Second Thoughts

[John Hammonds]

We're almost all the way through training camp, and we're poised for our second preseason game.  And I've got second thoughts.  I have to admit, I'm not all that jazzed about how Kylen Granson has turned out.  Sure, he's made a good catch here and there.  And he's also dropped a catch here and there.  Is he terrible?  Naw.  But I'm just not inspired to write home about him.  Not like Michael Strachan.

So, I was inspired to go back to the moment I gasped, and later raged a bit, during the draft.  I liked the choice of Kwite Paye.  But in the second round, I wanted us to take TE Pat Freiermuth.  Which the Steelers did with the very next pick.  News out of Steelers camp is that he's playing fairly well.  Not hugely well.  But well enough to write that he's playing well.

Ok, if we take Freiermuth in the 2nd, we wouldn't take Granson in the 4th.  Who would we take?  Look no further than to Steelers camp -- again.  Their 4th round pick, OT Dan Moore out of Texas A&M is playing well.  Not exactly well enough to start.  But he has already earned the backup job at LT.  And looks like he's playing better than both Tevi and Davenport.

Huh....  The Steelers, eh?  Both picks, eh?  Yeah, sorry.

 

Thus, under my "Second Thoughts" redraft, we would look like this:

1/21  Kwite Paye, DE, Michigan

2/54  Pat Freiermuth, TE Penn St

4/127  Dan Moore, OT, Texas A&M

5/165  Shawn Davis, S, Florida

6/218  Sam Ehlinger, QB, Texas

7/229  Michael Strachan, WR, Charleston

7/248  Will Fries, OG, Penn St

 

Oh, by the way, my draft favorite, Liam Eichenberg, has, for now, earned the starting LG spot for the Dolphins on their latest depth chart.

[MikeCurtis]

You may end up being right, but there are many of the scouts that are singing the praise of Granson

 

Its said that TEs take 2 years to develop, so you may want to see if we see development before a final judgement

 

The OTs available as said by others, were more RT vs LTs.

 

If we draft an OT in the second round that will be a backup to Smith, we would be wasting the pick a bit

 

If it were me, I would have grabbed some developmental LTs like  Stone Forsythe - RD 6,  Spencer Brown in round 3 , Brady Christensen Round 3

 

I think we could have wheeled and  dealed to get back into 3rd round to get a LT to develop if that would have made the case

[PrincetonTiger]

[NewColtsFan]

59 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

We're almost all the way through training camp, and we're poised for our second preseason game.  And I've got second thoughts.  I have to admit, I'm not all that jazzed about how Kylen Granson has turned out.  Sure, he's made a good catch here and there.  And he's also dropped a catch here and there.  Is he terrible?  Naw.  But I'm just not inspired to write home about him.  Not like Michael Strachan.

So, I was inspired to go back to the moment I gasped, and later raged a bit, during the draft.  I liked the choice of Kwite Paye.  But in the second round, I wanted us to take TE Pat Freiermuth.  Which the Steelers did with the very next pick.  News out of Steelers camp is that he's playing fairly well.  Not hugely well.  But well enough to write that he's playing well.

Ok, if we take Freiermuth in the 2nd, we wouldn't take Granson in the 4th.  Who would we take?  Look no further than to Steelers camp -- again.  Their 4th round pick, OT Dan Moore out of Texas A&M is playing well.  Not exactly well enough to start.  But he has already earned the backup job at LT.  And looks like he's playing better than both Tevi and Davenport.

Huh....  The Steelers, eh?  Both picks, eh?  Yeah, sorry.

 

Thus, under my "Second Thoughts" redraft, we would look like this:

1/21  Kwite Paye, DE, Michigan

2/54  Pat Freiermuth, TE Penn St

4/127  Dan Moore, OT, Texas A&M

5/165  Shawn Davis, S, Florida

6/218  Sam Ehlinger, QB, Texas

7/229  Michael Strachan, WR, Charleston

7/248  Will Fries, OG, Penn St

 

Oh, by the way, my draft favorite, Liam Eichenberg, has, for now, earned the starting LG spot for the Dolphins on their latest depth chart.

I confess I don’t understand the timing of this post?    You write we’re almost done with training camp.  Perhaps, but there are still two ps games to play so I think there’s plenty of interesting football that I want to see. 
 

And I don’t understand why you’ve jumped off the Granson bandwagon so soon?   After one game.   Most of the reviews for Granson have been very positive.   He looks like a natural mismatch playmaker who will only get better.   Reich loved him and it appears with good reason.  Just because he’s not as good as Strachan doesn’t mean he’s not good.  Guys like Strachan are the exception to the rule. 
 

