Freeney

HungarianColtsFan · March 14, 2012

pretty sure they said he wouldn't be traded. Didn't say anything about not being released. you have a quote?

http://www.stampedeblue.com/2012/3/14/2871879/dwight-freeney-might-not-get-traded-or-released-colts-free-agency-nfl#storyjump

However, today we get two reports, one from NFL.com's Jason La Canfora and the other from ESPN's John Clayton, informing us that the Colts might not trade Freeney. They might not cut him either. He might actually remain a Colt in 2012.

"John Clayton simply stated, via ESPN's Paul Kuharsky, that he doesn't see Colts trading or cutting Freeney. With all the low cost players the Colts have either brought in or retained, they can handle Freeney's $19 mill cap number this season."

Deano1818 · March 14, 2012

This is all code for.......... We couldnt find someone to trade with us.....

HungarianColtsFan · March 14, 2012

This is all code for.......... We couldnt find someone to trade with us.....

If we couldn't trade him, he still could be cut.

Balzer40 · March 14, 2012

http://www.stampedeb...y-nfl#storyjump
However, today we get two reports, one from NFL.com's Jason La Canfora and the other from ESPN's John Clayton, informing us that the Colts might not trade Freeney. They might not cut him either. He might actually remain a Colt in 2012.
"John Clayton simply stated, via ESPN's Paul Kuharsky, that he doesn't see Colts trading or cutting Freeney. With all the low cost players the Colts have either brought in or retained, they can handle Freeney's $19 mill cap number this season."

I don't think Clayton has paid much attention to the Colts roster. First of all, who are all these low cost players the Colts have brought in? Secondly, I just don't see anyway the Colts can keep 19 million on the books for Freeney and still fill out a roster. Don't seem possible unless everybody here has just flat missed on our cap numbers and they are in way better shape than we all thought. This just don't make any sense what so ever.

BTW, I know these are not your words, you are just stating Clayton's words, but I think he is dead wrong.

Captain Americolt · March 14, 2012

I still see Freeney being traded or cut. Its not what I want, but it what my gut is telling me. My gut says he wont be a colt in 2012

oldunclemark · March 15, 2012

According to John Clayton and La Canfora Freeney won't be traded nor released. He is going to stay a Colt for his final year.

I dont understand why he wont re-do his deal.....and get more years???

Him and Mathis can go out together

CashMoney · March 15, 2012

I dont understand why he wont re-do his deal.....and get more years???
Him and Mathis can go out together

Mathis is thinking the same thing..

ROBERT MATHIS ‏ @RobertMathis98

C.Redding is a DE in Pagano's defense & Freeney is a OLB in same scheme so its 2 totally diff positions & theyll be on the field @ same time

Deano1818 · March 15, 2012

There are plenty of reasons for him to want to be cut.

At this point he has his signing bonus already.

If he is cut he can choose the team HE wants to go to, AND, he could probably bag another signing bonus to boot

I expect the colts to cut him

oldunclemark · March 15, 2012

Mathis is thinking the same thing..
ROBERT MATHIS ‏ @RobertMathis98
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C.Redding is a DE in Pagano's defense & Freeney is a OLB in same scheme so its 2 totally diff positions & theyll be on the field @ same time

No. 98 needs to call Dwight...

dgambill · March 15, 2012

You lost me here... Freeney is not a DT. He ran a sub 4.5 in the combine, and likely can still run a sub 4.6. He had a 37" leap. His measurables were off the charts.
Freeney is in the mold of a Demarcus Ware. The key different is that he is 3 inches shorter.
As far as whether he can stop the run... he's done it, it's simply never been his primary objective. He's been a pass rusher first and foremost.
I would like to think he can fit this scheme. He'd be pass rushing mostly, and would be called on to do other things from time to time. In any case, Freeney is every bit the athlete the Mathis is, and then some.
FYI - Only 40 time I can find for Mathis is a 4.67 (http://www.nfldrafts...2003&genpos=OLB)
So no, Mathis is not faster than Freeney.

