is..nothing.

 

well maybe 1% advantage making it easier to piece together signals that could be obtained legally

[ColtsBlueFL]

Don't get me wrong, Brady can do what he wants. Just don't act like your Mother Teresa, and have the whole New England Apologist Crowd act like you're some kind of Saint. Yes, he's doing it to win, which is fine. I just don't want to hear how he is above other players for doing this, which was indicated in the letter he sent to the media. It's like, I'm not going to talk about it in the media, but I'm sending a statement to the media giving my theories about it, with a positive spin about myself. This is some of the smugness T-Sizzle cited on WEEI Boston is a radio interview.

 

Yes, I agree Brady snuck a curveball into the mix.  But it appears he's taking a swipe at himself as much as everyone else to help justify his new deal.  He should not have referenced it all, but most all of us have thought it.  Players say it's not about the money when in fact it is ONLY about the money, until that lucrative long term deal is signed.  Then it is not about the money.    And face it, most everybody in the NFL is cocky and smug to some degree, especially regarding their ability. They're an exclusive entity. The elites of that realm even more so.  I'm surprised many of these guys can consistently present some semblance humbleness in public settings (though I'm sure a few truly are). Sometimes things slip out.  I'm sure Brady's comments are polarizing... bringing some on board and separating him from others.  Time will tell how it all shakes out and maybe even the motivation to address it.

[amfootball]

Brady thought the email he sent to WEEI was private. WEEi said that this week.

[Yehoodi]

Brady thought the email he sent to WEEI was private. WEEi said that this week.

yes . . . and the complete story, for those who are not familiar with Brady/WEEI, Brady has a contract to call in every Monday morning to the Dennis and Callahan show on WEEI, which he does (for future reference you all may hear the archive versions on the weei website) . . . but this obligation ends at the end of the season.

As this is the off season and therefore Brady has no obligation to go on the radio John Dennis called Brady asking him if he would like to come on the radio and discuss the contact and all of the associated ramnifications . . . he declined and felt that it was not appropriate to discussing his contract and his reduction in fee . . . he thereafter sent John an email further explaining his reasons for not coming on the radio (along with out personal stuff in his life), and the main thrust of the email was that he did feel right talking about getting a break in income when some many are struggling nowadays . . . not that different than when some fans raise an eyebrow at a player who wants that last dime to "feed his kids" . . . Bottom line Brady's point was we all make a lot of money and to give back some to the team really is not that big of a deal . . .

unfortunately, Dennis make public portions of the email which Brady assumed Dennis whould know that he wanted to keep private . . . the next day, the first thing that Dennis did at 6 am was to apologize for his misstep and explain the situation . . . so bottom line Brady did not want to talk on the radio about the matter and sent Dennis an email which we wanted to keep private . . .

[Yehoodi]

Don't get me wrong, Brady can do what he wants. Just don't act like your Mother Teresa, and have the whole New England Apologist Crowd act like you're some kind of Saint. Yes, he's doing it to win, which is fine. I just don't want to hear how he is above other players for doing this, which was indicated in the letter he sent to the media. It's like, I'm not going to talk about it in the media, but I'm sending a statement to the media giving my theories about it, with a positive spin about myself. This is some of the smugness T-Sizzle cited on WEEI Boston is a radio interview.

I would ask you to kindly read my last post, #293, in regards to the email, the email was never meant to be made public . . .

but regardless, his point was about althetes in general and not about he himself in particular . . . i know you got a hair across your behind about this email, but it not as bad as you try to make it out . . . plain and simple . . .

[The Old Crow]

Maybe the e-mail wasn't supposed to be made public, but he should have just said he wanted to give the Patriots a better chance to win, and left it like that. When dealing with the media, especially nowadays, saying or sending statements off the record, generally end up on the record. Like some of the other posters said, you get two big contracts, then restructure to guarantee more money as an older quarterback, and it's sounds goofy to say you're worried about the common Joe Schmoe fan.

