that big FA WR

[schwamm]

I am all for looking at picking up some talent at WR in free agency, and have mentioned Greg Jennings on more than one occassion as someone I'd love to see in speed blue.  He isn't that tall receiver, though.

 

I can definitely see the point of pursuing a bigger bodied receiver too.  I'm just not a fan of Bowe (the guy most people seem to be mentioning), and think he could do more harm than good to the chemistry that the Colts have been developing.  I don't mind the idea of Donario Alexander, but it scratches at the back of my head that there has to be some reason why he keeps finding himself out of a job when he clearly shows moments of brilliance.

 

The guy I wouldn't mind us looking at is Ramses Barden (6'-6", 224 lbs).  He was a guy I wanted the Colts to consider as a 4th to 5th round gem in 2009, but the Giants grabbed him in the 3rd.  I am hardly expert, but it seems like he excelled in his few chances.  Unfortunately, he was largely stuck behind Cruz, Nicks and Hixon (and Manningham before he was allowed to walk).

 

If memory serves, he was given 1 opportunity to start this past season (a prime time game against Carolina, I think) and racked up a monster game.  I could really see him as a great complementary addition in the land of the smurfs.

[SuperJoe33]

I don't think that Greg Jennings would be necessarily a great fit for the Colts. I just have my doubts about him staying healthy and being able to mesh with what they already have. He's also slightly bigger than Avery, and slightly bigger than Wayne if any.

 

However I do like your thoughts on Ramses Barden. I also think that there's a possibility of Rueben Randle being on the market.

 

Lastly if I had to guess I'm going to bet that Dwayne Bowe stays with the Chiefs now that Andy Reid is there. He'll be able to figure out how to get the ball in his hands. My God look what he did with Kevin called before he got knocked out by Clay Matthews. If memory serves they were 4-1 may be 4-2 and starting quarterback

[schwamm]

I don't think that Greg Jennings would be necessarily a great fit for the Colts. I just have my doubts about him staying healthy and being able to mesh with what they already have. He's also slightly bigger than Avery, and slightly bigger than Wayne if any.

 

However I do like your thoughts on Ramses Barden. I also think that there's a possibility of Rueben Randle being on the market.

 

Lastly if I had to guess I'm going to bet that Dwayne Bowe stays with the Chiefs now that Andy Reid is there. He'll be able to figure out how to get the ball in his hands. My God look what he did with Kevin called before he got knocked out by Clay Matthews. If memory serves they were 4-1 may be 4-2 and starting quarterback

I think I'd be a little shocked if Randle is available.  The Giants seem to like him, he's only just finished his rookie campaign, is cheap, and if anything, he is the reason Barden is unlikely to be re-signed.

[SuperJoe33]

I can agree with you there one or the other is going to walk. Either way if we were to get one of him I think it would be good for the Colts. I get irritated watching Avery drop balls that hit him in the hands. (Or in the facemask)

[Nobody]

I don't think that Greg Jennings would be necessarily a great fit for the Colts. I just have my doubts about him staying healthy and being able to mesh with what they already have. He's also slightly bigger than Avery, and slightly bigger than Wayne if any.

 

However I do like your thoughts on Ramses Barden. I also think that there's a possibility of Rueben Randle being on the market.

 

Lastly if I had to guess I'm going to bet that Dwayne Bowe stays with the Chiefs now that Andy Reid is there. He'll be able to figure out how to get the ball in his hands. My God look what he did with Kevin called before he got knocked out by Clay Matthews. If memory serves they were 4-1 may be 4-2 and starting quarterback

He is smaller than Wayne, not taller. 5'11 to Wayne's 6'.

And to OP, I think Bowe's "attitude" is false. He is playing at a position that requires good QB play for a team that refuses to draft/sign a capable QB.

And I also want an AJ Green type receiver. I salivate at the long second TD Luck threw to AJ. Did you see how often he looked to Green? He appreciates his type of reciever.

[CR91]

we dont need another small wr. dont put too much stock in that one game vs the panthers. they were obviously focusing their attention on cruz. bowe is a proven player in the nfl that has got it down with qbs like matt cassel broyle crolel and brady quinn. imagine what he can do with luck throwing him the ball.

