As a owner would you hire Polian as gm based on the Indy era?

[bluephantom87]

Most media and ex players never liked the way the Colts were put together too small to be physical but fast. Whispers are that Bill's eye for talent is slipping and that he's a hard guy to deal with wanting total control in all matters. Going in you know his son Chris (not liked by many based on inside reports) will come along in some capacity. Do you view him as the guy who masterminded the Colts to the most wins in a decade in NFL history? Or a guy who the game is passing by and simply rode the Peyton express. I ponder those thoughts after watching franchise guys like Brady, big Ben and Eli win multiple rings with the TEAMS & coaching staff that their gms assembled. Add to the fact that Brees and Rogers along with the trio mentioned have time to add more 's which brings me back to Bill. He deserves credit (by drafting the GOAT alone) for the turnaround of the franchise but he also carries MUCH of the blame for the many playoff failures that diminished the record regular season wins by failing or refusing to address team needs that sent flawed teams yearly to the postseason with weak o-lines (3rd and 1's anybody), undersized defenses that relied way too much on Freeney and Mathis or Bob to be healthy, horrendous special team play that seemed to get worse every year and a subpar coaching staff. To me Polian's ego was his worst enemy. Poor draft picks in the end, with undrafted FA all over the roster and no backup qb (led to 2-14 last year) but still winning (even a SB a few yrs back) was a testament to the greatness and durability of 18 despite the above mentioned problems. So me personally I would pass for a young upstart with room to grow and fresh ideas than a guy set in his ways believing his own hype that wants to control the coach, media etc. BUT on a bad team with nothing to lose I might give him a shot short term.

[CR91]

bills faults follow him back to buffalo. everywhere he went he built a top offense, but refused to work on the defense and thats where the fault lies. offense can only take you so far. to me he just never knew how to balance the structure of a franchise for both sides of the ball.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I wouldn't hire him as a mgr of a streetside hot dog stand!

[IndyTrav]

No.

He hasn't done anything since roughly 06.

I get so tired of hearing how he "found" Garçon and Collie and McAfee as a testament to how he still picked good players. Every team in the NFL has solid contributors to there team that were drafted in later rounds. Every. Single. One. So how does that make him better than anyone else?

[Superman]

Yes, but for no more than five years.

[IndyTrav]

Yes, but for no more than five years.

Why is that? Would this be for a team with early picks?

Are you assuming he would quickly bring in quality offensive players? And then allow your next new GM to build around them?

I guess I'm just curious about the 5yr time limit

[Superman]

Why is that? Would this be for a team with early picks?

Are you assuming he would quickly bring in quality offensive players? And then allow your next new GM to build around them?

I guess I'm just curious about the 5yr time limit

I think he knows how to build a team. I'm assuming the team in question has been floundering for a little while, let's say the Jaguars or the Browns or something. He'll lock down a lot of outside influence, get rid of a lot of dead weight, and he'll hire a scouting staff that will scour the country looking for collegiate talent. And no matter how you feel about his drafting over the past few seasons, he always had an eye for talent. I'd make him bring in a consultant or two who have no loyalties to him as a counter-balance, someone who would challenge him. And I would give a directive to explore every single avenue of adding talent, not just focusing on the draft.

The reason for the five year limit is because that's more than enough time for him to leave his stamp on the team and the staff, root out some problems, and get the train back on the tracks. But I wouldn't want to be in the position that Irsay found himself in here recently, where it was unclear who the top dog in the building was. Polian has been a polarizing, if not divisive factor, everywhere he's been. He's damaged media relations with the Buffalo media, the Carolina media, and the Indy media. And he showed signs of nepotism here. By limiting his term, it would allow him to work with autonomy, without regard for the politics, but it would impress upon his staff and the rest of the football world that the job will be available in short order, so get yourself ready.

I think you and others may disagree about his potential virtues, and that's fine. We can hash it out, sure, but I think maybe we've already done this a half dozen or so times in the last few months. I think highly of his ability as a talent evaluator and team builder, and I think he could help an unfocused team get back on the right track. But too much of him isn't good.