[dw49]

Spygate will always be brought up by haters even of Pats win two more SBs. As I have said before, if almost going perfect didn't quell the hate, neither will winning a SB. It is what it is. Bob Ryan is not reflective of Boston fans in any way shape or form. He is the ultimate contrarian. Does it to try to look smart and ends up looking ridiculous most of the time. No one is Boston respects him.

 

Brady didn't restructure, he took two below market deals. He has restrucrted in the past which is just moving money around. He did that last year with no hoopla as that is common among high paid players, especially QBs. As soon as Ben or any other top QB signs a below market deal, let me know. Right now, Brady stands alone.

 

Again, your feelings toward the email he sent is what it is. I appreciate the fact that he does not want to talk about it publicly and loved the reasons why. You can your feelings too but they are in the minority.

 

 

 

Really... Brady took two below market deals ? What has been keeping you from telling us this ?

[amfootball]

Really... Brady took two below market deals ? What has been keeping you from telling us this ?

I never said two. I said TWO. ;-)

[dw49]

I never said two. I said TWO. ;-)

 

 

 

Got to give you credit , you can take it.

[southwest1]

yes . . . and the complete story, for those who are not familiar with Brady/WEEI, Brady has a contract to call in every Monday morning to the Dennis and Callahan show on WEEI, which he does (for future reference you all may hear the archive versions on the weei website) . . . but this obligation ends at the end of the season.

As this is the off season and therefore Brady has no obligation to go on the radio John Dennis called Brady asking him if he would like to come on the radio and discuss the contact and all of the associated ramnifications . . . he declined and felt that it was not appropriate to discussing his contract and his reduction in fee . . . he thereafter sent John an email further explaining his reasons for not coming on the radio (along with out personal stuff in his life), and the main thrust of the email was that he did feel right talking about getting a break in income when some many are struggling nowadays . . . not that different than when some fans raise an eyebrow at a player who wants that last dime to "feed his kids" . . . Bottom line Brady's point was we all make a lot of money and to give back some to the team really is not that big of a deal . . .

unfortunately, Dennis make public portions of the email which Brady assumed Dennis whould know that he wanted to keep private . . . the next day, the first thing that Dennis did at 6 am was to apologize for his misstep and explain the situation . . . so bottom line Brady did not want to talk on the radio about the matter and sent Dennis an email which we wanted to keep private . . .

Thanks for the additional detail on what WEEI is. I had no idea. I appreciate you filling in the blanks Yehoodi. 

[dw49]

Spygate will always be brought up by haters even of Pats win two more SBs. As I have said before, if almost going perfect didn't quell the hate, neither will winning a SB. It is what it is. Bob Ryan is not reflective of Boston fans in any way shape or form. He is the ultimate contrarian. Does it to try to look smart and ends up looking ridiculous most of the time. No one is Boston respects him.

 

Brady didn't restructure, he took two below market deals. He has restrucrted in the past which is just moving money around. He did that last year with no hoopla as that is common among high paid players, especially QBs. As soon as Ben or any other top QB signs a below market deal, let me know. Right now, Brady stands alone.

 

Again, your feelings toward the email he sent is what it is. I appreciate the fact that he does not want to talk about it publicly and loved the reasons why. You can your feelings too but they are in the minority.

 

 

 

Believe me , I hate this thread . I also am tired of hearing about what you and some others have said he's done. I just have a question that is bugging me a bit. 

 

When myself and others bring up the fact that he's getting guaranteed money at ages 38 , 39 and 40 , an age when all the great QB's (except Moon and favre) are on ESPN. You say that the Pats have a "performance" out , so they are not on the hook for anything. If that's truly the case , why didn't Brady just take a paycut ? Just play the next 3 years for 13 mill per year ? This deal is just so unprecedented. Nobody in their right mind guarantees NFL salaries at 38-39 and 40 years old. You are just assuming a whole bunch when you say the pats can get out of the deal. And further more if he's cooked at 38 , Tom Brady gave up nothing. He still receives all the money he was due to make in the next two years. The only way Brady gave anything to the Pats is if he's still a great QB at ages 38 39 and 40. What this really amounts to is this. Chances are Brady still might be Good at year 38 and maybe he would be worth 15 mill. So in that case he gave up around 6 million in salary. What this really amounts to is the Pats pushing up to 27 mill down the road for cap room. 