[schwamm]

we dont need another small wr. dont put too much stock in that one game vs the panthers. they were obviously focusing their attention on cruz. bowe is a proven player in the nfl that has got it down with qbs like matt cassel broyle crolel and brady quinn. imagine what he can do with luck throwing him the ball.

Small? Barden is 6'-6".

[CR91]

Small? Barden is 6'-6".

 

i meant jennings when i said small

[schwamm]

He is smaller than Wayne, not taller. 5'11 to Wayne's 6'. And to OP, I think Bowe's "attitude" is false. He is playing at a position that requires good QB play for a team that refuses to draft/sign a capable QB. And I also want an AJ Green type receiver. I salivate at the long second TD Luck threw to AJ. Did you see how often he looked to Green? He appreciates his type of reciever.

We could debate the 'tude, I'd argue he's been over full of himself dating back to his LSU days, but regardless... He is going to want to be paid more than the Colts should pay. IMO, Barden would offer potential and size for MUCH less.

[CR91]

We could debate the 'tude, I'd argue he's been over full of himself dating back to his LSU days, but regardless... He is going to want to be paid more than the Colts should pay. IMO, Barden would offer potential and size for MUCH less.

 

would you really trust barden to be a starter once wayne leaves? with bowe we have two number one wrs and this would give us time to groom ty for him to be our future number one

[NewColtsFan]

I am all for looking at picking up some talent at WR in free agency, and have mentioned Greg Jennings on more than one occassion as someone I'd love to see in speed blue.  He isn't that tall receiver, though.

 

I can definitely see the point of pursuing a bigger bodied receiver too.  I'm just not a fan of Bowe (the guy most people seem to be mentioning), and think he could do more harm than good to the chemistry that the Colts have been developing.  I don't mind the idea of Donario Alexander, but it scratches at the back of my head that there has to be some reason why he keeps finding himself out of a job when he clearly shows moments of brilliance.

 

The guy I wouldn't mind us looking at is Ramses Barden (6'-6", 224 lbs).  He was a guy I wanted the Colts to consider as a 4th to 5th round gem in 2009, but the Giants grabbed him in the 3rd.  I am hardly expert, but it seems like he excelled in his few chances.  Unfortunately, he was largely stuck behind Cruz, Nicks and Hixon (and Manningham before he was allowed to walk).

 

If memory serves, he was given 1 opportunity to start this past season (a prime time game against Carolina, I think) and racked up a monster game.  I could really see him as a great complementary addition in the land of the smurfs.

 

 

Schwamm....

 

You're reading my mind like the cheap novel it is!!    Barden is the guy I hope we invest in too.   And I think we'd get him for dirt cheap.    Like 2-years, $2 Mill.    Maybe less.

 

As to the argument for AJ Green....   who doesn't want a guy like that?   When he came out there was one other guy like that...  Julio Jones.   Both went in the top-10.     And there are zero guys like Green and Jones this year.    You could grown old enough to qualify for AARP before you find a guy like that.   All 32 teams want someone like that.

 

To be clear, I'm not expecting the Colts will sign Barden.   If the Colts make an announcement and Grigson says the team has just signed Barden,   my wife will be waking me up with the smelling salts...   (or worse!)   

[Dark Superman]

I'll take anyone with talent.. Let's just see what Grigson wants.. the man loves speed.

[throwing BBZ]

Bowe has the size that looks good and just enough speed. Not sure he has shown enough Team player traits for Grigson to give the guy $10+M a yr for 4 years or more, especially as he will be 29 at the start of next season.

Especially IMO, as we are so many players and a few years away from building a deep, experienced in playing together team.

Sooner we get a bigger WR in the system the better tho.

[mountaineer]

Bowe has the size that looks good and just enough speed. Not sure he has shown enough Team player traits for Grigson to give the guy $10+M a yr for 4 years or more, especially as he will be 29 at the start of next season.

Especially IMO, as we are so many players and a few years away from building a deep, experienced in playing together team.

Sooner we get a bigger WR in the system the better tho.

In all fairness to Bowe, he has never had a big time QB throwing him the ball. OL is just too much of a priority right now. WR would be a luxury.

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Schwamm....

 

You're reading my mind like the cheap novel it is!!    Barden is the guy I hope we invest in too.   And I think we'd get him for dirt cheap.    Like 2-years, $2 Mill.    Maybe less.

