Colts released Shaq Leonard

[w87r]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

True, but only like half the team is signed through '24 I believe? And, some of the guys who need signing are going to want big contracts.

We actually have 42 players under contract for '24 already. That is a decent carryover (11th most, only 5 behind leader).

 

Do have some big decisions to make though on some big dollar contracts. Pretty good chunk of top 53.

 

 

Then will sign future contracts to PS players, so we will go into the offseason with 40-42 of top 53, and another 12-16 future contracts.

54-60 players.

 

Resign a few, bring in couple FAs, and 7-8 draft picks and we are up to 75-80 players most likely.

[coltsfeva]

  I’m remembering the ouch out a couple of years ago against the Texans; at his prime, he was a difference maker.
  But he really was a shell of his former self an a liability on the field. Add to that his comments made in frustration (which became a distraction)  and I’m not surprised by this, at all.

   

   That being said, wish him well (just NOT against us)! 
  

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

About $43m, with little returned. But no one knew he was going to be significantly compromised by injury for two years in a row. And he was a perfect fit for the defense we were running at the time. I don't think the contract was a mistake. But the circumstances changed dramatically in the two years after the contract was done.

 

I think the bolded is slightly undermined by cutting a five time (and current) team captain, a guy who has a banner on the side of the stadium, two days before Thanksgiving. I'm not saying players won't come to Indy, but I don't think they deserve a pat on the back right now.

 

Hard to argue anything in the 2nd paragraph, but at the end of the day I do think they did what was best for him. Ends justify the Means? IDK?

 

 

Timing is always going to be tough, this close to holidays even more so, but it also allows him to find a new home quicker.

 

 

As far as the $43m, yeah didn't get much return looking back, but like you said, I don't think the contract was a mistake either. Easy to say in retrospect, but at the time, our own home grown All Pro player was retained and kept in Indy, rather than seeing him walk elsewhere. Just didn't workout, unfortunately.

 

 

The best part about this is hopefully we don't have to read to much more about this as the season progresses and into the offseason. Won't be any ambiguity about the situation, it has been resolved.

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

This is interesting.

 

 

I hope that means he's at least half decent in coverage. We need that from our LBs.

[colts89]

9 minutes ago, husker61 said:

He wasn’t playing well and got released. That’s what happens in all sports. He is financially set for life, probably better than almost everyone here and has his health(maybe not previous football health). He will be fine and continue to do community work if he chooses. 
 

I have a feeling the owner will continue to make mistakes with big contracts to colts players. That’s just who he is. Manning and luck were no brainers, but so many others were bad and I have said it for years.

How was giving Leonard the contract when he was healthy a mistake? Do the Colts FO have an all seeing crystal glass that will let them know if an All Pro player will get seriously injured? If so, then the Luck contract was also a mistake lmao.

[Dobbinblitz]

22 minutes ago, w87r said:

Thanks - Fixed!

[RollerColt]

17 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

One thing is practically certain.  Gus will be back.  This move sealed it for me.

I really hope not, but you’re probably right. 
 

Gus’s scheme is as antiquated as Reich’s. You just can’t play like that against the top offenses of the league. 

[NFLfan]

 

 

Wow. What happened? I thought the Colts were happy with Leonard. Colts fans loved this guy.

[RollerColt]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

Wow. What happened? I thought the Colts were happy with Leonard. Colts fans loved this guy.

I guess Gus Bradley got his way. 

[Superman]

9 minutes ago, w87r said:

The best part about this is hopefully we don't have to read to much more about this as the season progresses and into the offseason. Won't be any ambiguity about the situation, it has been resolved.

 

Yeah, that's one thing I was wrong about. I thought this was a March decision. Still think it should have been, but we'll see.

[Colt Overseas]

It’s a pity we didn’t re-sign Bobby Okereke last off season. I understand why, as Leonard was coming back from injury. But he played the WLB really well alongside Zaire last season. I wonder if there is a way we could trade for him, probably not.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Here is Bradley’s presser from earlier. I think this is so encouraging about the self scout process and using players on different ways.

