Matt Ryan benched for Sam (merge)

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Ballard admitted there was no plan. Just to see what was left over. At that point you do to things. Keep Wentz or move on to the young guy. It’s really not that complicated.

"Keep Wentz" that would have of got us nowhere. Your QB isn't that good, Matt hasn't worked out so I admit I was wrong there but Wentz hasn't had to deal with bad O.Line play, Taylor being injured, Leonard being out on D all year, etc. and Matt still is 3-3-1 despite what some call a dumpster fire. Wentz had a golden opportunity at 9-6 and just blew it - he had everyone healthy and still even had TY Hilton and lost 2 games in a row to clinch, I had his back but he choked so give it up. 

[#12.]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

He also didn't look like a starter just a few months ago, when they put Nick Foles ahead of him in the 

 

That still makes sense to me.  If Ryan were currently playing at a high level and you were 6-1, you would still probably go with the experienced backup, Foles, for a game or two over Sam, regardless of how much improvement Sam has shown.  Circumstances have changed, however.

 

 

[philba101]

6 minutes ago, #12. said:

Has it crossed anyone's mind that Sam has perhaps improved over the past year plus?  Maybe he wasn't ready and didn't look like a starter 8-9 months ago?

 

Last preseason I thought Sam looked nothing like a starting NFL QB.  This preseason he started to change my mind.

It is a good point. Sam was still a rookie. He could have made significant progress in his second offseason. He will certainly be familiar with the system as the starter having the opportunity to sit behind other QB's for a year and a half. I am hoping this helps Sam have a quicker transition than a rookie. It sounds like they are planning to add some elements to the offense that will suit Sam's skills. Hopefully, this will help also.

[Moosejawcolt]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

If accurate, Irsay is still the general, and pretty active.

To me it is quite alarming the fall of Ryan and more so the ability of Reich and Ballard to evaluate a qb. They were so wrong bout Wentz. They were also glowing bout Ryan before the season. Both qbs have shown that their better days are behind them and should hang them up. Now let's say Sam lights it up do we still want Reich and Ballard around? I mean they seem to like him, but r we to believe that either saw him as a franchise guy? If they did would he not have been starting this year? I use to have a lot of faith in Reich, never Ballard, but I must admit that I have really fallen off Frank's band wagon.

[throwing BBZ]

15 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Those are the two main problems - QB and 4 quarter, 16, 17 game consistency.  

 

Ballard isn’t perfect, but the teams over the past 5 years or so have been some of the more well rounded, more complete teams we have had in Indy.  Unless Sam saves the day for Frank, in the end, Irsay will choose to see how Ballard's players do under a different coach, and Ballard will probably be picking the coach.

 

  Frank was uninspired on last weeks Colts 360. That was before the game.
That we are always behind in the first half falls on him. I think he is done.

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"Keep Wentz" that would have of got us nowhere. Your QB isn't that good, Matt hasn't worked out so I admit I was wrong there but he hasn't had to deal with bad O.Line play, Taylor being injured, Leonard being out on D all year, etc. and he still is 3-3-1 despite what some call a dumpster fire. Wentz had a golden opportunity at 9-6 and just blew it - he had everyone healthy and still even TY Hilton and lost 2 games in a row to clinch, I had his back but he choked so give it up. 

That's what feels so weird to me about this entire thing. We're 3-3-1 and 1 game back from 1st. And yet part of it sort of feels like the season has slipped away and we're panicking. Listening to the media, you'd think we were 0-6-1 and in full tank mode, and yet here we are. I'm 50/50 feeling right now. Maybe Sam provides the spark and gets us where we expected to be. Or perhaps this is indeed us throwing in the towel at week 8. 

[philba101]

32 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

Those are the two main problems - QB and 4 quarter, 16, 17 game consistency.  

 

Ballard isn’t perfect, but the teams over the past 5 years or so have been some of the more well rounded, more complete teams we have had in Indy.  Unless Sam saves the day for Frank, in the end, Irsay will choose to see how Ballard's players do under a different coach, and Ballard will probably be picking the coach.

I am not sure we want to see this. Ballard was going to hire Josh McDaniels before he bailed. Ballard picked Reich. Ballard failed to put a line together that could protect his three band-aid QB's. Ballard could have arguably added more weapons to this team via trade or free agency but failed to do so. Why should Ballard get a pass on any of this? Why would Irsay want him to pick the next coach?

