Updated: Colts hire Shane Steichen as their new HC (Merged)

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

 Oh come on now! I would wager Pittman and Campbell could start on the eagles. Probably even Pierce. I do agree we could use a solid #1 playmaker though.

 

Not as a WR1 or WR2. Or as a TE1. If you ranked all of the PHI and IND pass catchers (sans RB), PHI would have #1, #2 and #4.

 

Not saying Pittman is a WR3...but he would be on PHI's depth chart. So they have their work cut out for them. But that isn't something we all don't already know.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I look at KC - they have a bunch of JAGs for WRs outside a rarely healthy former first rounder in Toney. But they have different kinds. "Short area burst for quick throw YAC" types like Toney and Skyy Moore. Then "short area physical pass catchers" like JuJu and Kelce. Then only truly 1 long distance guy like MVS. Otherwise, they are essentially running a Tom Brady offense with death by a thousand paper cuts now because routes for guys like MVS take time to form as Tom Brady found out with 3 years of Randy Moss.

 

Assuming we retain Parris, Steichen should be able to mix and match them at all levels and get someone streaking on the sidelines and hit a few occasional big chunks but the majority will still be smaller chunks. Just that the smaller chunks will be of the 15-20 yard kinds instead of the 5-10 yard kinds under Matt Ryan due to his arm limitations if defenders play tight.

KC has about 4 or 5 PCs on the roster.  Sometimes they line up in the backfield, the boundary, or the slot.   Yes, its about quick twitch agility to get open and get YAC.   Its 5 Julian Edleman's.  Our offensive skilled positions are nothing like that.

 

Pechenko can get some tough yards.  For a long time, KC has not had a RB that can do that.

[Blueblood23]

7 minutes ago, Patrick Miller said:

 

I know many on this board are giddy about the apparent hiring of Steichen. I hope he does well, but he has no more wins in the NFL as you or I. The coordinators and other assistant coaches will be the more important hire to me. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

KC has about 4 or 5 PCs on the roster.  Sometimes they line up in the backfield, the boundary, or the slot.   Yes, its about quick twitch agility to get open and get YAC.   Its 5 Julian Edleman's.  Our offensive skilled positions are nothing like that.

 

Pechenko can get the tough yards.  For a long time, KC has not had a RB that can do that.

i was listening to Lombardi on his podcast and he said that Steichen will be taking that 6 pack offense with him to Indy. I think that will tell use a lot on who we see them drafting. Young...no he is way to small and will get killed if he has to run like Hurts I dont know if Stroud if athletic enough. It would probably come down to Levis and I am kind of in love with Richardson

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I don't know if I would call if a bunch of JAGs. Outside of MVS (who has been a productive WR3 type), they are all 1st and 2nd round picks (JuJu, Toney, Hardman, Moore). And with the depth, they had the luxury of using guys in different ways. Or bring a player like Moore along really slowly.

 

I wouldn't mind the Colts doing that approach, but we are likely looking at a decent vet FA and another 1-2 early picks to pull it off. 

 

 

 

Yeah, that is why I suggested Allen Lazard added, that should help diversify our WR group.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kind of funny tracking the jet.

 

 

[gspdx]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Air yards per attempt says otherwise.   

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

 

So does the number of +20, +30, +40 yard passes

[Stephen]

If we add hyatt to pierce and and pittman. Get campbell back and actually use woods and granson properly the offense will be alot better. Not to mention the other te that got hurt.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

i was listening to Lombardi on his podcast and he said that Steichen will be taking that 6 pack offense with him to Indy. I think that will tell use a lot on who we see them drafting. Young...no he is way to small and will get killed if he has to run like Hurts I dont know if Stroud if athletic enough. It would probably come down to Levis and I am kind of in love with Richardson

If we are going to have a running QB, I think the pick would be Levis or Richardson.  And I'd say Richardson doesn't deserve pick 4, so it could be a trade down or a stud defender at 4 with a trade up from 35 using pick 79.

 

The thing with Hurts is that he is more powerful than he is agile.  There are not a lot of QBs who are like that.  Most of them are smaller wiry guys.   I think Clayton Tune or Max Duggan are also like Hurts...with Tune a better passer than Duggan, IMO.