[JCPatriot]

Depends on the team. If we are talking about an established contendor that is looking to get over the hump and become dominant (i.e. Ravens, Chargers, Saints), then no. If we are talking about a team that has been struggling in futility for years to become a contendor (i.e. Bills, Panthers, Rams, Browns), then yes. Polian was very good at building up bad teams and making them relevant again. He often struggled when it came to making the final tweaks to make his teams dominant, though.

[bavanlan]

I love Bill Polian, but one of Bill's biggest strengths was to surround himself with smart, talented football evaluators. Those individuals, not just Bill, have moved on and retired, so I'm not sure a team moving forward would be able to take advantage of one facet of what made Bill such a good evaluator of talent.

[IndyTrav]

I think you and others may disagree about his potential virtues, and that's fine. We can hash it out, sure, but I think maybe we've already done this a half dozen or so times in the last few months. I think highly of his ability as a talent evaluator and team builder, and I think he could help an unfocused team get back on the right track. But too much of him isn't good.

I can get behind that. I think where you and I disagree is the fact the I think he HAD an eye for talent, albeit on one side of the ball. I simply think the game has passed him by, much like it did for Al Davis and Jerry Jones.

[JCPatriot]

I can get behind that. I think where you and I disagree is the fact the I think he HAD an eye for talent, albeit on one side of the ball. I simply think the game has passed him by, much like it did for Al Davis and Jerry Jones.

The thing is, we don't know how much of the drafting and personnel decisions over the past few years have been under his control and how much have been under his son's control. We can speculate, but at the end of the day neither of us know. If he has been pulling the strings the past few years, then I think you have a strong case that he is slipping. If his son has been mostly in charge, then that proves nothing other than that his son is not a chip off the old block. Now, even if his son was in charge, that does not completely absolve him. He was in charge of football operations, so if his son was not making good decisions, then it was his job to step in and do something about that.

[Superman]

I can get behind that. I think where you and I disagree is the fact the I think he HAD an eye for talent, albeit on one side of the ball. I simply think the game has passed him by, much like it did for Al Davis and Jerry Jones.

How many quality defenders has he drafted, just in Indy? Think about all the linebackers and safeties we had, Freeney and Mathis, several decent corners. Every stop he's had, he drafted good defensive players. Maybe he didn't put enough of a premium on tackles here, but he did draft and acquire some good ones. I think the direction we decided to go in, not only in emphasizing the offense but also in hiring a coach who didn't value monstrous tackles, dictated what Polian did on defense.

Where I question his ability to identify talent is on the offensive line, and even that's conditional.

And maybe the game has passed him up, but I think it's more of a situation where he started to refuse to do anything outside of what he was comfortable doing: no trades, not a player in free agency, hesitant to make draft day deals, etc. He became so stubborn and insular that we missed a lot of good opportunities.

[NewColtsFan]

I think this is a false premise......

Who would hire anyone based on one job, or their last job. You hire someone based on the totality of their resume', not just a small portion of it. And if that's too broad, then I'll say that's what I'd do if I were an owner.

I confess that while I love this website, this is the one issue that mystifies me. The vilification of Bill Polian. The man is a 5, or is it 6 time NFL Executive of the Year? He built, or helped to build 3 different Super Bowl teams. Someday, the NFL may name the Executive of the Year award after Polian, the way the Super Bowl trophy is named after Vince Lombardi.

He may not be the greatest GM of all time, but he's on the short list.

Look.... you guys are much closer to this than I am. I followed the Colts from a distance. You guys have lived and breathed and died with the Colts. So, I'll defer to you on many of the specifics.... but as someone who tries to see the Big Picture, I think Polian is great. I'd be happy to hire him.

Now, if I had to hire the son along with him, THAT might be a different story!?! :sadno:

Just one new fans perspective..... as wrong as it may be....

NewColtsFan

[IndyTrav]

How many quality defenders has he drafted, just in Indy? Think about all the linebackers and safeties we had, Freeney and Mathis, several decent corners. Every stop he's had, he drafted good defensive players. Maybe he didn't put enough of a premium on tackles here, but he did draft and acquire some good ones. I think the direction we decided to go in, not only in emphasizing the offense but also in hiring a coach who didn't value monstrous tackles, dictated what Polian did on defense.

