Matt Ryan benched for Sam (merge)

[joeb]

16 hours ago, Dobbinblitz said:

One a positive note:

The Colts did not sell the farm to obtain Ryan, and the team received more than most expected when they dumped Wentz. 

I'll give you that. They still owe him alot of money though. The Qb experiment has failed. Erase the board. New plan.

[MikeCurtis]

20 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

Ehlinger is going to come in and tear it up. We will see a whole new offense with him at the wheel. The Colts are going to go on a winning steak as we position ourselves into a playoff spot! Be positive! Ehlinger has talent….dude is a winner. Go Colts!!

I hope you are right

 

I dont see it, but I hope you are right

[philba101]

This from the Athletic's Zak Keefer about how Ryan was benched for Ehlinger

"But something needed to change, and Irsay knew it. He let his top lieutenants know over the past few weeks. Ballard was on board with the move. And deep down, after Sunday’s loss, Reich realized it, too. The only way the Colts would ever find out whether Sam Ehlinger could play is if they gave him a shot."

 

In another writing it was explained like this: "Irsay was the most important voice in the decision, Ballard was on board with the move and after the week 7 loss to the Titans, so was Frank Reich.

 

If accurate, this pretty much spells it out for anyone who was speculating.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, philba101 said:

 

"But something needed to change, and Irsay knew it. He let his top lieutenants know over the past few weeks. Ballard was on board with the move. And deep down, after Sunday’s loss, Reich realized it, too. The only way the Colts would ever find out whether Sam Ehlinger could play is if they gave him a shot."

 

In another writing it was explained like this: "Irsay was the most important voice in the decision, Ballard was on board with the move and after the week 7 loss to the Titans, so was Frank Reich.

 

If accurate, this pretty much spells it out for anyone who was speculating.

If accurate, Irsay is still the general, and pretty active.

[coming on strong]

23 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If accurate, Irsay is still the general, and pretty active.

Sometimes the team needs it . Ballard wouldn’t make the move and start a Qb under 30 without Jim pushing him .   

[philba101]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

If accurate, Irsay is still the general, and pretty active.

Correct, I know a lot of people don't like that type of meddling by an owner in the middle of a season, and it is probably not a  great practice on a regular basis, but Irsay does sign all of the paychecks. I am sure he would prefer to not be doing this again but with everything that has happened in the past 12 months, he has resolved to intervene. He understands that this franchise is at a critical juncture concerning its future and he is not going to just sit idly by while it drifts to the bottom. If I am Irsay, I am not too pleased that I have to keep doing this with my GM and coach. Irsay has never fired a coach or GM in the middle of the season. If he does not like what he sees from Ballard and Reich for the final 10 games, he rightfully could move on from one or both.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Sometimes the team needs it . Ballard wouldn’t make the move and start a Qb under 30 without Jim pushing him .   

Agreed.  Whenever you trade for a $35M player, the owner is going to be involved.  I don't think the HC or the GM is going to make the decision to bench him.  They might call up to Irsay to see if its okay, but Irsay having to make the call in that situation doesn't seem out of line to me.

[philba101]

6 minutes ago, coming on strong said:

Sometimes the team needs it . Ballard wouldn’t make the move and start a Qb under 30 without Jim pushing him .   

You could be right, the article seems to suggest that Ballard was already onboard to move on from Ryan. Frank, was the last to come to the realization. Probably not surprising since he may be the one with the most at stake with Ryan's success.

[GoColts8818]

42 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

I hope you are right

 

I dont see it, but I hope you are right

This is where I am.  I still think the biggest problem wasn’t Matt Ryan but the line.  That’s not going to be magically better with a QB switch.  I think this move does mean they are out of answers with the line and are throwing up a Hail Mary to try to save their season.  I hope it works but like I said before I expect short term improvement just because Sam is an unknown and there isn’t useful tape on him.  Once those things exist I think you’ll see Sam come back to earth.  I’d love to be wrong though and will be cheering to be wrong.  

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, philba101 said:

If I am Irsay, I am not too pleased that I have to keep doing this with my GM and coach.

see above

[gspdx]

2 minutes ago, philba101 said:

Correct, I know a lot of people don't like that type of meddling by an owner in the middle of a season, and it is probably not a  great practice on a regular basis, but Irsay does sign all of the paychecks. I am sure he would prefer to not be doing this again but with everything that has happened in the past 12 months, he has resolved to intervene. He understands that this franchise is at a critical juncture concerning its future and he is not going to just sit idly by while it drifts to the bottom. If I am Irsay, I am not too pleased that I have to keep doing this with my GM and coach. Irsay has never fired a coach or GM in the middle of the season. If he does not like what he sees from Ballard and Reich for the final 10 games, he rightfully could move on from one or both.

