Dayo: Stats, Film, Position?, Impact to Defo?

[EastStreet]

Was going to wait till he's closer to coming back to create this thread, but the topic seems to be popping up, so here we go.... 

 

• Things we know are true
  • He's a very intriguing prospect
  • He's got rare measurables (size, speed)
    • 6-6 and 285 (Defo is 6-7 and 287)
  • Has violent combative rush, but extremely unpolished, and strength is questionable for size.
  • Missed a lot of tackles
  • Lined up outside and inside
    • Snaps by Alignment
      • 2020/2019/2018
      • A Gap 31/22/4
      • B Gap 30/182/111
      • Over Tackle 146/160/101
      • Outside Tackle 220/273/256
      • Off Ball  1/4/1
• He's had questionable production
  • Games he's had sacks in - 
    • 2017 (0.5 Total) - UTn (0.5) 
    • 2018 (0.5) - AR (0.5)
    • 2019 (1.5) - ETNSt (1.5)
    • 2020 (5.5) - TAMU (1.0), SC (1.5), MSSt (1.0), MO (2.0)
    • Only 8 total sacks in 4 years, zero vs teams with traditionally good OLs like UGA, Bama, FL, KY, LSU, ND, 
  • Games he's had TFLs in - 
    • 2017 (2.0 Total) - ALA&M (0.5), UTn (1.5) 
    • 2018 (4.5) - ND (0.5), TNSt (1.0), AR (1.5), UTn (1.0), Baylor (0.5)
    • 2019 - (12.0) - UGA (1.0), PU (2.0), MS (0.5), UNLV (1.0), MO (0.5), SC (1.0), ETSt (3.5), UTn (2.5)
    • 2020 (8.0) - TAMU (2.0), SC (1.5), MS (0.5), MSSt (1.0), MO (3.0)
    • 26.5 total in 4 years. Better than his sack total, and nice 2020 in a shortened season against all P5 SEC teams.
• Questions
  • It's not a stretch to think he's very raw, and relies a lot on power/size. Can he up his game technique wise to be more effective getting home (sacks)?
  • Will he even play much DE? He's Defo size, and Colts have said early and just recently that he'll start at DE, but the plan is to move him inside. 
  • And if he moves inside, what about Defo? Colts have an easy out (of Defo's contract) after next year, with zero cap penalty IIRC. Is he more or less a means to jettison Defo's big contract?
  • And if he's not a long term DE, looks like Paye plus who? Lewis is up for contract. Turay is up for contract and has injury issues. Banogu hasn't been anything close to an answer. 
  • And overall, what can we expect this year? Next year? and beyond?
• Video 
  • I've included some film studies below
  • Keep in mind the competition during the film. Non P5s, and P5 cellar dwellers should be taken with several grains of salt.
  • I've seen some "heavy footed" comments about Dayo. Not sure I see that. He's very fast for a 6-6 guy at 285. Big guys look slower even if they're not.

 

 

 

 

Defo's contract detail

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/deforest-buckner-18955/#:~:text=Current Contract,average annual salary of %2421%2C000%2C000.

 

 

For those that don't know, Baker is our DL coach.

[EastStreet]

Here's a cut from an article (link below) talking about working him back slowly.

 

“I’m not that ‘throw it all at ‘em’ guy," Baker said. "Here’s what I worry about. If expectations are too high or if the things you’re asking him to do too much, he’s not going to have success, and if they don’t have success early, then what are they recording? They’re recording failure.

 

"And there’s going to be some of that, and they can learn from some of that, but if they’re overwhelmed, then you’ve got to get them out of the hole. Him and (first-round pick) Kwity (Paye), to a lesser degree — they’re developmental players. They’re talented developmental players, but they’re developmental players.”

 

To speed up his learning curve, the Colts want Odeyingbo to play primarily as a defensive end early in his career. The Colts know the maturation process for a defensive lineman takes time. Every rep taken in practice is vital to the long term progression of a defensive lineman. Odeyingbo said his understanding of the game and three years of starting experience at the SEC level should allow him to get up to speed after missing time during training camp and the preseason.

