Offensive Line Talk

[BlueShoe]

I don't think we can keep going down the same road and expect a different outcome. I believe we will see some surprises and the coaches will shake the offensive line up a bit. Inconsistency and riddled with injuries, this offensive line hasn't even had a chance to work together. Because we have invested so much time into fragile players, I do not believe we can continue to keep repeating history. We need to find a good balance of the least fragile and most talented.

 

Based on reading others posts, below is my reading of what most Colts fans on this board believe is our current offensive line depth chart. Not everyone will think this, but it's probably a good consensus.

Left Tackle
74  Castonzo, Anthony  T 6-7 311 26 5  Boston College
68  John, Ulrick  T 6-5 300 22 2  Georgia State

Left Guard
75  Mewhort, Jack  T/G 6-6 308 23 2  Ohio State
66  Thomas, Donald  G 6-4 303 29 8  Connecticut

Center
62  Holmes, Khaled  C/G 6-3 309 25 3  USC
72  Harrison, Jonotthan  C 6-4 308 23 2  Florida

Right Guard
79  Herremans, Todd  G 6-6 321 32 11  Saginaw Valley State
69  Thornton, Hugh  G 6-3 336 23 3  Illinois
60  Louis, Lance  G 6-3 330 30 6  San Diego State

Right Tackle
78  Cherilus, Gosder  T 6-7 316 30 8  Boston College
76  Reitz, Joe  G 6-7 325 29 5  Western Michigan

Currently on the outside looking in
63  Heenan, Ben  G 6-4 315 25 R  Saskatchewan
73  Hall, Matt  T 6-9 326 25 2  Belhaven
64  Hoover, Tyler  T 6-7 297 25 1  Michigan State
67  Cox, Demarco  T 6-8 294 24 R  Georgia Tech

I often like to think outside the box, and look at things from different angles. Let's imagine we take Ereck Flowers (or another RG/RT) at #29. What would be the best way to introduce him into the lineup? How can we maximize our talent on the offensive line? Herremans has NFL experience playing every offensive line position other than center. Gosder may or may not be ready on opening day, and we cannot have a lot of confidence in his ability to hold up for an entire season. At this stage of the game, I don't have Gosder in the lineup on opening day, but that could change as the offseason moves along.

 

Imagine this starting offensive line:

Left Tackle
Anthony Castonzo

Left Guard
Todd Herremans

Center
Khaled Holmes

Right Guard
Ereck Flowers

Right Tackle
Jack Mewhort

Although I am not thrilled with Holmes at center (he has flashed some potential), I do get excited when thinking about this potential starting offensive line. It is a lot to ask for a rookie to start at right tackle on opening day. As Flowers (or another #29) gains more experience, Mewhort and he could possibly switch. Who knows though? Maybe we find out that Mewhort is a great fit at right tackle. I like how this lineup offers protection on the weakside and also power on the strongside. I also like how this lineup puts our most durable offensive linemen at tackle. In my mind, this lineup has the potential to be the best offensive line we have had in over a decade. It's early, and if bad luck continues to plaque the offensive line then everything can change, but these are the types of things I like to think about. It will be interesting to see how the coaches approach the offensive line this offseason, but I do expect some things to change.

[MB-ColtsFan]

One of your opening lines speaks of consistency - the lack of it - and how it has hurt us. Then you offer to split up the best pairing we had on the line (AC & Mewhort). While I do agree the time to tinker is in the off-season, I don't want to experiment with that combo. I think we're only a starting RG & depth C from having a very good OL.

Hopefully we'll grab a lineman that can at least be considered a starter come game 1.

If that's a quality LT/LG that's better than AC or Jack then so be it. I just think we have the left side settled for the next 4 years or so. JMO.

[BlueShoe]

One of your opening lines speaks of consistency - the lack of it - and how it has hurt us. Then you offer to split up the best pairing we had on the line (AC & Mewhort). While I do agree the time to tinker is in the off-season, I don't want to experiment with that combo. I think we're only a starting RG & depth C from having a very good OL.

Hopefully we'll grab a lineman that can at least be considered a starter come game 1.

If that's a quality LT/LG that's better than AC or Jack then so be it. I just think we have the left side settled for the next 4 years or so. JMO.

 

I thought the same way at first, but not anymore. Keeping AC and Mewhort together might not be the best long-term solution. They are our most durable offensive linemen, and I am intrigued with seeing how well Mewhort would work out at right tackle. We very well could be holding the potential of our offensive line back by keeping Mewhort at left guard. 

