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I have to say that I was a bit suprised that we didnt take a shot at Mo Hurst.

 

He seemed to be a perfect fit for what we are doing.

 

However......

 

Matt Miller had an article, where one of the draft suprises was that someone actually took Hurst at all.

 

One of the scouts said to Miller

"only the Raiders would draft a guy that could literally die on the field from a known condiiton"

 

I guess I was wrong........  

 

CB knows what he is doing  :)

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17 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I have to say that I was a bit suprised that we didnt take a shot at Mo Hurst.

 

He seemed to be a perfect fit for what we are doing.

 

However......

 

Matt Miller had an article, where one of the draft suprises was that someone actually took Hurst at all.

 

One of the scouts said to Miller

"only the Raiders would draft a guy that could literally die on the field from a known condiiton"

 

I guess I was wrong........  

 

CB knows what he is doing  :)

I mean, when the Raiders picked him, I was not at all surprised.  From a talent standpoint, it was almost certainly one of the steals of the draft.  But like you said, could die on the field (I assume anyway).  I wouldn't want to be the team dragged through the news if that were to ever happen.  What should they have done, what could they have done, why didn't they pass on him like everyone else?  They'd be crucified and the next victim of the media's charge against the "impossibly safe NFL."

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29 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I have to say that I was a bit suprised that we didnt take a shot at Mo Hurst.

 

He seemed to be a perfect fit for what we are doing.

 

However......

 

Matt Miller had an article, where one of the draft suprises was that someone actually took Hurst at all.

 

One of the scouts said to Miller

"only the Raiders would draft a guy that could literally die on the field from a known condiiton"

 

I guess I was wrong........  

 

CB knows what he is doing  :)

That comment is also very extreme.  He was cleared by Harvard doctors and has a similar condition to Star who plays well for the Panthers.  Did the Panthers have no regard for Star when they drafted him?

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I'm okay with it.  We now have more than 1 guy who can play and penetrate on the inside on passing downs and run downs.  We have a diverse group of people ranging from Autry, Ridgeway,  Lewis.  Maybe even Grover Stewart.   Might even be able to send Sheard inside situationally in a package.

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3 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

That comment is also very extreme.  He was cleared by Harvard doctors and has a similar condition to Star who plays well for the Panthers.  Did the Panthers have no regard for Star when they drafted him?

 

I doubt the two men have the same condition...   certainly not to the same level.

 

Star was taken in the first round.   The Panthers were not criticized for the pick.

 

Mo was taken in the fifth.   Most teams had him completely off their board.   The Raiders are taking some heat.

 

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison.

 

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6 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I doubt the two men have the same condition...   certainly not to the same level.

 

Star was taken in the first round.   The Osnthers were not criticized for the pick.

 

Mo was taken in the fifth.   Most teams had him completely off their board.   The Raiders are taking some heat.

 

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison.

 

Right not apples to apples but Mo was also cleared by Harvard doctors and was able t o participate in Michigan's Pro day.  It's not like Michigan had zero regards for his health as well.

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39 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

I doubt the two men have the same condition...   certainly not to the same level.

 

Star was taken in the first round.   The Osnthers were not criticized for the pick.

 

Mo was taken in the fifth.   Most teams had him completely off their board.   The Raiders are taking some heat.

 

I don't think this is an apples to apples comparison.

 

But it’s interesting to see WHY they are getting so much heat. He was cleared, and predraft was getting at least 2-3 round talk even WITH the condition. I wonder what it is that not only made the colts take him off their draft board, but literally 30 other teams as well. Kinda scary if it’s so serious. Cause Hurst is legit the best Dline of the class.

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I think a question would be 

What are the odds that it would kill him?

 

If a doctor said to me its a one in a million chance that you will die from this...... Im getting things right with my good Lord and playing football

 

If its a 1 in 100.   I'm playing football. 

 

Tough thing to think about for a young kid that maybe has not as many choices outside of football

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Right not apples to apples but Mo was also cleared by Harvard doctors and was able t o participate in Michigan's Pro day.  It's not like Michigan had zero regards for his health as well.