[amfootball]

Believe me , I hate this thread . I also am tired of hearing about what you and some others have said he's done. I just have a question that is bugging me a bit. 

 

When myself and others bring up the fact that he's getting guaranteed money at ages 38 , 39 and 40 , an age when all the great QB's (except Moon and favre) are on ESPN. You say that the Pats have a "performance" out , so they are not on the hook for anything. If that's truly the case , why didn't Brady just take a paycut ? Just play the next 3 years for 13 mill per year ? This deal is just so unprecedented. Nobody in their right mind guarantees NFL salaries at 38-39 and 40 years old. You are just assuming a whole bunch when you say the pats can get out of the deal. And further more if he's cooked at 38 , Tom Brady gave up nothing. He still receives all the money he was due to make in the next two years. The only way Brady gave anything to the Pats is if he's still a great QB at ages 38 39 and 40. What this really amounts to is this. Chances are Brady still might be Good at year 38 and maybe he would be worth 15 mill. So in that case he gave up around 6 million in salary. What this really amounts to is the Pats pushing up to 27 mill down the road for cap room. 

Great questions. I am not sure I have the answers as so much of this is conjecture and trying to read between the lines and assumptions about how well Brady will or won’t play in his late 30’s. I think we have to go by the facts right now otherwise we are just arguing conjecture. With that as premise, Brady signed an extension that will pay him $9mil over three years. That is half of his market value. Yes, it is guaranteed and I think in order to have this deal get done you have to guarantee it. You also have to agree that if Brady played out his last two years with the pats and then signed with another team for a 2 year deal, he would have easily gotten 9 mil guaranteed on a 20-21 mil contract. Not $15 mil like you suggest. Like someone posted earlier, Tennessee was prepared to pay Manning coming off of four neck surgeries and a reported weak arm $25 mil last year because of ticket sales. I think a team like Jacksonville for example would easily pay Brady that if not more to stand on the side line with his helmet off.

 

Regarding your question about Brady signing for less. Who is to say that a deal for less was not purposed? I think $9mil was probably as low as they could go without the PA making a huge stink. I think one of the reasons they have not come out against the current deal is because Brady put his name on the lawsuit against the league during the CBA negotiations. If you recall it was him, Manning and Brees.

 

Also, the deal does in fact say that the Pats can opt out if his performance decreases. That is a huge out IMO because as you state so few QBs have been able to play well late in the 30s and early 40’s. His performance decreasing is a lot more likely than a career ending injury when you add in the fact that he plays a safe QB style and the rules that protect QBs. So again, the risk here is on Brady’s end to not get paid.

 

Lastly, and what has been my main thrust of this debate is history tells us that Brady for the majority of his career has played under market value. When he won his first SB he was making a little more than league minimum as a late round pick. When he was winning his second and third SBs, he was making $6m/year. Let that sit in a minute. $6mil. He then signed an extension after this third SB for $10 mil for six years and played under that for 5 years when QBs like Vick were signing 100 mil contracts. While I can’t say for sure that Brady will play out the three years at $27 mil, history shows that he has played for under market value and has played out nearly every contract he has ever signed, getting extended each time with either one or two years left on the deal. And one other thing, if he signed his deal with the expressed purpose to help the Pats put talent around him to win, why on earth in two years would he go back to Kraft and demand more money? Makes no sense. The guy has never as so much as quibbled about a contract in his whole career. It is ridiculous to assume he would do so now.

[amfootball]

Peter King also shed some light on the guarantee part of the deal. Apparently the $27 mil is not guaranteed in 2015 but is a year by year guarantee based on Brady's health...http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/nfl/news/20130304/joe-flacco-tom-brady-peter-king-monday-morning-quarterback/?sct=uk_t11_a3

 

"As for the other guarantees, the final three years will be guaranteed year by year. In some quarters it's been reported that Brady will have the final $24 million guaranteed if he's healthy and able to play in 2015. In reality, the 2015 salary will be guaranteed if he's healthy entering that league year, and the 2016 and '17 salaries guaranteed similarly, year by year, if he's healthy."