 

He may look like an All-Pro pass rusher, but he's solely focused on improving his craft and putting his impressive tools to use on the field. 

 

"For me, I'm really coming in with no expectations," he said. "I was finally happy to get out there yesterday and kind of like set a baseline, and be able to grow from something. ... I'm just trying to get better every day and that will take me where it does." 

 

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2021/10/21/colts-de-dayo-odeyingbo-achilles-flashing-potential-return/8501968002/

[Bravo]

Let’s have a wait and see approach on Dayo…..  Dude is coming off a serious injury.

 

Also I don’t believe Dayo being good will effect Buckners contract or importance to the team.

 

But Buckner does need to start playing up to his $100m level…

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, bravo4460 said:

Let’s have a wait and see approach on Dayo…..  Dude is coming off a serious injury.

 

Also I don’t believe Dayo being good will effect Buckners contract or importance to the team.

 

But Buckner does need to start playing up to his $100m level…

 

Like or not, the hype has already started with his return to practice, and it's only going to build steam..... More justification, or slight of hand, from the delayed gratification crowd lol....

 

I'm not sure Dayo will impact Defo either, but it's pretty clear they drafted Dayo with the intention of moving him inside (per Baker directly). And if that's the case, and he turns out to be good, it absolutely will impact Dayo. I mean, what are you going to do with two 3Ts that are good. Not play a NT? And Defo's contract runs out right when Dayo will need to be extended. But first he has to be good... 

 

Not sure any 3T is going to have monster numbers in our scheme, unless we have a monster DE on one or both sides that draws doubles. 

[NewColtsFan]

42 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

Like or not, the hype has already started with his return to practice, and it's only going to build steam..... More justification, or slight of hand, from the delayed gratification crowd lol....

 

I'm not sure Dayo will impact Defo either, but it's pretty clear they drafted Dayo with the intention of moving him inside (per Baker directly). And if that's the case, and he turns out to be good, it absolutely will impact Dayo. I mean, what are you going to do with two 3Ts that are good. Not play a NT? And Defo's contract runs out right when Dayo will need to be extended. But first he has to be good... 

 

Not sure any 3T is going to have monster numbers in our scheme, unless we have a monster DE on one or both sides that draws doubles. 

Regarding the “delayed gratification crowd, lol” you commented on…..

 

Say what you will about the crowd, but the three people who are the originators of this view are named Ballard,  Irsay, and Reich.    This is their view.    
 

When I linked the Ballard story from late May a few weeks ago I had a pretty good idea who would understand and accept the concept…,   And who would reject it, and mock it.   The fact you’re in this group is not the least bit surprising.    
 

Attack me all you want.  I’ll simply say if you don’t like it, take it up with Ballard, Irsay, and Reich.    I’m good with that.    Lol! 

[EastStreet]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Regarding the “delayed gratification crowd, lol” you commented on…..

 

Say what you will about the crowd, but the three people who are the originators of this view are named Ballard,  Irsay, and Reich.    This is their view.    
 

When I linked the Ballard story from late May a few weeks ago I had a pretty good idea who would understand and accept the concept…,   And who would reject it, and mock it.   The fact you’re in this group is not the least bit surprising.    
 

Attack me all you want.  I’ll simply say if you don’t like it, take it up with Ballard, Irsay, and Reich.    I’m good with that.    Lol! 

 

Are you on an eternal search for pearls to clutch? lol... 

 

One can understand the concept of delayed gratification (I'm actually a big fan of it from a human nature perspective), and still laugh at being used in coach speak. And the "because Ballard, Reich, Irsay, said so" excuse is tired and doesn't move any needles. 

 

Now back to the topic... Any comments on Dayo?

[holeymoley99]

I think he will come in as a DE and hold his own , I think they will continue to use him as such. Him and Paye could become a very good pair NOT Mathis and Freeney level but that is rare but very effective level and with Defo and Stewart in the middle really like our starting D Line.