 

Agreed....    I'm glad he was drafted.    I'm glad he was cleared by two sets of doctors.    I'm, sorry the Colts didn't draft him.    But the doctors and the owner typically have final say in these kind of things.   I don't know what Ballard would have decided if he had been given the power to make the call?    I have no issue with either Michigan or Harvard.

 

I was only focusing on Star and Mo,  and saying I doubt their situations are the same....      that's all....

 

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13 hours ago, NorthernBlue said:

But it’s interesting to see WHY they are getting so much heat. He was cleared, and predraft was getting at least 2-3 round talk even WITH the condition. I wonder what it is that not only made the colts take him off their draft board, but literally 30 other teams as well. Kinda scary if it’s so serious. Cause Hurst is legit the best Dline of the class.

 

The pre-draft talk is pretty much meaningless,  because that's almost entirely media driven and the media doesn't know the medicals for the kid.    So, it's speculation.     A first round talent, if he's been cleared then you think he's going on Day 2.

 

But as he continued to slide,  I think Shefter put out a tweet saying most teams had him off their board completely and the few that still had Hurst on their board,  he was a Day 3 kid for them.   

 

And I love me some Maurice Hurst.    The guy was literally made for our new defense.   A smallish, high motor, high character 3-tech.    Wowza,  sign me up!     I wanted him so much....      I was hoping....     and at some point, it became obvious we were not going to take him....    and then Oakland jumped in...

 

If he had not been picked at all....    I wonder if THEN the Colts would've signed him as an UNFA?   

 

We'll never know....

 

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Talent-wise he's tough to pass on for sure.  But so did every other team not named the Raiders.  There was something worrisome about this guy and 31 other teams stayed away also.  It's a big gamble.

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Well, its water under the bridge, but it is interesting that only a few teams kept him on their boards. Its pretty clear that the guy is a health risk. The NFL is not completely risk averse, but they do pay attention when the medical risk is significant. I suspect Hurst's situation is significant. 

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5 hours ago, DaColts85 said:

Right not apples to apples but Mo was also cleared by Harvard doctors and was able t o participate in Michigan's Pro day.  It's not like Michigan had zero regards for his health as well.

Being cleared doesn't mean that as he ages, the condition won't increase his chances of dying on the field

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I spoke to over 10 scouts, coaches and executives regarding Hurst. One, in a heated rant, labeled the selection “irresponsible” by the Raiders because of Hurst’s heart condition [which hasn’t been publicly shared] and hoped the talented defender would “never put a f–king helmet on again in his life.”

 

 

Wow

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11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

 

And I love me some Maurice Hurst.    The guy was literally made for our new defense.   A smallish, high motor, high character 3-tech.    Wowza,  sign me up!     I wanted him to much....      I was hoping....     and at some point, it became obvious we were not going to take him....    and then Oakland jumped in...

 

 

To that point, we actually traded the pick to Oakland that was used on Hurst.......

 

We didnt have him on our board

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15 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

I think a question would be 

What are the odds that it would kill him?

 

If a doctor said to me its a one in a million chance that you will die from this...... Im getting things right with my good Lord and playing football

 

If its a 1 in 100.   I'm playing football. 

 

Tough thing to think about for a young kid that maybe has not as many choices outside of football

 

 

 

I read an article where the resources industry in Saskatchewan is looking for drivers of those huge dump trucks to shuttle coal/ore back and forth from their mines.  All you need is a valid drivers license and they'll train you how to drive it.  The trucks have two speeds forward and one speed backwards. They have to import labor from China they are so short handed.  Pay is about $150,000 a year.

 

Choices are all over the place, and not necessarily 10 bucks an hour at 7-11.  It might mean you have get immersed into a different social culture, lose your posse and your peeps, but those things aren't that important.  Maybe thinking they are important is what holds many kids back.  Kids shouldn't whine about not having opportunities.

 

But if people simply limit their opportunities to the areas within their comfort zone, it might be football or 7-11.

 

Of course, he went to Michigan and earned a college degree, so I'm sure he learned a marketable skill while he was there, cough cough, and he is swimming in other job offers.