And by the way, I loved Freirmuth and would’ve been happy if we had picked him at 54.    But Moore in the 4th wouldn’t have changed things for us now.   He’s not ready to start now.   He might someday,  but not now, not this year.  
 

I just don’t understand the rush to make pronouncements so soon?   You’re not the first to do this, and you won’t be the last.  I just don’t understand it?   
 

You’re a very smart football guy and I always look forward to reading your views. 

[Shadow_Creek]

1 hour ago, John Hammonds said:

We're almost all the way through training camp, and we're poised for our second preseason game.  And I've got second thoughts.  I have to admit, I'm not all that jazzed about how Kylen Granson has turned out.  Sure, he's made a good catch here and there.  And he's also dropped a catch here and there.  Is he terrible?  Naw.  But I'm just not inspired to write home about him.  Not like Michael Strachan.

So, I was inspired to go back to the moment I gasped, and later raged a bit, during the draft.  I liked the choice of Kwite Paye.  But in the second round, I wanted us to take TE Pat Freiermuth.  Which the Steelers did with the very next pick.  News out of Steelers camp is that he's playing fairly well.  Not hugely well.  But well enough to write that he's playing well.

Ok, if we take Freiermuth in the 2nd, we wouldn't take Granson in the 4th.  Who would we take?  Look no further than to Steelers camp -- again.  Their 4th round pick, OT Dan Moore out of Texas A&M is playing well.  Not exactly well enough to start.  But he has already earned the backup job at LT.  And looks like he's playing better than both Tevi and Davenport.

Huh....  The Steelers, eh?  Both picks, eh?  Yeah, sorry.

 

Thus, under my "Second Thoughts" redraft, we would look like this:

1/21  Kwite Paye, DE, Michigan

2/54  Pat Freiermuth, TE Penn St

4/127  Dan Moore, OT, Texas A&M

5/165  Shawn Davis, S, Florida

6/218  Sam Ehlinger, QB, Texas

7/229  Michael Strachan, WR, Charleston

7/248  Will Fries, OG, Penn St

 

Oh, by the way, my draft favorite, Liam Eichenberg, has, for now, earned the starting LG spot for the Dolphins on their latest depth chart.

look. when Hines was a rookie he fumbled the ball twice during a preseason game i believe and i remember how i made a statement on here saying that Ballard should bench him or something like that anyway fast forward till now and Hines is a beast. Just give Grandson sometime and he might just surprises us all. In fact i'm calling it now he will be future Dallas Clark 2.0

[chad72]

13 hours ago, Shadow_Creek said:

look. when Hines was a rookie he fumbled the ball twice during a preseason game i believe and i remember how i made a statement on here saying that Ballard should bench him or something like that anyway fast forward till now and Hines is a beast. Just give Grandson sometime and he might just surprises us all. In fact i'm calling it now he will be future Dallas Clark 2.0

I see more Jacob Tamme in him than DC.

 

But yes, we have to give a rookie TE a couple of years to see what he can bring to the table.

[rock8591]

17 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

We're almost all the way through training camp, and we're poised for our second preseason game.  And I've got second thoughts.  I have to admit, I'm not all that jazzed about how Kylen Granson has turned out.  Sure, he's made a good catch here and there.  And he's also dropped a catch here and there.  Is he terrible?  Naw.  But I'm just not inspired to write home about him.  Not like Michael Strachan.

So, I was inspired to go back to the moment I gasped, and later raged a bit, during the draft.  I liked the choice of Kwite Paye.  But in the second round, I wanted us to take TE Pat Freiermuth.  Which the Steelers did with the very next pick.  News out of Steelers camp is that he's playing fairly well.  Not hugely well.  But well enough to write that he's playing well.

Ok, if we take Freiermuth in the 2nd, we wouldn't take Granson in the 4th.  Who would we take?  Look no further than to Steelers camp -- again.  Their 4th round pick, OT Dan Moore out of Texas A&M is playing well.  Not exactly well enough to start.  But he has already earned the backup job at LT.  And looks like he's playing better than both Tevi and Davenport.

Huh....  The Steelers, eh?  Both picks, eh?  Yeah, sorry.

