Colts have 4th pick (Official Discussion Thread)

[EastStreet]

17 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I agree. Stay at 4, take the best available.

 

I'd even be fine with trading back if Ballard felt none of the top 3 QBs were significantly better than the next tier guys. I do think we need to draft a QB in the first 2 rounds.

 

IMO, we need a top 3 (Young, Stroud, Levis). Only entertain one of the others in the unlikely situation all 3 are taken 1-3... 

 

The delta between the top 3 and the next 3, is pretty wide. All have good ceilings, but the 2nd group of QBs have lower floors. 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

IMO, we need a top 3 (Young, Stroud, Levis). Only entertain one of the others in the unlikely situation all 3 are taken 1-3... 

 

The delta between the top 3 and the next 3, is pretty wide. All have good ceilings, but the 2nd group of QBs have lower floors. 

So in your opinion is any of the top 3 worth gambling multiple picks to aquire? 

Watching the Bears sites they seem to think the #1 pick is worth a kings ransom. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is kind of true. Unless colts are happy with all 3 quarterbacks.

I’m 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Saints may want the pick for 24 QB but I also wouldn’t rule this out for Arizona. It’s way to high of a pick for a coach. But this would also give saints a lot of amo to get to one.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

So in your opinion is any of the top 3 worth gambling multiple picks to aquire? 

Watching the Bears sites they seem to think the #1 pick is worth a kings ransom. 

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread. I see all 3 as tier 2 guys, not tier 1 (no brainer stud, guarantee). 

So definitely not worth giving up our 2024 first round pick. In short, I like our situation, and would be good with any of the 3. 

The worst thing we could do, is fall in love with one, and mortgage our future..... 

[coming on strong]

1 hour ago, richard pallo said:

Physically he looks like a Peyton clone.  Actually looks a little taller.  Levis is my first choice.

i want levis because we wouldnt have to trade up for him .  

[Coltinator]

Many have predicted the Colts will trade up to #1 pick (CBS Sports (Chris Trapasso...). If I remember right, the Colts would give up #1, #2 and #3 this year and #1 and #2 next year. I will vomit the second I hear this become official. We have too many holes to fill to be giving up 5 high picks to move up 3 spots and probably get the QB we wanted at #4 anyway. The Bears did this with Mitch Trubisky and it was a disaster. The Colts need to draft the QB that falls to them at #4 that they grade the highest.  

 

PS: CJ Stroud would look great with the blue shoe. Plus, we need to take another QB later (GA's  Bennet?). There are a lot of good QB's in this draft.

 

 

 

[richard pallo]

31 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

i want levis because we wouldnt have to trade up for him .  

I’m not sure about that.  He could go before the other two.  All it takes is one team.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We all need to pray cardinals don’t give up that 3 for Payton.

[coming on strong]

14 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

I’m not sure about that.  He could go before the other two.  All it takes is one team.

after a whole season of watching matt ryan i would take any of the  three of them .    i think someone will be available

[Stephen]

46 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I mentioned earlier in the thread. I see all 3 as tier 2 guys, not tier 1 (no brainer stud, guarantee). 

So definitely not worth giving up our 2024 first round pick. In short, I like our situation, and would be good with any of the 3. 

The worst thing we could do, is fall in love with one, and mortgage our future..... 

Honestly i think if we get one of the top three or hooker should be able to compete in this league. I think those 4 are the best passers in this draft. If it wasnt for the injury and his age hooker would be mentioned with the top 3. After those 4 there are alot of guys like hall, ward,mckee,richardson that are hard to project. Bennett is good enough to win with imediately if he goes to the right team, but because of his size, age, and the team he was on he us over looked.

[Stephen]

15 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

We all need to pray cardinals don’t give up that 3 for Payton.