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11 hours ago, csmopar said:

Being cleared doesn't mean that as he ages, the condition won't increase his chances of dying on the field

This can be true with majority of people in life.  Plus I highly doubt the doctors clearing him are looking at just tomorrow.  They are almost guaranteed looking at the strain his body will take and his heart handling it.  Can everything change next year? Yes, as can anyone's health.

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1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I read an article where the resources industry in Saskatchewan is looking for drivers of those huge dump trucks to shuttle coal/ore back and forth from their mines.  All you need is a valid drivers license and they'll train you how to drive it.  The trucks have two speeds forward and one speed backwards. They have to import labor from China they are so short handed.  Pay is about $150,000 a year.

 

Choices are all over the place, and not necessarily 10 bucks an hour at 7-11.  It might mean you have get immersed into a different social culture, lose your posse and your peeps, but those things aren't that important.  Maybe thinking they are important is what holds many kids back.  Kids shouldn't whine about not having opportunities.

 

But if people simply limit their opportunities to the areas within their comfort zone, it might be football or 7-11.

 

Of course, he went to Michigan and earned a college degree, so I'm sure he learned a marketable skill while he was there, cough cough, and he is swimming in other job offers.

• Graduated with a degree in sport management from the School of Kinesiology
• Currently pursuing his master's degree from the School of Social Work in Management of Human Services, with a focus on Child/Youth Services

 

I found this earlier today for Hurst

 

I works toward the character side

 

He has options, but put your self in his shoes....... you had a dream to play pro football. Most kids like him (not all)

thier very identity is tied up to football

 

Tough to not follow that path, even if its dangerous

 

Being born in Ohio, I grew up HATING U of Michigan, they were the bad guys.......

 

but from the human side, I wish him well..........

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6 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

• Graduated with a degree in sport management from the School of Kinesiology
• Currently pursuing his master's degree from the School of Social Work in Management of Human Services, with a focus on Child/Youth Services

 

I found this earlier today for Hurst

 

I works toward the character side

 

He has options, but put your self in his shoes....... you had a dream to play pro football. Most kids like him (not all)

thier very identity is tied up to football

 

Tough to not follow that path, even if its dangerous

 

Being born in Ohio, I grew up HATING U of Michigan, they were the bad guys.......

 

but from the human side, I wish him well..........

Looks like he's got enough going on to not have time for his Peeps and his Possee!  OOOPS..........  Doug is so ridiculous.

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24 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

• Graduated with a degree in sport management from the School of Kinesiology
• Currently pursuing his master's degree from the School of Social Work in Management of Human Services, with a focus on Child/Youth Services

 

I found this earlier today for Hurst

 

I works toward the character side

 

He has options, but put your self in his shoes....... you had a dream to play pro football. Most kids like him (not all)

thier very identity is tied up to football

 

Tough to not follow that path, even if its dangerous

 

Being born in Ohio, I grew up HATING U of Michigan, they were the bad guys.......

 

but from the human side, I wish him well..........

That's good.  So the guy has options other than driving a big dump truck or 7-11. 

 

I assume degrees in sports management and a masters in social work/ child services provide a marketable skill that pays more than 7-11 and is worthy of an expensive big 10 school offering those programs.  I'm not familiar with that industry.

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53 minutes ago, DougDew said:

That's good.  So the guy has options other than driving a big dump truck or 7-11. 

 

I assume degrees in sports management and a masters in social work/ child services provide a marketable skill that pays more than 7-11 and is worthy of an expensive big 10 school offering those programs.  I'm not familiar with that industry.

Social work is a mimimum wage endeavor in most cases. (on some weekends, I volunteer with my church with people that do those jobs)

 

Sports management seems to be a catchall job, where someone can take a front office job with a sports team 

 

 

I hope he plays like an all pro...... unless the Raiders are playing the Colts

 

:)

 

He can have an "off day" then

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

Social work is a mimimum wage endeavor in most cases. (on some weekends, I volunteer with my church with people that do those jobs)

 

Sports management seems to be a catchall job, where someone can take a front office job with a sports team 

 

 

I hope he plays like an all pro...... unless the Raiders are playing the Colts

 

:)

 

He can have an "off day" then

 

 

 

Social work is a pretty expansive profession. You can get into fields varying from the underpaid local government social workers that deal with many facets of child services, welfare, etc. all the way up to doing social work at private facilities that deal in behavioral health and addiction. The latter make way more money and with a Masters, he would be able to also step into administrative roles that pay even better.