 

As to the argument for AJ Green....   who doesn't want a guy like that?   When he came out there was one other guy like that...  Julio Jones.   Both went in the top-10.     And there are zero guys like Green and Jones this year.    You could grown old enough to qualify for AARP before you find a guy like that.   All 32 teams want someone like that.

 

To be clear, I'm not expecting the Colts will sign Barden.   If the Colts make an announcement and Grigson says the team has just signed Barden,   my wife will be waking me up with the smelling salts...   (or worse!)   

I give you.... Deandre Hopkins from clemson.  he really shined with and without the presence of sammy watkins and has very reliable hands ala aj green.  i really hope we give this guy a look. also cobi hamilton from arkansas fits that mold as well

[NewColtsFan]

I give you.... Deandre Hopkins from clemson.  he really shined with and without the presence of sammy watkins and has very reliable hands ala aj green.  i really hope we give this guy a look. also cobi hamilton from arkansas fits that mold as well

 

 

Hopkins is really very, very good.   A possible 1st round pick.

 

But I think he's roughly 6'0"...    the Schwamm and I were talking about big, as in tall receivers...   Barden is 6'6" and has been kept by the Giants all 4 years of his contract.  And played well in the few chances he's been given.   I think the Giants are an organization that knows how to find quality WR's...   they've been loaded with them for a number of years now.   So, Barden has been on my radar as a result.     Plus,  since he hasn't done that much,  he'll be cheap!   (always a bonus!)

 

Hopkins is a tempting receiver...   but in a different kind of way...

 

Hope that clarifies....

[tydontlie]

I dont understand everyones obsession with a "Big WR". All I would like is a reciever that can produce! idc what size you are as long as you are a reliable wr (sure hands, knows how to get open)..and since when does being big and tall make you better than someone that isnt?? I would take Jennings any day idc if he's 5'11 or 2'11 the guy can ball and yall know that. Yes, everyone would like a Calvin Johnson, but the problem is there is not many of them walking this planet.

[dpete]

I dont understand everyones obsession with a "Big WR". All I would like is a reciever that can produce! idc what size you are as long as you are a reliable wr (sure hands, knows how to get open)..and since when does being big and tall make you better than someone that isnt?? I would take Jennings any day idc if he's 5'11 or 2'11 the guy can ball and yall know that. Yes, everyone would like a Calvin Johnson, but the problem is there is not many of them walking this planet.

Those one guys were pretty good, and only 6'. I think their names were Marvin and Reggie.

[esmort]

I dont understand everyones obsession with a "Big WR". All I would like is a reciever that can produce! idc what size you are as long as you are a reliable wr (sure hands, knows how to get open)..and since when does being big and tall make you better than someone that isnt?? I would take Jennings any day idc if he's 5'11 or 2'11 the guy can ball and yall know that. Yes, everyone would like a Calvin Johnson, but the problem is there is not many of them walking this planet.

 

Being big and tall does not automatically make someone better, but all things being equal it is pretty simple ....big receiver = big target; and it is easier to hit big targets.  They are also harder to defend and that often leads to defenders taking chances to prevent completions; and more chances taken = more mistakes.

[schwamm]

Those one guys were pretty good, and only 6'. I think their names were Marvin and Reggie.

Clearly we are speaking in different tongues. I have no issue with the receivers we have. There is no doubt in my mind that we have the 5'-9" to 6'-1" route runners with descent hands in spades. I think even with Wayne's career winding down, Hilton and Brazill are exciting prospects, and if we wanted, Avery, Collie and Whalen are already on the team, and at least serviceable.

What ever happened to recognizing the value of diverse weapons, though? Thunder is more effective teaming with lightning. So too could the smurfs potentially benefit from an athletic tall receiver.

But I for one don't want to see the Colts rush into a handful of contracts that put them in CAP hockey sticks in just a couple years, so I expect Grigson to look for value options.

IF (maybe its a big if, maybe not) Grigson wants to add a big WR... I think Barden offers a very solid skill set we could utilize, without breaking the bank like Bowe. I would love to see him wearing the horseshoe in a couple months.

[throwing BBZ]

Thanks esmort. It really is that simple. Anyone remember Marvin & Reggie disappearing in a playoff game.

A bigger receiver with strong hands is MORE valuable operating within the tightness of the red zone.IMO

Barden is very slow.

