Ballard Should Be Our #1 RB

[krunk]

Brown and Arians just can't win in some fans eyes no matter what they do

You don't know how big that statement is!

[krunk]

I think we should keep all 3 backs next year and draft another running back somewhere around the 5th or 6th round to replace Mewelde Moore. He brings absolutely nothing to the table. If we don't draft one late, at least bring another in via FA.

[Hans Moleman]

Brown's never going to get out of some people's dog house, and to them, it really doesn't matter how much he out produces Ballard by. Unless all these posters are Vick's friends and family, I just don't get it. The most productive guy gets the majority of the reps, and that's been Brown. Ballard's played well enough to get into the rotation and earn some touches, but it's just spinning things to fit an agenda to say he's been better than Brown in 2012.

[Gavin]

If we continue with the Zone Blocking (which is what Castonzo, Reitz, Mcglynn and Justice were all drafted or picked into from UDFA in Reitz case) then I see us having further success, That does not mean having a huge running day game in and game out but with Zone Blocking we have a much better chance of running the ball for decent yards in my opinion, Brown can thrive in that scheme. Thats the scheme he was drafted to play in. Coaching 101 you play to your players strengths, not asking them to do things in a game that they have not mastered in practices

[BrentMc11]

Actually Ballard confirmed in an interview that they started running more gap responsibility zone blocking starting last week and the run game has flourished since

I did not see extensive zone blocking yesterday. The two biggest runs were straight up the field...close ed gap seam blocking. I am not in the least against zone blocking. I feel we would see more if everyone was healthy. On the block Link sealed the inside... Castonzo blew his man out...Satele leveled forward as well as Allen 5 yards ahead. (freight train ).....hat on hat blocking that was the prettiest all day.

If you see more on the blocking, feel free to pass along....always appreciate the injury updates and analysis.

[BrentMc11]

If we continue with the Zone Blocking (which is what Castonzo, Reitz, Mcglynn and Justice were all drafted or picked into from UDFA in Reitz case) then I see us having further success, That does not mean having a huge running day game in and game out but with Zone Blocking we have a much better chance of running the ball for decent yards in my opinion, Brown can thrive in that scheme. Thats the scheme he was drafted to play in. Coaching 101 you play to your players strengths, not asking them to do things in a game that they have not mastered in practices

I think we would see more if we could ever stay healthy....I did not mean to dispute you entire thoughts on zone blocking...love some of the run blocking today.....some serious blowouts off of the ball.

[FightLikeSin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Donald Brown isn't the best running back on our team. Personally, I'd like to see Ballard get the start, keep Delone, sign Darren Evans and trade Brown for whatever we could get for him. This offense is not catered towards running the ball outside which is Brown's only style of run. The dancing behind the line stuff doesn't work. Ballard and Carter are great because they pound it up the gut for positive yards almost every time. We need that game in effect to keep the defense honest.

[BrentMc11]

I think we should keep all 3 backs next year and draft another running back somewhere around the 5th or 6th round to replace Mewelde Moore. He brings absolutely nothing to the table. If we don't draft one late, at least bring another in via FA.

I supported Moore as a fourth back and as a 3rd down back....special teamer. His lack of concentration on special teams, the dropped pass, and a hold in the backfield? If he does not play to his strengths...he should not be playing....

Not saying I have given up on him, but he failed at what he does best all in one game...not a good thing for a number 4 back IMO.

[King Colt]

Ballard shoukd get the starting job period. 84 hards yesterday and vshould power, speed and agility. He is a staright on type that is not afraid of contact. He is BETTER than Brown. Case closed.

Nuff said. 100% correctomundo!!!

[IndyTrav]

I think both have played pretty well, and both offer something a little bit different than the other.

But I think a major kudos to the OLine is in order. They have played really well (by our standards).

I'm not a huge Brown guy, but he's played well. And although he has played well and many have argued he has played better than Ballard, I think one thing continues to get lost in the mix. The difference between the twos on the field production is minimal. But Ballard is a rookie in a new role, with extremely limited participation. Where as Brown is going into his 4th season. Brown SHOULD be better, and although he MAY be slightly better, I think Ballard has a ceiling that may be higher.

[BrentMc11]

I think both have played pretty well, and both offer something a little bit different than the other.

But I think a major kudos to the OLine is in order. They have played really well (by our standards).

