ESPN: Colts with QB questions

[Malakai432]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

1789 is the impressive stat that stands out 

 

Yeah, I’m not sure how he’s going to do it but I’m going to stand by those numbers.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Malakai432 said:

 

Yeah, I’m not sure how he’s going to do it but I’m going to stand by those numbers.  

He could just do 2789  

[Malakai432]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

He could just do 2789  

 

In all honesty if you look at his numbers they aren’t bad considering he missed two games and has two games left.  I thought he would be around 3500 26 TDS/10 INTs which is where he could be if be if he played all 16 games.

 

I think it’s mainly his 4th quarter play that’s worrisome.  

[EastStreet]

39 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I do put weight on wins as you know but a lot of why I thought JB was above average is his TD to INT ratio too. Stats wise it was great through 7 games. Also a team usually plays good in most area's when they feel like they have a leader at QB they believe in. The turning point in the season was when JB got injured at Pitt (Hoyer came in) and Vinatieri missed the game winning FG. We win that game we go to 6-2. The cherry on top was the loss to Miami the next week, no JB and Hoyer played like Painter. Had we been 7-2, this season would've ended much differently. I am sure most feel the same way. The team would've been playing with motivation and confidence in these last few weeks, JMO's.

IDK... Many on the board questioned the way we were winning (during the 5-2 days), and said it wasn't sustainable. 

 

The way I see it, we had mild success and close wins early vs teams that weren't as good as we thought, teams got tape on JB, started daring him to throw, we became one dimensional on O, and our D all of sudden is on the field a lot more than the O is... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

15 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

IDK... Many on the board questioned the way we were winning (during the 5-2 days), and said it wasn't sustainable. 

 

The way I see it, we had mild success and close wins early vs teams that weren't as good as we thought, teams got tape on JB, started daring him to throw, we became one dimensional on O, and our D all of sudden is on the field a lot more than the O is... 

Here is a simple yes or no question, do you think we beat Miami if JB plays? That one game alone help change the tide in the season. 

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Here is a simple yes or no question, do you think we beat Miami if JB plays? That one game alone help change the tide in the season. 

I honestly don't know given Reich's game plan. He chose to throw it all over the place vs one of the worst run Ds in the league. I mean it's not like JB isn't capable of a bad game when asked to throw.

 

You could also blame AV for the loss (like many use in defense of JB). He missed an XP which forced us to go for a TD from the 16 instead of a FG that would have tied us up near the end of the game.

 

I'm not buying the whole "change the tide" thingy. All the 5-2 games were close. He had a pretty decent game vs Jax after the injury, then was pretty awful two games in a row vs bad passing Ds. If anything, it was the second game vs Houston that changed the tide. Zero TDs, less than 150 yards.

[HectorRoberts]

Oh my god! Another “Jacoby sucks thread” it’s getting quite repetitive around here... Without the whining, Jacoby sucks, Ballard sucks, and Andrew is a quitter talk there would be nothing on this forum.

[1959Colts]

1 minute ago, HectorRoberts said:

Oh my god! Another “Jacoby sucks thread” it’s getting quite repetitive around here... Without the whining, Jacoby sucks, Ballard sucks, and Andrew is a quitter talk there would be nothing on this forum.

...but what else is there to talk about around here these days?

the cheerleaders?

[EastStreet]

13 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

...but what else is there to talk about around here these days?

the cheerleaders?

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

9 hours ago, DougDew said:

Neither is all of the other stuff that doesn't get posted or bolded.

 

We can move on from JB.  I don't care.  I have no opinion I'm heavily invested in.

 

What's curious is not sure why JB has become the the whpping boy for everything that is wrong with the team.  Its like chickens pecking the one sick one because that's what every other chicken is doing.

 

Maybe blaming JB for everything.....even TB scoring 31 point despite Winston's 3 picks....is simply easier than to entertain the notion that Ballard sucks.  LOL. 

 

The constant pecking must be comforting.

ballard has put a team on the field filled with below average talent everywhere, i only see 3 players with above average talent, we have 2 more whose skills are declining due to age. most of our starters could not start for the texans or titans

[EastStreet]

37 minutes ago, HectorRoberts said:

Oh my god! Another “Jacoby sucks thread” it’s getting quite repetitive around here... Without the whining, Jacoby sucks, Ballard sucks, and Andrew is a quitter talk there would be nothing on this forum.

