The Fleener Project

[HtownColt]

Here is a good write up on Fleener vs the Jags

NO PROMOTIONAL POSTING ON THE SITE2012-archives/september/all-22-film-review-spotlight-coby-fleener.html

[chrisfarley]

didn't hear him mention alligator arms. perhaps i'm seeing things.

[Smitto]

I agree with this, fleener has t been impressive... But thats probably because of luck as well.

Needless to say he needs to step his game up especially against a team like the packers

[MSColtsFan]

With two big, athletic TEs, taken so high in the draft, I am surprised we haven't seen more long seam routes, setting up size advantages with either Allen or Fleener. Maybe I have too many Dilger/Pollard/Clark replays running in my head, but I really thought we'd see more use of those two targets, over the middle, stretching out LBs or getting bad DB matchups. I don't want any TE leading the Colts in receptions, but I sure would like to see more use of the middle of the field, more productivity from both Fleener and Allen.

[krunk]

With two big, athletic TEs, taken so high in the draft, I am surprised we haven't seen more long seam routes, setting up size advantages with either Allen or Fleener. Maybe I have too many Dilger/Pollard/Clark replays running in my head, but I really thought we'd see more use of those two targets, over the middle, stretching out LBs or getting bad DB matchups. I don't want any TE leading the Colts in receptions, but I sure would like to see more use of the middle of the field, more productivity from both Fleener and Allen.

It's like Mercedes Lewis in Jacksonville. They want to throw to him, but they haven't been able to because of the offensive line issues. We are somewhat in the same boat until we get the offensive line issues settled, which I think we are getting close being at least decent. We'll see more out of both of them(Allen and Fleener) as the season progresses.

[gspdx]

I'm not saying that Fleener is killing it out there, but based on the writer's number of other rookie tight ends over the years Fleener is doing pretty good in the receiving area. He has 8 catches for 98 yards, better than 10 yards per catch. If you just think he stays at that level for the rest of the year that is 42 catches and over 400 yards. That's not too shabby. Improvement in blocking is essential and learning more about his craft will come in time.

Allen has 6 catches for 38 yards, just over 6 ypc, in comparison.

[arwalt86]

Maybe I have too many Dilger/Pollard/Clark replays running in my head.

Those were the days!

[HtownColt]

I'm not saying that Fleener is killing it out there, but based on the writer's number of other rookie tight ends over the years Fleener is doing pretty good in the receiving area. He has 8 catches for 98 yards, better than 10 yards per catch. If you just think he stays at that level for the rest of the year that is 42 catches and over 400 yards. That's not too shabby. Improvement in blocking is essential and learning more about his craft will come in time.

Allen has 6 catches for 38 yards, just over 6 ypc, in comparison.

after week 1 Fleener has 2 catches 12yards and like 4 drops

[jvan1973]

after week 1 Fleener has 2 catches 12yards and like 4 drops

what does that have to do with week 5

[Esquire59]

I remember how high I was on Dallas Clark in 2003. Love Ferentz and watch a lot of Iowa. So, I knew what Clark brought to the team. Folks were furious (perhaps justifiably so) that we didn't go defense in the first round. Then, Dallas came in and was pretty awful his first two years, including an odd leg fracture. Even into years 3-4, Dallas frankly was just a bit "dense" and had trouble picking up the offense (as many of you will recall from his own quotes and 18 "correcting" him many a time). By 2006-2008, Dallas was, IMHO, the best all around TE in the NFL for that three year period. Fleener has more athleticism than Dallas. Give him some time folks. He's got a master's degree from Stanford. He's going to pick things up. It may take 2-4 more years. I expect Coby (or Toby) Fleener to be an elite Tight End for years to come. I also think Duane Allen will be right there with him.

[braveheartcolt]

Judging rookies after 3 games is insane. Give them all a chance to learn. If they are not good enough, have enough faith in our management to cut them or train them up. All this early 'critique' is pointless.

[HtownColt]

its good to see Allen starting to get more passing plays, his role is changing a little more every week. being that all he did was block almost every play he was in in week 1.