[Dustin]

Doesn't Flowers have a knee injury?

[BlueShoe]

Doesn't Flowers have a knee injury?

 

Only NFL team doctors know the extent of the injury at this point. Grigson touched on how he handles injured players in the draft. If our doctors clear him then he is on our board. If not then he is off the board. Simple as that. If you took the time to actually read what I wrote then you should have easily noticed that I said Flowers or another RG/RT at #29.

 

We will find out Thursday just how serious Flowers knee injury is. If his knee is OK then he should go in the first. If he isn't drafted on day 1 then we will know it is serious.

[NewColtsFan]

I get no feeling that the Colts want to have Mewhort be the heir apparent to Cherilous.

 

I think Mewhort stays at LF, Flowers would be the RG for a year,  and if Cherilous isn't ready to go by the start of training camp, he'll be cut.

 

The RT would then be either Herrimans or Reitz.

 

That's my read.

 

By the way,  excellent post.    Nice done!   

[Dustin]

Unfortunately it doesn't look likely there will be any quality o-lineman without injury concerns at 29. Clemmings, the highest ceiling o-lineman in the class has a stress fracture and Flowers has a knee injury. Ogbeuhi is another guy with an injury history.

Humphries or Peat could be available, but it's not likely IMO.

If by some miracle Collins is available, I would hope Grigson pounces on him.

Fisher could be another option to play RT, but I don't see him as a fit schematicly.

Donovan Smith is another guy who could be an option in a tradeback or at 61.

Lotto quality o-lineman in the class (especially at the top). That's for sure.

[braveheartcolt]

Not a fan of breaking up the only decent part of our o-line for some experiment. No thanks.

[BlueShoe]

Unfortunately it doesn't look likely there will be any quality o-lineman without injury concerns at 29. Clemmings, the highest ceiling o-lineman in the class has a stress fracture and Flowers has a knee injury. Ogbeuhi is another guy with an injury history.

Humphries or Peat could be available, but it's not likely IMO.

If by some miracle Collins is available, I would hope Grigson pounces on him.

Fisher could be another option to play RT, but I don't see him as a fit schematicly.

Donovan Smith is another guy who could be an option in a tradeback or at 61.

Lotto quality o-lineman in the class (especially at the top). That's for sure.

 

Absolutely agree with you on Collins. 

[akcolt]

One of your opening lines speaks of consistency - the lack of it - and how it has hurt us. Then you offer to split up the best pairing we had on the line (AC & Mewhort). While I do agree the time to tinker is in the off-season, I don't want to experiment with that combo. I think we're only a starting RG & depth C from having a very good OL.

Hopefully we'll grab a lineman that can at least be considered a starter come game 1.

If that's a quality LT/LG that's better than AC or Jack then so be it. I just think we have the left side settled for the next 4 years or so. JMO.

Do you mean a RT? I feel like we have a number of guys that could play RG and Herreman is there to hold down the fort until one of the younger guys is ready.

 

RT on the other hand is a big question mark. I hope we can get another year out of Cherilus while grooming his predecessor. If not Reitz? A rookie? John?

 

The position I am most concerned with is C AGAIN. I am not sure Holmes will be there week 1. I am not sure how anyone could be. Hopefully things have slowed down for Harrison and he will just be playing next year not thinking so much when he hits the field. My money is on him being out there week 1 unless we add someone.

 

The O Line is the biggest question mark on the team IMO. There are a number of ways it could shake out. The draft will add more competition I hope. It will be another interesting training camp.

[BlueShoe]

I get no feeling that the Colts want to have Mewhort be the heir apparent to Cherilous.

 

I think Mewhort stays at LF, Flowers would be the RG for a year,  and if Cherilous isn't ready to go by the start of training camp, he'll be cut.

 

The RT would then be either Herrimans or Reitz.

 

That's my read.

 

By the way,  excellent post.    Nice done!   

 

I believe we will make some changes. What those changes are is still TBD.

 

Mewhort, Herremans, and Reitz offer good position flexibility.

 

Thanks for the nice words. 

[Gavin]

Flowers suffered a knee injury in October vs Virginia Tech but only missed 1 game, I see Flowers and Collins as having the same balance issues but I'd have to go with Flowers over Collins simply because he also has mauling power and he is more mobile

[akcolt]

I thought the same way at first, but not anymore. Keeping AC and Mewhort together might not be the best long-term solution. They are our most durable offensive linemen, and I am intrigued with seeing how well Mewhort would work out at right tackle. We very well could be holding the potential of our offensive line back by keeping Mewhort at left guard.

