Defensive Backfield Depth.....?

[Scott Pennock]

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/17/indianapolis-colts-red-flags-secondary-depth-cornerback-safety/

 

Some days I wonder who writes this drivel?

 

The same people just wrote how both Hooker (FS) and Moore II (Slot) were Elite at their positions.

 

Did we aquire enough talent it was asked this offseason? Hmmmm.....lets see:

 

Corner Room:

Still had: Wilson, Hairston

Re-signed Desir

Re-signed Milton

Signed Collins to Futures Contract - a former 2nd Round pick and super bowl starter (may of been defensive MVP if the Falcons didn't blow it)

Drafted Rock Ya-Sin

Drafted Marvell Tell III

 

Whomever wrote that article did not witness Wilson absolutely turn the corner (pun intended) and become the 2nd Round pick he was supposed to be.

 

They also view Desir as simply a journeyman, but he's been here 3 years and has finally tapped into the potential his small school draft profile said he had. And now he's here for 3 more years.

 

Moore II = Duh, they rated him as elite

 

Hairston lost his job to Moore, lost some of his mojo and appears to have regained it thru OTA's and Mini Camp. Otherwise he's been a solid starter thru his first two years.

 

Collins - has the draft pedigree, has proven it at the highest levels in this game. We know the ONE downfall. But talent wise he is there.

 

Rock Ya-Sin showed out in OTA's and Mini camp and will be a solid addition even if he doesn't start plus he plays special teams!

 

Tell has shown the coaching staff (by all indications of offseason reporting) that he is taking very well to the switch to CB from FS. Even if he isn't the greatest at the techniques, guess whst he does have: special teams experience AND can play either safety spot.

 

Milton is a gunner, that's it and that's all. 

 

Safety Room:

Still had: Hooker, Odum

Re-signed Geathers

Signed Kindred (former 4th rndr from TCU)

Re-instated Farley from IR 

Drafted Willis

 

With the exception of Willis, every safety listed above has started and played well. Yes even Odum who started off slow but ended really strong (much like Moore in his rookie season).

 

I still think Kindred is just as talented or maybe even better than both of Geathers and Farley so that will be an interesting battle.

 

Since Hooker is the only "real" household type name the national prognosticators fail to see the rest of the roster.

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, Scott Pennock said:

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/2019/06/17/indianapolis-colts-red-flags-secondary-depth-cornerback-safety/

 

Some days I wonder who writes this drivel?

 

I read that article earlier, he's actually referencing a Bleacher Report article that was written, & is basically disagreeing with it, but yeah, for the first time in a long time our depth is not an issue.

[WoolMagnet]

And i've been looking at the roster wanting to keep more than we will.  They're young, some unproven,yes, but i see better talent and depth at the back-end of this D than i can remember.  Some interesting speed, size, and traits.  And many of them ate flexible and versitile.  

  By mid-season, i expect this D to start getting very exciting to watch.  We are gonna be FAST, and with that i expect a bunch of turnovers.  Gonna be fun.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We might end up trading Hairston or Collins. They would have some trade value. 

[Yoshinator]

I expect Rock to start day 1 opposite Desir, with Moore in the slot. Rock looks that good. We have a complete secondary right now, and I believe someone will shine at CB, FS, and SS this year with everyone we have.

[MikeCurtis]

IF Houston can provide an increase in passrush...........

 

IF we see even a little improvement from our 2 DL rookies from last year,

(Which you would expect)

 

IF Ward can stay healthy

 

AND the DB team, makes even a small step forward.....

 

this could be a defense that jumps into the top 7 or 8.

 

THAT may be enough to take us deeper into the playoffs

[Scott Pennock]

1 hour ago, WoolMagnet said:

And i've been looking at the roster wanting to keep more than we will.  They're young, some unproven,yes, but i see better talent and depth at the back-end of this D than i can remember.  Some interesting speed, size, and traits.  And many of them ate flexible and versitile.  

  By mid-season, i expect this D to start getting very exciting to watch.  We are gonna be FAST, and with that i expect a bunch of turnovers.  Gonna be fun.