 

At this point I don't know how Irsay would have faith in either to build a Super Bowl caliber team.  If he is thinking of replacing them I hope he is already beginning his process even if that is all internal with him and his daughters or whoever he trusts to keep things quiet.

 

A new GM would have lots to do to evaluate the roster and contracts to try to trade or let guys go, get ready for the draft, put together a coaching staff, etc.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, philba101 said:

You could be right, the article seems to suggest that Ballard was already onboard to move on from Ryan. Frank, was the last to come to the realization. Probably not surprising since he may be the one with the most at stake with Ryan's success.

If that report is true it makes me think Ballard feels secure in his job.  Maybe Irsay has made it known to Ballard his job isn’t on the line?  Just a thought reading into a report so clearly not a fact.

[philba101]

3 minutes ago, gspdx said:

 

At this point I don't know how Irsay would have faith in either to build a Super Bowl caliber team.  If he is thinking of replacing them I hope he is already beginning his process even if that is all internal with him and his daughters or whoever he trusts to keep things quiet.

 

A new GM would have lots to do to evaluate the roster and contracts to try to trade or let guys go, get ready for the draft, put together a coaching staff, etc.

Agreed, I wonder if this a foregone conclusion to move on from both, Irsay is just sticking to his rule that he doesn't believe it is at all helpful to do this in season. Of course I don't know if this is an actual strict rule for him, but only that he has never done it as has been pointed out by many on this forum.

[philba101]

13 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

If that report is true it makes me think Ballard feels secure in his job.  Maybe Irsay has made it known to Ballard his job isn’t on the line?  Just a thought reading into a report so clearly not a fact.

I don't know what Keefer's sources are, he could be speculating. I have heard several people on this forum suggest the same about Ballard's job security which could be true. Can you explain why it reads that way to you also? Maybe because Irsay and Ballard already seem to be in agreement about moving on from Ryan?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 hour ago, philba101 said:

This from the Athletic's Zak Keefer about how Ryan was benched for Ehlinger

"But something needed to change, and Irsay knew it. He let his top lieutenants know over the past few weeks. Ballard was on board with the move. And deep down, after Sunday’s loss, Reich realized it, too. The only way the Colts would ever find out whether Sam Ehlinger could play is if they gave him a shot."

 

In another writing it was explained like this: "Irsay was the most important voice in the decision, Ballard was on board with the move and after the week 7 loss to the Titans, so was Frank Reich.

 

If accurate, this pretty much spells it out for anyone who was speculating.

This organization is a mess. GM and coach are forced to take leftovers then the owner wants the young guy after he forced them to take left overs. It’s all just a dysfunctional mess.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

What’s crazy is they were ready to move on after only a few games. Why didn’t they just make Sam the starter instead of trading for Ryan.

[RollerColt]

40 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Agreed.  Whenever you trade for a $35M player, the owner is going to be involved.  I don't think the HC or the GM is going to make the decision to bench him.  They might call up to Irsay to see if its okay, but Irsay having to make the call in that situation doesn't seem out of line to me.

I've been hearing more and more chatter from radio and online talk on speculation that Irsay was pushing for this at least starting a few weeks ago. Nothing officially confirmed, but it's coming from several separate groups (NBC, CBS, Pro Football Talk, Rich Eisen, Dan Patrick...) all saying the same thing that this has been brewing for at least a few weeks.

[philba101]

2 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This organization is a mess. GM and coach are forced to take leftovers then the owner wants the young guy after he forced them to take left overs. It’s all just a dysfunctional mess.

There is no question that Irsay intervened after the meltdown at the end of last year. Ballard and Reich seemed to be pleased in the offseason that they lucked into acquiring Ryan, at least that is what they were saying. Jamies Winston was rumored to be the option had Ryan not come available. Ballard has seemed to be fine with the veteran band-aid QB approach (Rivers, Wentz, & Ryan). I am not sure that Ballard or Reich should get off the hook for their records even if Irsay got impatient.

[philba101]

6 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

What’s crazy is they were ready to move on after only a few games. Why didn’t they just make Sam the starter instead of trading for Ryan.

It is a good question.  I wonder if this was discussed in the offseason before Ryan became available.

[DougDew]

7 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

What’s crazy is they were ready to move on after only a few games. Why didn’t they just make Sam the starter instead of trading for Ryan.