 

Perhaps if the product was better, we'd have more to talk about. Any suggestions on topics? What are the positives you'd like to discuss. 

 

[EastStreet]

Here's another little gem from PFF.

Quote

 

29. JACOBY BRISSETT, INDIANAPOLIS COLTS

Another quarterback whose stats look better than the on-field performance, Brissett ranks 15th in passer rating at 93.5 but just 29th in overall grade. He has the fourth-lowest percentage of positively-graded throws and his big-time throw percentage ranks just 36th. Those numbers show that the good passing numbers have come from other areas, and that’s backed up by 53.9% of his yards coming after the catch, good for the fourth-highest figure in the league. Brissett has settled in as a solid game manager, but he must improve upon his 70.7 passing grade when throwing 10+ yards down the field (33rd in league). 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

ballard has put a team on the field filled with below average talent everywhere, i only see 3 players with above average talent, we have 2 more whose skills are declining due to age. most of our starters could not start for the texans or titans

When I look at the 2019 season, I have seen only 7 players that have stood out for us = Nelson, Leonard, Mack, Castonzo, R. Kelly, Doyle, and Moore. Mack and Moore have missed games but when they have played have been good. The rest of the team has been MEH. I may be leaving someone out so forgive me but the guys I named have been great at times and impact players. 3 on the O.Line which is just hard to believe .  T.Y. has been disappointing and injured this season so I didn't leave him out.

[1959Colts]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When I look at the 2019 season, I have seen only 7 players that have stood out for us = Nelson, Leonard, Mack, Castonzo, R. Kelly, Doyle, and Moore. Mack and Moore have missed games but when they have played have been good. The rest of the team has been MEH. I may be leaving someone out so forgive me but the guys I named have been great at times and impact players. 3 on the O.Line which is just hard to believe .  T.Y. has been disappointing and injured this season so I didn't leave him out.

Good assessment. I would give Zach Pascal at least honorable mention.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, 1959Colts said:

Good assessment. I would give Zach Pascal at least honorable mention.

Yeah it seems JB had good chemistry with Pascal of all people. Pascal wasn't too bad and had a few good games.

[2006Coltsbestever]

32 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When I look at the 2019 season, I have seen only 7 players that have stood out for us = Nelson, Leonard, Mack, Castonzo, R. Kelly, Doyle, and Moore. Mack and Moore have missed games but when they have played have been good. The rest of the team has been MEH. I may be leaving someone out so forgive me but the guys I named have been great at times and impact players. 3 on the O.Line which is just hard to believe .  T.Y. has been disappointing and injured this season so I didn't leave him out.

I did forget Justin Houston who I think was good this year, I knew I was forgetting someone  

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just remember when things are looking bad, if you are feeling down, look at these numbers:

 

Since here in Indianapolis (1984-2019)

 

World Championships - 2006 (we got the 1 we needed be thankful)

 

AFC Championships - 2006, 2009 (2)

 

AFC Championship Game appearances - 1995, 2003, 2006, 2009, 2014 (5)

 

AFC Divisional Round appearances - 1987, 1995, 1999, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2013, 2014, 2018 (12)

 

-Take a deep breathe everyone and everything will be ok folks . Lets not act like a spoiled bunch as we have had Dickerson in 1987, Harbaugh in 1995, then Peyton from 1998-2010, and players like Marvin, Sanders, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Reggie, Luck from 2012-2018, and T.Y.. Be patient and enjoy life as we now even have Nelson and Leonard. 

 

+We never cheated either to get those accomplishments.

 

Those accomplishments and players are very nice 

[2006Coltsbestever]

42 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Just remember when things are looking bad, if you are feeling down, look at these numbers:

 

Since here in Indianapolis (1984-2019)

 

World Championships - 2006 (we got the 1 we needed be thankful)

 

AFC Championships - 2006, 2009 (2)

 

AFC Championship Game appearances - 1995, 2003, 2006, 2009, 2014 (5)

 

AFC Divisional Round appearances - 1987, 1995, 1999, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2013, 2014, 2018 (12)

 

-Take a deep breathe everyone and everything will be ok folks . Lets not act like a spoiled bunch as we have had Dickerson in 1987, Harbaugh in 1995, then Peyton from 1998-2010, and players like Marvin, Sanders, Saturday, Freeney, Mathis, Reggie, Luck from 2012-2018, and T.Y.. Be patient and enjoy life as we now even have Nelson and Leonard. 