Here is your fast secondary:

 

Hooker - Unk. - I'd guess in the 4.45 range

Geathers. 4.55

Farley - 4.50

Kindred - 4.50

Willis - 4.46 (per Ballard)

Odum - 4.45

 

Desir - 4.52

Moore - 4.47

Wilson - 4.54

Hairston - 4.52

Collins - 4.48

Rock - 4.48 (per Ballard)

Milton - 4.40

Taylor - 4.39

Tell - 4.52

 

Versatility piece:

 

Wilson has played outside on the perimeter and in Geathers dime package spot inside.

 

Tell is trying to make a Tre Flowers switch from safety to corner, however, he still has a safety skill set and could be used there as well. Plus let's not forget the 80"+ wingspan on him!

 

We could afford to keep only 4 safeties if both Wilson and Tell are on the roster.

 

I know the FO speaks highly of Geathers but availability is still the best ability a player can provide. I do like Geathers too, but, if he gets dinged up again this TC or pre-season I see an injury settlement taking place and he'll depart.

[Scott Pennock]

23 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I expect Rock to start day 1 opposite Desir, with Moore in the slot. Rock looks that good. We have a complete secondary right now, and I believe someone will shine at CB, FS, and SS this year with everyone we have.

I still think Wilson holds on, for now, to the starting boundary corner.

 

Rock will play a lot though I would imagine and will certainly be used in man packages.

[Scott Pennock]

5 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

IF Houston can provide an increase in passrush...........

 

IF we see even a little improvement from our 2 DL rookies from last year,

(Which you would expect)

 

IF Ward can stay healthy

 

AND the DB team, makes even a small step forward.....

 

this could be a defense that jumps into the top 7 or 8.

 

THAT may be enough to take us deeper into the playoffs

Could you imagine, after ALL THESE years of wanting a big, strong, fast defense that is capable of winning games on their own that we finally got it. Based off of your name you've been waiting since the Baltimore days!??!

 

Houston doesn't have to have 20 sacks, he and Sheard just need to keep applying constant pressure on every snap.

 

Turay, Lewis, Ward and Muhammad should make a jump with experience, improved technique AND confidence.

 

Banogu should provide a spark similar to Turay and Lewis coming off the bench fresh.

 

The biggest key after the pass rush making our DB's look better (and vice versa) will be the underneath coverage provided by Leonard, Okereke, and Moore (if he makes the cut).

 

Hidden gem here is that both Leonard and Okereke run as fast as our normal "box" safety's for the most part BUT offer huge wingspans!

 

 

[Yoshinator]

7 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

I still think Wilson holds on, for now, to the starting boundary corner.

 

Rock will play a lot though I would imagine and will certainly be used in man packages.

Depends on how fast he learns zone. Seeing how fast he learned football (started in 11th grade). and became a solid corner in college, I don't think it'll take long. To me, Wilson is a decent to good corner and won't be very difficult for Rock to pass on the depth chart.

[Scott Pennock]

2 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Depends on how fast he learns zone. Seeing how fast he learned football (started in 11th grade). and became a solid corner in college, I don't think it'll take long. To me, Wilson is a decent to good corner and won't be very difficult for Rock to pass on the depth chart.

True statement. Remember that Wilson is still younger than Rock.

 

He turned the corner last year on how to prepare and play and this year came in in excellent shape physically.

 

It will be a great battle and will only make us better in the long run!

[MikeCurtis]

5 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Could you imagine, after ALL THESE years of wanting a big, strong, fast defense that is capable of winning games on their own that we finally got it. Based off of your name you've been waiting since the Baltimore days!??!

 

Houston doesn't have to have 20 sacks, he and Sheard just need to keep applying constant pressure on every snap.

 

Turay, Lewis, Ward and Muhammad should make a jump with experience, improved technique AND confidence.

 

Banogu should provide a spark similar to Turay and Lewis coming off the bench fresh.

 

The biggest key after the pass rush making our DB's look better (and vice versa) will be the underneath coverage provided by Leonard, Okereke, and Moore (if he makes the cut).

 

Hidden gem here is that both Leonard and Okereke run as fast as our normal "box" safety's for the most part BUT offer huge wingspans!

 

 

I have VERY high hopes for Ward...... that guy can move for a 300Lb guy

 

A pressure that results in an incomplete is a huge win. On 3rd down, its almost the same as a sack.  Real pressure gives the Colts an increased chance at turnovers

 

I HOPE that Okereke can be a player for the Colts.......... 

 

I'm a bit skeptical.... I hope that I am wrong

 

 

[Scott Pennock]

47 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

We might end up trading Hairston or Collins. They would have some trade value. 