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, holeymoley99 said:

I think he will come in as a DE and hold his own , I think they will continue to use him as such. Him and Paye could become a very good pair NOT Mathis and Freeney level but that is rare but very effective level and with Defo and Stewart in the middle really like our starting D Line.

That would be my "hope" too. But I don't see it working out like that. 

Watching his film, he wasn't successful much on the outside vs good SEC teams. 

Now I'm not saying he won't improve with technique coaching, but he's definitely a "project". 

 

And you can't ignore Baker's comments that their intention is to move him inside.

And it's a long time away, but Paye, Dayo, and Buckner will all be due for extensions in 2024. If Paye and Dayo both turn out to be as good as the FO expects, and they use them the way the FO intended when drafted, then I don't see all three being extended. 

 

Hopefully both Paye and Dayo are as advertised and develop, and it'll create "good problems".

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

Are you on an eternal search for pearls to clutch? lol... 

 

One can understand the concept of delayed gratification (I'm actually a big fan of it from a human nature perspective), and still laugh at being used in coach speak. And the "because Ballard, Reich, Irsay, said so" excuse is tired and doesn't move any needles. 

 

Now back to the topic... Any comments on Dayo?

Yes….  I’m glad we drafted him and I hope we don’t rush him back.   I’m a patient fan and don’t mind waiting for the payoff even if it comes next year.    I was pleased on draft day and said so.   And I’ve been pleased with the pick ever since. 
 

As for the rest of your nonsense….   Par for the course.   Let’s be clear, you oppose this philosophy for this team.   But if it works, you’ll try to find a way to claim you supported it all along.    You being you.   Clutch that!

[EastStreet]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Yes….  I’m glad we drafted him and I hope we don’t rush him back.   I’m a patient fan and don’t mind waiting for the payoff even if it comes next year. 
 

As for the rest of your nonsense….   Par for the course.   Let’s be clear, you oppose this philosophy for this team.   But if it works, you’ll try to find a way to claim you supported it all along.    You being you.   Clutch that!

I've been very clear about my stance on Dayo. I love the value of him in the 2nd.

I also don't like the timing of the pick paired with letting both DEs go on top of needing a LT.

Clear enough? Nothing shocking.... I hope it works out.

 

And it's sounding more and more like the FO's plans for him aren't DE long term. You know, because Baker said... lol

 

 

[csmopar]

10 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Was going to wait till he's closer to coming back to create this thread, but the topic seems to be popping up, so here we go.... 

 

• Things we know are true
  • He's a very intriguing prospect
  • He's got rare measurables (size, speed)
    • 6-6 and 285 (Defo is 6-7 and 287)
  • Has violent combative rush, but extremely unpolished, and strength is questionable for size.
  • Missed a lot of tackles
  • Lined up outside and inside
    • Snaps by Alignment
      • 2020/2019/2018
      • A Gap 31/22/4
      • B Gap 30/182/111
      • Over Tackle 146/160/101
      • Outside Tackle 220/273/256
      • Off Ball  1/4/1
• He's had questionable production
  • Games he's had sacks in - 
    • 2017 (0.5 Total) - UTn (0.5) 
    • 2018 (0.5) - AR (0.5)
    • 2019 (1.5) - ETNSt (1.5)
    • 2020 (5.5) - TAMU (1.0), SC (1.5), MSSt (1.0), MO (2.0)
    • Only 8 total sacks in 4 years, zero vs teams with traditionally good OLs like UGA, Bama, FL, KY, LSU, ND, 
  • Games he's had TFLs in - 
    • 2017 (2.0 Total) - ALA&M (0.5), UTn (1.5) 
    • 2018 (4.5) - ND (0.5), TNSt (1.0), AR (1.5), UTn (1.0), Baylor (0.5)
    • 2019 - (12.0) - UGA (1.0), PU (2.0), MS (0.5), UNLV (1.0), MO (0.5), SC (1.0), ETSt (3.5), UTn (2.5)
    • 2020 (8.0) - TAMU (2.0), SC (1.5), MS (0.5), MSSt (1.0), MO (3.0)
    • 26.5 total in 4 years. Better than his sack total, and nice 2020 in a shortened season against all P5 SEC teams.
• Questions
  • It's not a stretch to think he's very raw, and relies a lot on power/size. Can he up his game technique wise to be more effective getting home (sacks)?
  • Will he even play much DE? He's Defo size, and Colts have said early and just recently that he'll start at DE, but the plan is to move him inside. 
  • And if he moves inside, what about Defo? Colts have an easy out (of Defo's contract) after next year, with zero cap penalty IIRC. Is he more or less a means to jettison Defo's big contract?
  • And if he's not a long term DE, looks like Paye plus who? Lewis is up for contract. Turay is up for contract and has injury issues. Banogu hasn't been anything close to an answer. 
  • And overall, what can we expect this year? Next year? and beyond?
• Video 
  • I've included some film studies below
  • Keep in mind the competition during the film. Non P5s, and P5 cellar dwellers should be taken with several grains of salt.
  • I've seen some "heavy footed" comments about Dayo. Not sure I see that. He's very fast for a 6-6 guy at 285. Big guys look slower even if they're not.