[schwamm]

Barden is very slow.

Based on?

9 one hundredths of a second slower than Bowe over 40 yds. And how much cheaper?

[tydontlie]

Being big and tall does not automatically make someone better, but all things being equal it is pretty simple ....big receiver = big target; and it is easier to hit big targets.  They are also harder to defend and that often leads to defenders taking chances to prevent completions; and more chances taken = more mistakes.

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I believe guys that small quick (and fast) are just as difficult to defend (wes welker, victor cruz), it just depends on the player. And as i stated before, there are only a Handfull of good "big" wr's in the NFL.

Also, being a bigger target doesnt make you a reliable target.

[esmort]

I don't necessarily agree with that statement. I believe guys that small quick (and fast) are just as difficult to defend (wes welker, victor cruz), it just depends on the player. And as i stated before, there are only a Handfull of good "big" wr's in the NFL.

Also, being a bigger target doesnt make you a reliable target.

 

Yes, small fast guys can also be hard defend also, but ...1. A lot of DBs aren't super big so they often match up better with the small WRs.  2. We already have some good small quick receivers; but no good "big WRs" which is why many of us want one (to answer your original question).  Having both types of receivers allows the OC to be able to more easily create favorable mismatches depending on what team we are facing and/or what defense they are using.

[tydontlie]

I understand how everyone wants one, but the thing is yall criticize good players (greg jennings) bc they arnt "tall enough". That just doesnt make sense to me..I see all the time on this forum ppl say, "no we don't need another small wr" even if he's a good to great player in the league. 

We already had everyones ideal player in Kris Adams- 6'3 runs a 4.4, but yet he wasn't even good enough to make the roster..not to mention got beat out by a BUNCH of "small" guys.

 

But look I'm not saying I wouldn't love to have a Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitz/AJ type wr, but those guys are scarce in the league.

[tydontlie]

Yes, small fast guys can also be hard defend also, but ...1. A lot of DBs aren't super big so they often match up better with the small WRs.  2. We already have some good small quick receivers; but no good "big WRs" which is why many of us want one (to answer your original question).  Having both types of receivers allows the OC to be able to more easily create favorable mismatches depending on what team we are facing and/or what defense they are using.

 

I understand how everyone wants one, but the thing is yall criticize good players (greg jennings) bc they arnt "tall enough". That just doesnt make sense to me..I see all the time on this forum ppl say, "no we don't need another small wr" even if he's a good to great player in the league. 

We already had everyones ideal player in Kris Adams- 6'3 runs a 4.4, but yet he wasn't even good enough to make the roster..not to mention got beat out by a BUNCH of "small" guys.

 

But look I'm not saying I wouldn't love to have a Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitz/AJ type wr, but those guys are scarce in the league.

[coltsguy510]

Jeremy Kelley

[BOTT]

I understand how everyone wants one, but the thing is yall criticize good players (greg jennings) bc they arnt "tall enough". That just doesnt make sense to me..I see all the time on this forum ppl say, "no we don't need another small wr" even if he's a good to great player in the league. 

We already had everyones ideal player in Kris Adams- 6'3 runs a 4.4, but yet he wasn't even good enough to make the roster..not to mention got beat out by a BUNCH of "small" guys.

 

But look I'm not saying I wouldn't love to have a Calvin Johnson/Larry Fitz/AJ type wr, but those guys are scarce in the league.

Kris Adams is everyone's ideal player?

I don't think these bigger/more physical wide receivers are as scarce as u think. Half the teams prob have one...or two like Denver, ATL, and Chicago

[gbrads_rants]

Adams played with no heart.....def didnt use his height or athleticism to his advantage

[MrNLM]

Well we signed that Jeremy Kelley dude who is 6'6''

 

Go ahead and get Barden too! Not likely but, if they were on the field together... let the defense show their hand... Luck bombs one outside or across the middle over everyone's head. Especially with the Colts planning a hybrid power running offense... PA Pass and Luck could make either Barden or Kelley look like heroes!! 