Correct...Freeney is NOT a DT. He also is NOT and shows NO ABILITY to be an OLB. His straight ahead speed is ok...thats what a 40 is...and please that was like 10 years ago...no way he is still that fast. But that isn't the point..the point is do you think he can cover a back or TE? The answer is NO. He is also too small to play DT. He is used to being an edge rusher...that is not what we need. We need someone to eat up blockers in the middle....do you think Freeney wants to play the rest of his career taking on double teams in the middle while basically getting MAYBE the opportunity for 2 to 3 sacks a year? I don't think so. The Colts may not be able to trade him but he really doesn't fit their new scheme(if it is a traditional 3-4). Anyways he will be gone next year. The cap will go up signifiacantly and it would be in his best interest not to be here this year. He could get more sacks on a team that plays a 4-3 and earn 1 more short contract next year than staying here and looking washed up. I think he will be cut if we can't trade him. Remember if he is gone that is 14 million we save...even if we don't spend that then we get to ROLL OVER 14 million for next year. THAT IS BIG. I think there has been little interest because teams like Buffalo and Tennessee are caught up with Mario Williams and Peyton Manning. Both teams were reported "interested" so if they strike out they are very possible suiters for Dwight. Once FA dries up people will give him a look...and someone may even trade for him if we kept him during the season if they are a playoff team and they have a pass rusher go down. There are teams like Atlanta, Cincy, Buffalo, Denver, Tennessee all who could be interested if they don't land their guys. We aren't going to just say we are going to cut him...we are going to make it at least look like we will keep him to keep the price up. Don't know what we could get but a late 2nd or 3rd round pick isn't out of the question.

Colt-in-Jax · March 15, 2012

If Freeney REALLY wants to move to a 4-3 team he'd better restructure or the Colts will just keep him. If he goes to management and says, "look, I'll restructure if you'll guarantee me that I will be traded to a 4-3 team" I'm sure the deal will be done on draft day. He gets a new team and new deal, we get a #2 or #3 pick.

dgambill · March 15, 2012

Pass rushers are EXTREMELY hard to find in the nfl. I FULLY believe we will do everything possible not to cut him and find a trading partner. However to me 14 million saved to our cap this year or next is worth more than what he would be able to offer our new scheme as a rotation guy. That money can be more wisely used on other needs or rolled over to use next year....heck could have brought Peyton back for that lol....ok I was just joking.

bellboys · March 15, 2012

correct ... Freeney's agent passed away last year.. I think it was cancer... CAA has players agents .. including Condon... this could be good news for us.. (hopefully his agent is NOT Thomas Condon ) he may want to reconstruct his contract to a less cap hit and it extend it a few years.. Pagano wants to keep him.. he said he wants to stay?? guess his actions will determine his true intentions..

This could be bad.Think I seen somewhere that his new agent is Condon

GoColts8818 · March 15, 2012

No. 98 needs to call Dwight...

and tell him what? No player is going to tell another player yo take less money right after they just got a new contract themselves. I think it's become clear the Colts want Freeney back next year. There is a 19 million dollar issue that needs to be adressed though.

mvbighead · March 15, 2012

Correct...Freeney is NOT a DT. He also is NOT and shows NO ABILITY to be an OLB. His straight ahead speed is ok...thats what a 40 is...and please that was like 10 years ago...no way he is still that fast. But that isn't the point..the point is do you think he can cover a back or TE? The answer is NO. He is also too small to play DT. He is used to being an edge rusher...that is not what we need. We need someone to eat up blockers in the middle....do you think Freeney wants to play the rest of his career taking on double teams in the middle while basically getting MAYBE the opportunity for 2 to 3 sacks a year? I don't think so. The Colts may not be able to trade him but he really doesn't fit their new scheme(if it is a traditional 3-4). Anyways he will be gone next year. The cap will go up signifiacantly and it would be in his best interest not to be here this year. He could get more sacks on a team that plays a 4-3 and earn 1 more short contract next year than staying here and looking washed up. I think he will be cut if we can't trade him. Remember if he is gone that is 14 million we save...even if we don't spend that then we get to ROLL OVER 14 million for next year. THAT IS BIG. I think there has been little interest because teams like Buffalo and Tennessee are caught up with Mario Williams and Peyton Manning. Both teams were reported "interested" so if they strike out they are very possible suiters for Dwight. Once FA dries up people will give him a look...and someone may even trade for him if we kept him during the season if they are a playoff team and they have a pass rusher go down. There are teams like Atlanta, Cincy, Buffalo, Denver, Tennessee all who could be interested if they don't land their guys. We aren't going to just say we are going to cut him...we are going to make it at least look like we will keep him to keep the price up. Don't know what we could get but a late 2nd or 3rd round pick isn't out of the question.

Why in the sam hill do you say - "He is also too small to play DT."

The guy has not been a DT in his life. No kidding he is too small to play DT. That ain't his position.