 

+We never cheated either to get those accomplishments.

 

Those accomplishments and players are very nice 

Oh I forgot, we are so spoiled that we have had the greatest FG Kicker of all-time from 2006 to now in Adam Vinatieri and people have just bashed him in here. He is the reason why we beat the Ravens during the 2006 playoff run. 

[Nickster]

12 hours ago, EastStreet said:

IDK... Many on the board questioned the way we were winning (during the 5-2 days), and said it wasn't sustainable. 

 

The way I see it, we had mild success and close wins early vs teams that weren't as good as we thought, teams got tape on JB, started daring him to throw, we became one dimensional on O, and our D all of sudden is on the field a lot more than the O is... 

 

The Colts scored under 20 points in three of the wins before the "injury".  He was terrible from start to finish.

 

He had a couple of good games, but it you look closely, you'd see that the scheme allowed JB to make many 1st read throws during those games.  

 

Teams simply wisened up.

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

The Colts scored under 20 points in three of the wins before the "injury".  He was terrible from start to finish.

 

He had a couple of good games, but it you look closely, you'd see that the scheme allowed JB to make many 1st read throws during those games.  

 

Teams simply wisened up.

This is true.  Not deniable. 

 

In part, that's what the scheme is supposed to do.  Having your first read open is how a QB gets rid of the ball quickly.  Its what the NFL is moving towards.  It should not be a criticism.  It should be a commendation for the system working.  A 5 second pocket means the first read was not open (unless the QB is blind by not realizing the WR is open when he's looking right at him.)

 

The other issue is, have you seen the types of QBs and offenses they run in college these days?  Exactly the same thing, except when their first read isn't open, they take off and run, or extend the play hoping that a receiver comes open like a sandlot play.

 

Its a lot different kind of QB and scheme than we had with Luck and Manning.

 

[#12.]

Let's add it up.  Brissett looked better in the beginning of the season when there was less pressure, worse later on when fighting for a playoff spot.  Over two seasons, he's generally looked better in the first quarter of games, worse in the 4th with the games on the line.  

 

Every other issue aside, that's not what you want in a QB.  

[Nickster]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

This is true.  Not deniable. 

 

In part, that's what the scheme is supposed to do.  Having your first read open is how a QB gets rid of the ball quickly.  Its what the NFL is moving towards.  It should not be a criticism.  It should be a commendation for the system working.  A 5 second pocket means the first read was not open (unless the QB is blind by not realizing the WR is open when he's looking right at him.)

 

The other issue is, have you seen the types of QBs and offenses they run in college these days?  Exactly the same thing, except when their first read isn't open, they take off and run, or extend the play hoping that a receiver comes open like a sandlot play.

 

Its a lot different kind of QB and scheme than we had with Luck and Manning.

 

Yes Reich called a few really good games.  Broke down when people realized that Jacoby can't read down the field.   There was never any threat of him hurting the opposition down field.

 

But Jacoby can't run.  One of the slowest QBs in the league.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Yes Reich called a few really good games.  Broke down when people realized that Jacoby can't read down the field.   There was never any threat of him hurting the opposition down field.

 

But Jacoby can't run.  One of the slowest QBs in the league.

Oh I agree.  Jacoby lacks the long ball accuracy to keep the defense honest (same thing we had with Hasselbeck who was simply too old to throw).  Eventually the D jumps the routes, and the pass rush gets to the QB.

 

I was just pointing out that college QBs these days scheme their first read and throw it if its open, because that's what's being taught.  Not sure if their ability to sit in the pocket for 5 seconds and see through their progressions is going to be any better than JBs.

 

Whether or not they have long ball accuracy or the ability to extend plays is a different criticism.

 

Edit:  Of course, besides the long ball, another way to keep a D honest with the short passes is to have playmakers who can actually do something with the ball once they have it.  Breaking the first tackle and getting 15 extra yards would be nice.  Even TY can't really do that. Neither does Hines.