 

Thus, under my "Second Thoughts" redraft, we would look like this:

1/21  Kwite Paye, DE, Michigan

2/54  Pat Freiermuth, TE Penn St

4/127  Dan Moore, OT, Texas A&M

5/165  Shawn Davis, S, Florida

6/218  Sam Ehlinger, QB, Texas

7/229  Michael Strachan, WR, Charleston

7/248  Will Fries, OG, Penn St

 

Oh, by the way, my draft favorite, Liam Eichenberg, has, for now, earned the starting LG spot for the Dolphins on their latest depth chart.

 

Wouldn't take a TE in round 2.

This offense is based on a good QB and O-line. We already are loaded at RB. It's time to get by with average WRs and TEs.

[John Hammonds]

On 8/20/2021 at 7:25 PM, NewColtsFan said:

I confess I don’t understand the timing of this post?    You write we’re almost done with training camp.  Perhaps, but there are still two ps games to play so I think there’s plenty of interesting football that I want to see. 
 

And I don’t understand why you’ve jumped off the Granson bandwagon so soon?   After one game.   Most of the reviews for Granson have been very positive.   He looks like a natural mismatch playmaker who will only get better.   Reich loved him and it appears with good reason.  Just because he’s not as good as Strachan doesn’t mean he’s not good.  Guys like Strachan are the exception to the rule. 
 

And by the way, I loved Freirmuth and would’ve been happy if we had picked him at 54.    But Moore in the 4th wouldn’t have changed things for us now.   He’s not ready to start now.   He might someday,  but not now, not this year.  
 

I just don’t understand the rush to make pronouncements so soon?   You’re not the first to do this, and you won’t be the last.  I just don’t understand it?   
 

You’re a very smart football guy and I always look forward to reading your views. 

Hey there NCF,

 

Writing during the Vikings game.  I'm just not seeing it from Granson.  And, well, still not seeing it from him during the game either.  Is it time to pull the plug and call him a bust?  Of course not.  But I've been triggered, as it were, to remember what I had preferred our 2nd round pick to be.

 

Re: Moore.  No, I wasn't expecting him to be a starter at this point.  Although there are rumblings in Steelers world that he could challenge a lot earlier than previously though.  I simply thought he was making a better showing than Tevi or Davenport, and I would have been happier had he been the backup to Fisher, and possible starter in the 1st game, depending on Fisher's recovery.

 

Thus, combine the two changes in the draft, and... would we have been in a better position?  Meh, we'll see.  (see: the Zen Master speech from Charlie Wilson's War)

On 8/20/2021 at 7:31 PM, Shadow_Creek said:

look. when Hines was a rookie he fumbled the ball twice during a preseason game i believe and i remember how i made a statement on here saying that Ballard should bench him or something like that anyway fast forward till now and Hines is a beast. Just give Grandson sometime and he might just surprises us all. In fact i'm calling it now he will be future Dallas Clark 2.0

Truth!  Hines definitely did not impress early on with returns, and turned out to be pretty darned good at it!

[John Hammonds]

10 hours ago, rock8591 said:

 

Wouldn't take a TE in round 2.

This offense is based on a good QB and O-line. We already are loaded at RB. It's time to get by with average WRs and TEs.

That certainly appears to be the game plan.

[Hoose]

The Colts will need another young TE soon. Next year, I expect it to be a draft priority. But they will stick with the Big 3 this year and probably stash 2 TEs on the practice squad. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 hour ago, Hoose said:

The Colts will need another young TE soon. Next year, I expect it to be a draft priority. But they will stick with the Big 3 this year and probably stash 2 TEs on the practice squad. 

It may depend on who is available and where the Colts select 

[NorthernColt]

On 8/20/2021 at 6:15 PM, John Hammonds said:

We're almost all the way through training camp, and we're poised for our second preseason game.  And I've got second thoughts.  I have to admit, I'm not all that jazzed about how Kylen Granson has turned out.  Sure, he's made a good catch here and there.  And he's also dropped a catch here and there.  Is he terrible?  Naw.  But I'm just not inspired to write home about him.  Not like Michael Strachan.

So, I was inspired to go back to the moment I gasped, and later raged a bit, during the draft.  I liked the choice of Kwite Paye.  But in the second round, I wanted us to take TE Pat Freiermuth.  Which the Steelers did with the very next pick.  News out of Steelers camp is that he's playing fairly well.  Not hugely well.  But well enough to write that he's playing well.

Ok, if we take Freiermuth in the 2nd, we wouldn't take Granson in the 4th.  Who would we take?  Look no further than to Steelers camp -- again.  Their 4th round pick, OT Dan Moore out of Texas A&M is playing well.  Not exactly well enough to start.  But he has already earned the backup job at LT.  And looks like he's playing better than both Tevi and Davenport.