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

That's what feels so weird to me about this entire thing. We're 3-3-1 and 1 game back from 1st. And yet part of it sort of feels like the season has slipped away and we're panicking. Listening to the media, you'd think we were 0-6-1 and in full tank mode, and yet here we are. I'm 50/50 feeling right now. Maybe Sam provides the spark and gets us where we expected to be. Or perhaps this is indeed us throwing in the towel at week 8. 

I don't get what is going on. I would play Sam and then Matt gets healthy, bring Matt back. To just say Sam is going to start the rest of the season is odd. I have never seen anything like it to be honest, where you just bench a Hall of Fame QB when you are 3-3-1 only 7 games in and have time to figure things out. We aren't 0-7, 1-6, 2-5, hell we have a better record than a lot of teams even the Pats who are 3-4. Taylor and Leonard both have not even been healthy. Beats me man 

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Ballard is so arrogant he probably thinks he did nothing wrong.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Ballard admitted there was no plan. Just to see what was left over. At that point you do to things. Keep Wentz or move on to the young guy. It’s really not that complicated.

Because Irsay and maybe Ballard has thought this team is a QB away, and they thought Ryan could be that guy at least in year two when they traded for him.  

 

And Irsay was enamored with the idea of leadership from the QB position.

 

Now they see that he does not have the tools, and no protection, so they move to Sam in a year where there is a reasonably talented QB draft.

 

They are processing new information as it becomes available and reevaluating their decisions as they go along.

 

 

[chickenMan]

After what happened Monday night with the Bears and Patriots, I just want Sam to beat the Patriots. If he can beat them, he's already good in my book. We could honestly tank the rest of the season and I'd be fine with it, as long as we win that one game.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't get what is going on. I would play Sam and then Matt gets healthy, bring Matt back. To just say Sam is going to start the rest of the season is odd. I have never seen anything like it to be honest, where you just bench a Hall of Fame QB when you are 3-3-1 only 7 games in and have time to figure things out. We aren't 0-7, 1-6, 2-5, hell we have a better record than a lot of teams even the Pats who are 3-4. Taylor and Leonard both have not even been healthy. Beats me man 

Here is the thing. If Sam plays two games and this offense looks good why bring Ryan back. If he stinks and we lose we are pretty much out of playoffs so at that point you wouldn’t bring Ryan back.

[cdgacoltsfan]

31 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Colin is usually tuned in to the colts well. He will put things in a speculative way just to not give up a source or make it look like he has a source. I would be 50/50 on if that was true. 
 

The way Ballard is letting Reich fall in the sword and not taking some blame it almost sounds true. 

Cowherd is a tool. Hes in love with Russel Wilson and dedicates 15 minutes of every show trying to convince his audience how great Wilson is despite how terrible he is. He should be embarrassed.

He did the same thing with the Rams but finally had to pivot from his *ic take.

[RollerColt]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't get what is going on. I would play Sam and then Matt gets healthy, bring Matt back. To just say Sam is going to start the rest of the season is odd. I have never seen anything like it to be honest, where you just bench a Hall of Fame QB when you are 3-3-1 only 7 games in and have time to figure things out. We aren't 0-7, 1-6, 2-5, hell we have a better record than a lot of teams even the Pats who are 3-4. Taylor and Leonard both have not even been healthy. Beats me man 

To be fair, it's happened before. The Broncos in 2015 benched Manning in favor or Brock Osweiler, only to bring him back in time for the playoffs.

 

Edit: This does not mean I think Ryan will be back for the Colts. IMO he is done in Indianapolis and most likely the NFL as well. 

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[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Here is the thing. If Sam plays two games and this offense looks good why bring Ryan back. If he stinks and we lose we are pretty much out of playoffs so at that point you wouldn’t bring Ryan back.

Why bring Dak Prescott back then? Cooper Rush was 4-1, and was 4-0 before his loss to Philly? Just because Sam goes 2-0 or even 3-0 doesn't mean you don't bring back a guy that is your starter. 

[RollerColt]

Just now, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

If it was Reich's choice alone, do we think he would've gone with Foles since he was his Super Bowl MVP bud? 

[Coltsfan98]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Because Irsay and maybe Ballard has thought this team is a QB away, and they thought Ryan could be that guy at least in year two when they traded for him.  

 

And Irsay was enamored with the idea of leadership from the QB position.

 

Now they see that he does not have the tools, and no protection, so they move to Sam in a year where there is a reasonably talented QB draft.

 

They are processing new information as it becomes available and reevaluating their decisions as they go along.