I'm not a huge Brown guy, but he's played well. And although he has played well and many have argued he has played better than Ballard, I think one thing continues to get lost in the mix. The difference between the twos on the field production is minimal. But Ballard is a rookie in a new role, with extremely limited participation. Where as Brown is going into his 4th season. Brown SHOULD be better, and although he MAY be slightly better, I think Ballard has a ceiling that may be higher.

Great post Trav! Seeing other lines in this league and continuing to just say ours is the worst is a joke to me. We have what we have....and the guys are playing hard....Can we play much better? Heck to the YES! That said...we are playing better as we get healthier...Reitz even contibuted yesterday as the 'extra' blocker. Good to get him some reps!!!

[pacolts56]

Could watch this for the rest of the day

Me too....

And for fossils like me who are old enough to remember...I couldn't help thinking of this....

[pacolts56]

To say the day of the feature back is in the past in the NFL, I give you:

Adrian Peterson

Arian Foster

Chris Johnson

MJD

Matt Forte

Frank Gore

Marshawn Lynch

Ray Rice

Darren McFadden

I am sure there are a bunch of other teams that wished they had an Peterson, Foster, MJD, Rice, etc. to be their feature back.

They're all excellent RBs, or have been excellent RBs, no one can argue that.

But how many Super Bowl rings....or even Super Bowl appearances exist from that list, even adding Shady McCoy and Jamaal Charles to it?

Indeed, we won our 2007 Super Bowl with....and it could be argued....THANKS to our own "RB-by-committee" approach. The not-so-secret ingredient was our O-line, which was pretty solid that year before Glenn retired and Scott left in free agency. We've struggled there ever since.

Our current O-line edition run-blocked well when we needed it yesterday....but in all likelihood will still need upgrades. It was a great win for us and I'm not trying to be a killjoy, but it was, after all, the Titans...not the 49ers or the Bears defense out there.

No one is a bigger proponent of a solid run game and a balanced offense than I am....but I'd rather achieve it by investing cap dollars across the O-line than in one of those marquee RBs because there are have been a considerable amount of costly injuries to players on that list as well, and good consistent run-blocking can produce enough of a ground game with the more affordable committee approach, IMO.

It's a very tricky formula to achieve....hopefully Grigson can pull it off.

[DoomOf21]

They're all excellent RBs, or have been excellent RBs, no one can argue that.

But how many Super Bowl rings....or even Super Bowl appearances exist from that list, even adding Shady McCoy and Jamaal Charles to it?

Indeed, we won our 2007 Super Bowl with....and it could be argued....THANKS to our own "RB-by-committee" approach. The not-so-secret ingredient was our O-line, which was pretty solid that year before Glenn retired and Scott left in free agency. We've struggled there ever since.

So as far as I can remember, we had the opportunity to draft MJD but instead we drafted Addai. Would you have rather had a couple seasons of MJD plus Rhodes instead? Its not an either or situation. It is one were some backs are universally seen as better and more talented than the rest of the league.

So would you have a handful of running backs, where one of them is in the top tier in the league or would you want a handful of average backs?

[Corndog]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Donald Brown isn't the best running back on our team. Personally, I'd like to see Ballard get the start, keep Delone, sign Darren Evans and trade Brown for whatever we could get for him. This offense is not catered towards running the ball outside which is Brown's only style of run. The dancing behind the line stuff doesn't work. Ballard and Carter are great because they pound it up the gut for positive yards almost every time. We need that game in effect to keep the defense honest.

While I think Brown is more valueable than you, I do think Ballard is the more valueble back because of one thing, consistency. There will be games where Brown has more yards just due to a few big gains, but Brown gets tackled behind the line or at the line of srimmage too much to be a starter. While Ballard can regularly get three yards a play, even when nothing is there. Personally, I like the tandem though. Use Ballard to start games off and wear down the interior line and put Brown in later when the line is worn down. Brown is nice to have, because of his speed and if he finds a hole he can make big plays. Keeping Brown depends more on what his demands are to stay with the Colts, if the price is right keep him, if not, move on.

[mvbighead]

While I think Brown is more valueable than you, I do think Ballard is the more valueble back because of one thing, consistency. There will be games where Brown has more yards just due to a few big gains, but Brown gets tackled behind the line or at the line of srimmage too much to be a starter. While Ballard can regularly get three yards a play, even when nothing is there. Personally, I like the tandem though. Use Ballard to start games off and wear down the interior line and put Brown in later when the line is worn down. Brown is nice to have, because of his speed and if he finds a hole he can make big plays. Keeping Brown depends more on what his demands are to stay with the Colts, if the price is right keep him, if not, move on.