 

I think Hurst has done a pretty solid job preparing for life after football, even if he was cut this off-season.

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23 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Social work is a mimimum wage endeavor in most cases. (on some weekends, I volunteer with my church with people that do those jobs)

 

Sports management seems to be a catchall job, where someone can take a front office job with a sports team 

 

 

I hope he plays like an all pro...... unless the Raiders are playing the Colts

 

:)

 

He can have an "off day" then

 

 

 

Agreed.  I was basically commenting on the part of your post that suggested some kids have little choice other than to risk their life or health playing football.  To my knowledge, with the exception of walk-ons, every kid who plays college football, definitely NFL football, have college athletic scholarships that provided a college degree at the end.  Assuming  the college degree provides the kind of education that's marketable, I would think 7-11 isn't in their world of choices.

 

I think every kid has plenty of opportunities, but maybe not so many if they insist upon staying within their circle of comfort.  That's a choice, not a circumstance, IMO.

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Social work is a mimimum wage endeavor in most cases. (on some weekends, I volunteer with my church with people that do those jobs)

 

Sports management seems to be a catchall job, where someone can take a front office job with a sports team 

 

 

I hope he plays like an all pro...... unless the Raiders are playing the Colts

 

:)

 

He can have an "off day" then

 

 

 

 

A quick google check will tell you Social Work is most definitely NOT a minimum wage endeavor....   

 

The average salary for socail workers in America ranges from the low 40's to the low 60's....    

 

The profession is notoriously over-worked and under-paid.     In other words,  these good people should be paid more for the work they do.

 

but they're not paid minimum wage.     You have to have a college degree for this,  and no one gets a college degree to turn it into a minimum wage job.    Again,  under paid --- yes.      Minimum wage --- no.

 

Here is one of many possible links....     no need to take my word for it...   the salary varies depending one the city and state you live and your experience...

 

https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Social-Worker-Salaries

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1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

A quick google check will tell you Social Work is most definitely NOT a minimum wage endeavor....   

 

The average salary for socail workers in America ranges from the low 40's to the low 60's....    

 

The profession is notoriously over-worked and under-paid.     In other words,  these good people should be paid more for the work they do.

 

but they're not paid minimum wage.     You have to have a college degree for this,  and no one gets a college degree to turn it into a minimum wage job.    Again,  under paid --- yes.      Minimum wage --- no.

 

Here is one of many possible links....     no need to take my word for it...   the salary varies depending one the city and state you live and your experience...

 

https://www.indeed.com/salaries/Social-Worker-Salaries

Thanks for the update

 

The rank and file people that I personally have worked with at charities, did NOT make that much. 

 

Not even close....... most of the ones that I have had direct contact with were hovering around minimum wage

which was my point

 

Some of the program leaders, the people management folks of these charities, didnt earn what you listed. 

 

But again, thanks for the correction......

 

I appreciate that you took the extra time to send an actual link to correct me on salaries in a non football career role

 

 

BUT..........  I do have to ask you a question

 

Clearly you are an articulate, thinking person.

 

You clearly are a sincere fan of the Colts

 

THESE ARE GREAT THINGS!

 

Reading some of your posts, you and I share many similar opinions on the strategy of the team we both follow 

 

You can see that I have "liked" quite a few of your posts, even if I dont 100% agree with all of them. They are intersting, and in some cases, they carry information that I wasnt aware of

 

Most of them are spot on. (At least to my humble opinion) 

 

I dont have nearly the time to research topics that you do. I spend quite a few mights and weeks away from Texas,

chasing the almighty dollar.........

 

You are in the know as much as anyone on the board.....

 

but......

 

You seem to have grabbed a role on this forum as "the corrector"   

 

Is that at all fun?  

 

I truly am not trying to insult..... I am just wondering

 

 

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1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Thanks for the update

 

The rank and file people that I personally have worked with at charities, did NOT make that much. 