 

 

1 minute ago, Colt Overseas said:

It’s a pity we didn’t re-sign Bobby Okereke last off season. I understand why, as Leonard was coming back from injury. But he played the WLB really well alongside Zaire last season. I wonder if there is a way we could trade for him, probably not.

Giants are pretty bad. Maybe?

[w87r]

1 minute ago, NFLfan said:

Wow. What happened?

Lol

 

Get to reading. Speculation, facts, truth, appreciation, disdain, it's all in there somewhere.

 

 

I think it boiled down to a few things.

1. Leonard had a $6.5m injury only guarantee next season.

2. He wasn't happy about being told he would be inactive.

3. Colts save $12m next year with move(although that wouldn't of changed of we waited till end of season)

3. Colts seemed to decide to give him a chance to catch on somewhere else to end the season and get a chance to play.

 

 

Just wish they had better dialogue about the situation than it seems they had.

[Dobbinblitz]

It seems clear entering the season the Colts were expecting Leonard to return to previous form this season. The let Okereke walk; who is currently the 14th ranked linebacker on PFF for the season. Okereke maintains an 82.3 score in pass coverage. There is no Colts Linebacker anywhere near this in defending the pass.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Here is Bradley’s presser from earlier. I think this is so encouraging about the self scout process and using players on different ways.

 

 

Giants are pretty bad. Maybe?

Let’s see how he does against Mike Evans and Godwin.
 

This is the same defense that allowed PJ Walker to score 39 points… and Derek Carr 38 points…  

[csmopar]

8 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I guess Gus Bradley got his way. 

Not that I like Gus, but I’d like to know what you’re basing that on

[hoosierhawk]

3 hours ago, krunk said:

I didn't think he fit Gus scheme well. Might do better if you get him back in the cover 2 at Will like he used to be. Eberflus may give him another shot. Or another 2 deep squad. There was no room for him. The two starters are healthier and playing better than him.

When you run around and avoid contact I don't think you fit anyone's scheme. I have heard so much that it's Bradley's scheme but whose scheme would he fit in playing as he has been all year?

[Solid84]

31 minutes ago, w87r said:

We actually have 42 players under contract for '24 already. That is a decent carryover (11th most, only 5 behind leader).

 

Do have some big decisions to make though on some big dollar contracts. Pretty good chunk of top 53.

 

 

Then will sign future contracts to PS players, so we will go into the offseason with 40-42 of top 53, and another 12-16 future contracts.

54-60 players.

 

Resign a few, bring in couple FAs, and 7-8 draft picks and we are up to 75-80 players most likely.

My bad, I thought I read somewhere we had like 24 free agents after this season.

[csmopar]

9 minutes ago, Colt Overseas said:

It’s a pity we didn’t re-sign Bobby Okereke last off season. I understand why, as Leonard was coming back from injury. But he played the WLB really well alongside Zaire last season. I wonder if there is a way we could trade for him, probably not.

Not until March

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, Dobbinblitz said:

It seems clear entering the season the Colts were expecting Leonard to return to previous form this season. The let Okereke walk; who is currently the 14th ranked linebacker on PFF for the season. Okereke maintains an 82.3 score in pass coverage. There is no Colts Linebacker anywhere near this in defending the pass.

Very good in coverage. We will see what speed does with more snaps.

[csmopar]

16 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

 

Wow. What happened? I thought the Colts were happy with Leonard. Colts fans loved this guy.

The two sides had a meeting requested by Shaq, some things were relayed that he didn’t like, per his own admission . They told him he was gonna be inactive. Then released him. 
 

 

those are the only facts we actually know at this time, everything else is speculation 

[Solid84]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Here is Bradley’s presser from earlier. I think this is so encouraging about the self scout process and using players on different ways.

 

 

Giants are pretty bad. Maybe?

Okereke is having a great season with the Giants. Trading for him will likely cost more than what Ballard wants to give.