I thought when we drafted him he would end up at RT. It would make sense we seem to have a bunch of guys who can play G.

I agree with NCF if Cherilus isn't ready he will be gone. The same with Thomas.

[NewColtsFan]

Do you mean a RT? I feel like we have a number of guys that could play RG and Herreman is there to hold down the fort until one of the younger guys is ready.

 

RT on the other hand is a big question mark. I hope we can get another year out of Cherilus while grooming his predecessor. If not Reitz? A rookie? John?

 

The position I am most concerned with is C AGAIN. I am not sure Holmes will be there week 1. I am not sure how anyone could be. Hopefully things have slowed down for Harrison and he will just be playing next year not thinking so much when he hits the field. My money is on him being out there week 1 unless we add someone.

 

The O Line is the biggest question mark on the team IMO. There are a number of ways it could shake out. The draft will add more competition I hope. It will be another interesting training camp.

 

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure about Holmes.

 

He did a decent job in the last 5-6 weeks of the season, including playoffs.

 

I expect him to be much better this year.  

 

I think the light finally came on for him.    I expect his performance to get much better this year.   Will be hugely disappointed if it's not. 

 

I also think Harrison will be better as well,  but would anticipate he'll be the back-up,  at least until he proves he's better or until Holmes gets injured....  (again...)   

[MB-ColtsFan]

Do you mean a RT? I feel like we have a number of guys that could play RG and Herreman is there to hold down the fort until one of the younger guys is ready.

RT on the other hand is a big question mark. I hope we can get another year out of Cherilus while grooming his predecessor. If not Reitz? A rookie? John?

The position I am most concerned with is C AGAIN. I am not sure Holmes will be there week 1. I am not sure how anyone could be. Hopefully things have slowed down for Harrison and he will just be playing next year not thinking so much when he hits the field. My money is on him being out there week 1 unless we add someone.

The O Line is the biggest question mark on the team IMO. There are a number of ways it could shake out. The draft will add more competition I hope. It will be another interesting training camp.

DUH!! You're right. I meant to type RT, not RG. Thanks.

[akcolt]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure about Holmes.

He did a decent job in the last 5-6 weeks of the season, including playoffs.

I expect him to be much better this year.

I think the light finally came on for him. I expect his performance to get much better this year. Will be hugely disappointed if it's not.

I also think Harrison will be better as well, but would anticipate he'll be the back-up, at least until he proves he's better or until Holmes gets injured.... (again...)

I agree Holmes was useful when he played and I too would anticipate his play to improve with more time on the field.

Thorton is still there too. I'm probably in the minority here but I'm not ready to write him off just yet. Its year 3 for both time to put up or shut up.

It would be nice if Cherilus can't go if the 5 best O Lineman were Castano Mewhort Holmes Thorton Herremans.

Thornton would have to beat out Reitz Hennan hopefully a rookie..a slew of guys so he'd have to step it up. Maybe he's not starter material every pick isn't going to hit but if he is it's time to show it.

My biggest fear with Holmes isn't if he can be play its that he doesn't make it to week 1. If he can make it through the season the O Line will be much improved.

[Bobbycovert]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure about Holmes.

 

He did a decent job in the last 5-6 weeks of the season, including playoffs.

 

I expect him to be much better this year.  

 

I think the light finally came on for him.    I expect his performance to get much better this year.   Will be hugely disappointed if it's not. 

 

I also think Harrison will be better as well,  but would anticipate he'll be the back-up,  at least until he proves he's better or until Holmes gets injured....  (again...)   

     I don't know how anyone could be sure about Holmes.  It has taken him entirely too long to crack a lineup that has had guys named Satele, Shipley, Reitz, and Harrison playing in front of him.  Grigson has intimated that the guy is injury prone and to this point, he has only been decent.  

 

     I agree that the OL has looked better with him at C but I just don't have a ton of faith that he'll be healthy for long enough to allow for the type of stability you want on the Oline.  If Cam Erving is there at #29, I'd at least consider taking him.

[NewColtsFan]

     I don't know how anyone could be sure about Holmes.  It has taken him entirely too long to crack a lineup that has had guys named Satele, Shipley, Reitz, and Harrison playing in front of him.  Grigson has intimated that the guy is injury prone and to this point, he has only been decent.  