[indy1888]

I'm not saying that Fleener is killing it out there, but based on the writer's number of other rookie tight ends over the years Fleener is doing pretty good in the receiving area. He has 8 catches for 98 yards, better than 10 yards per catch. If you just think he stays at that level for the rest of the year that is 42 catches and over 400 yards. That's not too shabby. Improvement in blocking is essential and learning more about his craft will come in time.

Allen has 6 catches for 38 yards, just over 6 ypc, in comparison.

But Allen is not really supposed to be the better receiver out of the 2, Fleener is. But i would argue that so far not only is Allen the better blocker, he is the better receiver as well.

Allen has made more game impacting receptions then Fleener to this point. One for a TD on 3rd down, another on 3rd down in the Jags game where he was drilled as soon as he turned upfield and still held onto the ball. Fleener dropped a ball on 3rd down in the Jags game. I would like to see how many targets each has but i'm sure Fleener has more to this point. I'm also willing to bet that Fleener is probably either leading the league or close to it in drops per times he has been targeted.

[braveheartcolt]

But Allen is not really supposed to be the better receiver out of the 2, Fleener is. But i would argue that so far not only is Allen the better blocker, he is the better receiver as well.

Allen has made more game impacting receptions then Fleener to this point. One for a TD on 3rd down, another on 3rd down in the Jags game where he was drilled as soon as he turned upfield and still held onto the ball. Fleener dropped a ball on 3rd down in the Jags game. I would like to see how many targets each has but i'm sure Fleener has more to this point. I'm also willing to bet that Fleener is probably either leading the league or close to it in drops per times he has been targeted.

All objectivity went out of the window after your opening sentence. A 3 yard catch at your own 20 yard line, which sustains a drive which leads to a score can be just as impacting as any other 3rd down catch, drilled or not. You prefer Allen to Fleener (many do), but please don't massage the numbers to prove your point, especially when they are relatively intangible. Happy to have this discussion after 10 games or so.

[manningstheman]

I'm not saying that Fleener is killing it out there, but based on the writer's number of other rookie tight ends over the years Fleener is doing pretty good in the receiving area. He has 8 catches for 98 yards, better than 10 yards per catch. If you just think he stays at that level for the rest of the year that is 42 catches and over 400 yards. That's not too shabby. Improvement in blocking is essential and learning more about his craft will come in time.

Allen has 6 catches for 38 yards, just over 6 ypc, in comparison.

how many drops does he have. I have seen a few myself.right in his hands.

[indy1888]

All objectivity went out of the window after your opening sentence. A 3 yard catch at your own 20 yard line, which sustains a drive which leads to a score can be just as impacting as any other 3rd down catch, drilled or not. You prefer Allen to Fleener (many do), but please don't massage the numbers to prove your point, especially when they are relatively intangible. Happy to have this discussion after 10 games or so.

Please explain what numbers i'm massaging?

Yes, i'm fully aware ANY reception on 3rd down is big. I'm also aware drops on 3rd down are big.

Do you know how many receptions Fleener has on 3rd down? How about Allen? Look it up and get back with me, i want to make sure you don't think i'm "massaging" any numbers.

[NewColtsFan]

after week 1 Fleener has 2 catches 12yards and like 4 drops

Actually, after week #1, Fleener had 6 catches for 82 yards.

http://scores.espn.g...ameId=320909003

And I don't think he's had a bad case of the drops since the regular season started. I don't recall any large number of drops in the regular season. Could be wrong, and that's one stat I don't have. If anyone knows of a website where that's kept track of, please let us know...

Folks.... we've played 3 whole games. Three. And in the first, Fleener had 6 catches. Honestly, I wasn't all that impressed with the linked-story that started this thread. But, maybe that's just me.

[indy1888]

Actually, after week #1, Fleener had 6 catches for 82 yards.

http://scores.espn.g...ameId=320909003

And I don't think he's had a bad case of the drops since the regular season started. I don't recall any large number of drops in the regular season. Could be wrong, and that's one stat I don't have. If anyone knows of a website where that's kept track of, please let us know...