[Nickster]

18 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Oh I agree.  Jacoby lacks the long ball accuracy to keep the defense honest (same thing we had with Hasselbeck who was simply too old to throw).  Eventually the D jumps the routes, and the pass rush gets to the QB.

 

I was just pointing out that college QBs these days scheme their first read and throw it if its open, because that's what's being taught.  Not sure if their ability to sit in the pocket for 5 seconds and see through their progressions is going to be any better than JBs.

 

Whether or not they have long ball accuracy or the ability to extend plays is a different criticism.

 

Edit:  Of course, besides the long ball, another way to keep a D honest with the short passes is to have playmakers who can actually do something with the ball once they have it.  Breaking the first tackle and getting 15 extra yards would be nice.  Even TY can't really do that. Neither does Hines.

 

I haven't watched much of Jackson.  But I would suspect that the 2nd (or possibly 3rd and 4th) reads are to pull it down and run.  Are you saying there are other college QBs who rely on one read only?  I'd think it would be hard to be successful that way.

 

On your edit I disagree for the most part.  You are going to play shallow if there is no downfield threat and this causes YACs to be harder to come by.  When the guy does break a tackle, the safety is closer to clean it up with no downfield threat.

 

I am not talking about the long ball either, although I think it's clear JB sucks at that too,  I am talking about sticking the 15-25 yd out or dig.  This is what opens up things underneath and then deep.  The threat has to be there.  Jacoby seems incompetent even on the seem pass down the field which is one of the easier throws in the game.

 

The QB is the root of practically all the offensive woes IMO.

[gspdx]

20 hours ago, DougDew said:

Neither is all of the other stuff that doesn't get posted or bolded.

 

We can move on from JB.  I don't care.  I have no opinion I'm heavily invested in.

 

What's curious is not sure why JB has become the the whpping boy for everything that is wrong with the team.  Its like chickens pecking the one sick one because that's what every other chicken is doing.

 

Maybe blaming JB for everything.....even TB scoring 31 point despite Winston's 3 picks....is simply easier than to entertain the notion that Ballard sucks.  LOL. 

 

The constant pecking must be comforting.

 

So you say we can move on from JB and then can't help but add more to the topic.  No opinion you are heavily invested in and then need to give your opinion on how people are reacting the JB's performance.

 

You crack me up.

[#12.]

11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

When I look at the 2019 season, I have seen only 7 players that have stood out for us = Nelson, Leonard, Mack, Castonzo, R. Kelly, Doyle, and Moore. Mack and Moore have missed games but when they have played have been good. The rest of the team has been MEH. I may be leaving someone out so forgive me but the guys I named have been great at times and impact players. 3 on the O.Line which is just hard to believe .  T.Y. has been disappointing and injured this season so I didn't leave him out.

 

Houston.  You pretty much got what you ordered.  He would be fairly high up the list.

[DougDew]

29 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I haven't watched much of Jackson.  But I would suspect that the 2nd (or possibly 3rd and 4th) reads are to pull it down and run.  Are you saying there are other college QBs who rely on one read only?  I'd think it would be hard to be successful that way.

 

On your edit I disagree for the most part.  You are going to play shallow if there is no downfield threat and this causes YACs to be harder to come by.  When the guy does break a tackle, the safety is closer to clean it up with no downfield threat.

 

I am not talking about the long ball either, although I think it's clear JB sucks at that too,  I am talking about sticking the 15-25 yd out or dig.  This is what opens up things underneath and then deep.  The threat has to be there.  Jacoby seems incompetent even on the seem pass down the field which is one of the easier throws in the game.

 

The QB is the root of practically all the offensive woes IMO.

You're making several points that lead into a broader discussion of JB.

 

I'm talking concepts more than QBs.  Different OCs have different tendencies or things they value....want to run.

 

If offenses are moving towards three step drops and getting the ball out quicker, by the shear laws of physics, the QB will have to have his first read open by either a talented WR or by scheme.  No time to go through reads.  I don't see that as a criticism.  I see it as a successful strategy.

 

I don't think there are too many traditional pro style offenses in college, meaning, sitting in the pocket and going through reads.  I think both college and NFL are going more to the spread quick throw offense. 