Very true. I'd prefer just to cut Milton, keep 4 safety's and 7 corners (2 of which could play safety).

 

But that's just me being a greedy fan! Lol

[Scott Pennock]

1 minute ago, MikeCurtis said:

I have VERY high hopes for Ward...... that guy can move for a 300Lb guy

 

A pressure that results in an incomplete is a huge win. On 3rd down, its almost the same as a sack.  Real pressure gives the Colts an increased chance at turnovers

 

I HOPE that Okereke can be a player for the Colts.......... 

 

I'm a bit skeptical.... I hope that I am wrong

 

 

Only time will tell but Okereke's skill set seems taylor made for this defense.

 

Every pressure leading to a poor throw/decision is a win and will certainly lead to more sacks, fumbles and interceptions.

[MikeCurtis]

We are in for some HARD choices this year

 

We already staff heavily on the OL and DL

 

If we go with 6 WRs, we will have one less DB to keep

 

Some "Names" will be cut and/or playing elsewhere

 

A BIG departure from prior years, where our cuts couldnt make ANYONES team...... 

 

 

 

 

[MikeCurtis]

4 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Only time will tell but Okereke's skill set seems taylor made for this defense.

 

Every pressure leading to a poor throw/decision is a win and will certainly lead to more sacks, fumbles and interceptions.

Yep......  

 

Tailor Made........

 

Who is this Tayor fellow and what is he making?   JUST KIDDING 

 

Im starting to sound like NCF!!!!

[Scott Pennock]

4 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Yep......  

 

Tailor Made........

 

Who is this Tayor fellow and what is he making?   JUST KIDDING 

 

Im starting to sound like NCF!!!!

Haha didn't even catch my own error.....well played!

 

I think I even had a thought as I was typing the rest of it that it wasn't a golf expression and still failed to change it!

[akcolt]

34 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

Here is your fast secondary:

 

Hooker - Unk. - I'd guess in the 4.45 range

Geathers. 4.55

Farley - 4.50

Kindred - 4.50

Willis - 4.46 (per Ballard)

Odum - 4.45

 

Desir - 4.52

Moore - 4.47

Wilson - 4.54

Hairston - 4.52

Collins - 4.48

Rock - 4.48 (per Ballard)

Milton - 4.40

Taylor - 4.39

Tell - 4.52

 

Milton ran a 4.35 at an NFL Regional Combine then surprisingly didn’t stand on it and ran sub 4.4 at his pro day too. He’s pretty fast. 

[Scott Pennock]

9 minutes ago, akcolt said:

Milton ran a 4.35 at an NFL Regional Combine then surprisingly didn’t stand on it and ran sub 4.4 at his pro day too. He’s pretty fast. 

You are correct, I remember that. His draft profile also read a conversion to safety may be needed.

 

Still, with the rookies all having special teams experience and have shown the ability to actually cover people so his time is likely over as a Colt.

[Scott Pennock]

22 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

We are in for some HARD choices this year

 

We already staff heavily on the OL and DL

 

If we go with 6 WRs, we will have one less DB to keep

 

Some "Names" will be cut and/or playing elsewhere

 

A BIG departure from prior years, where our cuts couldnt make ANYONES team...... 

 

 

 

 

I'm really hoping we only keep 8 lineman with the likes of Haeg and Boehm being able to play multiple positions. Clark is a swing tackle as is Barton and Garcia.

 

 

[EastStreet]

We've got a solid group of DBs this year. Thinking we keep at minimum 8 DBs, maybe even 9 to 10. We'll be cutting some good players (from many positions) to get down to 53. I think I read that 70ish % of the time we had 3 CBs on the field, and 20ish % (might have been a little lower) we had 3 Ss. 

 

My prediction for the rooks

RYS is starting by mid season

Willis doesn't make the 53

Tell makes the PC

 

Locks (7)

S - Hooker, Geathers

CB - Desir, Moore, RYS, Harriston, Wilson

 

Decent chance

S - Kindred, Odum, and Farley if healthy

CB - Collins, Tell

 

Longshot

S - Willis, Milligan, Johnson

CB - Milton, Taylor

[wig]

3 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I expect Rock to start day 1 opposite Desir, with Moore in the slot. Rock looks that good. 