I don't think anyone outside of Freeney/Mathis/Bethea and 2 years of Bob Sanders were anything special......how are players like Brackett/Thorton/Jackson/Hayden etc any different than any other marginal starter for the rest of the teams around the league? I wasn't asking him to land superstar talent at every position. But I do call a spade, a spade. And those guys are average at best.

Who are the recent GMs down in Hou? Casserly and? They have drafted or traded or signed just as much talent as Polian ever has, in less years. But aren't touted as supreme GMs. The only difference seems to be #18.

[lollygagger8]

NO WAY.

He may used to have "it" back in the day....but those days are long gone.

I literally jumped up and down and screamed joy to the world when I heard the Na'Polian train had finally left the station.

Bill likes to pay average players waaay too much money on their contracts. That's why we never dabbled in FA. Because we didn't have money too! Oh wait.....he did get Hank Baskett......thanks for that stellar pick up Bill.

He also would let first round draft picks that were hurt all the time stick around waaaaaay too long because he was too hard headed to admit that he had made a mistake and wouldn't cut them.

Don't even get me started on the whole Chrissy gets included in the deal....that is enough in itself to say NO all on it's own. That guy has no ability to find talent. We are finding that out now since he had alot to do with draft picks the last few years. Even Bill had to take back over the Na'Polian corner because Chris will run a simple interview into the ground.

Oh and Bill blamed our SB loss on our Offensive Line and completely dismantled it. That was the first step in his run to the looney bin.

[Flash7]

I think this is a false premise......

Who would hire anyone based on one job, or their last job. You hire someone based on the totality of their resume', not just a small portion of it. And if that's too broad, then I'll say that's what I'd do if I were an owner.

I confess that while I love this website, this is the one issue that mystifies me. The vilification of Bill Polian. The man is a 5, or is it 6 time NFL Executive of the Year? He built, or helped to build 3 different Super Bowl teams. Someday, the NFL may name the Executive of the Year award after Polian, the way the Super Bowl trophy is named after Vince Lombardi.

He may not be the greatest GM of all time, but he's on the short list.

Look.... you guys are much closer to this than I am. I followed the Colts from a distance. You guys have lived and breathed and died with the Colts. So, I'll defer to you on many of the specifics.... but as someone who tries to see the Big Picture, I think Polian is great. I'd be happy to hire him.

Now, if I had to hire the son along with him, THAT might be a different story!?! :sadno:

Just one new fans perspective..... as wrong as it may be....

NewColtsFan

You are right, to an extent. You cannot argue against the overall success the he's had as a GM. You also can make a great argument that careers tend to have a curve and that at some point, productivity decreases. Polian most recently has had a number of misses, as opposed to when he started with the Colts. He has also been more hands-off. If I were to chart his sucess, the past few years would show a decline, so much so, that you may consider it an outlier compared to the success that he's broadly had for a majority of his career.

If I were hiring a GM, I would strongly take this into consideration. It appears that he no longer has the desire to get down to the nitty-gritty and deal with the everyday study of players to make well-informed choices. To me, it would look like he had a great career but would not be the right guy for my organization.

[Superman]

I don't think anyone outside of Freeney/Mathis/Bethea and 2 years of Bob Sanders were anything special......how are players like Brackett/Thorton/Jackson/Hayden etc any different than any other marginal starter for the rest of the teams around the league? I wasn't asking him to land superstar talent at every position. But I do call a spade, a spade. And those guys are average at best.

Those are the players that teams are made up of, guys you get in the 4th and 5th rounds and in collegiate free agency that you need to round out your roster. Other decent players over the years like Idrees Bashir, Mike Doss, etc., who played well for a few seasons for us. Not standouts, won't be in the media guide, but good defensive picks. You say you don't expect superstars with every pick, but it kind of sounds like you do.

Look at the contracts some of our walk-away guys got from other teams: Mike Peterson, Marcus Washington, David Thornton, all got significant contract from other teams. Nick Harper got a nice contract. Cato June got a nice contract. Not All Pros, but solid players on defense that Polian drafted.

And then, you just gloss over two of the best defensive ends in football for the last decade, plus two Pro Bowl safeties, one of which won DPOY.