As far as his numbers being from ten years ago, they sure are chief. Ever hear of a guy by the name of Ronde Barber? Guys been in the league for 15 years. He's been getting it done in all of them

I had already acknowledged that Freeney's speed may have dropped some, IE the whole 4.5 to 4.6 bit. But if you care to look it up, 4.6 is still fast. In any case, the point I am making is that if Freeney loses some of his speed... he was a world beater before, and if he loses speed he'll still be among some of the quicker 3-4 OLBs out there.

The biggest issue now is his contract. As for rolling over 14 mill to next season, this ain't AT&T, and that amount ain't rolling over to next year. The question is whether Irsay wants to spend it, and whether Freeney wants to play here.

Also, as far as Freeney is concerned, he could be more comfortable in a 4-3, and if he forces his way out by insisting on playing for a 4-3 team, he can very much find himself a new contract with some additional guaranteed money.

As far as getting something for him, a 2nd or 3rd round pick ain't going to happen. If the guy is carrying a ~15 million dollar salary, there isn't one team that would fork over a 3rd round pick to pick up that contract on a 30+ year old player. If his salary was a lower number, there would be a lot more suitors.

Also, Freeney is every bit the athlete that Ware is. http://www.menshealth.com/celebrity-fitness/dwight-freeney-workout The man is completely insane when it comes to his conditioning. To even consider him less of an athlete than Mathis is mind numbing. There is a reason Dwight signed a 6yr, 72 million dollar deal, and Mathis continues to average about 8 a season. Mathis is a compliment to Freeney. Another article reinforcing the ability of Freeney: http://fantasyfootballmetrics.com/Player_News/2012/fantasy_season/Season_2012_DEpreviewforCFM_02162012_1.htm

In any case, I am done. You cannot tell me that you actively follow the Colts when you try to tell me that Mathis is a better athlete than Freeney. He's an athlete no doubt, but Freeney has been among the elite. Mathis is 31, Freeney is <GASP> 32. Oh dear, will Mathis be all washed up next year?

Anyhoo, I am trying to figure out where you are getting your facts. Everything I've ever read on Freeney suggests he's a monster. He could dominate the pass rush perspective from the 3-4 OLB position just as Ware does. He won't be the best at covering TEs, but the reality is, safeties tend to get that job in today's NFL.

The only question is between:

1) Irsay and the money aspect.

2) Freeney and the desire to be an OLB in the 3-4. If he only wants to be on the field in 4-3 sets (as we will be running a hybrid), his value will be diminished. We need him to do both.

All I can say is, if you put Redding, a run stuffing NT, and another good sized body opposite Redding, and we'll have a pretty stout front three, which is something Freeney has not been complimented by in recent years. We've had Mathis and Freeney, that is it. If we were to have a solid front three, plus Mathis and Freeney... ooooh, the possibilities.

BProland85 · March 15, 2012

Is there still a chance that Freeney could extend his deal to make his cap hit lower in order to find more suitors to trade him? I know he hired the CAA agency to represent him, so is this still possible? We could then probably land an early 2nd round pick if his deal was reworked and extended a few years.

BProland85 · March 15, 2012

Pass rushers are EXTREMELY hard to find in the nfl. I FULLY believe we will do everything possible not to cut him and find a trading partner. However to me 14 million saved to our cap this year or next is worth more than what he would be able to offer our new scheme as a rotation guy. That money can be more wisely used on other needs or rolled over to use next year....heck could have brought Peyton back for that lol....ok I was just joking.

I agree it would completely SUCK to just outright cut a guy of Freeney's caliber. Thats why I hope an extended deal that drastically lowers his cap hit takes place so we can get much more in a trade for him.

mvbighead · March 15, 2012

Is there still a chance that Freeney could extend his deal to make his cap hit lower in order to find more suitors to trade him? I know he hired the CAA agency to represent him, so is this still possible? We could then probably land an early 2nd round pick if his deal was reworked and extended a few years.

We won't extend the deal to trade him. If we extend the deal, it's to keep him.

In any case, the most likely scenario of an extension for another team would be that of Freeney being permitted to seek a trade, finding a suitor who he negotiates with, and then getting the Colts to agree to the trade terms with that team.

Personally, it'd be great if they could get him a similar contract to Mathis. The problem is, if he plays a year on the 3-4 and wants out after 1 season, depending on the deal, he may be stuck.

Hopefully they can figure something out to keep him and give him an opt out clause on an extension.

BProland85 · March 15, 2012

We won't extend the deal to trade him. If we extend the deal, it's to keep him.
In any case, the most likely scenario of an extension for another team would be that of Freeney being permitted to seek a trade, finding a suitor who he negotiates with, and then getting the Colts to agree to the trade terms with that team.
Personally, it'd be great if they could get him a similar contract to Mathis. The problem is, if he plays a year on the 3-4 and wants out after 1 season, depending on the deal, he may be stuck.
Hopefully they can figure something out to keep him and give him an opt out clause on an extension.