 

Where is this film at?  I'd like to watch it. 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, wig said:

 

Where is this film at?  I'd like to watch it. 

Mostly stuff from his final year of college at Temple, his Senior Bowl, and camp so far where he is consistently getting INT's. He is learning the zone scheme quickly and he said the game is slowing down for him already.

[MikeCurtis]

I personally don't think you want Rock starting game one.

 

I do believe he will be the a starter for us, but the CB spot at Temple for one year, and a tiny college before that, leaves me to believe that he will need some time to develop in the pro game

 

I like  the potential and his work ethic.........  but, I think its too much to expect him to supplant one of our starters, who are decent, game one

[lollygagger8]

17 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

 

Whomever wrote that article did not witness Wilson absolutely turn the corner (pun intended) and become the 2nd Round pick he was supposed to be.

 

I don't agree with this article either, but I still feel like Wilson's terribly inconsistent and I anxiously await him to prove me wrong.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

12 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Mostly stuff from his final year of college at Temple, his Senior Bowl, and camp so far where he is consistently getting INT's. He is learning the zone scheme quickly and he said the game is slowing down for him already.

 

As good as he's looked, he has yet to go up against QB1.

[NewColtsFan]

15 hours ago, Scott Pennock said:

I'm really hoping we only keep 8 lineman with the likes of Haeg and Boehm being able to play multiple positions. Clark is a swing tackle as is Barton and Garcia.

 

 

 

Odds are it’ll be 8 OL on the game day 47.    But 10 OL on the full 53.

 

Same with DL.   10, then 8....

 

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

22 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

I expect Rock to start day 1 opposite Desir, with Moore in the slot. Rock looks that good. We have a complete secondary right now, and I believe someone will shine at CB, FS, and SS this year with everyone we have.

Wow slow your roll dude. I love Rock, wanted to draft him, but were have you seen him in the he Looks that good statement? I am not ready to just say he is a starting CB without at least seeing him in some pre season games. The NFL does have a learning curve.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

I also don't agree with the article but there is some truths to it. Geathers and Hooker, are injury prone, Farley is coming off injury. If everyone is healthy great but its yet to be seen. I am much more comfortable with the CB population than the safety population. As far as Wilson, I personal like how he came along last year. Love his size, he plays well in games, he needs to be better ALL THE TIME in practice, if he wants to play!!

[IndyScribe]

This backfield is pretty deep. Maybe I'm more optimistic than most, but I like where it's at. Hooker should be fully healthy and I think he finally has his breakout season. I think Rock can become a good CB. Moore and Desir are obviously good. Wilson is an enigma, but I wouldn't be surprised if he becomes better and locks down that CB2 spot. Hairston and Collins are on this squad as well. If Geathers is injured, Colts still have Willis and Farley. 

[Scott Pennock]

It would not surprise me at all if both Geathers and Farley were traded/released. 

 

If they feel Odum and Kindred/Willis can provide the same production without the injuries or salary (and be a part of the long term core), they may try to trade them to a good home ala Simon and Hankins.

[EastStreet]

29 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

It would not surprise me at all if both Geathers and Farley were traded/released. 

 

If they feel Odum and Kindred/Willis can provide the same production without the injuries or salary (and be a part of the long term core), they may try to trade them to a good home ala Simon and Hankins.

Kindred has all kinds of injury flags, and Willis will be lucky to make the 53 IMO. 

Suggesting Geathers would be traded or released is like the post the other day talking about Funch being released. Pretty sure Geathers was the first FA re-up, and it was only a one year deal. He'll be here. We're not in a position where we need to save.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

37 minutes ago, Scott Pennock said:

It would not surprise me at all if both Geathers and Farley were traded/released. 

 

If they feel Odum and Kindred/Willis can provide the same production without the injuries or salary (and be a part of the long term core), they may try to trade them to a good home ala Simon and Hankins.

Geathers and Farley are not making much. If they are released it won’t have anything to do with what they are making.

[jskinnz]

7 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Kindred has all kinds of injury flags, and Willis will be lucky to make the 53 IMO. 

Suggesting Geathers would be traded or released is like the post the other day talking about Funch being released. Pretty sure Geathers was the first FA re-up, and it was only a one year deal. He'll be here. We're not in a position where we need to save.

 

Willis - the 4th round pick they traded up to get will be lucky to make the 53?  Man that is highly questionable. I’d say he is much closer to a lock to make the roster than be cut prior to opening day. 