[John Hammonds]

I'll say it again.  Do not discount the wisdom of Old Sailors.

It's bad luck to change the name of a ship.

 

2020 - Justin Houston changed his jersey from 99 to his old 50 from the Chiefs.

The following year he was gone.

2021 - Parris Campbell changed his jersey from 15to 1.

After 2022 season, he was gone.

2021 - Darius Leonard asks for everyone to use his middle name, Shaquille.

He was injured all of 2022, and after a ho-hum 2023 got released.

 

On the opposite end, Anthony DORset was drafted by the Cowboys, and the media mistakenly called him Tony DorSETT.

And he just ran with it.

All the way into the Hall of Fame.

[w87r]

36 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

why not let him finish the season to see if he improves over time?   i just dont get the timing of this move , if he is still bad at the end of the year i would agree to cut him .  are we really saving that much cap space to cut him now ?  it bothers me to treat a star player like this and could hurt the locker room .

Yeah, IDK, what everyone is kinda wondering.

 

 

Cap wise there is no difference, outside of if we waited till off-season we could of designated him as a June 1st cut and saved an additional $4m next season($16m) (pushed $4m to '25). So cap clearly had no part of it.

 

He was allegedly told he would be inactive the rest of the season, so this allows him to possibly catch on somewhere else and play. Which I think is his ultimate desire, he wasn't going to get that here though it seems.

 

 

 

Like I said it looks as if they did him dirty, and timing wise, it isn't ideal to say the least. Although it's never a "good" time, but in the end I think this was probably the best move for both parties at the end of the day. With where the situation has ended up.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

When it comes to accountability. Shaq blaming the scheme and coached didn’t help his cause. He would have been better off talking about how hard he is working to try and get back. He basically took no accountability for hid bad play.

[hoosierhawk]

2 hours ago, Never_Quit said:

My guess: Leonard clears waivers and then sits out the rest of the season after signing to the Bears practice squad.

 

Flus will believe he can fix him Reich and Wentz style.

Doubt Flus will be there next year.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

If they are trying to make a playoff push they were going to make him inactive. That’s why it was done now.  

[KB]

7 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

I'll say it again.  Do not discount the wisdom of Old Sailors.

It's bad luck to change the name of a ship.

 

2020 - Justin Houston changed his jersey from 99 to his old 50 from the Chiefs.

The following year he was gone.

2021 - Parris Campbell changed his jersey from 15to 1.

After 2022 season, he was gone.

2021 - Darius Leonard asks for everyone to use his middle name, Shaquille.

He was injured all of 2022, and after a ho-hum 2023 got released.

 

On the opposite end, Anthony DORset was drafted by the Cowboys, and the media mistakenly called him Tony DorSETT.

And he just ran with it.

All the way into the Hall of Fame.

Because you said sailors along with this I had to share the story. I was on board the Oscar Austin (ddg 79) and I shot the 5 inch. The old guns name was Gertrude. We got a couple of new gunnersmates and they hated the name. The changed the name to something cuter. That 5 inch was down every couple days with a new problem until Chief had them only refer to her as Gertrude. Went back to that and she went back to normal operation. It's weird how things like that work.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Leonard did say today if they thought speed was playing better to make him the starter.  So I can see why it might have been strange to do this now instead of after the season. There must of been more going on.

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

Yeah, IDK, what everyone is kinda wondering.

 

 

Cap wise there is no difference, outside of if we waited till off-season we could of designated him as a June 1st cut and saved an additional $4m next season($16m) (pushed $4m to '25). So cap clearly had no part of it.

 

He was allegedly told he would be inactive the rest of the season, so this allows him to possibly catch on somewhere else and play. Which I think is his ultimate desire, he wasn't going to get that here though it seems.

 

 

 

Like I said it looks as if they did him dirty, and timing wise, it isn't ideal to say the least. Although it's never a "good" time, but in the end I think this was probably the best move for both parties at the end of the day. With where the situation has ended up.