The overall meme that you're pushing is that Polian either neglected the defense entirely or had no eye for defensive talent. And I disagree with both of those thoughts.

Who are the recent GMs down in Hou? Casserly and? They have drafted or traded or signed just as much talent as Polian ever has, in less years. But aren't touted as supreme GMs. The only difference seems to be #18.

I'm not comparing him to anyone else. He's certainly not the only good GM in the league over the past couple of decades. Guys like Ozzie Newsome and Jerry Reese almost never get any credit for what they do for their teams, but they are among the very best of the last five to ten years. I could continue if I needed to. But if I owned a team that needed to be set straight, I'd definitely consider Polian. I'm not saying he'd be the only guy on the list, but he'd be on the list.

By the way, he and Irsay deserve credit for choosing Manning. The consensus wasn't nearly as strong with Manning as the best prospect as it was with Luck this year, or with other quarterbacks in recent years. Out of ten experts, probably 3 or 4 would have chosen Ryan Leaf.

[ztboiler]

I think this is a false premise......

Who would hire anyone based on one job, or their last job. You hire someone based on the totality of their resume', not just a small portion of it. And if that's too broad, then I'll say that's what I'd do if I were an owner.

I confess that while I love this website, this is the one issue that mystifies me. The vilification of Bill Polian. The man is a 5, or is it 6 time NFL Executive of the Year? He built, or helped to build 3 different Super Bowl teams. Someday, the NFL may name the Executive of the Year award after Polian, the way the Super Bowl trophy is named after Vince Lombardi.

He may not be the greatest GM of all time, but he's on the short list.

Look.... you guys are much closer to this than I am. I followed the Colts from a distance. You guys have lived and breathed and died with the Colts. So, I'll defer to you on many of the specifics.... but as someone who tries to see the Big Picture, I think Polian is great. I'd be happy to hire him.

Now, if I had to hire the son along with him, THAT might be a different story!?! :sadno:

Just one new fans perspective..... as wrong as it may be....

NewColtsFan

Nicely said. I am a long time Colts fan. I am both grateful for the Polian/Manning run while realistic about the short comings that prevented Manning's ceiling from being as high as it should have been. If the question is "Would you hire Bill Polian?" and the answer is no, then you are making your decision on non-football issues. Most wins in a decade (a decade in the free agency era to boot), in a decade that included the Patriots dynasty, and Bill Polian was the overseer - end of discussion. I don't care who your QB is, that is an accomplishment that requires a great executive. Yes, he can work for my team.

[21isSuperman]

I would bring him back on a short leash. There were reports that he was sticking his nose into how Coyer was running the defense. I would make sure that wouldn't happen and he would stick to scouting/player personnel. I also would make sure that he doesn't bring Chris with him and if he says they are a package, I wouldn't hire him.

[bavanlan]

I think this is a false premise......

Who would hire anyone based on one job, or their last job. You hire someone based on the totality of their resume', not just a small portion of it. And if that's too broad, then I'll say that's what I'd do if I were an owner.

Simply for the purpose of antagonizing:

While it's fair to look at the totality of a resume, you also need to see which way it's trending.

[#12]

Absolutely not. Aside from drafting Manning, his Indianapolis record is a borderline failure. Outside of anything Manning could control - the passing game - the Colts were at, or near, the bottom of the league in every aspect of the game during his 14 years. Luckily for him, though, he came in, and went out, with Manning, so some will always attribute whatever success the Colts had to him.

[#12]

Simply for the purpose of antagonizing:

While it's fair to look at the totality of a resume, you also need to see which way it's trending.

Obviously.

[braveheartcolt]

Nicely said. I am a long time Colts fan. I am both grateful for the Polian/Manning run while realistic about the short comings that prevented Manning's ceiling from being as high as it should have been. If the question is "Would you hire Bill Polian?" and the answer is no, then you are making your decision on non-football issues. Most wins in a decade (a decade in the free agency era to boot), in a decade that included the Patriots dynasty, and Bill Polian was the overseer - end of discussion. I don't care who your QB is, that is an accomplishment that requires a great executive. Yes, he can work for my team.