 

 

 

 

Defo's contract detail

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/deforest-buckner-18955/#:~:text=Current Contract,average annual salary of %2421%2C000%2C000.

 

 

For those that don't know, Baker is our DL coach.

I’ve always pictured Dayo as our DE with the occasional rotation with stewart . I don’t see Buckner getting kicked to the curb. Matter of fact, I think the future plan is a Dayo, Buckner,  Stewart(or a younger draftee ) and Paye. 

[Matabix]

After doing my expert recliner scouting. I think Dayo will have 2 sacks and 100 QB pressures.

Like Paye I was concerned about the stat line. If we get halfway decent coverage from the 2ndary they both could be great. I think we should still be looking for a pure DE.

[DougDew]

Multiple thought post alert:

 

I liked Dayo as a potential draft pick long before he hurt his achilles late in the year.  Afterwards, I totally forgot about him as I thought he would be off the draft board, but I was happy that Ballard liked him and thought that he was a first round player. I wanted Ballard to get one of the LTs at 54 or trade down to take Spencer Brown, but taking Dayo sort of muted the miss on a OT because I liked him as a replacement tweener for Lewis before his injury.

 

Dayo is a tweener.  Plays DE on "running downs" and DT (in place of Grover) on "passing downs".  His job as DE is not to get sacks, per se, so any statistical analysis or rankings that compare him to other NFL LDEs might be a poor measure of evaluating Dayo.

 

In modern NFL where there are more mobile QBs than pocket QBs, Dayos job will be to hold the edge and keep the QB contained in the pocket so that Paye and Defo can collect the sacks.  Dayo will get his sacks when the QB is chased or is trying to escape.  Compare this approach to the typical Robert mathis type of LDE that loops around the RT.  In the days of pocket passers like Marino and Brady, Mathis's would approach the QB from nearly directly behind them.  In today's NFL, that type of LDE will leave a gaping hole for the Mahomes, Allens. and Lamars to run through.    

 

Dayo will have the QB come to him, whereby his length can disrupt the escape, redirect it, or even get a sack. 

 

Dayos sacks will not come from him running to the QB, but from the QB running to him.  That's going to make comparing his stats to other LDEs stats almost moot if the other LDEs have a more "get to the QB" approach.  Also, since Dayo will be holding the mobile QB in the pocket, Paye's rankings and sack stats will be inflated when compared to RDE that have a LDE that allows the QB to escape.

 

Separate thought:

 

At 6'6 285, Dayo runs the risk of filling out more as young humans tend to do when they hit their mid 20s.  Since our 43 does not employ a traditional fatty NT, if Dayo would gain 10 to 15 pounds he could displace Grover as the NT...perhaps even become a 3 down NT to pair with 3 down 3T Defo.....so, Dayo puts the risk on Grovers future contract rather Defos, IMO.