It's just weird to me they won't give their $20m LB a chance to improve.

 

I get the injury concern with the guarantee in his contract, but then bench him and at least let him practice along side the team? Sure, he could get injured in practice as well, but they must've REALLY not wanted to risk paying him those $6.5m to not even give him at a chance like that?

[w87r]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

My bad, I thought I read somewhere we had like 24 free agents after this season.

24 sounds about right.

 

53 man roster

17 man practice squad

 

70

-42(remaining under contract)

Total 28.

 

Biggest names:

1st Tier:

Pittman

Stewart

Blackmon

Moore II

Moss

2nd Tier:(probably above minimum a little)

Lewis

Minshew

Sanchez

3rd Tier:(likely around minimum)

Pinter

Bryan

McKenzie

Tony Brown

Jake Martin

Gerard Avery

4th Tier:(ERFA) (less than minimum)

Denbow

McGrone

Olubi 

 

 

I also believe we will move on from Cox next year, savings and additional $5.9m.

 

That will have us up to around $96m in space, before signing futures.(which most won't be on the top 51 during off-season)

[RollerColt]

3 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

It's just weird to me they won't give their $20m LB a chance to improve.

 

I get the injury concern with the guarantee in his contract, but then bench him and at least let him practice along side the team? Sure, he could get injured in practice as well, but they must've REALLY not wanted to risk paying him those $6.5m to not even give him at a chance like that?

There’s always money in the banana stand. To be that worried about money, after paying him that kind of contract? 
 

I just wonder what really happened for him to get released. 

[Shive]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

Like I said it looks as if they did him dirty, and timing wise, it isn't ideal to say the least. Although it's never a "good" time, but in the end I think this was probably the best move for both parties at the end of the day. With where the situation has ended up.

I have a hard time saying they did him dirty with how much we'll still be paying him for not playing for us. Maybe at the end of the day, the pay ends up evening out for the years of insane production while he was on his rookie deal.

 

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

It's just weird to me they won't give their $20m LB a chance to improve.

 

I get the injury concern with the guarantee in his contract, but then bench him and at least let him practice along side the team? Sure, he could get injured in practice as well, but they must've REALLY not wanted to risk paying him those $6.5m to not even give him at a chance like that?

It must have come down to the conversation he had with the FO. We'll probably never know the full details, but more may come out in the next week or so. I have a feeling it was that he'd be inactive the rest of the season and released after the season and Leonard wasn't on board with that and asked to be released now.

[Solid84]

6 minutes ago, w87r said:

24 sounds about right.

 

53 man roster

17 man practice squad

 

70

-42(remaining under contract)

Total 28.

 

Biggest names:

1st Tier:

Pittman

Stewart

Blackmon

Moore II

Moss

2nd Tier:(probably above minimum a little)

Lewis

Minshew

Sanchez

3rd Tier:(likely around minimum)

Pinter

Bryan

McKenzie

Tony Brown

Jake Martin

Gerard Avery

4th Tier:(ERFA) (less than minimum)

Denbow

McGrone

Olubi 

 

 

I also believe we will move on from Cox next year, savings and additional $5.9m.

 

That will have us up to around $96m in space, before signing futures.(which most won't be on the top 51 during off-season)

I wasn't counting the guys on the practice squad. 

 

Also, do you have a guess at contracts for the tier 1 guys and where that would leave us after signing them?

[Dingus McGirt]

Darius is gone.  Long live Shaquille.  Adios.  Enjoy your millions, sir.

[Solid84]

5 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

There’s always money in the banana stand. To be that worried about money, after paying him that kind of contract? 
 

I just wonder what really happened for him to get released. 

 

5 minutes ago, Shive said:

It must have come down to the conversation he had with the FO. We'll probably never know the full details, but more may come out in the next week or so. I have a feeling it was that he'd be inactive the rest of the season and released after the season and Leonard wasn't on board with that and asked to be released now.