Frank said that they "looked at the tape" of Ryan and thought that he had zip and would do well with our running game, in that Ryan prefers play action.

 

It seems they have decided that he lacks zip and that the oline will not get better.  Probably talent wise, and maybe they see a dropoff in Nelson that is more than temporary this season.

[DougDew]

10 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I've been hearing more and more chatter from radio and online talk on speculation that Irsay was pushing for this at least starting a few weeks ago. Nothing officially confirmed, but it's coming from several separate groups (NBC, CBS, Pro Football Talk, Rich Eisen, Dan Patrick...) all saying the same thing that this has been brewing for at least a few weeks.

He questioned Wentz leadership early last season based on his vax status. 

 

That's two years in a row then where he has basically cut off his management team at the knees shortly after they made a big decision.

 

Not sure how to think about that.

[Moosejawcolt]

38 minutes ago, philba101 said:

Agreed, I wonder if this a foregone conclusion to move on from both, Irsay is just sticking to his rule that he doesn't believe it is at all helpful to do this in season. Of course I don't know if this is an actual strict rule for him, but only that he has never done it as has been pointed out by many on this forum.

I go back and forth on if he will fire Reich and Ballard. I truly believe that if Sam shows that he can become the franchise in the next 10 weeks than no. I don't think he would fire either if Sam is the guy moving into next year. Irsay would want consistency. Now if Sam is obviously not the guy then I think Irsay moves on from both. Honestly, I would not want Ballard picking the next franchise qb. I just don't trust him that much right now in evaluating players.  Honestly, I hope Sam balls out and shows us he is the guy. He seems to be a guy that everyone wants to aee succeed. If he is our guy, I bet my new motorcycle that we draft a LT in the 1st round. Mark that one down lol...

[krunk]

I think Ballard is secure. Im iffy about Frank unless Sam shows to be the answer. Franks pretty decent with good QB play. Team does seem to be a bit flat at times though.

[2006Coltsbestever]

18 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

This organization is a mess. GM and coach are forced to take leftovers then the owner wants the young guy after he forced them to take left overs. It’s all just a dysfunctional mess.

[philba101]

2 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I go back and forth on if he will fire Reich and Ballard. I truly believe that if Sam shows that he can become the franchise in the next 10 weeks than no. I don't think he would fire either if Sam is the guy moving into next year. Irsay would want consistency. Now if Sam is obviously not the guy then I think Irsay moves on from both. Honestly, I would not want Ballard picking the next franchise qb. I just don't trust him that much right now in evaluating players.  Honestly, I hope Sam balls out and shows us he is the guy. He seems to be a guy that everyone wants to aee succeed. If he is our guy, I bet my new motorcycle that we draft a LT in the 1st round. Mark that one down lol...

I agree...but hold onto that motorcycle...lol..

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

If he is our guy, I bet my new motorcycle that we draft a LT in the 1st round. Mark that one down lol...

Yup.  I've already been reading WalterFootball.  Some good candidates with proper length.

[RollerColt]

6 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I go back and forth on if he will fire Reich and Ballard. I truly believe that if Sam shows that he can become the franchise in the next 10 weeks than no. I don't think he would fire either if Sam is the guy moving into next year. Irsay would want consistency. Now if Sam is obviously not the guy then I think Irsay moves on from both. Honestly, I would not want Ballard picking the next franchise qb. I just don't trust him that much right now in evaluating players.  Honestly, I hope Sam balls out and shows us he is the guy. He seems to be a guy that everyone wants to aee succeed. If he is our guy, I bet my new motorcycle that we draft a LT in the 1st round. Mark that one down lol...

Colin Cowherd has been speculating if Chris Ballard talked Irsay into keeping Reich for one more year after the Jags collapse last season. He's not confirming anything, but that's what he wonders. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 minute ago, RollerColt said:

Colin Cowherd has been speculating if Chris Ballard talked Irsay into keeping Reich for one more year after the Jags collapse last season. He's not confirming anything, but that's what he wonders. 

Colin is an *. Sorry but he is so unreliable. It's all conjecture. I do think that they all talked it out and the decision was to go with Sam. I do believe that Sam has to show he is the guy for Ballard and Reich to have a job.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

17 minutes ago, philba101 said:

It is a good question.  I wonder if this was discussed in the offseason before Ryan became available.

I mean that would of been the logical choice. See what you have and if not go to the draft. This all makes zero sense. I do remember before the Ryan trade there was talk that Sam was a possibility. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Colin Cowherd has been speculating if Chris Ballard talked Irsay into keeping Reich for one more year after the Jags collapse last season. He's not confirming anything, but that's what he wonders. 