That'd be too much money invested in the OLB position in the 3-4.

FireJimCaldwell · March 15, 2012

The Colts will not extend him to trade him. That is not how that works. That create a larger cap hit when he is traded.

If he is to be traded, the trading team will a ) fit his 14 million base salary under their current cap and attempt to extend his contract or b ) the Colts give him/his agent permission to workout a deal with a new team to help facilitate the trade.

It makes little sense to keep him on the roster at a 19 million dollar cap hit when there are so many holes to fill.

mvbighead · March 15, 2012

That'd be too much money invested in the OLB position in the 3-4.

You're serious? http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3170/demarcus-ware

7 years, 80 million... ONE PLAYER.

4 years, 72 million... TWO PLAYERS.

Might be shorter on years, but it is far better for the team two have two threats.

Furthermore, Anthony Spencer has been tagged, which amounts to 9 million. So roughly 20 million (average) in one season for the Cowboys' two OLBs. Our guys will average about 18. Assuming the Cowboys get a longer term deal done with Spencer at about 60 over 7, that's exactly 20 million on average.

I'd have no problems with them spending the money on both Freeney and Mathis. Especially if Freeney is on board.

fvantagio · March 15, 2012

Why cant we keep both Mathis and Freeney? Everyone seems to want to trade Freeney. Realistically (unless a GM makes a bonehead move) we can get a 4th for him. I want Freeney's 100 sacks over a 4th round rookie.

Am I the only one who thinks the move from DE to OLB is a relatively easy switch? If players like Verhnan Gholston can do it, then im sure Freeney can. Funny how people think Hughes will all of a sudden be a stud cause now he can stand up. But when it comes to Freeney you act like he simply cant fathom that concept? Why do I feel like im crazy for trusting the HOF guy over the guy who so far has been a bust?

Sure there will be a learning curve but isnt that what training camps for? Not wanting him in a 3-4 because he cant cover is kinda like missing out on a PF because he cant shoot 3's. Who cares? Hes gunna be rushing 99/100.

atapcl · March 15, 2012

You lost me here... Freeney is not a DT. He ran a sub 4.5 in the combine, and likely can still run a sub 4.6. He had a 37" leap. His measurables were off the charts.
Freeney is in the mold of a Demarcus Ware. The key different is that he is 3 inches shorter.
As far as whether he can stop the run... he's done it, it's simply never been his primary objective. He's been a pass rusher first and foremost.
I would like to think he can fit this scheme. He'd be pass rushing mostly, and would be called on to do other things from time to time. In any case, Freeney is every bit the athlete the Mathis is, and then some.
FYI - Only 40 time I can find for Mathis is a 4.67 (http://www.nfldrafts...2003&genpos=OLB)
So no, Mathis is not faster than Freeney.

4.67 was an estimate for Mathis. I believe he ran a 4.5 at his pro day but I cant find the link. Freeney was said to run 4.4s at the Combine and rumored to have had a fastest time of 4.3 in workouts.

BProland85 · March 15, 2012

Now that Mario Williams has signed with the Bills, I hope this means calls will start coming in for the rights to trade for Freeney. He would have to have discussions with that team though that he plans on extending his deal so they would feel more comfortable. I hope a high 2nd or late 1st is still possible as long as he's willing to extend once he's traded.

mvbighead · March 15, 2012

Now that Mario Williams has signed with the Bills, I hope this means calls will start coming in for the rights to trade for Freeney. He would have to have discussions with that team though that he plans on extending his deal so they would feel more comfortable. I hope a high 2nd or late 1st is still possible as long as he's willing to extend once he's traded.

I'm thinking either a 1st or 2nd is out of the realm of reality with a player his age. That isn't to say that he's not good, just simply that high picks are valued extremely high, and picking up a 30 something player on the downside of his career isn't usually done with higher picks.

Personally, with as many holes as this team has to fill, I wouldn't at all mind seeing a couple of lower round picks. A 4 and 5, maybe a 5 and 6. Yeah, usually the higher picks give you better players, but at this point, we need a lot of players. Our current group has been drafted for a different scheme, so they need all the competition in camp they can get.