 

     I agree that the OL has looked better with him at C but I just don't have a ton of faith that he'll be healthy for long enough to allow for the type of stability you want on the Oline.  If Cam Erving is there at #29, I'd at least consider taking him.

 

You're probably right.    I don't have a lot of data points to go on with Holmes.

 

But Grigson seems to be very optimistic about him, and since I admire Grigson,  I admire Holmes.

 

Grigson's view is this....    he has been a part of three franchises that all went to the Super Bowl with a center who was a Free Agent.    So, clearly he knows you can go far with a FA center.

 

But, in an attempt to solidify the line,  he spent a 4th round pick on a guy he flat-out loves.   But I try to watch Grigson when he's interviewed.    He loves talking about Holmes.    High IQ.   Incredibly long arms.   Good size.   Came from a great college program.    He's got great tools to work with, so if he can just remain healthy,  he should work out great for the Colts.

 

And so for all those reasons,  I remain optimistic.   Perhaps I shouldn't,  but I am.....

 

Of course,  if Holmes disappoints again this year,  then my patience will likely fade and I'll be looking toward Harrison....

 

I'm hoping that doesn't happen....

[Deano1818]

I think Mewhort to RT is a valid choice, but only if Gosden is hurt 

 

It is much easier to find a quality guard than a quality RT.... Much

 

Mewhort spent most of his time at tackle in college. He was projected by most as a RT.

 

Having him be a RT in the pros is not a stretch by any means

 

He has the build for the position. AND.... if you watch him.... he doesnt move the pile at his current 

position. He pass blocks well, but needs a double team to move a NT out of a running lane.

 

In our offense, the guards need to be able to push the pile for the running game to take off.

 

I do think that you will see Mewhort at LG for this year if Gosden is healthy in camp

 

If everyone is healthy, this line should be much more solid

 

Herremans at RG is a natural fit. The guy is a beast 

 

 

I do think that we need to draft a project Guard / Tackle for depth/ future starter

 

I personally doubt that with the "Colts need Playmakers" comments from front office, and the fact that

we SHOULD actually have a decent line this year, that we will be going OL with the first 1-3 picks

[csmopar]

I don't know how anyone could be sure about Holmes. It has taken him entirely too long to crack a lineup that has had guys named Satele, Shipley, Reitz, and Harrison playing in front of him. Grigson has intimated that the guy is injury prone and to this point, he has only been decent.

I agree that the OL has looked better with him at C but I just don't have a ton of faith that he'll be healthy for long enough to allow for the type of stability you want on the Oline. If Cam Erving is there at #29, I'd at least consider taking him.

i don't think it was a health issue Either that was the reason he couldn't crack the line up. I was at the Cincinnati play off game. There were a few times where it looked like he just quit. Like he coasts sometimes. not very many but a few. He still did well but I question his motor.

[Deano1818]

Holmes looked good on most plays, when allowed to play, give him some time to develop

[Bobbycovert]

I think Mewhort to RT is a valid choice, but only if Gosden is hurt 

 

It is much easier to find a quality guard than a quality RT.... Much

 

Mewhort spent most of his time at tackle in college. He was projected by most as a RT.

 

Having him be a RT in the pros is not a stretch by any means

 

He has the build for the position. AND.... if you watch him.... he doesnt move the pile at his current 

position. He pass blocks well, but needs a double team to move a NT out of a running lane.

 

In our offense, the guards need to be able to push the pile for the running game to take off.

 

I do think that you will see Mewhort at LG for this year if Gosden is healthy in camp

 

If everyone is healthy, this line should be much more solid

 

Herremans at RG is a natural fit. The guy is a beast 

 

 

I do think that we need to draft a project Guard / Tackle for depth/ future starter

 

I personally doubt that with the "Colts need Playmakers" comments from front office, and the fact that

we SHOULD actually have a decent line this year, that we will be going OL with the first 1-3 picks

 

Here's my question about Mewhort at tackle:

 

In the write-ups I've seen it looks like Mewhort struggles with assignments where he has to pull.  

 

Would that make him a better candidate for Tackle because he be less likely to be pulling?  Or does this make him a poor candidate for tackle because lacking the agility/quickness to pull likely means he'd struggle to stay in front of rushers on the edge?

 

Also, I always figured a lineman is more likely to gain strength (ability to push the pile) than speed/quickness through training with the team.