"I don't care who your QB is"....sums it up really. He produced one of the worst teams we've seen in the NFL for a while......without 'the QB'. He lucked out on Peyton - take him away, and he was pretty much a liabiliy....

[ztboiler]

"I don't care who your QB is"....sums it up really. He produced one of the worst teams we've seen in the NFL for a while......without 'the QB'. He lucked out on Peyton - take him away, and he was pretty much a liabiliy....

You can fault him for building around Peyton - a fault he has admitted to - but it was purposeful...and a purpose that lead to a record for # of wins in a decade. It was really never a team that was built to win a game without Peyton...and they pretty much proved that. But, for the purpose they built it for, it was exquisite - and the gamble paid off because 18 stayed healthy for 13 seasons. The run was simply over. All good things come to an end. I'm glad they made the change, but we can't act like what we had didn't work.

[GoColts8818]

I would but I think it's a moot point I think bill polian is done being a GM he was winding things down in indy leading to retirement and I think that was part of the problem. He was giving more and more power to his son.

[oldunclemark]

Most media and ex players never liked the way the Colts were put together too small to be physical but fast. Whispers are that Bill's eye for talent is slipping and that he's a hard guy to deal with wanting total control in all matters. Going in you know his son Chris (not liked by many based on inside reports) will come along in some capacity. Do you view him as the guy who masterminded the Colts to the most wins in a decade in NFL history? Or a guy who the game is passing by and simply rode the Peyton express. I ponder those thoughts after watching franchise guys like Brady, big Ben and Eli win multiple rings with the TEAMS & coaching staff that their gms assembled. Add to the fact that Brees and Rogers along with the trio mentioned have time to add more 's which brings me back to Bill. He deserves credit (by drafting the GOAT alone) for the turnaround of the franchise but he also carries MUCH of the blame for the many playoff failures that diminished the record regular season wins by failing or refusing to address team needs that sent flawed teams yearly to the postseason with weak o-lines (3rd and 1's anybody), undersized defenses that relied way too much on Freeney and Mathis or Bob to be healthy, horrendous special team play that seemed to get worse every year and a subpar coaching staff. To me Polian's ego was his worst enemy. Poor draft picks in the end, with undrafted FA all over the roster and no backup qb (led to 2-14 last year) but still winning (even a SB a few yrs back) was a testament to the greatness and durability of 18 despite the above mentioned problems. So me personally I would pass for a young upstart with room to grow and fresh ideas than a guy set in his ways believing his own hype that wants to control the coach, media etc. BUT on a bad team with nothing to lose I might give him a shot short term.

Yes..he did more than just build the Colts as others have said...

He's a proven winner in more than one town

[#12]

BTW, a poster on another site came up with a fitting term for the rebuilding process: we're not rebuilding, we're depolianizing. We're going through depolianization.

[IndyTrav]

Those are the players that teams are made up of, guys you get in the 4th and 5th rounds and in collegiate free agency that you need to round out your roster. Other decent players over the years like Idrees Bashir, Mike Doss, etc., who played well for a few seasons for us. Not standouts, won't be in the media guide, but good defensive picks. You say you don't expect superstars with every pick, but it kind of sounds like you do.

Look at the contracts some of our walk-away guys got from other teams: Mike Peterson, Marcus Washington, David Thornton, all got significant contract from other teams. Nick Harper got a nice contract. Cato June got a nice contract. Not All Pros, but solid players on defense that Polian drafted.

And then, you just gloss over two of the best defensive ends in football for the last decade, plus two Pro Bowl safeties, one of which won DPOY.

The overall meme that you're pushing is that Polian either neglected the defense entirely or had no eye for defensive talent. And I disagree with both of those thoughts.

Which is exactly my point. Why does Polian gain kudos for drafting those types, "round out your roster" players as if he was the only one smart enough to do it. The man was here for 14 years, and I count 4 quality Def. players. Im not 'glossing over' Freeney/Mathis/Sanders/Bethea, I give him credit for those selections.

And those players you mentioned also never fufilled those contracts, outside of Marcus Washington, and were out of the league after leaving the team that signed them. I consider that telling.

[NewColtsFan]

I received three responses so far from my post. Good and fair responses all.