But, I completely agree that Mario's signing should at least get some front offices to start kicking around the idea of bringing in Freeney. I was talking with a co-worker who is a Bears fan and I suggested the possibility of a Peppers/Freeney combo. He was still holding out hope they could lure in Mario. At this point, if I were a Bears fan, I'd be all over that idea.

dgambill · March 15, 2012

Why in the sam hill do you say - "He is also too small to play DT."
The guy has not been a DT in his life. No kidding he is too small to play DT. That ain't his position.
As far as his numbers being from ten years ago, they sure are chief. Ever hear of a guy by the name of Ronde Barber? Guys been in the league for 15 years. He's been getting it done in all of them
I had already acknowledged that Freeney's speed may have dropped some, IE the whole 4.5 to 4.6 bit. But if you care to look it up, 4.6 is still fast. In any case, the point I am making is that if Freeney loses some of his speed... he was a world beater before, and if he loses speed he'll still be among some of the quicker 3-4 OLBs out there.
The biggest issue now is his contract. As for rolling over 14 mill to next season, this ain't AT&T, and that amount ain't rolling over to next year. The question is whether Irsay wants to spend it, and whether Freeney wants to play here.
Also, as far as Freeney is concerned, he could be more comfortable in a 4-3, and if he forces his way out by insisting on playing for a 4-3 team, he can very much find himself a new contract with some additional guaranteed money.
As far as getting something for him, a 2nd or 3rd round pick ain't going to happen. If the guy is carrying a ~15 million dollar salary, there isn't one team that would fork over a 3rd round pick to pick up that contract on a 30+ year old player. If his salary was a lower number, there would be a lot more suitors.
Also, Freeney is every bit the athlete that Ware is. http://www.menshealt...freeney-workout The man is completely insane when it comes to his conditioning. To even consider him less of an athlete than Mathis is mind numbing. There is a reason Dwight signed a 6yr, 72 million dollar deal, and Mathis continues to average about 8 a season. Mathis is a compliment to Freeney. Another article reinforcing the ability of Freeney: http://fantasyfootba..._02162012_1.htm
In any case, I am done. You cannot tell me that you actively follow the Colts when you try to tell me that Mathis is a better athlete than Freeney. He's an athlete no doubt, but Freeney has been among the elite. Mathis is 31, Freeney is <GASP> 32. Oh dear, will Mathis be all washed up next year?
Anyhoo, I am trying to figure out where you are getting your facts. Everything I've ever read on Freeney suggests he's a monster. He could dominate the pass rush perspective from the 3-4 OLB position just as Ware does. He won't be the best at covering TEs, but the reality is, safeties tend to get that job in today's NFL.
The only question is between:
1) Irsay and the money aspect.
2) Freeney and the desire to be an OLB in the 3-4. If he only wants to be on the field in 4-3 sets (as we will be running a hybrid), his value will be diminished. We need him to do both.
All I can say is, if you put Redding, a run stuffing NT, and another good sized body opposite Redding, and we'll have a pretty stout front three, which is something Freeney has not been complimented by in recent years. We've had Mathis and Freeney, that is it. If we were to have a solid front three, plus Mathis and Freeney... ooooh, the possibilities.

I really don't appreciate being told I don't follow the team...we do not know each other and I would never say you don't watch the Colts because I disagree with you. That said we are just going to have to disagree about Freeney and his ability to "stand up" in a 3-4. Freeney is great in the 4-3 DE position where he can speed rush the outside or use his spin and shoot the gap. I respect your enthusiasm about him but I simply don't agree with your assessment. He has never dropped into pass coverage or shown lateral quickness to rove right and left. He is simply a straight gap player and a great one at that. Thats not disrespecting the guy..and I think someone will call for him once abraham is off the market as the draft is week on DE and with Abraham and Williams off the market and many 4-3 teams still needing a pass rusher someone will talk to him about extending.

As far as rolling over the 14 million please read the CBA...any unused salary cap can be used to go over the cap next year as that is why we are seeing several teams this year spend. That cap space would be very valuable in rebuilding the team. I am sorry I disagree with those that think he can play in space because I just don't see it... and you have to be able to do that. Not only play the pass but the run...and you can't rush the passer everytime because teams will exploit him and run routes and the offense to exploit it. As great a DE as he is I think he would make a poor standup OLB. Thats my opinion. I guess we just disagree. If what you said is true about him then we wouldn't be shopping him...and also 3-4 teams would be asking about him....both simply do not support your claim.