 

I could be completely off base with this so I'd appreciate your thoughts.

[Deano1818]

Here's my question about Mewhort at tackle:

 

In the write-ups I've seen it looks like Mewhort struggles with assignments where he has to pull.  

 

Would that make him a better candidate for Tackle because he be less likely to be pulling?  Or does this make him a poor candidate for tackle because lacking the agility/quickness to pull likely means he'd struggle to stay in front of rushers on the edge?

 

Also, I always figured a lineman is more likely to gain strength (ability to push the pile) than speed/quickness through training with the team.

 

I could be completely off base with this so I'd appreciate your thoughts."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Its a viable arguement. Some offenses pull their tackles, some dont.......

 

In our offense I dont see much pulling from the tackles. (if at all)

 

Mewhort played LT in college. He was good. But...... most draft nicks "experts" slated him at RT. because of his footwork.

 

 

All I can say is watch him closely if you taped his games.

 

He did well with pass protection. He was almost aways able to slide over and get slanting DL. 

 

He did well with double team blocks on run plays 

 

He pushed a LB, when one got in his way on running plays

 

He did not however, push the pile well at all

 

Mewhort is ONE of the reasons that we dont run the ball well.

 

He cant seem to move anyone out of the way on running plays, one on one

 

Watch the tape

 

Good player, maybe good enough at LG, in comparisons to some of the players we have run out there

 

....... But....

 

I think his natural position, and where he can develop into an elite player is RT

 

 

[Jdubu]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure about Holmes.

He did a decent job in the last 5-6 weeks of the season, including playoffs.

I expect him to be much better this year.

I think the light finally came on for him. I expect his performance to get much better this year. Will be hugely disappointed if it's not.

I also think Harrison will be better as well, but would anticipate he'll be the back-up, at least until he proves he's better or until Holmes gets injured.... (again...)

I hope you are right about Holmes and the light came on. I want to see him succeed in this offense. My bet is the team (was it Pags or Griggs) seen Jonathon as the guy with the most to offer between the two in the early going and then he hit a wall. Once Holmes got back in there, he played well enough for a guy who was essentially starting for the first time. Problem was it was really his second year in the system and Jonathon matched him pretty much in year 1. I don't know which guy they will go with this year, I hope both guys have studied their butt off and hit the weight room hard to get stronger and improved their stamina.

Center and RT are the question marks of the line. We have enough potential talent to compete at the RG spot and if we need to move Mewhort to RT, we have competent guys to play that as well. It's rough because we have guys that have flashed enough talent at the spots to not draft a high round olineman but we've all seen enough struggles that we want a change. Only the coaches know how much talent we have and if we need a real change at any spot on the line with a new rookie.

[ztboiler]

I don't think we can keep going down the same road and expect a different outcome. I believe we will see some surprises and the coaches will shake the offensive line up a bit. Inconsistency and riddled with injuries, this offensive line hasn't even had a chance to work together. Because we have invested so much time into fragile players, I do not believe we can continue to keep repeating history. We need to find a good balance of the least fragile and most talented.

 

Good thoughts, and all valid possibilities.  A couple thoughts to the contrary (disclaimer: I spend very little energy on what I'd like to see happen and most of my time projecting what I think this staff will do based on their current and past behavior).

 

First off - to your bolded above, the most likely path to getting what you want - consistency and performance - is maturation of your investments ie. staying the course while continuing to draft and develop.  We have a much better chance of becoming an elite O-line by leaving the left side untouched and allowing Holmes/Harrison to develop at C while doing our tweaking on the right side.  Furthermore, we have the pieces.  

 

Reitz and Herremens are solid, proven pros ready to plug and play today at either position.  Thornton has played well in bursts and there is no reason to think he might not get more healthy and consistent in his 3rd year - that is how it works for developmental players.  Throw a rookie into the mix and you have plenty of quality possibilities to man the right side....just let them play and figure it out, no need to mess with the left side.  None of that figures in Cherilus, and you still have Louis on the deep bench if there is a training camp injury, but he doesn't make the team next year otherwise. 

 

As for Cherilus, our staff is talking very openly about RT as a need.  It is clear that they know the truth, and that they will be quite surprised if Cherilus ever plays another down as a Colt.

 

If moving Mewhort to RT was part of the plan, we'd have done it more than once last year when the need was so great.  I also think that there is a much better chance of keeping Reitz healthy at RT than either guard spot and this staff knows it.