If all three are gone we should draft hooker. His ball placement is elite. We just have to roll with sam or a veteran til he is ready

[coming on strong]

 

[EastStreet]

15 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Honestly i think if we get one of the top three or hooker should be able to compete in this league. I think those 4 are the best passers in this draft. If it wasnt for the injury and his age hooker would be mentioned with the top 3. After those 4 there are alot of guys like hall, ward,mckee,richardson that are hard to project. Bennett is good enough to win with imediately if he goes to the right team, but because of his size, age, and the team he was on he us over looked.

 

I like Hooker, but no where the polish that the top 3 have. He's a project with high ceiling. Footwork is sloppy, mechanics are raw, and is a bean pole right now. He's a dice roll that will take investment/time. 

 

Stetson... lol... Great kid. But nobody is gong to draft with him thoughts he'll be their franchise QB, or even a starter. 

[Stephen]

8 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I like Hooker, but no where the polish that the top 3 have. He's a project with high ceiling. Footwork is sloppy, mechanics are raw, and is a bean pole right now. He's a dice roll that will take investment/time. 

 

Stetson... lol... Great kid. But nobody is gong to draft with him thoughts he'll be their franchise QB, or even a starter. 

Which is why he will be the next purdy

[jonjon]

On 1/10/2023 at 9:21 PM, BeanDiasucci said:

I bet the factory worker or maybe the stay at home mom could have told Ballard his plan for the offensive line this season was inadequate. 

And yet so few did. People bought into his snake oil of career backups being a key piece of the puzzle and near total disregard of quality FAs despite plenty of loot to play with OK. lol. 

[jonjon]

6 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Which is why he will be the next purdy

Far more likely the next Jake Stromm or AJ McCarron.

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

We all need to pray cardinals don’t give up that 3 for Payton.

I really doubt a team is going to give up a top five pick for a coach and if they did Payton’s interest in that team will probably vanish overnight.

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Stephen said:

Which is why he will be the next purdy

 

Purdy > Stetson... in short, Purdy's profile was/is better than Bennett's. Bennett is sub 5-11, and sub 200. And arm strength is mediocre at best. Stetson is a great kid, and a great college QB who was surrounded by 5 star kids. Purdy landed in the perfect place for his skill, or lack of... SF has a sweet roster. 

[jonjon]

Here's a HC interview track FWIW: https://www.nfl.com/news/nfl-coaching-gm-tracker-latest-news-interviews-developments-in-2023-hiring-cycle

[danlhart87]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

We all need to pray cardinals don’t give up that 3 for Payton.

I'll say this again

 

If they did that they would be the dumbest team in the league 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I'll say this again

 

If they did that they would be the dumbest team in the league 

Ben Albright said it would probably be a future first if it’s cards. Denver’s has a mid round pick that they could use.

[krunk]

5 hours ago, DattMavis said:

Richardson’s arm is stronger than Jacoby’s (like top 3 strongest arms in the NFL level) and he’s less gun shy (which does lead to turnovers. The only comparison I see is their physical size, but that’s really it personally.

If we got that kid do you think we are running Baltimores offense in Indy? Im not sure the likelihood. Im saying as a pure passer hes Brissett in body type and he cant read coverages. Very strong arm like Brissett. From a passing stand point you will probably feel like you are watching Brisett if you ask him to be a picket passer. Got no problems with him as an athlete when it comes to running. But do you really think Irsay wants a QB thats a better runner than a passer? Being that he had a QB just retire out of the blue from injuries and taking hits? As soon as he cant read the field hes going to start running around and what not. Injuries not too far away. 50 something percent passer.

[Dark Superman]

Make the aggressive move and move up to #1 and take Bryce Young

Pray that Houston makes the mistake of picking CJ Stroud/Will Levis at #1 and end up with Bryce Young without having to give up any draft capital at all.

[Mitch Connors]

10 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I really doubt a team is going to give up a top five pick for a coach and if they did Payton’s interest in that team will probably vanish overnight.

Agreed. The reason they'd have to trade a pick to get Payton is because he quit before his contract was up. That fact alone means he could do it again and there's nothing the team can do to prevent it so why gamble so much with no safety net at all?