mvbighead · March 16, 2012

I really don't appreciate being told I don't follow the team...we do not know each other and I would never say you don't watch the Colts because I disagree with you. That said we are just going to have to disagree about Freeney and his ability to "stand up" in a 3-4. Freeney is great in the 4-3 DE position where he can speed rush the outside or use his spin and shoot the gap. I respect your enthusiasm about him but I simply don't agree with your assessment. He has never dropped into pass coverage or shown lateral quickness to rove right and left. He is simply a straight gap player and a great one at that. Thats not disrespecting the guy..and I think someone will call for him once abraham is off the market as the draft is week on DE and with Abraham and Williams off the market and many 4-3 teams still needing a pass rusher someone will talk to him about extending.
As far as rolling over the 14 million please read the CBA...any unused salary cap can be used to go over the cap next year as that is why we are seeing several teams this year spend. That cap space would be very valuable in rebuilding the team. I am sorry I disagree with those that think he can play in space because I just don't see it... and you have to be able to do that. Not only play the pass but the run...and you can't rush the passer everytime because teams will exploit him and run routes and the offense to exploit it. As great a DE as he is I think he would make a poor standup OLB. Thats my opinion. I guess we just disagree. If what you said is true about him then we wouldn't be shopping him...and also 3-4 teams would be asking about him....both simply do not support your claim.

Mathis hasn't dropped into pass coverage either. What makes you think he can do it?

The rollover bit is news to me, so my apologies on not seeing that one.

In any case, Freeney did not become an #11th overall pick because he was simply fast in a straight line.

In the past, with Freeney out, Mathis tends to get shut down. The double teams roll to his (Mathis) side, and he doesn't have the ability to overcome them.

I have an extremely difficult time figuring out what you're talking about in terms of Mathis being a great fit and Freeney not being so. Each has had the same job on this team for the past 7+ years... GET TO THE QUARTERBACK. In this defense, their roles would change.

As I understand it, Mathis is excited about the new possibilities. The only reports that anyone has mentioned from Freeney's camp is that he wants to remain with his hand in the dirt. The problem is, as of yet, there is nothing direct from Freeney that has indicated this (to my knowledge).

So, there are ONLY two issues at play here:

1) The salary.

2) Freeney's desire to play the position.

If Pagano has said that he's excited about the opportunity to use both of them as standup guys (which he did in his first press conference). I'd take a defensive coordinator's word on the subject, over someone who tries to tell me that Mathis is a better athlete than Freeney. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot find any cone drills from Freeney due to an injured ankle he was dealing with around the time of the combine.

I am trying to figure out where you are finding your facts, and there are just a couple things I think are hanging you up here:

1) Weight - Freeney is at 268ish, Mathis at 245ish.

2) Age - Freeney is 32, Mathis is 31.

Other than that, the strength and straight line speed are ultimately on Freeney's side. I can only imagine that the other numbers are similar, if not also on Freeney's side.

He also is a nut when it comes to taking care of his body:

http://www.thatsfit.com/2010/02/05/dwight-freeneys-superhuman-super-bowl-diet/

If weight is the issue, I don't see a problem with Freeney dropping to 255 or lighter if required. He's just that crazy about what he is doing. He won't pull a Warren Sapp and get fat and slow. It hasn't been in his personality.

You might think that I am some sort of Dwight Freeney nut job. The reality is, after paying close attention to this team for the past several years, I've kept little nuggets about a lot of the guys. Freeney (aside from PM) is the one who stands out the most as being obsessed with his craft.

Mathis is surely a good player, and even close to great. But Freeney is a great player, without question.

Coffeedrinker · March 16, 2012

In order to trade Freeney the Colts woll have to restructure his monster cap hit.
Either way, something is going on I suppose.

That's not true, it would be up to the team that gets him to restructure his contract to reduce his cap. For the Colts he is completely tradeable(not that I want the Colts to trade him) because only one year of his guaranteed money is accelerated to the cap which is not the large portion of his cap hit.

Just like if the Colts restructured his contract and extended him 3 or 4 years, converted all the money he would have made this year in salary to a signing bonus and then spread that cap hit over the life of the contract his cap hit would be a lot less this year for the Colts.