Huh....  The Steelers, eh?  Both picks, eh?  Yeah, sorry.

 

Thus, under my "Second Thoughts" redraft, we would look like this:

1/21  Kwite Paye, DE, Michigan

2/54  Pat Freiermuth, TE Penn St

4/127  Dan Moore, OT, Texas A&M

5/165  Shawn Davis, S, Florida

6/218  Sam Ehlinger, QB, Texas

7/229  Michael Strachan, WR, Charleston

7/248  Will Fries, OG, Penn St

 

Oh, by the way, my draft favorite, Liam Eichenberg, has, for now, earned the starting LG spot for the Dolphins on their latest depth chart.

 

Turned out?! Season hasn't even started yet my man! Its hard for any player let alone get into a rhythm in preseason with the constant player changes throughout the game, and vanilla playcalling, let alone a rookie.

 

I actually think he's going to have a great rookie year. He's not going to be the normal Frieirmuth kind of TE, he's the kind that Reich has been wanting for the last 3 years here, which is why they took him there. He's going to be a plug and play because Reich already has a cut out role for him in this system. He was hoping Burton could be that guy last year, but obviously he's slowed down quite a bit,

[CoachLite]

I like who we got and when we got them. Remember the warning in your forward looking mirror: "Objects in the future are closer than they appear."

[ColtJax]

Dayo Odeyingbo hasn't even seen the field yet and you're writing him off? On your list you switch out Granson but you keep in Davis, who's already been cut? We could have traded our 4th and gotten Ertz, but who knows how things will play out.

[Four2itus]

7 hours ago, ColtJax said:

Dayo Odeyingbo hasn't even seen the field yet and you're writing him off? On your list you switch out Granson but you keep in Davis, who's already been cut? We could have traded our 4th and gotten Ertz, but who knows how things will play out.

Dayo may turn out to be the best player of the Colts draft. 

[John Hammonds]

On 9/1/2021 at 7:02 AM, ColtJax said:

Dayo Odeyingbo hasn't even seen the field yet and you're writing him off? On your list you switch out Granson but you keep in Davis, who's already been cut? We could have traded our 4th and gotten Ertz, but who knows how things will play out.

LOL, there was nothing in my post about writing off Odeyingbo.  It was about watching Granson's meh performance in preseason, and wishing we had gone with Freiermuth in the 2nd round like I had originally hoped for, and having a better TE drafted than the one we got.  I've got this bad feeling that I'm going to be watching Freiermuth having a great career with the Steelers for the next 10 years, and wishing we had made a better choice at TE.

Now, if you want my opinion on Odeyingbo, it's limited to:  He sure doesn't look like he's going to contribute much at all to this season.  But I certainly hope he turns into everything that CB projected.

[NewColtsFan]

8 hours ago, John Hammonds said:

LOL, there was nothing in my post about writing off Odeyingbo.  It was about watching Granson's meh performance in preseason, and wishing we had gone with Freiermuth in the 2nd round like I had originally hoped for, and having a better TE drafted than the one we got.  I've got this bad feeling that I'm going to be watching Freiermuth having a great career with the Steelers for the next 10 years, and wishing we had made a better choice at TE.

Now, if you want my opinion on Odeyingbo, it's limited to:  He sure doesn't look like he's going to contribute much at all to this season.  But I certainly hope he turns into everything that CB projected.

 

JH.....

 

I'm with you wanting Freiermuth at pick 54.    I thought all the possible LT's I was interested in were gone, and I thought TE was a need and I loved Freiermuth.    That's who I expected.    And I was stunned when Dayo's name was read because I wrongly thought he was more of a 3-4 guy than 4-3.  

 

But everything Ballard and Dodds and Brown and the scouts and coaches have said about Dayo make me excited that we took him.    Ballard said the first time he looked at Dayo's film he predicted he'd go at pick 21.   In the interviews I've read and listened to,  I think the priority was Paye,  then Darrisaw if Paye was gone,  then Dayo if both were gone.    Dayo was in serious consideration at 21 even with his injury.   So, even with a talent like Freiermuth available we were willing to bypass him and take a kid who likely won't be available to us until November and even then, only on a limited basis.    We won't get the real Dayo until next year.       What does that tell you?      That we don't just like the guy,   we flat out LOVE the kid!

 

Guys like that are rare and special.   Think someone called him a unicorn.   I'm excited to see him in a way that Freiermuth likely will not provide.     Odds are,  we'll find our next tight end in the 22 draft.     Yes, we'll watch Freiermuth for years to come.     But other teams will have to deal with Dayo for those years as well.   