[Nevbot]

11 hours ago, Stephen said:

Which is why he will be the next purdy

Purdy is basically Sam E playing with the best play caller in the NFL.  

Nothing special to him, just a special system.  I wouldn't set our standards to what we want for our franchise QB as Purdy, my goodness- there is a reason he went as the last pick of the draft. 

I don't even think Kyle Shannahan wants Purdy, he is simply forced to roll with him because he's the last man standing

[Nickster]

12 hours ago, Coltinator said:

Many have predicted the Colts will trade up to #1 pick (CBS Sports (Chris Trapasso...). If I remember right, the Colts would give up #1, #2 and #3 this year and #1 and #2 next year. I will vomit the second I hear this become official. We have too many holes to fill to be giving up 5 high picks to move up 3 spots and probably get the QB we wanted at #4 anyway. The Bears did this with Mitch Trubisky and it was a disaster. The Colts need to draft the QB that falls to them at #4 that they grade the highest.  

 

PS: CJ Stroud would look great with the blue shoe. Plus, we need to take another QB later (GA's  Bennet?). There are a lot of good QB's in this draft.

 

 

 

I agree with the possibility of taking two shots at it.  WA and Belechik have turned later drafted QBs into draft capital and it gives the team two chances in the QB lottery because there is very rarely a sure thing when it comes to drafting QBs. 

42 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

Purdy is basically Sam E playing with the best play caller in the NFL.  

Nothing special to him, just a special system.  I wouldn't set our standards to what we want for our franchise QB as Purdy, my goodness- there is a reason he went as the last pick of the draft. 

I don't even think Kyle Shannahan wants Purdy, he is simply forced to roll with him because he's the last man standing

Maybe the best play caller, but I think I'd look like a Genius too with the incredible talent they have on that offensive squad.  It's astounding really.  

[Nevbot]

9 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I agree with the possibility of taking two shots at it.  WA and Belechik have turned later drafted QBs into draft capital and it gives the team two chances in the QB lottery because there is very rarely a sure thing when it comes to drafting QBs. 

Maybe the best play caller, but I think I'd look like a Genius too with the incredible talent they have on that offensive squad.  It's astounding really.  

I would argue that their talent is good but not astounding.  Their top pure WR is Aiyuk- I think Pittman is better than he is.  As a weapon, Deebo is something unlike most teams have in their arsenal- but even he had a down year, and I think Pittman is a better pure WR. 

No question that Kittle is better than anything we have at TE. 

I think CMC and JT are a wash.  Not to mention that SF has had one of the best run games in the NFL over the last few years with above average JAGS playing RB for them like Mckinnon, Coleman, Jeff Wilson, Eli Mitchell, Raheem Mostert. This tells me it is the playcaller and system, not the player so much. 

They also have had average QBs throughout.   They have far exceeded the production that their players would have dictated, and their sum is far greater than their parts. 

Their H-Back multi purpose FB is something I could definitely get on board with, and really that is how Granson should have been utilized with us if we believed he could even block a 12 year old kid. 

It's all the system.  We need a play caller from the Kyle Shannahan tree.

 

[Nickster]

Just now, Nevbot said:

I would argue that their talent is good but not astounding.  Their top pure WR is Aiyuk- I think Pittman is better than he is.  As a weapon, Deebo is something unlike most teams have in their arsenal- but even he had a down year, and I think Pittman is a better pure WR. 

No question that Kittle is better than anything we have at TE. 

I think CMC and JT are a wash.  Not to mention that SF has had one of the best run games in the NFL over the last few years with above average JAGS playing RB for them like Mckinnon, Coleman, Jeff Wilson, Eli Mitchell, Raheem Mostert. This tells me it is the playcaller and system, not the player so much. 

They also have had average QBs throughout.   They have far exceeding the production that their players would have dictated, and their sum is far greater than their parts. 

Their H-Back multi purpose FB is something I could definitely get on board with, and really that is how Granson should have been utilized with us if we believed he could even block a 12 year old kid. 