 

[dw49]

Great questions. I am not sure I have the answers as so much of this is conjecture and trying to read between the lines and assumptions about how well Brady will or won’t play in his late 30’s. I think we have to go by the facts right now otherwise we are just arguing conjecture. With that as premise, Brady signed an extension that will pay him $9mil over three years. That is half of his market value. Yes, it is guaranteed and I think in order to have this deal get done you have to guarantee it. You also have to agree that if Brady played out his last two years with the pats and then signed with another team for a 2 year deal, he would have easily gotten 9 mil guaranteed on a 20-21 mil contract. Not $15 mil like you suggest. Like someone posted earlier, Tennessee was prepared to pay Manning coming off of four neck surgeries and a reported weak arm $25 mil last year because of ticket sales. I think a team like Jacksonville for example would easily pay Brady that if not more to stand on the side line with his helmet off.

 

Regarding your question about Brady signing for less. Who is to say that a deal for less was not purposed? I think $9mil was probably as low as they could go without the PA making a huge stink. I think one of the reasons they have not come out against the current deal is because Brady put his name on the lawsuit against the league during the CBA negotiations. If you recall it was him, Manning and Brees.

 

Also, the deal does in fact say that the Pats can opt out if his performance decreases. That is a huge out IMO because as you state so few QBs have been able to play well late in the 30s and early 40’s. His performance decreasing is a lot more likely than a career ending injury when you add in the fact that he plays a safe QB style and the rules that protect QBs. So again, the risk here is on Brady’s end to not get paid.

 

Lastly, and what has been my main thrust of this debate is history tells us that Brady for the majority of his career has played under market value. When he won his first SB he was making a little more than league minimum as a late round pick. When he was winning his second and third SBs, he was making $6m/year. Let that sit in a minute. $6mil. He then signed an extension after this third SB for $10 mil for six years and played under that for 5 years when QBs like Vick were signing 100 mil contracts. While I can’t say for sure that Brady will play out the three years at $27 mil, history shows that he has played for under market value and has played out nearly every contract he has ever signed, getting extended each time with either one or two years left on the deal. And one other thing, if he signed his deal with the expressed purpose to help the Pats put talent around him to win, why on earth in two years would he go back to Kraft and demand more money? Makes no sense. The guy has never as so much as quibbled about a contract in his whole career. It is ridiculous to assume he would do so now.

 

 

 

I really don't know what to make of the whole thing . Is Brady in reality just giving the Pats some cap relief in 2013 -2014 , or is he taking a contract under market value. Point is that he's agreeing to less in years that he might not ne able to play at a high level. At the least , I wuodl say Brady made a team friendly deal. However it's possible that it may just be kicking the can down the road. I guess we will have to see how this plays out 3-4 years down the line to really answer these questions.

[amfootball]

I really don't know what to make of the whole thing . Is Brady in reality just giving the Pats some cap relief in 2013 -2014 , or is he taking a contract under market value. Point is that he's agreeing to less in years that he might not ne able to play at a high level. At the least , I wuodl say Brady made a team friendly deal. However it's possible that it may just be kicking the can down the road. I guess we will have to see how this plays out 3-4 years down the line to really answer these questions.

I am not sure if anyone does. The deal is unprecedented. Kraft told Peter King in yesterday's Monday morning QB that the Pats don't do fake deals and that the deal will not be redone in two years. He said he talked to Brady about it for 18 months so it was something that Brady obviously thought about for a long time. This is the rub for Brady - what if he is playing at a Brett Favre level in two years? As I said before, he plays a style of football that is conducive to longevity. He reads the defense quick, gets rid of the ball, and generally has a small to medium range passing attack. This means he takes less sacks and does not need a canon ala Flacco to get it down field. But I think the most important thing to consider from Brady's end is that he could have left the Pats in two years and signed for mega money for a junk team like I stated earlier. He is by far the most marketable player in the NFL so even a Brady at 75 percent would be worth it to a team like the Jags or Titans to pay him 25 mil just for ticket sales and merchandise alone. And while I don't believe Brady would ever play for a team just for money, he is no doubt leaving that money on the table.