I'd like to amend my comment. As much as I like Polian, and I do, as a possible owner, I'm also of the belief that being a GM of a team -- any team, in any sport -- is more and more becoming a young man's game. The 24/7/365 nature of sports is relentless. And after a while, it takes a toll. Mentally, physically, you name it.

So maybe someone like Polian now is better as a Senior Adviser to the owner. Something where he can give input when he wants, but the day-to-day operations are done with someone with fresh blood. I think Grigson is about 40-45? I think that's close. I think Polian is likely 60-65?

I'm not trying to be ageist here. I'm 55, and sensitive to the issue. But at some point, youth has to be served..... both on the field and in the front office. And I say that as someone who highly values the experience, perspective and wisdom that living a long life can bring.

NCF

[Superman]

Which is exactly my point. Why does Polian gain kudos for drafting those types, "round out your roster" players as if he was the only one smart enough to do it. The man was here for 14 years, and I count 4 quality Def. players. Im not 'glossing over' Freeney/Mathis/Sanders/Bethea, I give him credit for those selections.

And those players you mentioned also never fufilled those contracts, outside of Marcus Washington, and were out of the league after leaving the team that signed them. I consider that telling.

No, you're missing my point. I'm not giving him kudos for those draft picks, as if no other GM has ever drafted a guy like David Thornton in the 4th round. I'm saying that those were decent picks on the defensive side of the ball who played a role for our team. You're the one saying that he had no eye for talent on defense, as if he was somehow worse than other GMs.

And when you draft a guy who signs a nice second contract with another team, it probably means that he looked like a solid pro while he was on his first contract. What he does on that second contract isn't your problem.

As for your "four quality defensive players in 14 years," either you have really high standards, or we disagree on what a quality defensive player is. The four you mention are Pro Bowl, top five at their position players. Outstanding players, one was a 5th rounder and another was a 6th rounder. Guys like Nick Harper, Mike Peterson, Larry Tripplett, etc., were quality defensive players. Not stars, but good players who helped the team. And those were Polian picks.

[Mameluc]

freeney mathis and bruce smith have to count for some pretty good Defensive drafting no?

[Gavin]

I wouldn't bring him back. Taking into account the position that he drafted 102 of those draft picks (I am excluding his last draft class because one year just isnt enough time to tell if any player worked out) but taking out account the position those 102 players were drafted most have under produced such as

Jerry Hughes-1st round pick (strictly speaking of his special teams play)

Kevin Thomas-3rd round pick

Jacques Mclendon-4th round pick

Donald Brown-1st round pick, hes a first round pick, I expected better

Fili Moala-2nd round pick

Jerraud Powers- 3rd round pick

Mike Pollak- 2nd round pick

Phillip Wheeler-3rd round pick

Anthony Gonzales-1st round pick

Ton Ugoh-second round pick

Dante Hughes-3rd round pick

Quin Pitcock-3rd round pick

Brandon Condren-4th round pick

Clint Session-showed two promisng years and nothing since

Tim Jennings-2nd round pick

Freddie Keiaho-3rd round pick

Kelvin Hayden-2nd round pick

Marlin Jackson-1st round pick

Vincent Burns-3rd round pick

Dylan Gandy-4th round pick

Matt Giordano-4th round pick

Bob Sanders-yes I know he had talent and was a Pro Bowler but only had 2 great years the rest was injury prone, the guy was a 2nd round pick after all

Kendyll Pope-4th round pick

Jason David--4th round pick

Gilbert Gardner 3rd round

Ben Hartsock-3rd

Mike Doss-had a very good rookie year for us and very little since-out of football now-2nd round pick

Donald Strickland-3rd round pick

Steve Sciullo-4th round pick

Larry Tripplett-2nd round pick

Joseph Jefferson-3rd round pick

Idrees Bashir-2nd round pick

Cory Bird-3rd round pick

Rob Morris-1st round pick

Dave Macklin-3rd round pick

Josh Wlliams-4th round pick

Mike Peterson-had 1 great season for us-2nd round pick

Brandon Burlesworth-3rd round pick

Paul Miranda-4th round pick

Jerome Pathon-2nd round pick

E.G. Green-3rd round pick

Steve-Mckinney-4th round

None of that is to say he didnt have good to great draft picks such as Manning of course, Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Edgerrin, Jake Scott, Bethea, Clint Session, Pierre Garcon, Pat Mcafee, Dallas Clark, But heck he had drafts where he only hit on 1-2 guys and even had a couple drafts that he didnt hit at all on any picks, he missed far more then he hit

