The Fleener Project

[weslo1812]

The number of drops he has compared to times targeted is indeed horrendous for an NFL player. Rookie or not, it's bad. Make every excuse for it you want, he has to start catching the ball. It was a problem all of training camp too. It's not like he just started dropping balls a few weeks ago, it's been happening since late July.

Ok so for the reg season he's been targeted 14 times and fromwhat I have read has three drops. So he has roughly still cought 70% of his passes. Not great but not horrible when you look at the fact he is still learning and getting comfortable. He is a rookie, yes I will say that again becuase It does matter whetther you want to accept it or not. Your not taking into account any learning curve or adjustments that he might be having to make from his game in College to now. Basically your saying that a rookie should be able to come in and just catch everything right off the bat. Its not just that easy, we can sit here and say ohhh they should be catching this and that but its a different story on the field. And no pre season alone is not enough time for all players to adapt and adjust. Your being Unrealistic here and as I said you are making this sound alot worse than it really is in the grand scheme of things. Let at least this season play out before we start trying to be harsh. By the way right now even with the drops he is on pace to have 43 rec and 523 yds. Would not be bad for his rookie season at all if he came close to or exceeded those numbers. So once again it's really not that BAD!

[HtownColt]

Ok so for the reg season he's been targeted 14 times and fromwhat I have read has three drops. So he has roughly still cought 70% of his passes. Not great but not horrible when you look at the fact he is still learning and getting comfortable. He is a rookie, yes I will say that again becuase It does matter whetther you want to accept it or not. Your not taking into account any learning curve or adjustments that he might be having to make from his game in College to now. Basically your saying that a rookie should be able to come in and just catch everything right off the bat. Its not just that easy, we can sit here and say ohhh they should be catching this and that but its a different story on the field. And no pre season alone is not enough time for all players to adapt and adjust. Your being Unrealistic here and as I said you are making this sound alot worse than it really is in the grand scheme of things. Let at least this season play out before we start trying to be harsh. By the way right now even with the drops he is on pace to have 43 rec and 523 yds. Would not be bad for his rookie season at all if he came close to or exceeded those numbers. So once again it's really not that BAD!

16 targets, 8 catches thats 50% just to be accurate. http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/te

[weslo1812]

16 targets, 8 catches thats 50% just to be accurate. http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/te

t I wasnt positive on the numbers I had said because I couldnt find a site with all the stats like the one you posted. Thanks for the site, thats gonna be usefull.

[braveheartcolt]

16 targets, 8 catches thats 50% just to be accurate. http://www.footballo...rs.com/stats/te

Being targeted doesn't mean he dropped them or should have caught them, does it?

[indy1888]

Being targeted doesn't mean he dropped them or should have caught them, does it?

No it doesn't, it basically just states that whenever a throw goes Fleener way there is only a 50 percent chance of something positive happening for whatever reason. Could be a bad throw, drop, whatever. Could be a simple incompletion because he can't get open. One of the worst catch rates among tight ends in the entire league though. Only 3 other tight ends with a minimum of 10 targets are worse. The link i posted earlier actually shows on target drops and in 16 chances Fleener has 3, again, one of the worst percentages in the league on a per target basis. So of 16 targets we know he has only 8 catches, 3 on target drops, so that leaves 5 other throws unaccounted for. Without going back and watching every play i can't say what happened there. Could be uncatchable balls or could be balls that weren't perfectly on target but catchable that he didn't catch. Could just be balls he couldn't make a play on because he couldn't get open.

[HtownColt]

Being targeted doesn't mean he dropped them or should have caught them, does it?

I never said he dropped them all I was just stating how many times Luck threw in his direction, whether it was a drop, or incompletion I don't know

[braveheartcolt]

I never said he dropped them all I was just stating how many times Luck threw in his direction, whether it was a drop, or incompletion I don't know

Sorry HT, didn't mean it like that. I was just checking you didn't mean it to be a dig at Fleener....which clearly it wasn't...

[braveheartcolt]

No it doesn't, it basically just states that whenever a throw goes Fleener way there is only a 50 percent chance of something positive happening for whatever reason. Could be a bad throw, drop, whatever. Could be a simple incompletion because he can't get open. One of the worst catch rates among tight ends in the entire league though. Only 3 other tight ends with a minimum of 10 targets are worse. The link i posted earlier actually shows on target drops and in 16 chances Fleener has 3, again, one of the worst percentages in the league on a per target basis. So of 16 targets we know he has only 8 catches, 3 on target drops, so that leaves 5 other throws unaccounted for. Without going back and watching every play i can't say what happened there. Could be uncatchable balls or could be balls that weren't perfectly on target but catchable that he didn't catch. Could just be balls he couldn't make a play on because he couldn't get open.

Are you going to throw Reggie under the bus, as his targeted to completion rate is not that great either? Or did Coby run over your pet hedgehog or something?

[indy1888]

Are you going to throw Reggie under the bus, as his targeted to completion rate is not that great either? Or did Coby run over your pet hedgehog or something?