[Nickster]

22 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

I look at KC - they have a bunch of JAGs for WRs outside a rarely healthy former first rounder in Toney. But they have different kinds. "Short area burst for quick throw YAC" types like Toney and Skyy Moore. Then "short area physical pass catchers" like JuJu and Kelce. Then only truly 1 long distance guy like MVS. Otherwise, they are essentially running a Tom Brady offense with death by a thousand paper cuts now because routes for guys like MVS take time to form as Tom Brady found out with 3 years of Randy Moss.

 

Assuming we retain Parris, Steichen should be able to mix and match them at all levels and get someone streaking on the sidelines and hit a few occasional big chunks but the majority will still be smaller chunks. Just that the smaller chunks will be of the 15-20 yard kinds instead of the 5-10 yard kinds under Matt Ryan due to his arm limitations if defenders play tight.

Yeah but they have possibly the most unguardable player in the NFL at TE.  

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

So Pittman isn't starting over Quez Watkins?

 

Over Waktins, sure. But he is their WR3 who gets like 3 tgts/game. If we want to call him a starting WR, then that's fine. But I was really just talking about WR1 and WR2 and TE1. 

 

As for PC or Pierce starting over Watkins, probably up for debate because it's based on what PHI wants to do. The cool thing is the Colts will have their OC as HC, so we will get to see what type of personnel he likes. I would assume PC is re-signed for it, but I could also see them drafting someone.

 

 

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

Mahomes certainly has an all time great skill set. Among the best of the best. But there are a number of greats that could win SB's with this coaching staff and this group of players. 

I think you should listen to Lombardi's podcast. Yes Mahonnes is good but he puts a lot of blame on the Philly D coaching and that he had no hard throws. People need to get over this fascination  with the qbs  winning and losing the games and the battle between the coordinators and how incompetent they are. Gannon is an example of a coach who is elected and not selected. Phillys's D has not played anyone and I said to Philly fans that they have not played anyone and they would pay. Everyone was talking about the elite Philly D and I was like  how.  Now all the talking heads are now saying well they didn't play anyone all year. 

[shasta519]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Yeah, that is why I suggested Allen Lazard added, that should help diversify our WR group.

 

I am curious to see what type of payday he gets. It's not a pretty weak FA group and he has a solid skillset. 

 

If they went that route, I would think that maybe PC wouldn't be re-signed and they would look to draft a speedy WR. I really like Zay Flowers. Seems like that type of YAC WR they are missing.

[Moosejawcolt]

3 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If we are going to have a running QB, I think the pick would be Levis or Richardson.  And I'd say Richardson doesn't deserve pick 4, so it could be a trade down or a stud defender at 4 with a trade up from 35 using pick 79.

 

The thing with Hurts is that he is more powerful than he is agile.  There are not a lot of QBs who are like that.  Most of them are smaller wiry guys.   I think Clayton Tune or Max Duggan are also like Hurts...with Tune a better passer than Duggan, IMO.

Richardson is interesting because if he develops, we could look back and say he is an all time great and unstoppable. Of course he could also be flipping burgers in 2 years if he is a  complete dud!!

[AKB]

8 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Kind of funny tracking the jet.

 

 

wow glad this is coming to an end here soon.

im ready to hear about philosophy and seeing some colts media about the upcoming draft. 

 

hopefully we get more of the behind the scenes on draft night and stuff like that

 

Ballard's job depends on this draft. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

Irony that Mahomes lost to the Colts in 2019 and 2022 and ends up winning the SB both those years.  

 

Are we a good luck charm for the Chiefs?

looks like mahomes has trouble with bad teams

[Moosejawcolt]

5 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

looks like mahomes has trouble with bad teams

yeah wehey 

 

5 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

looks like mahomes has trouble with bad teams

We are a great motivator for change. When a great team loses to a crap team, it is a wake up call for the great team lol!!

[OLD FAN MAN]

9 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Over Waktins, sure. But he is their WR3 who gets like 3 tgts/game. If we want to call him a starting WR, then that's fine. But I was really just talking about WR1 and WR2 and TE1. 