 

At the end of the season, we had a playoff caliber O-line that was showing us all the kind of progress we've been hoping for....it just took more time to happen than projected.  Let's keep adding and developing talent and let them finish the journey.  It's the only way for everybody around here to actually get what they want.

 

Of course, once the O-line is routinely good, what will be left to talk about around here?

[BrentMc11]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure about Holmes.

 

He did a decent job in the last 5-6 weeks of the season, including playoffs.

 

I expect him to be much better this year.  

 

I think the light finally came on for him.    I expect his performance to get much better this year.   Will be hugely disappointed if it's not. 

 

I also think Harrison will be better as well,  but would anticipate he'll be the back-up,  at least until he proves he's better or until Holmes gets injured....  (again...)   

I saw absolutely nothing about Holmes' play to make me want another center.  I totally agree Harrison will also work at guard to be ready for anything.

 

This is yet another year where I say "We need to utilize Joe Reitz."  I know we said "lets not change anything" in terms of having Mewhort at RT.  Mewhort has played much more RT than Reitz ever did, and I feel Reitz played solidly at RT late into the year for us.

 

If we wanted to 'play' with our lineup, Reitz could go back to LG with Mewhort at RT...or vise versa.  Reitz strength is as good as it has ever been to play either one.

[BlueShoe]

I personally doubt that with the "Colts need Playmakers" comments from front office, and the fact that

we SHOULD actually have a decent line this year, that we will be going OL with the first 1-3 picks

 

You're kidding right?

 

AC is in a contract year, Gosder might be finished, Herremans is only on a 1-year deal, and so on. We have to reload for the future in this draft. 

 

There is no question we will draft offensive linemen in this draft, and if one is available early (who is close to BPA) then Grigson absolutely pulls the trigger. We will not have the money to buy an offensive line next year, so this draft is very "offensive line" important.

[BlueShoe]

Good thoughts, and all valid possibilities.  A couple thoughts to the contrary (disclaimer: I spend very little energy on what I'd like to see happen and most of my time projecting what I think this staff will do based on their current and past behavior).

 

First off - to your bolded above, the most likely path to getting what you want - consistency and performance - is maturation of your investments ie. staying the course while continuing to draft and develop.  We have a much better chance of becoming an elite O-line by leaving the left side untouched and allowing Holmes/Harrison to develop at C while doing our tweaking on the right side.  Furthermore, we have the pieces.  

 

Reitz and Herremens are solid, proven pros ready to plug and play today at either position.  Thornton has played well in bursts and there is no reason to think he might not get more healthy and consistent in his 3rd year - that is how it works for developmental players.  Throw a rookie into the mix and you have plenty of quality possibilities to man the right side....just let them play and figure it out, no need to mess with the left side.  None of that figures in Cherilus, and you still have Louis on the deep bench if there is a training camp injury, but he doesn't make the team next year otherwise. 

 

As for Cherilus, our staff is talking very openly about RT as a need.  It is clear that they know the truth, and that they will be quite surprised if Cherilus ever plays another down as a Colt.

 

If moving Mewhort to RT was part of the plan, we'd have done it more than once last year when the need was so great.  I also think that there is a much better chance of keeping Reitz healthy at RT than either guard spot and this staff knows it.

 

At the end of the season, we had a playoff caliber O-line that was showing us all the kind of progress we've been hoping for....it just took more time to happen than projected.  Let's keep adding and developing talent and let them finish the journey.  It's the only way for everybody around here to actually get what they want.

 

Of course, once the O-line is routinely good, what will be left to talk about around here?

 

Nice post and valid points.

 

My issue with staying the path is the only consistency our offensive line has shown is to be often injured. Due to injuries, we started more offensive line combinations than any team in the NFL last year. We keep trying to stick to a plan, and give fragile offensive linemen the majority of the offseason reps, only to see a few get injured early in the year. We are losing valuable experience and preparation because of injuries, and every year we have to throw an inexperienced lineman in the mix somewhere. By playing both AC and Mewhort at tackles, we place our most durable linemen in positions that need the most consistency. We have several linemen who can play in the interior.

 

The interior is also a good place to start a rookie, which is what we did with Mewhort last year. By giving him a full offseason to prepare as the starting right tackle, we up our chances of overall offensive line improvement. 