 

But who knows, injuries to Defo or Grover, or Dayos ability or inability to maintain weight, or gain it, is going to influence his future way more than we can predict today.

 

As of today, he is a tweener who is not really expected to collect the sack stats as some others in the NFL might, JMO.

 

 

 

 

 

[Solid84]

Classic Ballard pick - great measurables, raw, little to no college production. He hasn’t had a lot of luck with that approach so far when it comes to Dline, so I’m extremely skeptical. 
 

He’s coming off a pretty severe injury and if Fisher is anything to go by I don’t think we should expect anything from him this year. 
 

I hope he surprises because we really need that elite sack/pressure from our Dline. 

[BProland85]

Ballard compared him to Justin Tuck who was a tweener type DL player. He can be a great DE on early downs who moves inside next to Buckner on obvious passing downs. 

[MPStack]

@EastStreet

 

[#12.]

3 hours ago, Solid84 said:

Classic Ballard pick - great measurables, raw, little to no college production. 

 

In 2013, Mathis had more sacks than Turay, Lewis, Banogu and Kwity have so far combined for in their careers.  We'll see what Dayo adds.  

[Solid84]

27 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

In 2013, Mathis had more sacks than Turay, Lewis, Banogu and Kwity have so far combined for in their careers.  We'll see what Dayo adds.  

Yeah, not what we’ve hoped for with those guys. It’s of course too early to judge Kwity, but the rest…

[Thunderbolt]

Hope he stays at DE. This should help both players (Defo)b/c it helps the other when one gets doubled up. 

[EastStreet]

7 hours ago, csmopar said:

I’ve always pictured Dayo as our DE with the occasional rotation with stewart . I don’t see Buckner getting kicked to the curb. Matter of fact, I think the future plan is a Dayo, Buckner,  Stewart(or a younger draftee ) and Paye. 

Hope so

[EastStreet]

2 hours ago, BProland85 said:

Ballard compared him to Justin Tuck who was a tweener type DL player. He can be a great DE on early downs who moves inside next to Buckner on obvious passing downs. 

Outside of the tweener possibilities, I really don't think the comp is a good one. Dayo is much bigger, and Tuck was much faster/bendier, and Tuck had very nice production in college unlike Dayo. And while Tuck did play the tweener roll, it was likely due to the two Pro Bowl DEs already on the roster. Both of their draft stock suffered due to injury though... 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, MPStack said:

@EastStreet

 

[MPStack]

51 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

[EastStreet]

20 minutes ago, MPStack said:

[NewColtsFan]

14 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I've been very clear about my stance on Dayo. I love the value of him in the 2nd.

I also don't like the timing of the pick paired with letting both DEs go on top of needing a LT.

Clear enough? Nothing shocking.... I hope it works out.

 

And it's sounding more and more like the FO's plans for him aren't DE long term. You know, because Baker said... lol

 

 

The plans for Dayo at DE aren’t long term? 
 

I have no idea what that means, but we’ll just play this out as it does.   Nothing you and I say could possibly change a thing….  

[EastStreet]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

The plans for Dayo at DE aren’t long term? 
 

I have no idea what that means, but we’ll just play this out as it does.   Nothing you and I say could possibly change a thing….  

The DL coach (Baker) said this week he'll start out at DE not to overwhelm him, but the long term plan is to move him inside. 

See tweet at the bottom of the OP.

[Moosejawcolt]

21 hours ago, EastStreet said:

Was going to wait till he's closer to coming back to create this thread, but the topic seems to be popping up, so here we go.... 