 

As for PC or Pierce starting over Watkins, probably up for debate because it's based on what PHI wants to do. The cool thing is the Colts will have their OC as HC, so we will get to see what type of personnel he likes. I would assume PC is re-signed for it, but I could also see them drafting someone.

 

 

shane learned a lot from frank so it will probably be basically franks offense all over again

[DougDew]

24 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Air yards per attempt says otherwise.   

 

https://www.fantasypros.com/nfl/advanced-stats-qb.php

So what.  His number of pass attempts is down there in the Murray, Fields, and Lamar quarter.  425.  OTOH, Burrow had 568 attempts.   Mahomes had 622.  Philly is a run based offense, not a sling it to the wideouts offense, and that's what I expect our O to look like.

 

[CR91]

16 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Kind of funny tracking the jet.

 

 

 

Ok that's just creepy 

[OLD FAN MAN]

Just now, DougDew said:

So what.  His number of pass attempts is down there in the Murray, Fields, and Lamar quarter.  425.  OTOH, Burrow had 568 attempts.   Mahomes and Allen had 622.  Philly is a run based offense, not a sling it to the wideouts offense, and that's what I expect our O to look like.

 

franks offense again

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

franks offense again

Pretty much.  Steichen comes from the same Rivers, Philly, Siranni tree.  Franks offense does not throw it deep so little, like it did last year.  That was a function of the QB.  Last year was not a reflection of Frank's offense.  It was simply inept.

 

Will the offense be better, yes, I expect it.  But no, Ballard did not stray away from his home very far, IMO.

[Moosejawcolt]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If we are going to have a running QB, I think the pick would be Levis or Richardson.  And I'd say Richardson doesn't deserve pick 4, so it could be a trade down or a stud defender at 4 with a trade up from 35 using pick 79.

 

The thing with Hurts is that he is more powerful than he is agile.  There are not a lot of QBs who are like that.  Most of them are smaller wiry guys.   I think Clayton Tune or Max Duggan are also like Hurts...with Tune a better passer than Duggan, IMO.

I dont think has an elite skill set with the exception of his intangibles.   Here is what i want to see happen. Stay put and get the franchise DE pash rusher. Paye is cute but he is a LDE. Now i want this team to make a trade for Tee Higgins. He is in the last year of his contract and they are apparently going to pay Burrrows and Chase is up soon. Higgins is in the last year of his contract and they cannot afford him . I would say maybe a 2nd rounder.  Time to stop and if they draft a qb, they  e need to support him. I i would also trade Pittamn, Moore and even see what Buckner could get us. Now with your 2nd pick, I would go after that QB guy. That might mean they have to trade up in the 1st. They have 2 2nd rounders. One for Tee Higgins and one for a trade up if they can. I dont see the value of keeping Buckner, Moore and Pittman. Get capital for these guys. Moore and Buckner will be older once and if this offence develops.  We could have Higgins, Pierce, Campbell and the young TE's. The offence could look good. Now a couple of pieces put into the Oline. This draft is about building the offence and getting that pass rusher

[twfish]

4 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

franks offense again

I mean let's be clear Frank didn't have a bad offense. A lot of his play design wasn't bad. However he was incredibly predictable and was very conservative. The Eagle's offense was neither of those.

[DougDew]

14 minutes ago, AustinnKaine said:

im ready to hear about philosophy and seeing some colts media about the upcoming draft. 

Yes, to the extent that our HC has a lot of input into which particular player gets drafted over another, Steichen can have a huge impact here.

[OLD FAN MAN]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Pretty much.  Steichen comes from the same Rivers, Philly, Siranni tree.  Franks offense does not throw it deep so little, like it did last year.  That was a function of the QB.  Last year was not a reflection of Frank's offense.  It was simply inept.

 

Will the offense be better, yes, I expect it.  But no, Ballard did not stray away from his home very far, IMO.

ballard will have to get a clone of AJ brown FOR THIS OFFENSE TO BE GOOD

[AKB]

Just now, DougDew said:

Yes, to the extent that our HC has a lot of input into which particular player gets drafted over another, Steichen can have a huge impact here.

well the way i've heard them explain it, the head coach is definitely involved in that process and team vision

[ADnum1]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Pretty much.  Steichen comes from the same Rivers, Philly, Siranni tree.  Franks offense does not throw it deep so little, like it did last year.  That was a function of the QB.  Last year was not a reflection of Frank's offense.  It was simply inept.