It's all the system.  We need a play caller from the Kyle Shannahan tree.

 

They have one of the best LTs in the history of football.  And I just couldn't agree with you more about the talent.  When I see Aiyuk, I'd take him over what I see in Pittman.   You put all those parts together and it is pretty easy to see why they can plug and play a QB and have consistent results IMO.   They have players that have diversity of skills.  WE don't .   You can do a lot of different things with their players while ours are one dimensional.

 

The difference between JT and CMC is JT is one dimensional.  He runs well downhill when he has holes and gets help on the 2nd level.  Get JT running laterally and it's usually ineffective.  JT is a horrendous blocker and very limited as a route runner.   He's great in the open field but pedestrian until then.   He has a high rate of stuffed runs and did even last year in his career year. 

 

Pittman is one dimensional.  Both our TE are one dimensional.  

[Nevbot]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

They have one of the best LTs in the history of football.  And I just couldn't agree with you more about the talent.  When I see Aiyuk, I'd take him over what I see in Pittman.   You put all those parts together and it is pretty easy to see why they can plug and play a QB and have consistent results IMO.   They have players that have diversity of skills.  WE don't .   You can do a lot of different things with their players while ours are one dimensional.

 

The difference between JT and CMC is JT is one dimensional.  He runs well downhill when he has holes and gets help on the 2nd level.  Get JT running laterally and it's usually ineffective.  JT is a horrendous blocker and very limited as a route runner.   He's great in the open field but pedestrian until then.   He has a high rate of stuffed runs and did even last year in his career year. 

 

Pittman is one dimensional.  Both our TE are one dimensional.  

You didn't present a case based on personnel for me to believe that SF has such a gap in talent between the Colts to represent one of the best O's in the league vs one of the worst. Aiyuk is no better than Pittman and I stand by that, as do their stats if I were to guess. I believe that Kyle Shannahan could have had this very same team playing playoff level football in 2022.  We have had play callers that are stubborn to a fault and will continue to run their head into a brick wall if it hasn't fallen yet.  Shannahan adapts and dictates the flow of the game.  Run inside, Run outside, stretch the team east-west with motion and stuff it up the gut.  Frank knew how to scheme up a series to start the game and completely lost himself regularly afterwards. 

Creativity is the key in all of this.  I am not saying that individual talent isn't important- as we see with Mcdaniels in Miami (Shannahan tree).  It is dictating what the defense CAN do to you based on matchups.  For McDaniel, his personnel is literally what unlocks his offense to move the ball.  Hill/Waddle are both top 10 WR's and he knows the D can't double up on both.  If they do, he runs the ball.  If they double Hill, they throw to Waddle, and vice versa,  Simple reads that are pre-determined.

Point being....how a play caller is able to simplify the game for his QB will be key for us going forward, especially with a rook at QB, and even allows you to field a good team without a generational QB.

 

[tweezy32]

17 hours ago, Behr-34 said:

 

Come on.. really?  Are you taking into account he has one of the worst O-line in the league?  Working with his second set of coaches in as many years?  Throwing to receivers who don't know the playbook yet (Claypool), or backups, or just not very good rec's?   If you ask most Bears fans, they'd tell you he played well, and sometimes exceptionally considering all of the above.  And he usually showed improvement as the season progresses.  No, his passing wasn't consistently above average, but he did show enough flashes that most Bears fans, including myself, are pretty excited about what level he can get to.  

 

I could definitely see a handful of teams giving up a 1st rounder for him.  Aint say'n, just say'n.  

if you are a good qb you can make wr look good. Luck did it for how long with the worst oline. brady did it for how long. also bears fans are a very delusional fan base as i live in Illinois my whole life and trust me they say the most absurd things lol. He might be worth a 1st right now but he wont be much in the nfl. 