Not throwing anyone under the bus, simply stating the facts as provided in the links above. You asked about it, so i answered. As for Reggie, he is still a solid 8 percent above Fleener and no where near his percentage of on target drops, so why would he need to be thrown under the bus? Not sure what your last comment has to do with anything, it's not like i made these numbers up. Go look at them for yourself. I mean you sure like to defend Fleener as much as i have been critical, is he your hero? Do you have his Fathead above your bed?

[braveheartcolt]

Not throwing anyone under the bus, simply stating the facts as provided in the links above. You asked about it, so i answered. As for Reggie, he is still a solid 8 percent above Fleener and no where near his percentage of on target drops, so why would he need to be thrown under the bus? Not sure what your last comment has to do with anything, it's not like i made these numbers up. Go look at them for yourself. I mean you sure like to defend Fleener as much as i have been critical, is he your hero? Do you have his Fathead above your bed?

Is that a whole 8%. From a 10 year plus veteran vs a 3 game rookie? Do you know how pathetic your argument is? I've got zero investment in CF, it is your rabid disgust for him that I protest about, especially against 38 yards of production from your hero. Get a grip and stop hating.

[indy1888]

Is that a whole 8%. From a 10 year plus veteran vs a 3 game rookie? Do you know how pathetic your argument is? I've got zero investment in CF, it is your rabid disgust for him that I protest about, especially against 38 yards of production from your hero. Get a grip and stop hating.

I don't even know why you are getting all rear end hurt over a catch % anyway. I don't even think it's that important. I think on target drops is more important because an on target drop is the receivers fault. Catch rate is affected by other things. Again, the only reason i even commented on it was because you asked.

The only thing i see that is pathetic is you and your inability to counter anything i say without going off on a tirade.

[braveheartcolt]

I don't even know why you are getting all rear end hurt over a catch completion anyway. I don't even think it's that important. I think on target drops is more important because an on target drop is the receivers fault. Catch rate is affected by other things. Again, the only reason i even commented on it was because you asked.

The only thing i see that is pathetic is you to be honest.

Now now. I'm disagreeing with your viewpoint, not you personally. I think, as you are a fellow Colt, that you are a good guy. I'm done with this petty squabble, I respect the mods too much to waste their time on repremands. Let's review after 10 games, yes?

[indy1888]

Now now. I'm disagreeing with your viewpoint, not you personally. I think, as you are a fellow Colt, that you are a good guy. I'm done with this petty squabble, I respect the mods too much to waste their time on repremands. Let's review after 10 games, yes?

Absolutely.

[Ryan Pelley]

Still wish we drafted Janoris Jenkins over Fleener. Hate that pick.

[Kleats]

I'm a Bears fan first Colts fan second , and I'll say this - if I was Bears GM ... and the Colts offered to trade Fleener for Kellen Davis .... I'd do it in a second . In the long run these guys careers are going to be exact opposites .

You can have your blocking TE , I'll take the guy who is going to be lighting up the scoreboard in due time.

Just a thought .

[gspdx]

Just thought I'd bring this back around. I didn't get to see the game (as usual here in the Pacific NW) but Fleener had decent numbers. Again, didn't see the game so I don't know how many catchable balls he missed, how many blocks he wiffed on, or anything else. But I think both Allen and Fleener are doing pretty well as rookies. Glad to have them both.

And that Luck guy is OK too.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Just thought I'd bring this back around. I didn't get to see the game (as usual here in the Pacific NW) but Fleener had decent numbers. Again, didn't see the game so I don't know how many catchable balls he missed, how many blocks he wiffed on, or anything else. But I think both Allen and Fleener are doing pretty well as rookies. Glad to have them both.

And that Luck guy is OK too.

I didn't see the game either,but its on NFL REWIND 2nite on Nfl network.

And I agree with you on Luck, he is OK.

[gspdx]

I didn't see the game either,but its on NFL REWIND 2nite on Nfl network.

And I agree with you on Luck, he is OK.

I don't have cable tv either. Not willing to spend the money. But have fun watching the game!

[NewColtsFan]

Every time I glance at this thread, I want to rip the eyes out of my own head....... :slaphead:

This is painful.

(Sigh.....)

[Kleats]

Every time I glance at this thread, I want to rip the eyes out of my own head....... :slaphead:

This is painful.

(Sigh.....)

Ignore it ..... I mean there are actually people commenting in here who have admitted not even watching the game so ...... lol ... whatever

[gspdx]

Ignore it ..... I mean there are actually people commenting in here who have admitted not even watching the game so ...... lol ... whatever

There are actually people posting here who have seen the games and have completely different opinions of what they've seen.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Every time I glance at this thread, I want to rip the eyes out of my own head....... :slaphead:

This is painful.

(Sigh.....)

Ignore it ..... I mean there are actually people commenting in here who have admitted not even watching the game so ...... lol ... whatever

gspdx was asking not really commenting on the game.

Not every colt fan is a homer(who lives in Indy & gets colt games broadcast in his living room every Sunday).

I live in Florida,so I don't get their games locally and now I am working on Sundays(that sucks) so I can't even go to a sports bar to watch like I usually did.