 

 

There is the entire problem in a nut shell. This team is overrated by the owner and GM. Irsay still thinks it's all about the QB.

 

IT'S NOT!!!!!

 

This team has a lot of issues but they keep turning a blind eye to most of them hoping the next QB will fix it!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Somebody actually said if Sam wants to be hurts he has to also be able to throw from the pocket. Lol. Did they not watch his college tape.

Just now, RollerColt said:

If it was Reich's choice alone, do we think he would've gone with Foles since he was his Super Bowl MVP bud? 

I think he likes what he can do with Sam and he knows the oline is bad.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Gigc]

The head-scratcher in all of this was Chris's (Ballard) decision to let three OL go during the offseason.

They didn't resign Fisher and let Chris Reed AND Glowinski leave.

I know people weren't thrilled with Fish, but he played better than what we've had. Honestly, putting all your eggs in Matt Pryor was not a good decision.

It just left a OL of cards. Pinter has regressed and Raimann needs more time to add strength and improve technique.

It's head-scratching because Chris has always said "building the lines" was the key to competing. 

If the line had held up, Matt would still be playing; we'd still be relevant. 

Now we're hoping Sam turns into Jim Harbaugh or Jalen Hurts, or that we tank enough to draft a high QB --- which would be another gamble. 

We could be back in the 1980s here...

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The one thing about Reich he knows how to get a team to play through adversity so he is the coach you want in this situation.

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Somebody actually said if Sam wants to be hurts he has to also be able to throw from the pocket. Lol. Did they not watch his college tape.

I think he likes what he can do with Sam and he knows the oline is bad.

I know I do. I'm honestly glad we're going with Sam over Nick. We know the ceiling for Foles, but Sam is unknown for another couple of days. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

To be fair, it's happened before. The Broncos in 2015 benched Manning in favor or Brock Osweiler, only to bring him back in time for the playoffs.

 

Edit: This does not mean I think Ryan will be back for the Colts. IMO he is done in Indianapolis and most likely the NFL as well. 

That would be a cool story though if Sam played great, then tailed off and Matt came back to lead us in the playoffs to a SB win. I hope Sam does well, we will see. Osweiler was good at times but I never looked at him as a franchise QB. If Peyton doesn't come back, Denver does not win it all. They don't get by the Pats is why.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, Gigc said:

The head-scratcher in all of this was Chris's (Ballard) decision to let three OL go during the offseason.

They didn't resign Fisher and let Chris Reed AND Glowinski leave.

I know people weren't thrilled with Fish, but he played better than what we've had. Honestly, putting all your eggs in Matt Pryor was not a good decision.

It just left a OL of cards. Pinter has regressed and Raimann needs more time to add strength and improve technique.

It's head-scratching because Chris has always said "building the lines" was the key to competing. 

If the line had held up, Matt would still be playing; we'd still be relevant. 

Now we're hoping Sam turns into Jim Harbaugh or Jalen Hurts, or that we tank enough to draft a high QB --- which would be another gamble. 

We could be back in the 1980s here...

Someone posted the last time this happened a number 4 took over and we almost went to SB. Sam had some of that toughness.

[DougDew]

23 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

To me it is quite alarming the fall of Ryan and more so the ability of Reich and Ballard to evaluate a qb. They were so wrong bout Wentz. They were also glowing bout Ryan before the season. Both qbs have shown that their better days are behind them and should hang them up. Now let's say Sam lights it up do we still want Reich and Ballard around? I mean they seem to like him, but r we to believe that either saw him as a franchise guy? If they did would he not have been starting this year? I use to have a lot of faith in Reich, never Ballard, but I must admit that I have really fallen off Frank's band wagon.

Well, to me the overarching theme is that Ballard ignores positional value and uses good capital to pick low hanging fruit. 

 

The result is that Frank has had to coach a team that has great talent at less important positions and revolving average talent at more important positions.  We see that with new QBs, LTs, and WRs every year. 

 

Frank has his faults, but he has been forced to fly his plane fighting a stronger headwind than his opposing coaches.  You can see the stress wearing on him. 

 

I don't know who to fire or who to keep, both or neither, but if Irsay does not see this situation we've had over the past 5 years when he makes a FO decision then shame on him.  

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Imagine all the misdirection we should be able to do with Sam Hines and Taylor. That should confuse the crap out of a defense.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Gigc said:

The head-scratcher in all of this was Chris's (Ballard) decision to let three OL go during the offseason.

They didn't resign Fisher and let Chris Reed AND Glowinski leave.