[krunk]

I really hope they find some kind of way to keep Collins.

 

Desir

Wilson

Moore

Hairston

Collins

Yasin

 

This is the group of guys I hope we end up keeping.  Very strong!

[Smonroe]

1 hour ago, krunk said:

I really hope they find some kind of way to keep Collins.

 

Desir

Wilson

Moore

Hairston

Collins

Yasin

 

This is the group of guys I hope we end up keeping.  Very strong!

 

The #6 will probably come down to who is the best gunner/ST player.  Between Collins, Tell, and Milton, it would be Milton. 

 

They say Hairston was balling during the OTA's.  Before that, I thought he'd be a cut.  Maybe Tell and Collins go to the PS?  Time will tell.

[krunk]

19 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

The #6 will probably come down to who is the best gunner/ST player.  Between Collins, Tell, and Milton, it would be Milton. 

 

They say Hairston was balling during the OTA's.  Before that, I thought he'd be a cut.  Maybe Tell and Collins go to the PS?  Time will tell.

Collins is a far superior corner than Milton.  I'd keep him over Milton in a heart beat.

Even if Milton were better at special teams I'd go with Collins.

[Smonroe]

3 minutes ago, krunk said:

Collins is a far superior corner than Milton.  I'd keep him over Milton in a heart beat.

Even if Milton were better at special teams I'd go with Collins.

 

Neither has played corner much, but even if that's true, the #6 would be mainly a ST player.  I'm not saying Collins couldn't play STs.  I'm just saying that's probably going to be the decision maker if they keep 6.

 

 

[EastStreet]

3 hours ago, jskinnz said:

 

Willis - the 4th round pick they traded up to get will be lucky to make the 53?  Man that is highly questionable. I’d say he is much closer to a lock to make the roster than be cut prior to opening day. 

 

It's just math. Let's say we keep 10 DBs like we did to start last year, and it's split 5 CBs and 5 Ss. On the depth chart, we always show 3 FSs and 2 SSs. Willis is a strong safety, and probably more accurately a box safety in the NFL. So He's competing for one of two SS spots. If you think he's going to beat out Kindred and Farley, then OK, but it's anything from a lock. I get we traded up for him, but he's not a great athlete and rather limited. And keep in mind that MSU was 64th vs the pass, and #1 vs the run. And we play a ton of good QBs this year. My bet is the practice squad. 

 

Saftey

Likely locks (2) - FS Hooker 87%, SS Geathers 68%

 

Competing

3. FS Odum 19% made great use of snaps when Hooker was out.

4. SS Kindred 42% (Browns) - good depth if injuries are behind him. Signed in April

5. SS Farley 14% - Good when healthy - Colts tendered him at second round level in March

6. SS Willis - rook

7/8. Milligan / Johnson

 

 

For kicks, here's my thoughts on CB too since Tell could impact both CB and S....

Also to note, as the year went along, we used a lot more 3 CB lines ups (65%ish of the time) vs 3 S lineups (20%ish of the time). Another reason we might keep 6 CBs and only 4 Ss. 

 

Cornerback

Likely locks (4) - Desir 86%, Moore 87%, Wilson 42%, RYS

 

Competing for that 5th. or 5th and 6th spot(s) and ranked

5. Collins - if his PED days are behind him, there's a lot of talent there

6. Harriston 39%

7. Tell (he's a hybrid S/CB and may be a reason they keep 6 CBs and only 4 Ss

8. Milton 5%

9. Taylor

[Scott Pennock]

14 hours ago, Irish YJ said:

Kindred has all kinds of injury flags, and Willis will be lucky to make the 53 IMO. 

Suggesting Geathers would be traded or released is like the post the other day talking about Funch being released. Pretty sure Geathers was the first FA re-up, and it was only a one year deal. He'll be here. We're not in a position where we need to save.

The only injury I recall of Kindreds was his broken collarbone that he played his entire senior year at TCU with.....? In the pro's not so much.

 

Not to be argumentative, however, Geathers was signed the day before Houston as the next to last free agent we signed.

 

For the record though, Kindred was signed off of waivers about 13 days after Geathers and Houston were signed.

 

Still getting to the point where availability starts to count when other talented options are available.

 

I like Geathers, don't get me wrong, jist think he's on a short leash.