Folks.... we've played 3 whole games. Three. And in the first, Fleener had 6 catches. Honestly, I wasn't all that impressed with the linked-story that started this thread. But, maybe that's just me.

What he was saying is that since week 1, Fleener only has 2 catches. He is right, as he had 6 in the first game and only 8 total.

And Fleener indeed has had a case of the drops. Officially they list him with 3 on target drops, but you have to remember he isn't targeted very much to begin with. For instance, Calvin Johnson also has 3 drops, but look at how many times he is targeted compared to Fleener.

[HtownColt]

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14900/coby-fleener

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/14901/dwayne-allen

[braveheartcolt]

Please explain what numbers i'm massaging?

Yes, i'm fully aware ANY reception on 3rd down is big. I'm also aware drops on 3rd down are big.

Do you know how many receptions Fleener has on 3rd down? How about Allen? Look it up and get back with me, i want to make sure you don't think i'm "massaging" any numbers.

I did say after 10 games or so, but as you asked nicely.......Coby has 3x as may 1st down receptions, 3x as many yards (almost), 3x as many 20yd+ catches, 4x as many YAC, probably 3x as many drops and 1 less TD. So that, my friend is why your use of YOUR statistical analysis does not represent the wider picture. It is way to early to tell. Fair?

[indy1888]

I did say after 10 games or so, but as you asked nicely.......Coby has 3x as may 1st down receptions, 3x as many yards (almost), 3x as many 20yd+ catches, 4x as many YAC, probably 3x as many drops and 1 less TD. So that, my friend is why your use of YOUR statistical analysis does not represent the wider picture. It is way to early to tell. Fair?

The wider picture? Allen has made 4 of his 6 catches on 3rd down to sustain drives. One went for a TD. Fleener has 8 catches, 6 coming in one game and half of those came on one drive in a 2 minute drill. He has no TD's and has not caught a single ball to keep a drive alive, he has dropped a few though. So no, i think my analysis represent things pretty well. The eyeball test does a pretty good job too.

[braveheartcolt]

The wider picture? Allen has made 4 of his 6 catches on 3rd down to sustain drives. One went for a TD. Fleener has 8 catches, 6 coming in one game and half of those came on one drive in a 2 minute drill. He has no TD's and has not caught a single ball to keep a drive alive, he has dropped a few though. So no, i think my analysis represent things pretty well. The eyeball test does a pretty good job too.

I agree. The eyeball test tells me you are a Fleener hater, and have no desire to listen to reason. If Fleener has three 20+ yard catches, I struggle to believe these did not move the chains, which would be my definition of keeping a drive alive.....unless we gave up some big penalty yards on all 3 of them. Go check your facts please. Support your man all you want, but don't fabricate stats to diss others. In any case, why do they need to be in direct competition with each other, they play for the same team. You can like more than one player you know. Unless you have issues with Fleener?

[NewColtsFan]

http://espn.go.com/n...00/coby-fleener

http://espn.go.com/n...01/dwayne-allen

I know what the stats say about catches and yards.... where is the stat that shows 'drops'....

I didn't see that anywhere.... perhaps I missed it... but I sure didn't see it....

[weslo1812]

Both of these guys are gonna be good TE's or TE/WR In Fleeners case. Yes so far Fleener has been a little more behind the eight ball than Allen. But coming out of College Allen was actually the more polished and complete Tightend. Even though alot of experts and fans were higher on Fleener because o his speed size and catching ability and solid route running. I think Fleener is going to come around soon it's still early in the season, like others have said it only been three games so we cant get too serious and critical about this now. He needs to setttle down and pay more atttetion to what he's doing and execute. He's gotta have better Attention to Detail, all the small small things make a difference in the NFL. I dont think it an ability problem with him I think its mental right now. Its in his head. Well see where he's at by week 14 or so. Another thing, the Article stated how Allen had been in on alot more pass plays than Fleener, well that would probably be becuase of the below average offenive line play. In other words it was for blocking purposes mainly. Our offensive line already like last year has had three different starting combinations and proabably gonna have a fourth different one this weekend. I dont think we will really see these guys hit thier full potential untill that offenive line improves and gives luck time to find them. Especially with Fleener and his ability to stretch the middle of the field. Its just gonna take a little longer than we anticipated to get it all together so we can really use these guys effectivley.