 

If you have that offense, then the WRs are never going to be completely open for very long.  To get yardage, they will have to have some ability to do something with the ball after they get it.  And the QB will have to be accurate enough to put the ball on the correct hip, not just throw it in the area of a 15-25 yard dig and let a catch radius of Reggie Wayne bail him out.  TY fits into that older offense.  He's not really a YAC guy.

 

While all patterns need to be converted in the NFL, I don't see Reich's offense relying upon the dig patterns, outs, and intermediate timing patterns as much as we used to.  They take more time to develop.  Its a bit of a mix, because we now finally have the oline to do the type of stuff we used to do with Luck.  We may not have the QB to run the offense, especially the patterns more like we ran in the old offense, but we don't have the skill position players to make plays in the new offense.  We need more than a new QB to run Reich's offense correctly, IMO.

[Chrisaaron1023]

I haven't said a word about JB this whole time. But really what was the hype surrounding him? Even with the "plug and play" QB system of New England, Belichick even changed their playbook to better suit Jacoby when they played Houston and Buffalo. I just don't understand why anybody thought it was gonna be a good idea for him to follow the footsteps or Peyton and Andrew.

 

I mean he's the Colts QB so I'm gonna roll with him.. but really what was the thought process?

[chad72]

1 minute ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I haven't said a word about JB this whole time. But really what was the hype surrounding him? Even with the "plug and play" QB system of New England, Belichick even changed their playbook to better suit Jacoby when they played Houston and Buffalo. I just don't understand why anybody thought it was gonna be a good idea for him to follow the footsteps or Peyton and Andrew.

 

I mean he's the Colts QB so I'm gonna roll with him.. but really what was the thought process?

 

If you remember, a good DC like Rex Ryan, once he saw the Texans game, shut Brissett down to the tune of a shutout, if I remember right. The Texans game, Osweiler happened and the Texans kept fumbling the ball and turning it over on offense and special teams, a big no-no in Foxboro. 

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

I haven't said a word about JB this whole time. But really what was the hype surrounding him? Even with the "plug and play" QB system of New England, Belichick even changed their playbook to better suit Jacoby when they played Houston and Buffalo. I just don't understand why anybody thought it was gonna be a good idea for him to follow the footsteps or Peyton and Andrew.

 

I mean he's the Colts QB so I'm gonna roll with him.. but really what was the thought process?

I don't think it was the plan to roll with him.  I think it was forced on Reich by Luck's decision.

 

However, I think Ballard brought JB here to be a better fit for Reich's O as a backup to Luck.  If we still had chud, we might have had a different backup QB and starter now.

[Nickster]

36 minutes ago, DougDew said:

You're making several points that lead into a broader discussion of JB.

 

I'm talking concepts more than QBs.  Different OCs have different tendencies or things they value....want to run.

 

If offenses are moving towards three step drops and getting the ball out quicker, by the shear laws of physics, the QB will have to have his first read open by either a talented WR or by scheme.  No time to go through reads.  I don't see that as a criticism.  I see it as a successful strategy.

 

I don't think there are too many traditional pro style offenses in college, meaning, sitting in the pocket and going through reads.  I think both college and NFL are going more to the spread quick throw offense. 

 

If you have that offense, then the WRs are never going to be completely open for very long.  To get yardage, they will have to have some ability to do something with the ball after they get it.  And the QB will have to be accurate enough to put the ball on the correct hip, not just throw it in the area of a 15-25 yard dig and let a catch radius of Reggie Wayne bail him out.  TY fits into that older offense.  He's not really a YAC guy.

 

While all patterns need to be converted in the NFL, I don't see Reich's offense relying upon the dig patterns, outs, and intermediate timing patterns as much as we used to.  They take more time to develop.  Its a bit of a mix, because we now finally have the oline to do the type of stuff we used to do with Luck.  We may not have the QB to run the offense, especially the patterns more like we ran in the old offense, but we don't have the skill position players to make plays in the new offense.  We need more than a new QB to run Reich's offense correctly, IMO.

 

 

Hey man the quick stuff you reference is in principle a lot like the old fashioned West Coast Offense. 

There are reads and progressions, they are just quick.  It is extremely important to have a quick thinking/reacting/decisive QB in these types of offenses.  They are not just throwing to a predetermined, pre snap place.

 

A major difference is the RPO, but that is still quick and there are multiple reads and progressions and is only very effective if the QB can hurt a team with his feet.