 

Not even close....... most of the ones that I have had direct contact with were hovering around minimum wage

which was my point

 

Some of the program leaders, the people management folks of these charities, didnt earn what you listed. 

 

But again, thanks for the correction......

 

I appreciate that you took the extra time to send an actual link to correct me on salaries in a non football career role

 

 

BUT..........  I do have to ask you a question

 

Clearly you are an articulate, thinking person.

 

You clearly are a sincere fan of the Colts

 

THESE ARE GREAT THINGS!

 

Reading some of your posts, you and I share many similar opinions on the strategy of the team we both follow 

 

You can see that I have "liked" quite a few of your posts, even if I dont 100% agree with all of them. They are intersting, and in some cases, they carry information that I wasnt aware of

 

Most of them are spot on. (At least to my humble opinion) 

 

I dont have nearly the time to research topics that you do. I spend quite a few mights and weeks away from Texas,

chasing the almighty dollar.........

 

You are in the know as much as anyone on the board.....

 

but......

 

You seem to have grabbed a role on this forum as "the corrector"   

 

Is that at all fun?  

 

I truly am not trying to insult..... I am just wondering

 

 

 

MC....

 

First thing I should say is that you're right on a number of levels, and I'll get to those in a moment....

 

But I'd like to start by saying thanks for accepting my correction in the spirit that it was given and not taking it personally...  that was very kind of you and I appreciate it....

 

And yes I've noticed that you're very kind to me when it comes to likes and the positive feedback...  again appreciated...

 

Now..   to your main point..    me as the "corrector"....    I confess I am guilty as charged....    I wouldn't call it "fun" because not every poster takes this kind of public correction as well as you...   and a simple correction can quickly escalate into something unpleasant and I don't enjoy that....

 

Next week is six years here for me....    and it didn't take long to notice that opinions are often posted here as facts...  they "seem" right..   they "feel" right..  they're accepted here as right...  suddenly that post gets a rash of "likes" and that viewpoint is accepted fact....   if no one sets the record straight they take on a life of their own as a known fact...   drives me a little crazy...

 

So, I and a few other posters, are willing to stick our heads into the proverbial lion's mouth to say...  "I'm sorry, but that's not right."    We try to set the record straight with something more than opinion.   

 

It's not easy or fun and I'm often guilty of not being as diplomatic as I'd like to be, or as I should be.   And when I cross the line, I get my Internet ears boxed by Nadine.  I've been put into time out more than a few times.   This is NOT a complaint by me, I'm just sharing so my detractors know that I do get into trouble from time to time.

 

I'm 61 and semi-retired...   so I have more free time than most to find details to support posts or to correct others.   I realize that most people here are working full time and can't dig for details like I can...   I understand completely...   

 

Most people here are very kind to me...   they put up with my eccentricities and quirky personality...    I know I rub some here the wrong way...   I try to keep those to a minimum...   I try every year to have fewer and fewer fights...   I'd rate that as two steps forward, but one step back...  Better, but still not good enough...  

 

I always want to be better here...   Really. Honestly.  

 

Hope that answers your question...   if not, please feel free to ask more...

 

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Its all good

 

I actually became a fan when Unitas was on his way out... I think I was 10..... I lived in Ohio and somehow follwed them from there

 

Im 55. I am in a different work role these days. (i only have the central US) so all of a sudden, I have a little more time to chat about my Colts

 

I was doing a global role for a few years and didnt have much time to post (I used to be Deanocolts on this forum)

I cant access the email to that account anymore, and forgot the PW...... so..... MikeCurtis... and a few years later

 

I dont get as upset as I used to... maybe its an age thing. I only get miffed when some folks seem to think they you CANT have an opinion differnt than theirs .....

 

Its a forum, so lock step stuff is boring..........  Anyway..... we are all good.... i am still going to like your good stuff, and disagree where I disagree....... All in respect for a fellow Coltfan.... WHO IS OLDER THAN I AM :)

(That does make me feel a little better...LMAO)

 

Take care

 

 

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On 5/4/2018 at 2:26 PM, MikeCurtis said:

The rank and file people that I personally have worked with at charities, did NOT make that much. 