[JoKeR]

Allen is playing a perfect role for the Colts. He blocks well, has good hands, but * not very fast *. Fleener is fast and more of a receiver, he will be targeted more period. To not have Allen blocking half the time would be a waste of his abilities and his blocking is what keeps defenses guessing what he's going to do.

[indy1888]

I agree. The eyeball test tells me you are a Fleener hater, and have no desire to listen to reason. If Fleener has three 20+ yard catches, I struggle to believe these did not move the chains, which would be my definition of keeping a drive alive.....unless we gave up some big penalty yards on all 3 of them. Go check your facts please. Support your man all you want, but don't fabricate stats to diss others. In any case, why do they need to be in direct competition with each other, they play for the same team. You can like more than one player you know. Unless you have issues with Fleener?

Sorry but you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. I had no problem with Fleener being drafted but he hasn't played well and Allen has played better. If you can't accept facts, sorry.

And come on you can't be serious with this argument of how 2 20 yard completions are just as big as Allen's catches on 3rd down. For one thing, there is a heck of a lot of more pressure on a 3rd down play, if you don't catch the ball you punt. That is not the case on any other down. You can drop a pass on first down and still keep a drive alive, that doesn't happen on 3rd down. So Fleener grabbing a 20 yard completion on first down in a 2 minute drill against a soft defense is not quite the same as a catch on 3rd down where a drop gives the ball to the other side. When Fleener had a chance to make a catch on 3rd down to keep a drive alive against the Jags do you know what happened? He dropped the ball.

And please remember this all started because you claimed i lied about stats or made them up to say Allen was making more game impacting plays then Fleener. He clearly is and the stats back it up, so don't tell me to check the facts. It's hilarious you are claiming i am "fabricating" numbers when that is actually what you are doing. You are basically taking one drive in the whole season and trying to say Fleener has outplayed Allen. Simply hilarious.

[indy1888]

I know what the stats say about catches and yards.... where is the stat that shows 'drops'....

I didn't see that anywhere.... perhaps I missed it... but I sure didn't see it....

http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/leaders.asp?range=nfl&type=receiving&rank=232

[NewColtsFan]

http://stats.washing...eiving&rank=232

Thanks, Indy.... appreciate that....

3 drops in 3 games. For whatever reason, I'm not too worried about Coby and the drops.... at least, not yet.

I'm more concerned as to why Coby and Dwayne are targeted so infrequently so far... and I know I've been arguing that they're doing a lot of blocking... I get that... but I still would have expected a few more targets between them by now...

Either way.... it's just 3 games... less than a quarter of a season.... so much of the season still remains....

[indy1888]

Thanks, Indy.... appreciate that....

3 drops in 3 games. For whatever reason, I'm not too worried about Coby and the drops.... at least, not yet.

I'm more concerned as to why Coby and Dwayne are targeted so infrequently so far... and I know I've been arguing that they're doing a lot of blocking... I get that... but I still would have expected a few more targets between them by now...

Either way.... it's just 3 games... less than a quarter of a season.... so much of the season still remains....

I don't think 3 drops is bad normally, but considering how few chances he has had, it certainly is not good. There are some darn good players on that list, but they have probably all been targeted a good number of times too.

[Superman]

And come on you can't be serious with this argument of how 2 20 yard completions are just as big as Allen's catches on 3rd down.

Depends on whether Allen's catches produced first downs or not. By my count, he has three third down catches, and only one converted.

Another thing, I might prefer a 20 yard reception on first down to a 4 yard reception on 3rd and 4. I definitely prefer a 20 yard reception on first down to a 4 yard reception on 3rd and 5. That 20 yard catch isn't quite as crucial, but it can mean the difference between a punt and a field goal. It can keep you out of third down to begin with. It can change the way the defense plays the pass and free up room for the run. Big plays often lead often lead to scoring opportunities, and Fleener's did. Third down catches aren't always more productive than first down catches.