 

NONE of which seems to be suited to ANYTHING I've seen JB do.

 

He's a big arm, slow QB who can shed tacklers ala Roethlisberger.  He doesnt' read or go through progressions well enough to run the long game and is not decisive enough to run the short game.  He just can't really play.  Hear me now and believe me later.

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

Hey man the quick stuff you reference is in principle a lot like the old fashioned West Coast Offense. 

There are reads and progressions, they are just quick.  It is extremely important to have a quick thinking/reacting/decisive QB in these types of offenses.  They are not just throwing to a predetermined, pre snap place.

 

A major difference is the RPO, but that is still quick and there are multiple reads and progressions and is only very effective if the QB can hurt a team with his feet.

 

NONE of which seems to be suited to ANYTHING I've seen JB do.

 

He's a big arm, slow QB who can shed tacklers ala Roethlisberger.  He doesnt' read or go through progressions well enough to run the long game and is not decisive enough to run the short game.  He just can't really play.  Hear me now and believe me later.

I understand. Yes. More WC....but that had more designed rollouts to where the criticism of that O was that it took the Qb out of the pocket and exposed them to injury.

 

I'm simply saying that when the offense takes three step drops rather than seven step drops, its more important for that first read to be open than otherwise.  Rub routes, etc. helps too.  A seven step drop has more time for the third read to get open.

 

So comparing what we have in JB with what we might get from college, most college Qbs, IMO, aren't going to be well trained in seeing their third read either because the offense they ran didn't emphasize it. Long ball accuracy is a different criticism, and I'm with you there. And standing up to a pass rush is important, so the bigger the QB the better.

 

The RPO is a joke anyway.  It even sucked with Luck.   Defenses don't bite on the play action enough to make that aspect of it useful. JMO.

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, Nickster said:

 

The Colts scored under 20 points in three of the wins before the "injury".  He was terrible from start to finish.

 

He had a couple of good games, but it you look closely, you'd see that the scheme allowed JB to make many 1st read throws during those games.  

 

Teams simply wisened up.

 

Agree. Once they got tape, it was pretty clear what teams did.

[hoosierhawk]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

You're making several points that lead into a broader discussion of JB.

 

I'm talking concepts more than QBs.  Different OCs have different tendencies or things they value....want to run.

 

If offenses are moving towards three step drops and getting the ball out quicker, by the shear laws of physics, the QB will have to have his first read open by either a talented WR or by scheme.  No time to go through reads.  I don't see that as a criticism.  I see it as a successful strategy.

 

I don't think there are too many traditional pro style offenses in college, meaning, sitting in the pocket and going through reads.  I think both college and NFL are going more to the spread quick throw offense. 

 

If you have that offense, then the WRs are never going to be completely open for very long.  To get yardage, they will have to have some ability to do something with the ball after they get it.  And the QB will have to be accurate enough to put the ball on the correct hip, not just throw it in the area of a 15-25 yard dig and let a catch radius of Reggie Wayne bail him out.  TY fits into that older offense.  He's not really a YAC guy.

 

While all patterns need to be converted in the NFL, I don't see Reich's offense relying upon the dig patterns, outs, and intermediate timing patterns as much as we used to.  They take more time to develop.  Its a bit of a mix, because we now finally have the oline to do the type of stuff we used to do with Luck.  We may not have the QB to run the offense, especially the patterns more like we ran in the old offense, but we don't have the skill position players to make plays in the new offense.  We need more than a new QB to run Reich's offense correctly, IMO.

Absolutely false on three step drop. A good QB makes his 1st read before the ball is snapped. He doesn't go to LOS and think my 1st read TY. It not like when the ball is snapped he then see TY is double covered so he better run. He sees that pre-snap and changes his first read. A good QB can then go thru at least 2-3 reads in the first 2-2.5 seconds. Then he starts to scramble to either run or preferable find a guy who breaks free. He doesn't have time to look at his wrist band to look at read 2 and then 3. Good QBs make quick decisions. That also is what separates good college QBs from mediocre QBs. And yes there are good young QBs in the college ranks. Going thru reads by a QB should not be mistaken for reading a book and turning pages. It has to be much faster than that.