And I didn't see anywhere on this thread that I commented on the game,especially before airing on nfl rewind.

So if your comments were meant toward us they were un-warrented,

[chrisfarley]

there was a catch he missed that Dallas Clark would have had. Somewhat of a high ball but Clark's hands were like glue, Fleenors on the other hand cannot make that grab. Do your hands actually get better over time, I don't think so, your route running, football IQ, and such get better but I don't think you can teach what Dallas Clark had now that I see Fleenor struggle with certain types of passes. He HAS TO BE ABLE to make those catches since he can't block. HE HAS TO BE A HUGE asset to be retained on the team and not traded. Duane Allen is a beast comparativley.

[braveheartcolt]

there was a catch he missed that Dallas Clark would have had. Somewhat of a high ball but Clark's hands were like glue, Fleenors on the other hand cannot make that grab. Do your hands actually get better over time, I don't think so, your route running, football IQ, and such get better but I don't think you can teach what Dallas Clark had now that I see Fleenor struggle with certain types of passes. He HAS TO BE ABLE to make those catches since he can't block. HE HAS TO BE A HUGE asset to be retained on the team and not traded. Duane Allen is a beast comparativley.

A receiver (a TE at that) drops a catch. Wow. He looked a descent asset on that final drive on Sunday. Or does it only count if it's a 3rd down reception or a TD pass? Allen is good, I like him a lot, but get off Fleeners' back. He has nearly twice as many yards, and is 3 yrd per catch higher than Duane. Fleener can block as well. If that comparison is 'beastly' then I give up.

[gspdx]

gspdx was asking not really commenting on the game.

Not every colt fan is a homer(who lives in Indy & gets colt games broadcast in his living room every Sunday).

I live in Florida,so I don't get their games locally and now I am working on Sundays(that sucks) so I can't even go to a sports bar to watch like I usually did.

And I didn't see anywhere on this thread that I commented on the game,especially before airing on nfl rewind.

So if your comments were meant toward us they were un-warrented,

Thanks for watching my back. This is the only place I get to even talk about this stuff because people in Portland, Or, only want to talk about the Ducks.

[bavanlan]

there was a catch he missed that Dallas Clark would have had. Somewhat of a high ball but Clark's hands were like glue,

Except Clark would drop a bunny about once a game.

[gbrads_rants]

When Coby gets his first TD this thread will turn to a pillar of salt....

[indy1888]

A receiver (a TE at that) drops a catch. Wow. He looked a descent asset on that final drive on Sunday. Or does it only count if it's a 3rd down reception or a TD pass? Allen is good, I like him a lot, but get off Fleeners' back. He has nearly twice as many yards, and is 3 yrd per catch higher than Duane. Fleener can block as well. If that comparison is 'beastly' then I give up.

You can't dismiss the drop though braveheart as drops have been one of Fleener's biggest problems. The one Sunday was a huge miss at the time as it would have been a good gainer on first down with the Colts backed up inside the 10.

You said you didn't wanna compare Allen and Fleener until 10 games but you appear to be doing so in the post above. I'm not going into it anymore but will just say that if you think Fleener is a better tight end right now then Allen you simply aren't watching the same games most of us are.

[chrisfarley]

A receiver (a TE at that) drops a catch. Wow. He looked a descent asset on that final drive on Sunday. Or does it only count if it's a 3rd down reception or a TD pass? Allen is good, I like him a lot, but get off Fleeners' back. He has nearly twice as many yards, and is 3 yrd per catch higher than Duane. Fleener can block as well. If that comparison is 'beastly' then I give up.

NO! I'm not going to "get off his back", going to keep the heat on him. He is so early in his career it's too hard to tell, I'll give you that. I just want to see a really hard catch, which I have not seen yet. Show me the money.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

Thanks for watching my back. This is the only place I get to even talk about this stuff because people in Portland, Or, only want to talk about the Ducks.

Don't think twice about it.

[braveheartcolt]

You can't dismiss the drop though braveheart as drops have been one of Fleener's biggest problems. The one Sunday was a huge miss at the time as it would have been a good gainer on first down with the Colts backed up inside the 10.

You said you didn't wanna compare Allen and Fleener until 10 games but you appear to be doing so in the post above. I'm not going into it anymore but will just say that if you think Fleener is a better tight end right now then Allen you simply aren't watching the same games most of us are.

WE agreed to review after 10 games, and we will stick to that. My response was to Chris F. And at NO POINT have I said Fleener is a better TE than Allen. Because I don't know. In fact, i'm thinking that Allen may well be the better pick for us. I've said several times that Allen is probably ahead, but it really is irrelevant. What I dislike is Fleener getting trashed and compared to Allen's productivity, which is a pretty small sample size. And what I also despise (like the Luck comparisons) is the way folk focus on one 'stat' and ignore the flip side. I can assure you I am watching the same games as the rest, and probably more, as I've got a wonderful product called NFL Gamepass, which gives me finger tip access to all Colts games, including the last 3 years worth.

Repeat: Allen is looking good, and Fleener is not far behind. Give the boy a break.