TE Jack Doyle expected to be placed on I.R.

[DougDew]

BTW, speaking of talent vs system if that's where we're going, 

 

Did TY put up great numbers in Chud's system and Reich's system?

 

Great numbers despite the system.

 

Just checking my facts.

 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

@DougDew  You know, at some point, you might have gotten a little sympathy from some people.  The "forgive him for he knows not what he does" people.

 

But at this point, I think you just have a martyr complex, and that's something pretty much nobody sympathizes with.

 

Good luck, man.  I hope you're just like this on the internet and not like this in the real world.

[AntonMcG]

32 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Right.  He does "slot" receiver work by lining up next to the OT.  But he's not a slot receiver.  He's not a wide receiver.  He's a receiver. 

 

And its why teams with guys like him have a guy (a slower guy and more of a blocker than him) next to the other OT in the "two TE" set. 

 

The teams with one TE set don't generally have receivers lined up next to the OT. 

 

That third receiver is lined up in the slot.

 

Its been the same concept we've had since Pollard and Dilger.  Simple.

 

BTW, Pollard was a pretty easy find.  Got him off the basketball court if IIRC.

 

I think you missed the point of what I said. It isn't subjective. You are objectively wrong. He is a Tight End because that is he position he plays. His role has no bearing on that.

[hoosierhawk]

10 minutes ago, DougDew said:

BTW, speaking of talent vs system if that's where we're going, 

 

Did TY put up great numbers in Chud's system and Reich's system?

 

Great numbers despite the system.

 

Just checking my facts.

 

Fact: if he were ask to block a blitzing linebacker he would have failed

Fact: If he were ask to play nose guard he would have failed.

[Trueman]

lol , what did I just read. 




 

[RollerColt]

What a rough year for Jack Doyle. 

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, AntonMcG said:

 

I think you missed the point of what I said. It isn't subjective. You are objectively wrong. He is a Tight End because that is he position he plays. His role has no bearing on that.

I got the point, and established bucketed labels don't matter.  I called him a receiver.    He doesn't block (often), he doesn't play the slot, nor wide, he's not the H back, he's simply a receiver.

 

His role is what provides him the stats, so that's why its relevant.

[strt182]

36 minutes ago, hoosierhawk said:

30 other teams in the profession obviously didn't see the talent or they would have went after hi. Ballard did. ?great signing and great foresight. Admit it.

I'm not sure if there is proof that nobody else went after him but Ballard got his signature. This is kinda like saying that Ballard never went after any big name free agents this year, we as fans just don't know the behind the scenes like we really wish we did.  

 

That being said I like the addition of Ebron and he has helpped the team. Anybody that makes it to the NFL has some kind of talent or they wouldn't get there. Some players don't live up to expectations for many different reasons doesn't mean they don't have talent.  I'm not saying this is the case but coaching and scheme can also make some average players look like great players also. 

[hoosierhawk]

 

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I got the point, and established bucketed labels don't matter.  I called him a receiver.    He doesn't block (often), he doesn't play the slot, nor wide, he's not the H back, he's simply a receiver.

 

His role is what provides him the stats, so that's why its relevant.

He scored on a running play so maybe he is a running back.

Wait, he throw a pass so maybe he is a 
QB.

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

@DougDew  You know, at some point, you might have gotten a little sympathy from some people.  The "forgive him for he knows not what he does" people.

 

But at this point, I think you just have a martyr complex, and that's something pretty much nobody sympathizes with.

 

Good luck, man.  I hope you're just like this on the internet and not like this in the real world.

I'm not interested in sympathy.  

 

What I am feeling is like that chicken in the hen house that that gets constantly pecked at by the mass for no good rational reason other than it seems like the thing to do at the time. Their action simply has support in numbers.

 

So what is your answer....Did we not change schemes for the purpose of getting receivers open more often?  And how does that compare to Detroit's system?

1 minute ago, hoosierhawk said:

 

He scored on a running play so maybe he is a running back.

No, he's a receiver who scored on a running play.  They do that sometimes.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

 established bucketed labels don't matter

 

Then WHY are you making an issue out of this?  You're the one that took exception to how he was labeled in the first place...

 

Let's just create a new position, call him a "TD-Maker" and be done with it!

 

 

I mean, seriously, what's it gonna take for you to get down off your soapbox?

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Then WHY are you making an issue out of this?  You're the one that took exception to how he was labeled in the first place...

 

Let's just create a new position, call him a "TD-Maker" and be done with it!

 

 

I mean, seriously, what's it gonna take for you to get down off your soapbox?

Out of context.  He's a receiver who has no material role in the NFL unless paired with a TE in a two TE set.  That's my opinion and it could change as I am open to it if he shows otherwise.   OTOH, Doyle has a role in either system.

 

"Meh, its not that amazing of a signing.  Other guys could probably put up good or similar numbers including Swoope" (who can run 15 yards to a wide open space just as quickly).

 

People not letting that go and quoting me is why we're still here bro.

[jvan1973]

9 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Out of context.  He's a receiver who has no material role in the NFL unless paired with a TE in a two TE set.  That's my opinion and it could change as I am open to it if he shows otherwise.   OTOH, Doyle has a role in either system.

 

"Meh, its not that amazing of a signing.  Other guys could probably put up good or similar numbers including Swoope" (who can run 15 yards to a wide open space just as quickly).

 

People not letting that go and quoting me is why we're still here bro.

Yep,   still wrong.   You chose a weird hill to die on.     It's embarrassing really.

 

Why is Ebron the only one doing it?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

I kind of feel like an anthropologist that's discovered a new species of internet troll.