 

Just food for thought....

 

 

[stitches]

My thoughts right now are that it's way too early to tell. Pre-season is so different from actual NFL football. We've seen it before - camp heros become unplayable, anonymous camp performers become starters in the regular season. Lets wait a year or two and we can redo the draft then.

[John Hammonds]

7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

JH.....

 

I'm with you wanting Freiermuth at pick 54.    I thought all the possible LT's I was interested in were gone, and I thought TE was a need and I loved Freiermuth.    That's who I expected.    And I was stunned when Dayo's name was read because I wrongly thought he was more of a 3-4 guy than 4-3.  

 

But everything Ballard and Dodds and Brown and the scouts and coaches have said about Dayo make me excited that we took him.    Ballard said the first time he looked at Dayo's film he predicted he'd go at pick 21.   In the interviews I've read and listened to,  I think the priority was Paye,  then Darrisaw if Paye was gone,  then Dayo if both were gone.    Dayo was in serious consideration at 21 even with his injury.   So, even with a talent like Freiermuth available we were willing to bypass him and take a kid who likely won't be available to us until November and even then, only on a limited basis.    We won't get the real Dayo until next year.       What does that tell you?      That we don't just like the guy,   we flat out LOVE the kid!

 

Guys like that are rare and special.   Think someone called him a unicorn.   I'm excited to see him in a way that Freiermuth likely will not provide.     Odds are,  we'll find our next tight end in the 22 draft.     Yes, we'll watch Freiermuth for years to come.     But other teams will have to deal with Dayo for those years as well.   

 

Just food for thought....

 

 

Yup.  Totally agree with you.  If Dayo turns out to be everything that CB hoped he would be, we're going to have an AMAZING defensive line.

 

BTW, one last thought on Freiermuth.  I had to ask myself, is Freiermuth the kind of TE that we want for our offense?  Yes, he can get downfield.  Yes, he can catch.  Yes, he can get separation.  BUT, can he run block?  If we have a top-5 RB with a top-5 Offensive Line, we're gonna be running the ball.  A lot.  Does Freiermuth necessarily fit into that kind of TE?  Good question to ask.  I don't know the answer.

 

In the meantime, what's done is done.  Here's to hoping that Dayo does well.

[Dark Superman]

I wanted Pat Freiermuth months before the 2021 NFL Draft. When he was still on the board at 54, I was praying Ballard would pull the trigger on him to fill the void the Colts have at TE. I thought he would have fit in this offense perfectly and make an impact right away. I didn't like the Dayo pick at all because the Colts just took a DE with Paye in round 1 and Dayo is coming off an ACL injury and won't be able to play until half-way through the season at the earliest. After trading for Wentz, I felt like surrounding him with more weapons was a bigger priority and feel like Reich and Ballard failed.

[Hoose]

9 hours ago, Andrew_Luck said:

I wanted Pat Freiermuth months before the 2021 NFL Draft. When he was still on the board at 54, I was praying Ballard would pull the trigger on him to fill the void the Colts have at TE. I thought he would have fit in this offense perfectly and make an impact right away. I didn't like the Dayo pick at all because the Colts just took a DE with Paye in round 1 and Dayo is coming off an ACL injury and won't be able to play until half-way through the season at the earliest. After trading for Wentz, I felt like surrounding him with more weapons was a bigger priority and feel like Reich and Ballard failed.

I felt and still feel exactly the same way. But I'm willing to give the Colts' brass the benefit of the doubt here. Dayo may be a complete stud; it may be he's the missing piece to the pass rush. But I suspect Freiermuth will have a rock solid career, and the Colts truly need a stud TE who can block and catch. He was the smarter and safer pick. Ballard rolled the dice here; lets hope it turns out well. 

[ColtJax]

We could have used the Davis 5th round pick and our 2nd and jumped Washington to grab the Texas OT that we could have really used right about now..

[Hoose]

3 hours ago, ColtJax said:

We could have used the Davis 5th round pick and our 2nd and jumped Washington to grab the Texas OT that we could have really used right about now..

Yup. Could have done that too. My guess is Ballard rolled the dice on that option as well and thought the OT would be there. 

[NewColtsFan]

6 hours ago, ColtJax said:

We could have used the Davis 5th round pick and our 2nd and jumped Washington to grab the Texas OT that we could have really used right about now..

A 5 wouldn’t have been enough.   We would have needed a 4 to make that move.