 

Will the offense be better, yes, I expect it.  But no, Ballard did not stray away from his home very far, IMO.

Ryan threw deep plenty with Atlanta.

 

For a QB to throw deep, the OLine has to hold their blocks longer, and that wasn't happening.

[Nickster]

16 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So what.  His number of pass attempts is down there in the Murray, Fields, and Lamar quarter.  425.  OTOH, Burrow had 568 attempts.   Mahomes had 622.  Philly is a run based offense, not a sling it to the wideouts offense, and that's what I expect our O to look like.

 

That and we are always top half in AY/A with essentially no deep threat since Reich was here and for the last two years terrible olines. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

Just now, PRnum1 said:

Ryan threw deep plenty with Atlanta.

 

For a QB to throw deep, the OLine has to hold their blocks longer, and that wasn't happening.

hopefully ballard learned from his horrible mistakes and fixes the o-line and pass catchers

[DougDew]

9 minutes ago, twfish said:

I mean let's be clear Frank didn't have a bad offense. A lot of his play design wasn't bad. However he was incredibly predictable and was very conservative. The Eagle's offense was neither of those.

Its going to take a while though.  Steichen could do more things with the players he had.  Brown is physical, Smith is agile.  Goedert can catch.  Gainwell and Sanders can slither and run outside.  

 

And of course, the oline can block many different plays.

[Indyfan4life]

11 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

franks offense again

Interesting you two seem to think that. Allow me to lay some basic stats and research on you, since that appears to be difficult to do.

 

Eagles top 3 receivers:

Brown - 145 targets - 88 receptions - 1,496 yards - 88YPG - 17 YPC - 5 100+ yard games - 11TD

Smith - 136 targets - 95 receptions - 1,196 yards - 70.4 YPG - 12.6 YPC - 5 100+ yard games - 7 TD

Goedert - 69 Targets (nice) - 55 receptions - 702 yards - 58.5 YPG - 20.8 YPC - 1 100+ yard games - 3 TD

 

Colts top 3 receivers:

Pittman - 141 targets - 99 receptions - 925 yards - 57.8 YPG - 9.3 YPC - 2 100+ yard games - 4 TD

Campbell - 91 targets - 63 receptions - 623 yards - 36.6 YPG - 9.9 YPC - 0 100+ yard games - 3 TD
Pierce - 78 targets - 41 receptions - 593 yards - 37.1 YPG - 14.5 YPC - 0 100+ yard games - 2 TD

 

350 targets between Brown/Smith/Goedert

310 targets between Pittman/Campbell/Pierce

Our top 3 would have had even less attempts if Taylor was healthy all year. We also didn't have the Oline they do, nor a QB that could actually move with his legs if need be. OUR TOP 3 receivers barely had more TD COMBINED than Smith did all on his own. I don't want to hear this "hurrrrr same ole offense running ball frank's offense hurrrr" crap. It doesn't add up, so drop the crap.

 

[DougDew]

3 minutes ago, PRnum1 said:

Ryan threw deep plenty with Atlanta.

 

For a QB to throw deep, the OLine has to hold their blocks longer, and that wasn't happening.

Ok.  My point was that last year was not reflective of how many times we would normally throw deep.   The Wentz O is more normal, IMO

[krunk]

8 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

franks offense again

I expect some similar things that we saw with Frank but you have to keep in mind adjustments Philly had to make to produce a balanced rushing attack. They dont have a workhorse back like Taylor. Their guys are more Andy Reid pass receiving type backs. I remember when Sirriani first got their they were complaining about him passing too much. I think this happened bc they didnt really have anybody to really consistently rely on. So they tweaked the offense and started implementing more QB runs, short passes and other stuff to compsensate. I dont really fear Steichen coming here and wanting to run the QB to death. I think what they did was a unique adjustment for the circumstances they had. Steichen has worked with various style of QB. Hurts is the only one used in the way they used him. With Indy we already have a bellcow and a pretty competent #2 as well. I doubt he runs the QB a lot here.