At this point, I'd say that Ballard gets stopped behind the line about as much as Brown does. The only exception was this last game. But that aside, early on, Ballard was getting stuffed many times.

If you go to NFL.com, look at Ballard's game by game stats. In every case, if you take out his top run, and then calculate an average, it is not better than Brown. At this point, Brown is the better run. And it's not because I like him more, it's simply because he is. I do believe that we'll let Brown go when that time comes, and hand the reigns over to Vick. And I want to see that happen. But right now, Brown is our better back. Hopefully, when Ballard has a season or two of experience, we'll have our line solidified.

[mvbighead]

I think we should keep all 3 backs next year and draft another running back somewhere around the 5th or 6th round to replace Mewelde Moore. He brings absolutely nothing to the table. If we don't draft one late, at least bring another in via FA.

My only disagreement here is that Moore comes from Arians' system. I am willing to bet there is some behind the scenes stuff where Moore is helping to get our current RBs up to speed with what the coaches are looking for.

But next year, I fully expect to see Moore gone and a new youngster waiting in the wings. I'd also suspect that the guy we bring in will be a late round selection, and a likely candidate to backup Ballard in the next 3-4 years. That's purely hypothesis, but I think we'll get some good use out of Ballard over the next 4 years.

[pacolts56]

So as far as I can remember, we had the opportunity to draft MJD but instead we drafted Addai. Would you have rather had a couple seasons of MJD plus Rhodes instead? Its not an either or situation. It is one were some backs are universally seen as better and more talented than the rest of the league.

So would you have a handful of running backs, where one of them is in the top tier in the league or would you want a handful of average backs?

Under the Draft Day circumstances where we took Addai over MJD it's a very fair question. We managed to win a SB with Addai as a rookie...so the question becomes "would we have won more than one with MJD"?

We'll never know....but I suspect that behind our O-line, once Tarik Glenn and Jake Scott departed, Jones-Drew probably wouldn't have had the level of success he's enjoyed in Jacksonville. On the other hand....MJD might have pounded out some key playoff short yardage situations (versus San Diego and New Orleans) that we failed to convert and which contributed heavily to our early playoff exits. So you bring up an excellent question.

But in the here and now, the Colts have enough areas left to address....including OG/RT....to where a marquee RB and the cap dollars he'd cost would be the wrong priority.

Now....if we can unearth a stud RB in rounds 2-7 on Draft Day that eventually proves himself to be worthy of an every down workload, then great. And that HAS happened for other teams, with Terrell Davis being the most notable example.

But IMO....the O-line should take priority in finishing off our offensive rebuild.

[FightLikeSin]

While I think Brown is more valueable than you, I do think Ballard is the more valueble back because of one thing, consistency. There will be games where Brown has more yards just due to a few big gains, but Brown gets tackled behind the line or at the line of srimmage too much to be a starter. While Ballard can regularly get three yards a play, even when nothing is there. Personally, I like the tandem though. Use Ballard to start games off and wear down the interior line and put Brown in later when the line is worn down. Brown is nice to have, because of his speed and if he finds a hole he can make big plays. Keeping Brown depends more on what his demands are to stay with the Colts, if the price is right keep him, if not, move on.

I think Brown could be effective with a team that has a solid O-line in place. I don't believe his style is right for our offense as it stands today. We need the ground and pound, up the gut, north/south runners. I don't dislike Brown. He has had his moments. But if we could get value out of him while he's still young and relatively healthy...we should. I don't believe Brown could help us win any more than Ballard or Carter.

[Gavin]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Donald Brown isn't the best running back on our team. Personally, I'd like to see Ballard get the start, keep Delone, sign Darren Evans and trade Brown for whatever we could get for him. This offense is not catered towards running the ball outside which is Brown's only style of run. The dancing behind the line stuff doesn't work. Ballard and Carter are great because they pound it up the gut for positive yards almost every time. We need that game in effect to keep the defense honest.

why would we resign Evans when he couldn't make in through cuts the first time? Or how about Browns run between the tackles at the 13:30 mark of OT for 5 yards or how about Browns 17 yard run in OT with just over 14 minutes to go right up the gut? I can go on, When Brown AND Ballard (because they BOTH do it) dance behind the Line its because the O Line has not opened up a consistent hole, Guys like MJD or Foster would be nothing if they did not have an O Line that could block

[FightLikeSin]

why would we resign Evans when he couldn't make in through cuts the first time? Or how about Browns run between the tackles at the 13:30 mark of OT for 5 yards or how about Browns 17 yard run in OT with just over 14 minutes to go right up the gut? I can go on, When Brown AND Ballard (because they BOTH do it) dance behind the Line its because the O Line has not opened up a consistent hole, Guys like MJD or Foster would be nothing if they did not have an O Line that could block

it wasn't really to say we would resign Evans I guess. He's with the Titans now anyway right? Just saying it would be to fill a roster spot.