When Fleener had a chance to make a catch on 3rd down to keep a drive alive against the Jags do you know what happened? He dropped the ball.

He's a rookie. He's going to drop some passes, even on third down. So will Allen. And it sucks, but it's the nature of the beast.

You are basically taking one drive in the whole season and trying to say Fleener has outplayed Allen.

I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but I think the point was that Fleener hasn't been as awful as you're making him out to be. Not that he's necessarily outplaying Allen.

[indy1888]

Depends on whether Allen's catches produced first downs or not. By my count, he has three third down catches, and only one converted.

Another thing, I might prefer a 20 yard reception on first down to a 4 yard reception on 3rd and 4. I definitely prefer a 20 yard reception on first down to a 4 yard reception on 3rd and 5. That 20 yard catch isn't quite as crucial, but it can mean the difference between a punt and a field goal. It can keep you out of third down to begin with. It can change the way the defense plays the pass and free up room for the run. Big plays often lead often lead to scoring opportunities, and Fleener's did. Third down catches aren't always more productive than first down catches.

He's a rookie. He's going to drop some passes, even on third down. So will Allen. And it sucks, but it's the nature of the beast.

I don't mean to speak for anyone else, but I think the point was that Fleener hasn't been as awful as you're making him out to be. Not that he's necessarily outplaying Allen.

Allen has 4 3rd down catches. One went for a TD and one went for a first down in the Jags game. So there is 2 converted right there without even going back and searching. So he's converted at least half of those catches to either points or first downs. To this point, Fleener has not converted anything on 3rd down, he's actually been a total non factor outside of one drive in the opening game. No, he may not be terrible, but Allen is a better player right now and has impacted more games then Fleener both in receiving and blocking.

And my opinion is that his drops are a little bigger issue then you want to make it out to be. Yes, he's a rookie, but 3 drops in his limited number of targets is borderline horrendous.

[NewColtsFan]

Just to get it on the record, and this may -- or may not -- be a subject that others here agree with, so maybe this goes no where...

But one concern that I have with our passing game is how infrequently our receivers are found to be wide open. So many times when Andrew throws to a receiver, the pass is battled down by a DB/LB, or even when it's caught, there is very tight coverage.

I confess I've been expecting more open receivers than what I've seen in three weeks.

Now, I haven't seen this comment anywhere else. So maybe no one agrees? Dunno? But for an offense that hangs it hat on the passing game, I would have thought the offense would have led to more open receivers....

Just one man's opinion....

[Superman]

Allen has 4 3rd down catches. One went for a TD and one went for a first down in the Jags game. So there is 2 converted right there without even going back and searching. So he's converted at least half of those catches to either points or first downs.

My bad, I forgot about the touchdown. Still, we're working with such a small sample size that one play takes him from 33% to 50% on third down conversions. I think maybe we're parsing this a little too finely.

To this point, Fleener has not converted anything on 3rd down, he's actually been a total non factor outside of one drive in the opening game. No, he may not be terrible, but Allen is a better player right now and has impacted more games then Fleener both in receiving and blocking.

If we're being literal, no, Fleener hasn't "been a total non factor outside of one drive". He had another 20+ yard catch in the Bears game that put us in the red zone, and then Luck threw a pick. Plus, he has another four catches outside of those two drives. I don't know that it's fair or wise to throw those catches out simply because they didn't come on third down.

And that's what I was saying: Allen might be playing better, and I don't know that there's anything wrong with that. During the first half of 2010, Aaron Hernandez was playing significantly better than Rob Gronkowski. It turns out the Pats have two really good tight ends, regardless.

And my opinion is that his drops are a little bigger issue then you want to make it out to be. Yes, he's a rookie, but 3 drops in his limited number of targets is borderline horrendous.

It's such a limited number of targets that it's really hard to think one thing or another about what the drops mean. He's a rookie, his role on the team is not clearly defined, he's playing with a rookie quarterback, and the offensive line causes trouble for every skill player on offense. "Borderline horrendous" is borderline hyperbolic, with only three games gone in his rookie season. He has 16 targets. Three drops is not comforting, but I'm just saying that it's not quite time to spray his hands with Stick'Em yet, either.