[Gavin]

You can fault him for building around Peyton - a fault he has admitted to - but it was purposeful...and a purpose that lead to a record for # of wins in a decade. It was really never a team that was built to win a game without Peyton...and they pretty much proved that. But, for the purpose they built it for, it was exquisite - and the gamble paid off because 18 stayed healthy for 13 seasons. The run was simply over. All good things come to an end. I'm glad they made the change, but we can't act like what we had didn't work.

I agree to an extent, but what he had was Manning, their are other teams in the league where starting quarterbacks have went down and were just fine, he just simply made our players look good

[Superman]

I wouldn't bring him back. Taking into account the position that he drafted 102 of those draft picks (I am excluding his last draft class because one year just isnt enough time to tell if any player worked out) but taking out account the position those 102 players were drafted most have under produced such as

Jerry Hughes-1st round pick (strictly speaking of his special teams play)

Kevin Thomas-3rd round pick

Jacques Mclendon-4th round pick

Donald Brown-1st round pick, hes a first round pick, I expected better

Fili Moala-2nd round pick

Jerraud Powers- 3rd round pick

Mike Pollak- 2nd round pick

Phillip Wheeler-3rd round pick

Anthony Gonzales-1st round pick

Ton Ugoh-second round pick

Dante Hughes-3rd round pick

Quin Pitcock-3rd round pick

Brandon Condren-4th round pick

Clint Session-showed two promisng years and nothing since

Tim Jennings-2nd round pick

Freddie Keiaho-3rd round pick

Kelvin Hayden-2nd round pick

Marlin Jackson-1st round pick

Vincent Burns-3rd round pick

Dylan Gandy-4th round pick

Matt Giordano-4th round pick

Bob Sanders-yes I know he had talent and was a Pro Bowler but only had 2 great years the rest was injury prone, the guy was a 2nd round pick after all

Kendyll Pope-4th round pick

Jason David--4th round pick

Gilbert Gardner 3rd round

Ben Hartsock-3rd

Mike Doss-had a very good rookie year for us and very little since-out of football now-2nd round pick

Donald Strickland-3rd round pick

Steve Sciullo-4th round pick

Larry Tripplett-2nd round pick

Joseph Jefferson-3rd round pick

Idrees Bashir-2nd round pick

Cory Bird-3rd round pick

Rob Morris-1st round pick

Dave Macklin-3rd round pick

Josh Wlliams-4th round pick

Mike Peterson-had 1 great season for us-2nd round pick

Brandon Burlesworth-3rd round pick

Paul Miranda-4th round pick

Jerome Pathon-2nd round pick

E.G. Green-3rd round pick

Steve-Mckinney-4th round

None of that is to say he didnt have good to great draft picks such as Manning of course, Wayne, Freeney, Mathis, Edgerrin, Jake Scott, Bethea, Clint Session, Pierre Garcon, Pat Mcafee, Dallas Clark, But heck he had drafts where he only hit on 1-2 guys and even had a couple drafts that he didnt hit at all on any picks, he missed far more then he hit

Reading this post makes me wonder a lot of things about you. You must have incredibly high standards. I just shake my head.

[Gavin]

Reading this post makes me wonder a lot of things about you. You must have incredibly high standards. I just shake my head.