Captain Americolt · March 16, 2012

What I meant was, his contract will have to be extended/restructured. Whichever team has him.

dgambill · March 17, 2012

Mathis hasn't dropped into pass coverage either. What makes you think he can do it?
The rollover bit is news to me, so my apologies on not seeing that one.
In any case, Freeney did not become an #11th overall pick because he was simply fast in a straight line.
In the past, with Freeney out, Mathis tends to get shut down. The double teams roll to his (Mathis) side, and he doesn't have the ability to overcome them.
I have an extremely difficult time figuring out what you're talking about in terms of Mathis being a great fit and Freeney not being so. Each has had the same job on this team for the past 7+ years... GET TO THE QUARTERBACK. In this defense, their roles would change.
As I understand it, Mathis is excited about the new possibilities. The only reports that anyone has mentioned from Freeney's camp is that he wants to remain with his hand in the dirt. The problem is, as of yet, there is nothing direct from Freeney that has indicated this (to my knowledge).
So, there are ONLY two issues at play here:
1) The salary.
2) Freeney's desire to play the position.
If Pagano has said that he's excited about the opportunity to use both of them as standup guys (which he did in his first press conference). I'd take a defensive coordinator's word on the subject, over someone who tries to tell me that Mathis is a better athlete than Freeney. The unfortunate thing is that I cannot find any cone drills from Freeney due to an injured ankle he was dealing with around the time of the combine.
I am trying to figure out where you are finding your facts, and there are just a couple things I think are hanging you up here:
1) Weight - Freeney is at 268ish, Mathis at 245ish.
2) Age - Freeney is 32, Mathis is 31.
Other than that, the strength and straight line speed are ultimately on Freeney's side. I can only imagine that the other numbers are similar, if not also on Freeney's side.
He also is a nut when it comes to taking care of his body:
http://www.thatsfit....uper-bowl-diet/
If weight is the issue, I don't see a problem with Freeney dropping to 255 or lighter if required. He's just that crazy about what he is doing. He won't pull a Warren Sapp and get fat and slow. It hasn't been in his personality.
You might think that I am some sort of Dwight Freeney nut job. The reality is, after paying close attention to this team for the past several years, I've kept little nuggets about a lot of the guys. Freeney (aside from PM) is the one who stands out the most as being obsessed with his craft.
Mathis is surely a good player, and even close to great. But Freeney is a great player, without question.

It really wasn't that Freeney wasn't fast enough (he is extremely quick pass rusher) but playing standing up and moving laterally from sideline to sideline and covering a back out of the backfield or TE or fall back in zone coverage he has never shown me he could do that. He avgs like 20 tackles a year. That is just plain sad. I know they asked him to rush the passer but his new job would have to include a great deal different skills. Skills I haven't seen him possess. If you want to pay him 19 million dollars than be my guest but I believe we could get several players for that which would fill many many holes.

The reason I felt Mathis would be a better fit is I have seen Mathis on several occassions stand up and not get down in a 3 point stance over there...and do more stunts than Freeney. Just watching him making tackles all over the field has shown me while he may not be the ideal 3-4 linebacker he has more than enough lateral quickness and agility to make up for his lack of experience. Mathis had 43 tackles last year...and in the last 3 years has over twice as many tackles a Dwight. 140 to Dwights 68 all while having just as many forced fumbles and sacks. I won't sit here and say Dwight isn't a beast or a better pass rusher then Mathis but I will say Mathis is more active and in on more plays than Dwight. The numbers support it and that is why I think he would be more effective in the new defense. Couple that with the outrageous contract and well that is why I am in support of moving him. You can tell me all the amazing 40 times and bench presses and what he ate all you want. What I see is what happens on the field and Mathis is much more active on stopping the run while still getting after the passer and has shown much more agility. Maybe that is just my opinion and no one else here feels that way...guess time will tell.

mvbighead · March 17, 2012

It really wasn't that Freeney wasn't fast enough (he is extremely quick pass rusher) but playing standing up and moving laterally from sideline to sideline and covering a back out of the backfield or TE or fall back in zone coverage he has never shown me he could do that. He avgs like 20 tackles a year. That is just plain sad. I know they asked him to rush the passer but his new job would have to include a great deal different skills. Skills I haven't seen him possess. If you want to pay him 19 million dollars than be my guest but I believe we could get several players for that which would fill many many holes.
The reason I felt Mathis would be a better fit is I have seen Mathis on several occassions stand up and not get down in a 3 point stance over there...and do more stunts than Freeney. Just watching him making tackles all over the field has shown me while he may not be the ideal 3-4 linebacker he has more than enough lateral quickness and agility to make up for his lack of experience. Mathis had 43 tackles last year...and in the last 3 years has over twice as many tackles a Dwight. 140 to Dwights 68 all while having just as many forced fumbles and sacks. I won't sit here and say Dwight isn't a beast or a better pass rusher then Mathis but I will say Mathis is more active and in on more plays than Dwight. The numbers support it and that is why I think he would be more effective in the new defense. Couple that with the outrageous contract and well that is why I am in support of moving him. You can tell me all the amazing 40 times and bench presses and what he ate all you want. What I see is what happens on the field and Mathis is much more active on stopping the run while still getting after the passer and has shown much more agility. Maybe that is just my opinion and no one else here feels that way...guess time will tell.