[twfish]

Just now, DougDew said:

Its going to take a while though.  Steichen could do more things with the players he had.  Brown is physical, Smith is agile.  Goedert can catch.  Gainwell and Sanders can slither and run outside.  

 

And of course, the oline can block many different plays.

Don't knock the talent just because it's been under utilized. Sure we don't have A.J brown but MPJ, Campbell and Pierce arent exactly slouches either. Woods showed promise and JT is hands down the better back then Sanders.

[Moosejawcolt]

26 minutes ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

shane learned a lot from frank so it will probably be basically franks offense all over again

Actually i was listening to a pod cast and they think we will run a 6 pack offence and it is a college offence so i think it will be a departure from Frank\

[indyagent17]

Shane will have to literally look at every aspect of this team and look at players that do not give 100% first. This is where the dysfunction starts watching players take place off in person is sickening and I’ve seen it way too many times this year I hope he has the wherewithal to bring in players that don’t have quit in them because Ballard bringing in all of these sweet, lovable players is not working

[DougDew]

Just now, Indyfan4life said:

Interesting you two seem to think that. Allow me to lay some basic stats and research on you, since that appears to be difficult to do.

 

Eagles top 3 receivers:

Brown - 145 targets - 88 receptions - 1,496 yards - 88YPG - 17 YPC - 5 100+ yard games - 11TD

Smith - 136 targets - 95 receptions - 1,196 yards - 70.4 YPG - 12.6 YPC - 5 100+ yard games - 7 TD

Goedert - 69 Targets (nice) - 55 receptions - 702 yards - 58.5 YPG - 20.8 YPC - 1 100+ yard games - 3 TD

 

Colts top 3 receivers:

Pittman - 141 targets - 99 receptions - 925 yards - 57.8 YPG - 9.3 YPC - 2 100+ yard games - 4 TD

Campbell - 91 targets - 63 receptions - 623 yards - 36.6 YPG - 9.9 YPC - 0 100+ yard games - 3 TD
Pierce - 78 targets - 41 receptions - 593 yards - 37.1 YPG - 14.5 YPC - 0 100+ yard games - 2 TD

 

350 targets between Brown/Smith/Goedert

310 targets between Pittman/Campbell/Pierce

Our top 3 would have had even less attempts if Taylor was healthy all year. We also didn't have the Oline they do, nor a QB that could actually move with his legs if need be. OUR TOP 3 receivers barely had more TD COMBINED than Smith did all on his own. I don't want to hear this "hurrrrr same ole offense running ball frank's offense hurrrr" crap. It doesn't add up, so drop the crap.

 

Your stats are crap for evaluating the intent of the offense.  Philly has a run based offense.  

 

The difference is that the Colts power runner was JT.  With Philly, the power runner was the QB (but not as many carries as JT obviously).  Sanders and Gainwell are not power runners...they are the Hines...with nuances because you can't run Hurts like a RB, so they had some power runs too.

 

Basically, Philly had our offense except Hurts did a lot of the running JT did, with a few more shots downfield because of the fear of him running, better WRs,  and the superior oline.  

 

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, krunk said:

I expect some similar things that we saw with Frank but you have to keep in mind adjustments Philly had to make to produce a balanced rushing attack. They dont have a workhorse back like Taylor. Their guys are more Andy Reid pass receiving type backs. I remember when Sirriani first got their they were complaining about him passing too much. I think this happened bc they didnt really have anybody to really consistently rely on. So they tweaked the offense and started implementing more QB runs, short passes and other stuff to compsensate. I dont really fear Steichen coming here and wanting to run the QB to death. I think what they did was a unique adjustment for the circumstances they had. Steichen has worked with various style of QB. Hurts is the only one used in the way they used him. With Indy we already have a bellcow and a pretty competent #2 as well. I doubt he runs the QB a lot here.

Their workhorse was Hurts.  Gainwell and Sanders were more Hines.  They were used more than Hines was here, because Hurts isn't the big play threat that JT is.  So our workhorse got more carries than Philly's did.