Given the rounds that those players were drafted in then of course I do, you mean you havent expected more out of 2nd round pick Fili Moala? 1st round pick Rob Morris? 2nd round pick Idrees Bashir? 1st round pick Marlin Jackson? 2nd round pick Larry Tripplet? 1st round pick Jerry Hughes? (yes on special teams, not as a starter given who we have had starting) I wouldn't say I have high standards but all of those were starters at one time or another and nothing near very good or great, yes I expect something better then what we got out of them given where Polian drafted them and I am sure Polian did to, you dont draft players that high to be mediocre or below mediocre at best

[Superman]

Given the rounds that those players were drafted in then of course I do, you mean you havent expected more out of 2nd round pick Fili Moala? 1st round pick Rob Morris? 2nd round pick Idrees Bashir? 1st round pick Marlin Jackson? 2nd round pick Larry Tripplet? 1st round pick Jerry Hughes? (yes on special teams, not as a starter given who we have had starting) I wouldn't say I have high standards but all of those were starters at one time or another and nothing near very good or great, yes I expect something better then what we got out of them given where Polian drafted them and I am sure Polian did to, you dont draft players that high to be mediocre or below mediocre at best

Larry Tripplett was a worthy 2nd rounder. We let him walk in free agency because we couldn't afford to give him what the Bills were giving him. Rob Morris wasn't close to being a star, so you can question his first round status, but he was decent. He was also a player that didn't fit Dungy's idea of a middle linebacker, so he kind of got the short end when Mora got fired. But we got a good four years out of him before he lost his spot to Brackett, and even that was mostly because of a contract dispute. I could go on.

No doubt there have been some misses, but most of my shock at your post has to do with your evaluation of players like Bob Sanders (great draft pick), Anthony Gonzalez (good draft pick), Mike Peterson (great), Clint Session (great), etc. How you can complain about those draft picks is beyond me. You must date the hottest girl on the block.

And then there's Kevin Thomas, just finishing year one, Jerraud Powers, a starter, etc. I don't know what you expect from a GM's draft track record if you have a problem with these picks.

For every Jerry Hughes, there's a Robert Mathis. I really, strongly, disagree with your opinion on most of that list. To me, it's not even worth going over in any detail. We're on different planets right now.

[oldunclemark]

The GM put together a playoff team almost every year and nonody makes the playoffs EVERY year

Polian did what you want a pro GM to do.

Forget individual drafts..Look at the big picture

we were very good for a decade

[ztboiler]

Larry Tripplett was a worthy 2nd rounder. We let him walk in free agency because we couldn't afford to give him what the Bills were giving him. Rob Morris wasn't close to being a star, so you can question his first round status, but he was decent. He was also a player that didn't fit Dungy's idea of a middle linebacker, so he kind of got the short end when Mora got fired. But we got a good four years out of him before he lost his spot to Brackett, and even that was mostly because of a contract dispute. I could go on.

No doubt there have been some misses, but most of my shock at your post has to do with your evaluation of players like Bob Sanders (great draft pick), Anthony Gonzalez (good draft pick), Mike Peterson (great), Clint Session (great), etc. How you can complain about those draft picks is beyond me. You must date the hottest girl on the block.

And then there's Kevin Thomas, just finishing year one, Jerraud Powers, a starter, etc. I don't know what you expect from a GM's draft track record if you have a problem with these picks.

For every Jerry Hughes, there's a Robert Mathis. I really, strongly, disagree with your opinion on most of that list. To me, it's not even worth going over in any detail. We're on different planets right now.

Great point, and if you look at any teams draft record under the same microscope you will likely get a similar result. One of the best Polian quotes I can think of is his best defense in this matter. I paraphrase, but someone was praising him on the call in show during the good times and he minimized success to this: All teams have a lot of misses, the difference between good teams and bad teams is that the good teams hit 55% of the time vs. 45% of the time for the bad teams.

Of course it is an arbitrary #, but the point is that it is a very thin margin of difference when projecting players....and all GM's have a litany of misses to their credit.

[mark5362]

It's a hard question. If you take Peyton out of it, what would we have had under bill? At the same time you could lay that on any gm with or without peyton. without peyton, I think the drafts would have been diffrent. so?

[Gavin]

The GM put together a playoff team almost every year and nonody makes the playoffs EVERY year

Polian did what you want a pro GM to do.

Forget individual drafts..Look at the big picture

we were very good for a decade

and take one player away and how good were we? 2-14 good Manning made everyone better then they were around him , yes I expect 1st rounders to be very good yes I expect 2nd rounders to be almost as good, I never said he didnt find some gems but alot of fools gold as for forget the individual drafts that would be nice but fact is he had alot of duds at draft day some mediocre guys and a few gems but far and away more duds