[CardiacColts]

would you really trust barden to be a starter once wayne leaves? with bowe we have two number one wrs and this would give us time to groom ty for him to be our future number one

I completely agree. This isn't about WR depth; we need another potential number 1. Bowe fits the bill in multiple ways. I'm not terribly concerned about the potential 'tude, as he should be more motivated having a probowl QB tossin' him the rock on a playoff caliber team. Also, we have a strong locker room, despite our youth. Bowe brings the size and skill that we need. As for overpaying him, yes. I'm sure all of these FA wideouts will command more than they probably deserve; however, it's all relative. WR's are game changers. giving Luck a talent like Bowe rather than a guy like Avery could be the difference between losing to Baltimore and beating Baltimore (before you go disagreeing, look at how many empty redzone opportunities we had... Nuf' said). I would take an average to good offensive lineman (still an upgrade) with an elite WR for Luck over an elite tackle (one position on the line) with a mediocre WR. Luck can mask deficiencies if we get him the talent. Even Ryan Clady or Jake Long in place of Justice still doesn't change the outcome of the Baltimore game, Bowe could have...

[throwing BBZ]

Well we signed that Jeremy Kelley dude who is 6'6''

 

Go ahead and get Barden too! Not likely but, if they were on the field together... let the defense show their hand... Luck bombs one outside or across the middle over everyone's head. Especially with the Colts planning a hybrid power running offense... PA Pass and Luck could make either Barden or Kelley look like heroes!! 

Notice Grigson signs a very tall guy with WR speed, not one with the speed of an Avg. inside linebacker. Speed rules.

For other posters, IMO, Now isn`t the time, and Bowe isn`t the player the Colts would want for Big $$$.

[dpete]

At this point, we have playmakers at WR. Anything we add above the depth-level Barden type is a luxury. We have too many needs to address luxuries at this point. Just be grateful we have playmakers; some teams don't have any!

As far as the "big target" receivers we "need," isn't that what Fleener and Allen are for? I imagine Fleener's measurables are in the same ballpark as Barden's.

[throwing BBZ]

Based on?

9 one hundredths of a second slower than Bowe over 40 yds. And how much cheaper?

My apology. The 40 speed I had gotten showed 4.68 for Barden. I went back and looked up his combine speed which shows 4.55.

Bowes combine 40 was 4.51. And of course with years of NFL training those numbers are likely different.

Fleenor ran a 4.51.

Polian, in a discussion related to the last draft proposed that 4.51 for a WR was a preferred cutoff line based on the ability to get separation. Obviously good route running, quickness and hands earn bonus points.

We love the #`s, but watching the great footwork/quick feet some have to get off the line, talk of how fast someone is in pads, how good the hands are, and their ability to pick up the ball in flight, are huge factors.

I feel Professionals with lots of game tape will sort this stuff out. No doubt Barden has talent and his time in NY is likely up.

In Grigson & his Team we must trust.

[JorokasXII]

So what big (and productive) receivers will be available next year in FA or the draft? I don't think it's that big of an issue so we might just be better off waiting a year if there's no great choice now.

[BOTT]

So what big (and productive) receivers will be available next year in FA or the draft? I don't think it's that big of an issue so we might just be better off waiting a year if there's no great choice now.

Hakeem Nicks, Eric Decker, Kenny Britt (meh), Anquan Boldin (old)

[Coltivated]

amendola would fit nice in our new wco opinions

[GOCOLTS_ROLLTIDE]

Hopkins is really very, very good. A possible 1st round pick.

But I think he's roughly 6'0"... the Schwamm and I were talking about big, as in tall receivers... Barden is 6'6" and has been kept by the Giants all 4 years of his contract. And played well in the few chances he's been given. I think the Giants are an organization that knows how to find quality WR's... they've been loaded with them for a number of years now. So, Barden has been on my radar as a result. Plus, since he hasn't done that much, he'll be cheap! (always a bonus!)

Hopkins is a tempting receiver... but in a different kind of way...

Hope that clarifies....

you're right he is 6'1 but this guy from afl plenty big enough at 6'6 230

[schwamm]

you're right he is 6'1 but this guy from afl plenty big enough at 6'6 230

It's great to see a tall WR added to the roster, and I hope he significantly outperforms my modest expectations. While I really buy into Grigson's ability to find value players, there are some guys who are brought in as camp guys. As impressive as some of this AFL guy's measurable are, his size and strength alone won't get him to the final roster. He'll need to show some NFL quality route running and hands.

[FalseStart]

007.  008 & 005 (on one of his better days).  If Agent Orange is available...that changes everything.  He is a monster.