 

One other thing to consider, if this in reality is really just a team friendly deal that helps clear cap space then I would fully expect BOTH Brees and Manning to do the same. I mean Elway and Benson would jump at the chance to sign them to this type of deal I am sure. Let's see how it all unfolds. It is very intriguing.

[bayone]

I am not sure if anyone does. The deal is unprecedented. Kraft told Peter King in yesterday's Monday morning QB that the Pats don't do fake deals and that the deal will not be redone in two years. He said he talked to Brady about it for 18 months so it was something that Brady obviously thought about for a long time. This is the rub for Brady - what if he is playing at a Brett Favre level in two years? As I said before, he plays a style of football that is conducive to longevity. He reads the defense quick, gets rid of the ball, and generally has a small to medium range passing attack. This means he takes less sacks and does not need a canon ala Flacco to get it down field. But I think the most important thing to consider from Brady's end is that he could have left the Pats in two years and signed for mega money for a junk team like I stated earlier. He is by far the most marketable player in the NFL so even a Brady at 75 percent would be worth it to a team like the Jags or Titans to pay him 25 mil just for ticket sales and merchandise alone. And while I don't believe Brady would ever play for a team just for money, he is no doubt leaving that money on the table.

 

One other thing to consider, if this in reality is really just a team friendly deal that helps clear cap space then I would fully expect BOTH Brees and Manning to do the same. I mean Elway and Benson would jump at the chance to sign them to this type of deal I am sure. Let's see how it all unfolds. It is very intriguing.

 

Think I heard Brees May be  restructuring, but had no viable source where read it & a search turned up ZERO on it

 

Peyton somewhat different as is 2 year contract really and injury issues, not that to any other person on this site 21 dominoes alone is enough to set me up for life but do think still peyton is a different case and is new to team and in effect this is year 1 of a new contract the way it was structiured with outs for the broncos if injury presented , so last year had year 1 out , now have a 2 year out if i am correct

[Yehoodi]

I wanted to respond to the other thread regarding Manning's contract as it is on point with this thread, and alas it was locked . . . . . . but the bottom line is that some in this thread and this board (and not to mention some in the media) have had the point that Brady did not do anything special as he was getting 57 mil guaranteed . . . I responded in this thread or another, that basically no one would say boo if a QB got 100 mil in 5 years with 60 mil guaranteed, but some as saying boo at Brady's 57 mil, well 60>57 regardless of how you do the math . . .

Some said that an old QB does not garner this money 18-20 million, but Farve and Warner have both done this and we know a year ago manning did also . . . the difference between what Brady did, as opposed to his contemporaries, is that he took 9 mil per year in the last three years as opposed to the 18-19 mil that the other have received . . .

In 2009 at age of 38, Warner got 19 mil, 15 guaranteed

In 2012 at age of 36 Manning sign a 5 year contract worth 96 mil, 18 guaranteed initially and another 40 mil recently . . . here is a link to the contract . . . so in year two its 58 mil guaranteed, which interestingly is greater than 57 mil . . . i found this link a few weeks ago and never had to time to respond to this topic with this post . . .

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-03-20/peyton-manning-broncos-tim-tebow-john-elway-2012-nfl-free-agents

so manning falls under the no one says boo about 58 mil tucked in a 98 mil overall contract . . . but some want to complain about an all guranteed contact even tho its one mill less . . . Both Manning and Brady contracts are 5 years with the same ages at QB . . .

and for what it is worth Brady contract is voidable with respect to Pats the end of next year, then can cut him without any monies due, so bottom line the extension is no different legally in the Brady's defense if he just played out the old contract then signed a fresh one a year from now for 27 mil . . .