They're paying him 14, not 19. And I've also said time and again that salary remains an issue.

As for having more tackles... Having a lot of tackles doesn't necessarily indicate much, just as having several INTs doesn't necessarily make one player better than an another.

Let me ask, would you rather have Darrell Revis as a CB, or Kyle Arrington? Even know who Kyle Arrington is? Problem is, he had 7 INTs to Revis' 4. Is he a better DB than Revis? Highly unlikely.

Stats don't always tell the hole story. Freeney is and has been the most doubled man on the Colts defense in all recent years. That much is fact. If he gets more attention from blockers, it frees up other players to make plays. That's how our defense has worked for years. You pull Freeney, and we get man handled, thus the reason they drafted Hughes... to find yet another pass rusher in case Freeney gets injured. Problem is, Hughes can't hold Freeney's pads, let alone anything else.

The long short is, Freeney is and has been the impact player on our defense. He has made things work.

He has lateral mobility, he's just not asked to do much other than attack the passer. That changes this year if he remains with the Colts. Chances are, they'll want him to take less money to do it.

But in any case, Freeney and Mathis are largely pass rushers, who minor in run stopping. They have a similar skill set. Freeney is simply a bit tougher and faster. His agility is there, there simply aren't numbers out there to prove it. But the key thing is, Freeney has drawn the most attention from opposing teams. You'll hear announcers say it time and time again.

Deano1818 · March 17, 2012

Mathis is MUCH better than Freeney against the run.

Thats why he would be a better fit in a 3-4

UndecidedFrog · March 18, 2012

Well, IMO, the team is at a point in their cap spending, that they need to address the Freeney contract. There is very little room to maneuver until Freeney either is traded/cut or restructures an extension. IMO, at best, the FO can do one more medium sized FA signing without addressing Freeney.

braveheartcolt · March 18, 2012

Well, IMO, the team is at a point in their cap spending, that they need to address the Freeney contract. There is very little room to maneuver until Freeney either is traded/cut or restructures an extension. IMO, at best, the FO can do one more medium sized FA signing without addressing Freeney.

So if it must be a 'medium sized FA', does that mean it can't be a NT? They are huge!

UndecidedFrog · March 18, 2012

So if it must be a 'medium sized FA', does that mean it can't be a NT? They are huge!

LOL, I was referring to a medium-sized FA signing. One that does not hit the 2012 cap too much. But then, you knew that.

If we were following the old Colts' MO, then a D lineman would be medium-sized to ensure that it is aligned with the philosophy of a fast, but under-sized smurf-like defense.

braveheartcolt · March 18, 2012

LOL, I was referring to a medium-sized FA signing. One that does not hit the 2012 cap too much. But then, you knew that.
If we were following the old Colts' MO, then a D lineman would be medium-sized to ensure that it is aligned with the philosophy of a fast, but under-sized smurf-like defense.

Very true. I hope those days are over.......although the Smurfs could be a good name of our new D if they are not!

MTC · March 18, 2012

Robert Mathis tweeted he will be a Sam LB in the 3-4 defense (Equivalent to Jarret Johnson) and he said Dwight Freeney will be a Rush LB (Equivalent to Terrell Suggs).

ArmyRecon3788 · March 18, 2012

I don't see why freeney can't rush from stand up..Derrick Thomas,Kevin green,Leslie O'Neal,Chris Doleman,Willie McGinest all at one point in careers were either de's making change to olb or olb making change to de ..Tamba Hali(who has similar build to freeney)Elvis Dumervil, Calvin Pace,Bryan Thomas,James Harrison,Lamar Woodley,Terrell Suggs, Mario Williams,Shawnee Merriman,Shaun Phillips,Brian Orakpro, Demarcus Ware,Jason Taylor,Julian Peterson have all changed from de's to olb at one point or another in their careers ...So I think Dwight if motivated could do it b/c he has more talent then some on that list

mvbighead · March 26, 2012

Looks like money isn't an issue with Grigson/Irsay:

https://twitter.com/#!/mchappell51/status/184324109398843392

Go get 'em Freeney.

Sorry dgambill, but you simply can't argue the importance of a guy like Freeney.

Busta · March 26, 2012

Looks like money isn't an issue with Grigson/Irsay:
https://twitter.com/...324109398843392
Go get 'em Freeney.
Sorry dgambill, but you simply can't argue the importance of a guy like Freeney.

Just like money wasn't an issue for Irsay when Peyton was still a Colt....

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