I know people weren't thrilled with Fish, but he played better than what we've had. Honestly, putting all your eggs in Matt Pryor was not a good decision.

It just left a OL of cards. Pinter has regressed and Raimann needs more time to add strength and improve technique.

It's head-scratching because Chris has always said "building the lines" was the key to competing. 

If the line had held up, Matt would still be playing; we'd still be relevant. 

Now we're hoping Sam turns into Jim Harbaugh or Jalen Hurts, or that we tank enough to draft a high QB --- which would be another gamble. 

We could be back in the 1980s here...

What is head scratching is, we bring in a guy that is one of the best pocket passers ever but we don't do anything to get him a LT that can actually play.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Shocked he is talking 

 

 

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Why bring Dak Prescott back then? Cooper Rush was 4-1, and was 4-0 before his loss to Philly? Just because Sam goes 2-0 or even 3-0 doesn't mean you don't bring back a guy that is your starter. 

We can’t bring Ryan back.   By benching him now, we avoid roughly $17 million more guaranteed dollars in 2023.   The Colts are moving on from Ryan after one season — period.   As it is, the Colts will pay Ryan $12 mill+ next year.   The Colts do not want to add to that. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

This is good to hear.

 

 

[csmopar]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't get what is going on. I would play Sam and then Matt gets healthy, bring Matt back. To just say Sam is going to start the rest of the season is odd. I have never seen anything like it to be honest, where you just bench a Hall of Fame QB when you are 3-3-1 only 7 games in and have time to figure things out. We aren't 0-7, 1-6, 2-5, hell we have a better record than a lot of teams even the Pats who are 3-4. Taylor and Leonard both have not even been healthy. Beats me man 

Matt Ryan pre colts was not a HoF candidate. I see good play, not great

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Someone posted the last time this happened a number 4 took over and we almost went to SB. Sam had some of that toughness.

No one knows what Sam has.   The Colts hope he has it.   They think he has it.   But until he proves it in real NFL games, no one really knows.   What he did on college only means so much when it comes to the NFL.   You have to prove it here. 

[csmopar]

3 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Shocked he is talking 

 

 

Can’t even hear him 

[RollerColt]

4 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

We can’t bring Ryan back.   By benching him now, we avoid roughly $17 million more guaranteed dollars in 2023.   The Colts are moving on from Ryan after one season — period.   As it is, the Colts will pay Ryan $12 mill+ next year.   The Colts do not want to add to that. 

Bingo. It's the number 1 reason. If he were to play in week 17 or 18 and then get injured, and then not pass his physical next offseason, we'd owe him that money. Not worth the risk to pay a player that much more money when the tape says the arm is shot... 

 

I hate this for Matt Ryan, but this game and life in general is just not fair sometimes... 

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Well, to me the overarching theme is that Ballard ignores positional value and uses good capital to pick low hanging fruit. 

 

The result is that Frank has had to coach a team that has great talent at less important positions and revolving average talent at more important positions.  We see that with new QBs, LTs, and WRs every year. 

 

Frank has his faults, but he has been forced to fly his plane fighting a stronger headwind than his opposing coaches.  You can see the stress wearing on him. 

 

I don't know who to fire or who to keep, both or neither, but if Irsay does not see this situation we've had over the past 5 years when he makes a FO decision then shame on him.  

 

 

I agree that Ballard is more of the problem. U have to look no farther than the Oline. By his own words the most important part of a football team. However, this is the same guy that called the WIL the 2nd most important postion behind the 3tech. When he said that, I thought right away this guy has no right being a gm. U also know that both will be gone. A new gm always wants their own guy. People are all over Reich, and I have been as of late because I am frustrated. That being said look at what he did last year with Wentz. If go back the last 5 years qbs under him usually have their beat years or in Rivers case, a rejuvenation. I made a lot of the Bengals struggles this year. They have elite weapons every where but  Burrows was getting killed and those weapons were silent.

[Moosejawcolt]

4 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

 

How can he dispute it. Yea O line played like crap but man oh man, his de sion making is horrible and tons of turnovers.

[DougDew]

40 minutes ago, philba101 said:

Reich said they were going to draft a QB if they didn't get Ryan.

If this is true, this is telling bullnonsense.  I'm actually a bit angry at the Colts.

 

You don't change your QB draft plans simply because you have a new 38 year old QB for 2 years.  How dumb are these people?

 

It tells me that both of these guys, maybe all three, Reich. Ballard, and Irsay, are in perpetual win-now mode when it comes to looking at QBs.