[indy1888]

My bad, I forgot about the touchdown. Still, we're working with such a small sample size that one play takes him from 33% to 50% on third down conversions. I think maybe we're parsing this a little too finely.

If we're being literal, no, Fleener hasn't "been a total non factor outside of one drive". He had another 20+ yard catch in the Bears game that put us in the red zone, and then Luck threw a pick. Plus, he has another four catches outside of those two drives. I don't know that it's fair or wise to throw those catches out simply because they didn't come on third down.

And that's what I was saying: Allen might be playing better, and I don't know that there's anything wrong with that. During the first half of 2010, Aaron Hernandez was playing significantly better than Rob Gronkowski. It turns out the Pats have two really good tight ends, regardless.

It's such a limited number of targets that it's really hard to think one thing or another about what the drops mean. He's a rookie, his role on the team is not clearly defined, he's playing with a rookie quarterback, and the offensive line causes trouble for every skill player on offense. "Borderline horrendous" is borderline hyperbolic, with only three games gone in his rookie season. He has 16 targets. Three drops is not comforting, but I'm just saying that it's not quite time to spray his hands with Stick'Em yet, either.

Fleener had nearly half his season number of receptions and over half his season total yardage in one 30 second drive in Chicago. That's pretty significant. I'm not discounting catches just because they didn't happen on 3rd down, simply pointing out that this one drive in Chicago accounts for about half his season production at this point. So yeah, outside of that he's been pretty much a non factor. I'm not saying Allen is tearing it up, he's not, and he wasn't brought here to do that either, but he is making more of an impact on the game right now.

And i'm not interested in blaming the rookie QB or the O line on Fleener's inability to catch an on target football. That's his problem, not the QB or the O line. Call it hyperbole if you want, but 3 drops in 16 attempts sure isn't good, is it? In fact, i'd say it's pretty much awful, especially for a guy drafted to be a receiving tightend. I don't see Allen dropping balls at that kind of a rate. Sure, he's a rookie so he could always improve, or he could end up like several other rookies here who were criticized early and never panned out. Time will tell.

[BOTT]

i was going to read it, then i realized it was written by a blogger.....

[weslo1812]

Allen has 4 3rd down catches. One went for a TD and one went for a first down in the Jags game. So there is 2 converted right there without even going back and searching. So he's converted at least half of those catches to either points or first downs. To this point, Fleener has not converted anything on 3rd down, he's actually been a total non factor outside of one drive in the opening game. No, he may not be terrible, but Allen is a better player right now and has impacted more games then Fleener both in receiving and blocking.

And my opinion is that his drops are a little bigger issue then you want to make it out to be. Yes, he's a rookie, but 3 drops in his limited number of targets is borderline horrendous.

Ummm I wouldnt call his drop horrendous or even horrible. He is ROOKIE!!!! Im not saying he's been great or perfect by any means but a couple drops, Come On!!! I think your blowing this drops thing way out of proportion. Yes they were catchable and he he didnt secure them, but Im sure there has been plenty of other rookie recivers that are talented that have had thier fair share of drops starting out too. Its gonna happen, It just seems to be happening more than we'd like right now. But calling a couple of drops Horrendous and all that Jazz in taking this out of context. As Ive said I think its a mental thing not an ability thing. He needs to settle down concentrate and dont overthink things. give him a lil TIME!!! Making WAY too much of this WAY too early!!!

[Superman]

Fleener had nearly half his season number of receptions and over half his season total yardage in one 30 second drive in Chicago. That's pretty significant. I'm not discounting catches just because they didn't happen on 3rd down, simply pointing out that this one drive in Chicago accounts for about half his season production at this point. So yeah, outside of that he's been pretty much a non factor. I'm not saying Allen is tearing it up, he's not, and he wasn't brought here to do that either, but he is making more of an impact on the game right now.