No one really knows what a QB is worth at the end of his thirties . . . but most have to admit that 9 mil per year is below what Brady could of otherwise have garnered if he wanted too . . . i am not going to split hairs and say Brady, Manning, Rogers, etc are plus or minus a mil or two, but most would admit, whether they are worth it or not, will garner something north of 15 mil . . .

and the fact that Brady money is "gauranteed" (he still needs to be playng at the end of 2014), does not mean boo if it is no different than what QB similiarly situated in the same guaranteed money for a larger contract . . . unlike Brady, the QB in the later situation will still be owe monies if he is still playings in years 38-40 . . .

[amfootball]

I wanted to respond to the other thread regarding Manning's contract as it is on point with this thread, and alas it was locked . . . . . . but the bottom line is that some in this thread and this board (and not to mention some in the media) have had the point that Brady did not do anything special as he was getting 57 mil guaranteed . . . I responded in this thread or another, that basically no one would say boo if a QB got 100 mil in 5 years with 60 mil guaranteed, but some as saying boo at Brady's 57 mil, well 60>57 regardless of how you do the math . . .

Some said that an old QB does not garner this money 18-20 million, but Farve and Warner have both done this and we know a year ago manning did also . . . the difference between what Brady did, as opposed to his contemporaries, is that he took 9 mil per year in the last three years as opposed to the 18-19 mil that the other have received . . .

In 2009 at age of 38, Warner got 19 mil, 15 guaranteed

In 2012 at age of 36 Manning sign a 5 year contract worth 96 mil, 18 guaranteed initially and another 40 mil recently . . . here is a link to the contract . . . so in year two its 58 mil guaranteed, which interestingly is greater than 57 mil . . . i found this link a few weeks ago and never had to time to respond to this topic with this post . . .

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-03-20/peyton-manning-broncos-tim-tebow-john-elway-2012-nfl-free-agents

so manning falls under the no one says boo about 58 mil tucked in a 98 mil overall contract . . . but some want to complain about an all guranteed contact even tho its one mill less . . . Both Manning and Brady contracts are 5 years with the same ages at QB . . .

and for what it is worth Brady contract is voidable with respect to Pats the end of next year, then can cut him without any monies due, so bottom line the extension is no different legally in the Brady's defense if he just played out the old contract then signed a fresh one a year from now for 27 mil . . .

No one really knows what a QB is worth at the end of his thirties . . . but most have to admit that 9 mil per year is below what Brady could of otherwise have garnered if he wanted too . . . i am not going to split hairs and say Brady, Manning, Rogers, etc are plus or minus a mil or two, but most would admit, whether they are worth it or not, will garner something north of 15 mil . . .

and the fact that Brady money is "gauranteed" (he still needs to be playng at the end of 2014), does not mean boo if it is no different than what QB similiarly situated in the same guaranteed money for a larger contract . . . unlike Brady, the QB in the later situation will still be owe monies if he is still playings in years 38-40 . . .

Excellent points. Bottom line: Brady just put his team in position to contend for five years. I am anxious to see what the Pats do this week and the rest of FA.

 

I also think Elway in a hearbeat will do the same contract for Manning and Benson for Brees but neither would ever sign it. Brady is in a class all his own when it comes to wanting to win.

[Dustin]

Can we get a lock on this thread as well?

[amfootball]

I thought it was already locked. :-)

[Yehoodi]

Can we get a lock on this thread as well?

I don't think we need a lock as for the most part we have all said our peace on the matter . . . I just had one last point on the matter and was too lazy/busy to make it two weeks ago . . . btw, glad to see Manning passed his physical and will be playing four more years . . . a big step from a year ago August . . . :-) . . .

[amfootball]

I don't think we need a lock as for the most part we have all said our peace on the matter . . . I just had one last point on the matter and was too lazy/busy to make it two weeks ago . . . btw, glad to see Manning passed his physical and will be playing four more years . . . a big step from a year ago August . . . :-) . . .

Yeah, we have done pretty good for eight pages. :-)  It is hard to say anything negative about St. Manning up here but really the guy has been a great QB but not above reproach by any means...