Yeah, there has to be something we don't know yet.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, Shive said:

I have a hard time saying they did him dirty with how much we'll still be paying him for not playing for us. Maybe at the end of the day, the pay ends up evening out for the years of insane production while he was on his rookie deal.

 

It must have come down to the conversation he had with the FO. We'll probably never know the full details, but more may come out in the next week or so. I have a feeling it was that he'd be inactive the rest of the season and released after the season and Leonard wasn't on board with that and asked to be released now.

Sources say Leonard did not ask for his release.

[w87r]

6 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

It's just weird to me they won't give their $20m LB a chance to improve.

 

I get the injury concern with the guarantee in his contract, but then bench him and at least let him practice along side the team? Sure, he could get injured in practice as well, but they must've REALLY not wanted to risk paying him those $6.5m to not even give him at a chance like that?

Like I've said a couple times, I think they just thought it was best for both sides, he gets an opportunity to play, which is what he wants, Colts clear space and don't have it lingering over the locker room daily, for the rest of the season, when we are trying to make a playoff run.

 

I don't think it would of mattered.

 

Every way Gus was using him seemed wrong.

 

In on run downs, history says he's better on passing downs.(pre injury)

Taking on blockers to free up Franklin, instead of getting freed up from blockers himself.

 

 

We all know Gus is stubborn.

 

I just hope this doesn't mean we are going to give Franklin a big extension next year....

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, w87r said:

Like I've said a couple times, I think they just thought it was best for both sides, he gets an opportunity to play, which is what he wants, Colts clear space and don't have it lingering over the locker room daily, for the rest of the season, when we are trying to make a playoff run.

 

I don't think it would of mattered.

 

Every way Gus was using him seemed wrong.

 

In on run downs, history says he's better on passing downs.(pre injury)

Taking on blockers to free up Franklin, instead of getting freed up from blockers himself.

 

 

We all know Gus is stubborn.

 

I just hope this doesn't mean we are going to give Franklin a big extension next year....

I don’t think he is stubborn. I actually think he is a players coach.  Leonard still wasn’t even making impact tackles. 

[Superman]

55 minutes ago, John Waylon said:

I thought a team claiming him had to take the contract as it was, my bad. 

I didn’t mind bearing the cap penalties to get something (i.e anything,) in return and just try to save any small amount of face. But paying the penalties to end up with nothing but peen in hand and a “thanks we’ll be seeing ya” is kind of a tough pill to swallow at the end of this journey. 

 

The cap costs are basically in stone once you include a big signing bonus, and this contract illustrates why Ballard doesn't like big signing bonuses.

 

To the rest, I don't think there's a conversation to be had about renegotiating his contract for 2023, not for the Colts, and not for any other team. No player is going to renegotiate already guaranteed money, nor should they. As I said, either keep him and pay him, or release him and pay him, but that money was gone already.

 

So either there was trade value for him, including his remaining 2023 money, and the risk of his injury-guaranteed 2024 money, or there was no trade value. It's a package deal, and that package remains in tact if he's claimed off waivers. Except there's no trade compensation if you claim him off waivers. So if no one claims him, it's pretty definitive that no one was trading for him.

 

Trying to renegotiate after the season might have been an option. But not with Bradley as DC... And honestly, I figured he'd be gone after the season anyway. He might be done. Sometimes you take an L with a big contract, I don't blame anyone for that. I just think the timing sucks.

 

And for some context, the Giants traded Leonard Williams to the Seahawks for 2nd and 5th round picks at the deadline. They are also paying $10m of Williams remaining 2023 salary; the Seahawks are paying $647k for half a season, and are getting a meaningful contributor, with no future risk. So the Giants had to pay $10m for Williams to play for another team, and they get a couple picks in exchange. What would the Colts have had to do to get another team to take on the risk of Leonard's contract, especially since his play hasn't been great?

 

I don't think there was a trade market, and I think once he clears waivers, that will be obvious. I assumed we'd keep him for the rest of the year, and figure the rest out in March. I don't like waiving him right now, though.