 

Anything can happen, and my expectations are open to just about any possibility from the coaching staff. I just don't see us staying the same journey. I believe some change is in the air with the offensive line. What that change is, who knows? 

[Deano1818]

You're kidding right?

 

AC is in a contract year, Gosder might be finished, Herremans is only on a 1-year deal, and so on. We have to reload for the future in this draft. 

 

There is no question we will draft offensive linemen in this draft, and if one is available early (who is close to BPA) then Grigson absolutely pulls the trigger. We will not have the money to buy an offensive line next year, so this draft is very "offensive line" important.

We will see.    

 

AC is going no where...... He will be franchised at least, at best he will signed to a long term contract

I don't see that as a valid point for a discussion.

 

Gosder may well be done, or not.... I dont know

but my answer is not to use a first round pick on his replacement.......

 

IF he isnt ready to go.....  I am no expert, but to me...  IMHO, the MOST proven thing on this roster as

a candidate for RT, (if Gosder cant go) is Mewhort.

 

I would add that any rookie is a gamble. Especially to start this year.

 

The question to you is ........ do you trust a rookie OVER Mewhort on the Tackle spot?, you may.... I dont.

 

I can see a case for a G/T to be taken in round 4 or 5. A  person that could be groomed to take over next year 

at one of the G/T spots if needed.

 

Maybe they use this pick in round 3. 

 

I dont have a crystal ball, but believe we need major help, this year for "playmakers" on defense

 

We need more pass rushers

 

We need Safety help

 

We need improvement in ILB

 

I could see us using rounds 1-3 on these 3 spots.......  

 

We may also take a RB if the right one comes up.

[Deano1818]

Also...... anyone remember Chris Hinton?

 

He started the first year at guard, learned the pro game, and was an excellent tackle for the Colts......

 

Before we GAVE hime away to get Jeff George   ):

[Dark Superman]

IF we can stay healthy up front, I think our offensive line is going to surprise a lot of people.

[Dark Superman]

Also...... anyone remember Chris Hinton?

 

He started the first year at guard, learned the pro game, and was an excellent tackle for the Colts......

 

Before we GAVE hime away to get Jeff George   ):

That was a little before my time.. Not really, but that sounds worst than the RICHARDSON trade.

[Dark Superman]

Holmes looked good on most plays, when allowed to play, give him some time to develop

And he should only get better..

[Deano1818]

That was a little before my time.. Not really, but that sounds worst than the RICHARDSON trade.

 

We made some STUPID decisions in the early years in Indianapolis

 

This trade killed us for 3-4 years

 

The richardson trade was painful, like having A tooth pulled out

 

The George debacle was like having ALL of the teeth pulled out

 

We lost an excellent LT in Hinton, a very good receiver in Rison...... and the picks that COULD have gone for real players......

 

George was an * that the team hated

[ztboiler]

Nice post and valid points.

 

My issue with staying the path is the only consistency our offensive line has shown is to be often injured. Due to injuries, we started more offensive line combinations than any team in the NFL last year. We keep trying to stick to a plan, and give fragile offensive linemen the majority of the offseason reps, only to see a few get injured early in the year. We are losing valuable experience and preparation because of injuries, and every year we have to throw an inexperienced lineman in the mix somewhere. By playing both AC and Mewhort at tackles, we place our most durable linemen in positions that need the most consistency. We have several linemen who can play in the interior.

 

The interior is also a good place to start a rookie, which is what we did with Mewhort last year. By giving him a full offseason to prepare as the starting right tackle, we up our chances of overall offensive line improvement. 

 

Anything can happen, and my expectations are open to just about any possibility from the coaching staff. I just don't see us staying the same journey. I believe some change is in the air with the offensive line. What that change is, who knows? 

Those types of consistency issues due to injury are always possible regardless of planning....but that story has been well documented.  Shuffle your players by performance and only stock the shelves with players you expect to be durable as best as you can.

 

Projecting Mewhort as one of our most durable linemen is equivalent to projecting Thornton as the same last year (both missed 2 games due to injury in rookie campaign).   A year later many around here think that Thornton is injury prone since he got banged up in year 2.

 

Luis Vasquez didn't play a full season for the Chargers in any of his first 3 attempts, finally succeeding in his fourth and hasn't missed a game for the last 3 years.  You just never know.  Stock the shelves with healthy young players and hope for the best.