 

• Things we know are true
  • He's a very intriguing prospect
  • He's got rare measurables (size, speed)
    • 6-6 and 285 (Defo is 6-7 and 287)
  • Has violent combative rush, but extremely unpolished, and strength is questionable for size.
  • Missed a lot of tackles
  • Lined up outside and inside
    • Snaps by Alignment
      • 2020/2019/2018
      • A Gap 31/22/4
      • B Gap 30/182/111
      • Over Tackle 146/160/101
      • Outside Tackle 220/273/256
      • Off Ball  1/4/1
• He's had questionable production
  • Games he's had sacks in - 
    • 2017 (0.5 Total) - UTn (0.5) 
    • 2018 (0.5) - AR (0.5)
    • 2019 (1.5) - ETNSt (1.5)
    • 2020 (5.5) - TAMU (1.0), SC (1.5), MSSt (1.0), MO (2.0)
    • Only 8 total sacks in 4 years, zero vs teams with traditionally good OLs like UGA, Bama, FL, KY, LSU, ND, 
  • Games he's had TFLs in - 
    • 2017 (2.0 Total) - ALA&M (0.5), UTn (1.5) 
    • 2018 (4.5) - ND (0.5), TNSt (1.0), AR (1.5), UTn (1.0), Baylor (0.5)
    • 2019 - (12.0) - UGA (1.0), PU (2.0), MS (0.5), UNLV (1.0), MO (0.5), SC (1.0), ETSt (3.5), UTn (2.5)
    • 2020 (8.0) - TAMU (2.0), SC (1.5), MS (0.5), MSSt (1.0), MO (3.0)
    • 26.5 total in 4 years. Better than his sack total, and nice 2020 in a shortened season against all P5 SEC teams.
• Questions
  • It's not a stretch to think he's very raw, and relies a lot on power/size. Can he up his game technique wise to be more effective getting home (sacks)?
  • Will he even play much DE? He's Defo size, and Colts have said early and just recently that he'll start at DE, but the plan is to move him inside. 
  • And if he moves inside, what about Defo? Colts have an easy out (of Defo's contract) after next year, with zero cap penalty IIRC. Is he more or less a means to jettison Defo's big contract?
  • And if he's not a long term DE, looks like Paye plus who? Lewis is up for contract. Turay is up for contract and has injury issues. Banogu hasn't been anything close to an answer. 
  • And overall, what can we expect this year? Next year? and beyond?
• Video 
  • I've included some film studies below
  • Keep in mind the competition during the film. Non P5s, and P5 cellar dwellers should be taken with several grains of salt.
  • I've seen some "heavy footed" comments about Dayo. Not sure I see that. He's very fast for a 6-6 guy at 285. Big guys look slower even if they're not.

 

 

 

 

Defo's contract detail

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/indianapolis-colts/deforest-buckner-18955/#:~:text=Current Contract,average annual salary of %2421%2C000%2C000.

 

 

For those that don't know, Baker is our DL coach.

Honestly based on Ballard's drafting of Dlinemen, I am not to excited about him impact on this team.

[EastStreet]

12 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Honestly based on Ballard's drafting of Dlinemen, I am not to excited about him impact on this team.

[cdgacoltsfan]

20 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Honestly based on Ballard's drafting of Dlinemen, I am not to excited about him impact on this team.

Im thinking a DL with a torn Achilles isnt going to save our season...but that's just me.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

2 minutes ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Im thinking a DL with a torn Achilles isnt going to save our season...but that's just me.

Anyone that expects him to have a impact this season is fooling themselves. He probably won’t even get many snaps when he starts playing. But we should be able to see a flash or two to know he is the real deal.

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, Wentzszn said:

Anyone that expects him to have a impact this season is fooling themselves. He probably won’t even get many snaps when he starts playing. But we should be able to see a flash or two to know he is the real deal.

 

He and Fisher had the same injury, around the same time. Dayo is younger (likely heals faster). Fisher is playing his 6th game this weekend.

 

While I agree his impact won't be much, it sounds like his opportunity might come sooner than thought.

 

And our depth and injury situation will make it easy for him to step into the rotation early.

 

Right now, our DE rotation (including the need to slide inside on passing downs) has been mostly Lewis and AQM. Paye has been gimpy. Turay unreliable... And you need at the very least, 4 guys to rotate. Bonagu doesn't seem to gaining traction. 

 

IMO, he'll be in the two deep sooner than later, unless Turay can stay healthy (big if) or Rochell starts making some plays.