[Nickster]

6 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

You didn't present a case based on personnel for me to believe that SF has such a gap in talent between the Colts to represent one of the best O's in the league vs one of the worst. Aiyuk is no better than Pittman and I stand by that, as do their stats if I were to guess. I believe that Kyle Shannahan could have had this very same team playing playoff level football in 2022.  We have had play callers that are stubborn to a fault and will continue to run their head into a brick wall if it hasn't fallen yet.  Shannahan adapts and dictates the flow of the game.  Run inside, Run outside, stretch the team east-west with motion and stuff it up the gut.  Frank knew how to scheme up a series to start the game and completely lost himself regularly afterwards. 

Creativity is the key in all of this.  I am not saying that individual talent isn't important- as we see with Mcdaniels in Miami (Shannahan tree).  It is dictating what the defense CAN do to you based on matchups.  For McDaniel, his personnel is literally what unlocks his offense to move the ball.  Hill/Waddle are both top 10 WR's and he knows the D can't double up on both.  If they do, he runs the ball.  If they double Hill, they throw to Waddle, and vice versa,  Simple reads that are pre-determined.

Point being....how a play caller is able to simplify the game for his QB will be key for us going forward, especially with a rook at QB, and even allows you to field a good team without a generational QB.

 

 

agree to disagree, but I don't know how you are judging Aiyuk but he is consistently well above Pittman in Pff grade and is a very efficient player too.  Plus they have had a very unsettled QB situation too.  Not trying to convince anyone of anything.  And honestly I don't know how anyone can look at their talent and ours and not see a wide wide gulf.  

 

I don't think PFF is god but I think it's a pretty decent way to somewhat normalize when comparing players.  Don't know what you think of it.  Put if you look at the scores there man, it's not close.  

Kittle, Williams, and CMC are Elite players.  Top of the top. 

Deebo is an incredible weapon. Aiyuk is very underappreciated IMO.  On a team like ours.  HE would dominate targets and produce better than Pitman IMO.  

 

Shanahan and everyone else would fail to make the players playing on this team this season decent.  IMO. 

 

[Dark Superman]

Bryce Young or bust.

[JColts72]

Just now, Dark Superman said:

Bryce Young or bust.

Only if Colts the trade up. Otherwise CJ; not Levis. He reminds me of Raider bust Russell from years ago.

[richard pallo]

As we go down this path we should pay attention to any comments Peyton, Dungy and Polian make about these quarterbacks.  I believe Polian will eventually rank them.  I think Irsay and Ballard will lean on their comments as part of reaching a decision on any of them.  JMO.

[JColts72]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

As we go down this path we should pay attention to any comments Peyton, Dungy and Polian make about these quarterbacks.  I believe Polian will eventually rank them.  I think Irsay and Ballard will lean on their comments as part of reaching a decision on any of them.  JMO.

I wonder if those 3 we're consulted on hiring Jeff.

[richard pallo]

1 minute ago, JColts72 said:

I wonder if those 3 we're consulted on hiring Jeff.

I know Dungy wasn’t.  He was quite surprised on TV.  Didn’t like it actually.

[danlhart87]

 

[shasta519]

59 minutes ago, Nevbot said:

I would argue that their talent is good but not astounding.  Their top pure WR is Aiyuk- I think Pittman is better than he is.  As a weapon, Deebo is something unlike most teams have in their arsenal- but even he had a down year, and I think Pittman is a better pure WR. 

 

 

I think Aiyuk has All-Pro upside. He's a better WR than Pittman IMO. No question he was this past season. 

 

 

 

 

[shasta519]

28 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Only if Colts the trade up. Otherwise CJ; not Levis. He reminds me of Raider bust Russell from years ago.

 

I have watched Levis at UK. And he actually reminds me of Desmond Ridder. Lots of downfield throws where his WR makes a play.

 

But Ridder was a mid-3rd round pick last year. So I don't really get the Levis hype. For me, it's definitely seems like it's Young or Stroud. 

 

I have been on the draft a QB bandwagon since Luck retired, but if I am being honest, I would take a lost season if it landed Caleb Williams next year.