Yes you can go on and on but at the end of the day, Vick Ballard has just as much to offer as Brown. My point was that value-wise, it makes more sense to keep the younger RB who isn't a one-trick pony and sell high on Brown. So far, I really like the Ballard/Carter combo. They compliment each other well. They get the tough yards up the middle.

Even though Ballard has only been the starter in 3 games, he's only 113 yards behind Brown. If your argument is that Brown is the better running back, I'd love to hear the argument. But that's not really my point. It's about the value that we could get for him and how that effects us as a team. For me...the loss would be minimal. Certainly couldn't put a worse RB out there for pass protection than Brown and Ballard seems to be effective as a receiver as well.

[krunk]

why would we resign Evans when he couldn't make in through cuts the first time? Or how about Browns run between the tackles at the 13:30 mark of OT for 5 yards or how about Browns 17 yard run in OT with just over 14 minutes to go right up the gut? I can go on, When Brown AND Ballard (because they BOTH do it) dance behind the Line its because the O Line has not opened up a consistent hole, Guys like MJD or Foster would be nothing if they did not have an O Line that could block

Darren Evans? What was he thinking with that recommendation? Hmmmmmm

[Mouthfire]

it wasn't really to say we would resign Evans I guess. He's with the Titans now anyway right? Just saying it would be to fill a roster spot.

Yes you can go on and on but at the end of the day, Vick Ballard has just as much to offer as Brown. My point was that value-wise, it makes more sense to keep the younger RB who isn't a one-trick pony and sell high on Brown. So far, I really like the Ballard/Carter combo. They compliment each other well. They get the tough yards up the middle.

Even though Ballard has only been the starter in 3 games, he's only 113 yards behind Brown. If your argument is that Brown is the better running back, I'd love to hear the argument. But that's not really my point. It's about the value that we could get for him and how that effects us as a team. For me...the loss would be minimal. Certainly couldn't put a worse RB out there for pass protection than Brown and Ballard seems to be effective as a receiver as well.

Well, given that neither running back is getting the traditional "20 carries per game", that 113 yards difference is pretty huge.

The more accurate indicator would then be yards per carry. Donald Brown is getting 4.3 YPC. Vick Ballard is getting 3.4 YPC.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I didn't like brown when we had addai. But honestly I think he should be starter. Ballard is a good runner and a good pace changer. Remember Addai and Dom? That only lasted a year. Id like to see the same thing happen with Brown and Ballard.

[FightLikeSin]

Well, given that neither running back is getting the traditional "20 carries per game", that 113 yards difference is pretty huge.

The more accurate indicator would then be yards per carry. Donald Brown is getting 4.3 YPC. Vick Ballard is getting 3.4 YPC.

So the reason Brown is irreplaceable is because the ROOKIE 5th ROUND DRAFT PICK behind him pick gets 0.9 yards less per carry? Impressive...

It's probably not a good indicator for a 4 year vet, picked in the first round, when his stats are matched (in respect to game starts) by a guy like Ballard.

[BrentMc11]

I have a question: Would Donald Brown had made the effort that Ballard did by literally giving his body up on the TD? I don't think he has it in him myself...and remember....I like them both... :td:

I do not know about anyone else, but I just cannot get enough of that video of Ballard's TD! :colts:

[Mouthfire]

So the reason Brown is irreplaceable is because the ROOKIE 5th ROUND DRAFT PICK behind him pick gets 0.9 yards less per carry? Impressive...

It's probably not a good indicator for a 4 year vet, picked in the first round, when his stats are matched (in respect to game starts) by a guy like Ballard.

Essentially a whole yard per carry difference is pretty significant. That's about 300 yards difference over the course of a year, given a normal 20 carry per game load.

That's the difference between a ~1000 yd rusher (which is a dime a dozen nowadays) vs a ~1300 yd rusher, which would be a top 5 RB in 2011.