 

[hoosierhawk]

4 hours ago, DougDew said:

I understand. Yes. More WC....but that had more designed rollouts to where the criticism of that O was that it took the Qb out of the pocket and exposed them to injury.

 

I'm simply saying that when the offense takes three step drops rather than seven step drops, its more important for that first read to be open than otherwise.  Rub routes, etc. helps too.  A seven step drop has more time for the third read to get open.

 

So comparing what we have in JB with what we might get from college, most college Qbs, IMO, aren't going to be well trained in seeing their third read either because the offense they ran didn't emphasize it. Long ball accuracy is a different criticism, and I'm with you there. And standing up to a pass rush is important, so the bigger the QB the better.

 

The RPO is a joke anyway.  It even sucked with Luck.   Defenses don't bite on the play action enough to make that aspect of it useful. JMO.

Saying first read , second read, or third read doesn't necessarily mean that is the order they come open. First read may never come open. Simply means that that is the progression the QB goes thru. May all come open at the same time.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

I don't think it was the plan to roll with him.  I think it was forced on Reich by Luck's decision.

 

However, I think Ballard brought JB here to be a better fit for Reich's O as a backup to Luck.  If we still had chud, we might have had a different backup QB and starter now.

Reich wasn’t the coach when ballard brought in Jacoby.

[coltsfeva]

7 hours ago, #12. said:

Let's add it up.  Brissett looked better in the beginning of the season when there was less pressure, worse later on when fighting for a playoff spot.  Over two seasons, he's generally looked better in the first quarter of games, worse in the 4th with the games on the line.  

 

Every other issue aside, that's not what you want in a QB.  

  Good post! JB seems to get affected by pressure, whether it be in a critical time in the game or of the season. 
   The thing that has me scratching my head is the insistence by Ballard and Reich that JB is their guy. I trust those two and respect their opinion. Hopefully, it’s just “coach speak”.
     At very least, we want to see competition at the QB position in the Spring.

[DougDew]

2 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Saying first read , second read, or third read doesn't necessarily mean that is the order they come open. First read may never come open. Simply means that that is the progression the QB goes thru. May all come open at the same time.

I understand, but a Qb can't see them all at the same time.  And the defender will close up that opening pretty quickly.

 

I'm trying to merely say that quick paced passing games that try to get the ball out of the Qbs hands are by their nature going to limit the amount of time a Qb has to sit there and look at different receivers.  Then it becomes a broken play/ sandlot play where some Qbs are better at converting than others

 

Its part of the strategy with rub routes.  That first read has to come open quickly and screening off the defender close to the LOS does that. Teams run more rub routes now than they did 10 to 15 years ago, IMO.

 

 

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, hoosierhawk said:

Absolutely false on three step drop. A good QB makes his 1st read before the ball is snapped. He doesn't go to LOS and think my 1st read TY. It not like when the ball is snapped he then see TY is double covered so he better run. He sees that pre-snap and changes his first read. A good QB can then go thru at least 2-3 reads in the first 2-2.5 seconds. Then he starts to scramble to either run or preferable find a guy who breaks free. He doesn't have time to look at his wrist band to look at read 2 and then 3. Good QBs make quick decisions. That also is what separates good college QBs from mediocre QBs. And yes there are good young QBs in the college ranks. Going thru reads by a QB should not be mistaken for reading a book and turning pages. It has to be much faster than that.

 

We may not be talking about the same thing.  I'm talking about his first look post snap.  His first choice.  Modern offense are doing more to make that first look open more quickly, rub routes, crossing routes, even bubble screens.   With three step drops, the pocket collapses faster than with seven step drops, so the patterns are shorter and, yes, the Qb has to understand what he's seeing faster.  But he's simply not going to have time to look at 3 or 4 different receivers on a three step drop because the DTs are 4 steps closer.  So they run or scramble to extend the play. Its also why pass rushing DTs are becoming more popular and EDGE rushers are not getting to the Qb in time.

 

Also, the WRs runs more horizontally across the field than vertically down the field.  Therefore, the WR has to have more lateral shiftiness to get open near the LOS rather than straight line speed to get down the field.   Think Edleman vs TY.  That's why our receivers are not a great fit for what we're trying to do either, IMO.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Reich wasn’t the coach when ballard brought in Jacoby.

OK.  Maybe Ballard thought he was going to try to hire McDaniels the next year.