Colin is usually tuned in to the colts well. He will put things in a speculative way just to not give up a source or make it look like he has a source. I would be 50/50 on if that was true. 
 

The way Ballard is letting Reich fall in the sword and not taking some blame it almost sounds true. 

[philba101]

4 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Colin Cowherd has been speculating if Chris Ballard talked Irsay into keeping Reich for one more year after the Jags collapse last season. He's not confirming anything, but that's what he wonders. 

This makes it sound like everyone thinks Ballard is so secure in his position. If so, why? He bares as much responsibility for not finding a QB to lead this team as anybody, even if Irsay forced their hands last year. He also failed to assemble a line that could protect that QB. Can't blame Reich on that one.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I mean that would of been the logical choice. See what you have and if not go to the draft. This all makes zero sense. I do remember before the Ryan trade there was talk that Sam was a possibility. 

Remember the discussion last year about whether or not the Colts had a plan?

 

They didn't.  The plan was to throw darts.   Irsay might have a more specific plan now.

[#12.]

2 minutes ago, krunk said:

I think Ballard is secure. Im iffy about Frank unless Sam shows to be the answer. Franks pretty decent with good QB play. Team does seem to be a bit flat at times though.

 

Those are the two main problems - QB and 4 quarter, 16, 17 game consistency.  

 

Ballard isn’t perfect, but the teams over the past 5 years or so have been some of the more well rounded, more complete teams we have had in Indy.  Unless Sam saves the day for Frank, in the end, Irsay will choose to see how Ballard's players do under a different coach, and Ballard will probably be picking the coach.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Remember the discussion last year about whether or not the Colts had a plan?

 

They didn't.  The plan was to throw darts.   Irsay might have a more specific plan now.

Ballard admitted there was no plan. Just to see what was left over. At that point you do to things. Keep Wentz or move on to the young guy. It’s really not that complicated.

[philba101]

5 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

I mean that would of been the logical choice. See what you have and if not go to the draft. This all makes zero sense. I do remember before the Ryan trade there was talk that Sam was a possibility. 

It makes you think that Irsay or Ballard wanted Ryan more then. Reich might not have gotten as much input after the Wentz let down. If it was Irsay it seems he would have gotten his wish and Sam would have been the choice. That leads me to believe that Ballard preferred the band-aid QB route again over Sam. But that brings me back to your earlier statement, why were Ballard and Irsay so eager to move on from Ryan if they preferred him over Sam?

[#12.]

Has it crossed anyone's mind that Sam has perhaps improved over the past year plus?  Maybe he wasn't ready and didn't look like a starter 8-9 months ago?

 

Last preseason I thought Sam looked nothing like a starting NFL QB.  This preseason he started to change my mind.

[philba101]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Remember the discussion last year about whether or not the Colts had a plan?

 

They didn't.  The plan was to throw darts.   Irsay might have a more specific plan now.

It sure did sound that way when they admitted that they were lucky to have Ryan become available after the Falcons failed trade of Watson. We heard that a plane was waiting for Winston before this. Reich said they were going to draft a QB if they didn't get Ryan. Maybe that was true even if they would have ended up with Winston or Mariota.

[RollerColt]

Just now, #12. said:

Has it crossed anyone's mind that Sam has perhaps improved over the past year plus?  Maybe he wasn't ready and didn't look like a starter 8-9 months ago?

 

Last preseason I thought Sam looked nothing like a starting NFL QB.  This preseason he started to change my mind.

He also didn't look like a starter just a few months ago, when they put Nick Foles ahead of him in the lineup and he had to scratch his way into 3rd string and on the roster... I don't know man... I don't know... I think we're downing and flailing at this point, and hoping Sam can save us. 

[csmopar]

22 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

Colin Cowherd has been speculating if Chris Ballard talked Irsay into keeping Reich for one more year after the Jags collapse last season. He's not confirming anything, but that's what he wonders. 

I’ve wondered that a time or three as well. But no proof of this.

 

 

part of me wonders again if Reich is the one selecting these QBs. Ballard just signing the checks. 

9 minutes ago, TaylorTheStudMuffin said:

Ballard admitted there was no plan. Just to see what was left over. At that point you do to things. Keep Wentz or move on to the young guy. It’s really not that complicated.

Link?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Seems like the bandaid should of been ripped off at the start of season rather then reading for Ryan. I imagine we probably wouldn’t of got Gilmore but that would of been ok.

 

San has a great opportunity that 6th round QB never get. Hopefully he makes the most out of it.