 

Reitz is the one player on our line that I'd rather not project as a full-season starter for obvious reasons....but I'd be just fine with starting him at RT until a rookie was ready, and I'd much rather make a change on the right side mid-season than disrupt the blindside chemisty.  If you project Mewhort as exceptionally durable, then all the more reason to leave him where he is.

 

That said, I'd have no issue with moving Mewhort to RT, particularly to get us through a year, but I think his career value is greater at LG and I believe our staff sees him as a piece of a great tandem.

[BlueShoe]

We will see.    

 

AC is going no where...... He will be franchised at least, at best he will signed to a long term contract

I don't see that as a valid point for a discussion.

 

Gosder may well be done, or not.... I dont know

but my answer is not to use a first round pick on his replacement.......

 

IF he isnt ready to go.....  I am no expert, but to me...  IMHO, the MOST proven thing on this roster as

a candidate for RT, (if Gosder cant go) is Mewhort.

 

I would add that any rookie is a gamble. Especially to start this year.

 

The question to you is ........ do you trust a rookie OVER Mewhort on the Tackle spot?, you may.... I dont.

 

I can see a case for a G/T to be taken in round 4 or 5. A  person that could be groomed to take over next year 

at one of the G/T spots if needed.

 

Maybe they use this pick in round 3. 

 

I dont have a crystal ball, but believe we need major help, this year for "playmakers" on defense

 

We need more pass rushers

 

We need Safety help

 

We need improvement in ILB

 

I could see us using rounds 1-3 on these 3 spots.......  

 

We may also take a RB if the right one comes up.

 

All good points.

 

I just see BPA being an offensive lineman at some point in the first few days.

[BlueShoe]

Those types of consistency issues due to injury are always possible regardless of planning....but that story has been well documented.  Shuffle your players by performance and only stock the shelves with players you expect to be durable as best as you can.

 

Projecting Mewhort as one of our most durable linemen is equivalent to projecting Thornton as the same last year (both missed 2 games due to injury in rookie campaign).   A year later many around here think that Thornton is injury prone since he got banged up in year 2.

 

Luis Vasquez didn't play a full season for the Chargers in any of his first 3 attempts, finally succeeding in his fourth and hasn't missed a game for the last 3 years.  You just never know.  Stock the shelves with healthy young players and hope for the best.

 

Reitz is the one player on our line that I'd rather not project as a full-season starter for obvious reasons....but I'd be just fine with starting him at RT until a rookie was ready, and I'd much rather make a change on the right side mid-season than disrupt the blindside chemisty.  If you project Mewhort as exceptionally durable, then all the more reason to leave him where he is.

 

That said, I'd have no issue with moving Mewhort to RT, particularly to get us through a year, but I think his career value is greater at LG and I believe our staff sees him as a piece of a great tandem.

 

I agree to an extent. My point is there comes a time when what we're doing is not working. We need to mix some things up. I have a feeling that will happen this year. Just a hunch that we could see some changes that maybe we, as fans, were not expecting.

[BlueShoe]

Also...... anyone remember Chris Hinton?

 

He started the first year at guard, learned the pro game, and was an excellent tackle for the Colts......

 

Before we GAVE hime away to get Jeff George   ):

 

Absolutely! We did the same with Tarik Glenn too. Glenn was a RG his rookie season and Meadows was the left tackle. The next season we moved Meadows to right tackle and Glenn to left tackle. 

 

The rest is history. Glenn went on to become the best left tackle in Indianapolis Colts history, even with his false start issues. 

[ztboiler]

I agree to an extent. My point is there comes a time when what we're doing just in not working. We need to mix some things up. I have a feeling that will happen this year. Just a hunch that we could see some changes that maybe we, as fans, were not expecting.

No doubt we both agree to an extent.  Where we significantly diverge is at any suggestion that we've finally reached a point where Pags and Grigs will say "this just isn't working".  On the contrary, I think they are finally ready to say "It really started to click at the end of the year, let's add a RT prospect where it fits our board and keep getting better".

[BlueShoe]

No doubt we both agree to an extent.  Where we significantly diverge is at any suggestion that we've finally reached a point where Pags and Grigs will say "this just isn't working".  On the contrary, I think they are finally ready to say "It really started to click at the end of the year, let's add a RT prospect where it fits our board and keep getting better".

 

Possibly, but as Deano pointed out, there are several instances where a rookie started at guard and moved to tackle in his next season. This precedent has been set for many years in the NFL. I believe it is highly possible and logical that we could see Mewhort move to right tackle tackle this season.