I don't have a problem with Allen being better so far; that's not necessarily a bad thing. But -- and I've said this before, so pardon me, but I want to make it clear what my stance is here -- we're talking about three games. It's such a small sample size, it's a mistake to try to grade either player and/or project what kind of impact they will have in the offense moving forward.

And as far as the one drive is concerned, respective to the production of these two players, you're right, it's just one drive. But his overall production has still been higher than Allen's, so it really depends on the lens you're looking through if you're saying that Allen is playing better. I get the angle. I'm not arguing against it. I'm just saying that you're being awful dismissive of Fleener's production just because it came in a relatively short time frame, even though that's exactly what we hoped he'd be able to do. His impact on that drive was arguably as significant as Allen's third down catches, aside from the touchdown. Your argument is almost getting to the point where you're overstating Allen's impact. He has 6 catches for 38 yards and a touchdown, on 7 targets.

And i'm not interested in blaming the rookie QB or the O line on Fleener's inability to catch an on target football. That's his problem, not the QB or the O line. Call it hyperbole if you want, but 3 drops in 16 attempts sure isn't good, is it? In fact, i'd say it's pretty much awful, especially for a guy drafted to be a receiving tightend. I don't see Allen dropping balls at that kind of a rate. Sure, he's a rookie so he could always improve, or he could end up like several other rookies here who were criticized early and never panned out. Time will tell.

To the bolded, neither am I. I didn't do that, for the record. I said, given the auxiliary circumstances, it's hard to read too much into the drops, not that the drops are to be blamed on anyone but the person dropping the ball.

Three drops in 16 targets is bad. One out of five. Not going to cut it. But it's not "borderline horrendous," specifically because it's such a small sample size. But when he gets to 40 targets, and he has 8 drops, then I'll be concerned. At this point, he's our guy. The talent is obviously there. But sometimes, rookies (and even veterans, honestly) go through spells where they make mistakes like dropping passes. Like you say, time will tell.

Lastly, Dwayne Allen is not an underdog here. He's not coming out of nowhere to upstage the more renowned counterpart. He won the Mackey award last year; he's a dang good prospect himself. Maybe Fleener is a little more flashy because he's considered more athletic, maybe he's gotten more attention because of his relationship with Luck, and yeah, being drafted a round earlier helps as well. But Allen is a fine player himself, and the expectations for him are pretty lofty as well. I think we're kind of grading on a curve, and I'm not so sure we should be.

[indy1888]

Ummm I wouldnt call his drop horrendous or even horrible. He is ROOKIE!!!! Im not saying he's been great or perfect by any means but a couple drops, Come On!!! I think your blowing this drops thing way out of proportion. Yes they were catchable and he he didnt secure them, but Im sure there has been plenty of other rookie recivers that are talented that have had thier fair share of drops starting out too. Its gonna happen, It just seems to be happening more than we'd like right now. But calling a couple of drops Horrendous and all that Jazz in taking this out of context. As Ive said I think its a mental thing not an ability thing. He needs to settle down concentrate and dont overthink things. give him a lil TIME!!! Making WAY too much of this WAY too early!!!

The number of drops he has compared to times targeted is indeed horrendous for an NFL player. Rookie or not, it's bad. Make every excuse for it you want, he has to start catching the ball. It was a problem all of training camp too. It's not like he just started dropping balls a few weeks ago, it's been happening since late July.

[braveheartcolt]

Memo to me: start ignoring any plays that are not 3rd down plays, touchdowns or are part of a 2 minute drill. Contributing 51 yards of a 59 yard scoring drive which leads to a score within 44 seconds should be ignored. While we are at it, can we please strike the 80 yard game winning TD by the Jags from the record, as this falls into the same category. Allen's 3 yard TD reception (ON 3rd DOWN) was much more significant.

For the record, I like Allen just as much as Fleener. Just not ready to consign Coby to the PS just yet, due to a few drops.

[Superman]

It was a problem all of training camp too. It's not like he just started dropping balls a few weeks ago, it's been happening since late July.

This is true, and is a good point. I still think him being a rookie makes it not too big of a concern at this point.