 

Not even close....... most of the ones that I have had direct contact with were hovering around minimum wage

which was my point

 

Those are probably not social workers. Many people call themselves "social workers" but they may be case workers or others working in the human services fields. (And even they make well above minimum wage.) Actual "social workers" have degrees in social work. Social workers have to be licensed and have to take continuing education courses to keep their license. 

 

I am a social worker with an MSW (Master's in Social Work). Many of us are in private practice. In my field (aging/geriatrics), those in private practice charge well over $100 per hour for their services. When I graduated from social work school, most of us would not apply to jobs with an annual salary of less than $50,000. 

 

There are many social workers where I live who received their degrees from Michigan. It is a well respected school of social work. 

 

On 5/4/2018 at 1:02 PM, NewColtsFan said:

You have to have a college degree for this,  and no one gets a college degree to turn it into a minimum wage job.    Again,  under paid --- yes.      Minimum wage --- no.

 

On 5/4/2018 at 11:26 AM, Shive said:

Social work is a pretty expansive profession. You can get into fields varying from the underpaid local government social workers that deal with many facets of child services, welfare, etc. all the way up to doing social work at private facilities that deal in behavioral health and addiction. The latter make way more money and with a Masters, he would be able to also step into administrative roles that pay even better.

 

Very well said. Thank you!

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14 hours ago, NFLfan said:

I am a social worker with an MSW (Master's in Social Work). Many of us are in private practice. In my field (aging/geriatrics), those in private practice charge well over $100 per hour for their services. When I graduated from social work school, most of us would not apply to jobs with an annual salary of less than $50,000. 

My fiance is a recreation therapist and administrator at a substance abuse facility, so I have a little bit of insight into that realm. Previously she was at an inpatient psych facility on the same campus that has a geriatrics unit and that was one of her favorite populations to work with.

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On 5/3/2018 at 12:56 PM, DaColts85 said:

That comment is also very extreme.  He was cleared by Harvard doctors and has a similar condition to Star who plays well for the Panthers.  Did the Panthers have no regard for Star when they drafted him?

 

On 5/3/2018 at 3:50 PM, NorthernBlue said:

But it’s interesting to see WHY they are getting so much heat. He was cleared, and predraft was getting at least 2-3 round talk even WITH the condition. I wonder what it is that not only made the colts take him off their draft board, but literally 30 other teams as well. Kinda scary if it’s so serious. Cause Hurst is legit the best Dline of the class.

 

Was he cleared only for the pro day? Or to resume ALL football functions? Something else?

 

On 5/3/2018 at 8:17 PM, csmopar said:

Being cleared doesn't mean that as he ages, the condition won't increase his chances of dying on the field

 

We do not know exactly what he has, and what functions he was cleared for (besides working out at a Pro Day).  Closest thing I have heard was someone leaked "irregular heartbeat'.  Now that alone is too vague for any determination from us on the outside.

 

Unfortunately when I hear 'Irregular Heartbeat', I think AFib first without having further info supplied.  Now we don't know that is what he has.  We don't. But no matter what type of arrythmia, it involves a treatment/therapy program to monitor and control. Some teams then say "OK, we'll pass then".  But Raiders probably consulted with team physicians, which also consulted his cardiologist(s).  They weighed it out and feel OK taking a risk; which I highly doubt is high likelihood of potential death. But it would seem frequent and full checks/monitoring will be part of the plan.  And maybe they can get at least the full rookie contract or more out of him before he finally fails a (all team) physical(s).

 

So let's wait and see what happens down the road. And if more information becomes disclosed later. Until then, Raiders are 'risk takers', not necessarily 'irresponsible' as was reported.  Not unless someone lays out the exact conditions and facts of his case bare to be dissected, where conditions and treatments can be weighed against playing a rough collision sport.

 

Nick Fairly got in a quite a few years, but now it seems his heart will end his football career (Saints doctors).    

 

Another player, had an aneurysm of the Aorta, and caught in a medical check because of a trade.  Jon Dorenbos was found to need surgery on his Aorta (aneurysm, just above the heart) because of a medical check for a trade.

 

There have been, and always will be players with issues of the heart and/or great vessels, in addition to the typical injuries/maladies.

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