In any event, I never said Brown is irreplaceable. I just said Brown is outperforming Ballard, which is true. And he's been doing it all year.

[FightLikeSin]

Essentially a whole yard per carry difference is pretty significant. That's about 300 yards difference over the course of a year, given a normal 20 carry per game load.

That's the difference between a ~1000 yd rusher (which is a dime a dozen nowadays) vs a ~1300 yd rusher, which would be a top 5 RB in 2011.

In any event, I never said Brown is irreplaceable. I just said Brown is outperforming Ballard, which is true. And he's been doing it all year.

Ballard has not had the same amount of opportunities as Brown and would only need one big run to make up the difference on the YPC. It's really not that big of a difference. My mindset on the argument is trading Brown for a draft pick would not have any impact on our offense. Ballard can do just as well and we'd gain value from it.

[gbrads_rants]

I dont get why this is gettin' beaten into the ground....RB by committee is what we're doing and it's what works in today's NFL...We have an awesome committee....I was not shocked that Moore was cut because its clear we have what we need to beat an DLine down...

[Mouthfire]

Ballard has not had the same amount of opportunities as Brown and would only need one big run to make up the difference on the YPC. It's really not that big of a difference. My mindset on the argument is trading Brown for a draft pick would not have any impact on our offense. Ballard can do just as well and we'd gain value from it.

That's not quite true. Brown has only had slightly more carries than Ballard.

Brown is averaging 4.3 YPC over 74 carries for the year.

Ballard is averaging 3.4 YPC over 61 carries for the year.

[FightLikeSin]

That's not quite true. Brown has only had slightly more carries than Ballard.

Brown is averaging 4.3 YPC over 74 carries for the year.

Ballard is averaging 3.4 YPC over 61 carries for the year.

Uhhh...you just blew my mind man! You can't tell me i'm wrong and right in the same sentence. It messes with me.

Something is either true or its not true. The fact that Ballard has had less opportunities is indeed very much true.

13 less carries is a pretty big gap considering Ballard is averaging about 8 attempts per game. More than enough to make up the difference of 0.9 yards.

[Brooklyn Colt]

It's amazing how one play can change everybody's mindset..before the game everybody was hoping D. Brown would hurry up to come back and play.. now after the Ballard touchdown we're willing to trade him for a draft pick which wouldn't be more than a 4th round pick..smh you guys are fickle..

[Mouthfire]

Uhhh...you just blew my mind man! You can't tell me i'm wrong and right in the same sentence. It messes with me.

Something is either true or its not true. The fact that Ballard has had less opportunities is indeed very much true.

13 less carries is a pretty big gap considering Ballard is averaging about 8 attempts per game. More than enough to make up the difference of 0.9 yards.

Bah... semantics. I could say Brown had 100 carries and Ballard had 99 carries, and you'd still scream at the top of the world that "Brown is being favored!!! Unfair to Ballard!!!"

[FightLikeSin]

Bah... semantics. I could say Brown had 100 carries and Ballard had 99 carries, and you'd still scream at the top of the world that "Brown is being favored!!! Unfair to Ballard!!!"

No, I'd be willing to accept the facts. Have I ever once said that Ballard was better than Brown? I think my point has been that Ballard is just as good as Brown when you consider how much less opportunity he's been given. Then you bring up the fact that Brown is a 4 year vet who is supposed to be in his prime and Ballard is just a scrub 5th round rookie...then it's just kind of embarrassing.

You wanna talk semantics huh? Who was the one trying to take plays away to justify their argument?

[Mouthfire]

Look, all jesting aside, I even took things away to make things more in Ballards favor. It still didn't help him out that much. Brown still beat him by a whole 1.0 yard per carry.

And really, I have nothing against Ballard. I think he's a fine back. I just don't think he's performing better than Brown (big duh), and the evidence bears it out.

[FightLikeSin]

Look, all jesting aside, I even took things away to make things more in Ballards favor. It still didn't help him out that much. Brown still beat him by a whole 1.0 yard per carry.

And really, I have nothing against Ballard. I think he's a fine back. I just don't think he's performing better than Brown, and the evidence bears it out.

The problem is you are acting like they have each been playing the game for the same amount of snaps. That's not accurate, thus not fair to compare.

Stats are stats and thats fine. I like Ballard as a RB. he gets up the field in a hurry and puts in major effort. See my profile pic for evidence. If that was Brown catching the pass from Luck at the end of the game, he would have probably stopped...done the "Gangnam Style" dance and gotten tackled at the chorus.