 

"It's like it doesn't know it's a troll.  See how it plays the victim and claims that others are the ones trolling it?  Amazing.  I think I will name it the MockingTroll.  Evolution never ceases to amaze me.  See how it constantly deflects criticism and changes the argument?  Truly amazing.  Let's see what it does next."

[Lucky Colts Fan]

12 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Out of context.

 

Good God.  You're a slippery one...

Is that the problem?  We've all been taking all of your posts out of context?

 

14 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Other guys could probably put up good or similar numbers including Swoope

 

Ok, but they're not.  Only Ebron is.  So isn't your whole point moot?

[DougDew]

8 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Yep,   still wrong.   You chose a weird hill to die on.     It's embarrassing really.

 

Why is Ebron the only one doing it?

The only one doing what?  In the NFL this season?  How does that matter?

 

So why did Ballard sign Ebron.  Is it because he outfoxed competing GMs, saw something that only he saw, or it is that Reich's offense demands someone like Ebron and he was the best option available.  Why is that amazing, as in an out of the ordinary or exceptional way?

 

[DougDew]

Just now, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Good God.  You're a slippery one...

Is that the problem?  We've all been taking all of your posts out of context?

 

 

Ok, but they're not.  Only Ebron is.  So isn't your whole point moot?

No.  Just you, and just that one, AFAIK.

 

You exaggerating my post then attacking it is the problem.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Why is that amazing, as in out of the ordinary in an exceptional way?

 

Because he's the ONLY ONE to do it.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

@DougDew  Just answer this question and I'll drop it:

 

Why isn't anyone agreeing with you?

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Superman said:

 

That will never happen. This is probably the least argumentative this forum has been in years.

Just what is that suppose to mean? 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

I think you are sensitive to Ebron for some reason.  You're usually logical but this post moves off that by some margin.

 

That's rich.

 

Quote

 

Did we not change systems to scheme players open?  Did Ebron have in his person the same level of talent last year in Detroit than he does now?  He's the same player as he was last year who is having a better year than he is ever had, and he's doing it with a better offensive coach and probably a better QB than he has ever had.

 

 

You do understand that scheme is just one variable in the equation, right? 

 

You're giving credit to everyone and everything, but somehow none rightfully belongs to Ebron... 

 

Quote

Given those facts, how in the world can anybody use his stats this year to conclude how talented he is?

 

Are we talking about how talented he is, or are we talking about how good a season he's having and how well he's working out for the Colts? I mean, you've even acknowledged that he was the #10 pick for a reason, and it's not his personality...

 

Also, we can name a hundred guys who are talented, but never produce like Ebron is producing now. 

 

Quote

 

I'm not saying he isn't.  I'm questioning the statement that he is, and asking for more support before I can get there. Those two thoughts are not the same thing.

 

 

You're hedging. 

 

Your argument seems to be obvious: Ebron's season isn't impressive and says little to nothing about how good he is, because the credit should go to the scheme and the QB, not Ebron. And by extension, Ballard shouldn't be given credit for a good signing, because it's not really that good of a signing. 

 

If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify. 

[Luck 4 president]

@DougDew what is your definition of a TE? And do you consider Ryan Hewitt a lineman instead of TE? I’m honestly curious. 

[crazycolt1]

3 hours ago, Introspect said:

Cut bait...... CB likes players who can stay healthy

Jack is not going to be cut. He is too valuable to the team.

[jvan1973]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

The only one doing what?  In the NFL this season?  How does that matter?

 

So why did Ballard sign Ebron.  Is it because he outfoxed competing GMs, saw something that only he saw, or it is that Reich's offense demands someone like Ebron and he was the best option available.  Why is that amazing, as in an out of the ordinary or exceptional way?

 

Does any other team have a player having this effect on the offense in his first year in the team? Ebron has scored more tds than any other tight end this season in only 11 games.   The fact that you're the only one who can't see it was a great signing isn't surprising to me.   

[jvan1973]

I feel another Dougdew melt down coming.  Lmao.  Unreal how often he is wrong

[Btown_Colt]

40 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Out of context.  He's a receiver who has no material role in the NFL unless paired with a TE in a two TE set.  That's my opinion and it could change as I am open to it if he shows otherwise.   OTOH, Doyle has a role in either system.

 

"Meh, its not that amazing of a signing.  Other guys could probably put up good or similar numbers including Swoope" (who can run 15 yards to a wide open space just as quickly).

 

People not letting that go and quoting me is why we're still here bro.

Why isn’t Swoope putting up the numbers then?

[crazycolt1]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

I feel another Dougdew melt down coming.  Lmao.  Unreal how often he is wrong

He just digs himself deeper trying to back track on what he says.

[DougDew]

2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

@DougDew  Just answer this question and I'll drop it:

 

Why isn't anyone agreeing with you?

About what?

 

Hmmm. maybe this is all about word usage, and I simply can't get myself to use the words others use.

 

As hypothetical examples:

 

I mocked Leonard to us at 36 or 37, so I would never call drafting Leonard an amazing draft pick.  It was a pretty standard draft pick for a team in need of a rangy LB.  Because others didn't know him may have made the pick amazing to them, but should I have to call it amazing just to appease those bullies who would demand it?

 

I thought Cain was a good pick before round 6, and even Ballard picked Fountain ahead of him.  So if Cain produces exceptional to his draft position, should I consider that an exceptional pick just because the hen-pecking masses demand it?

 

I've been saying we needed more talent at number 2 WR for years.  Now that many see that, am I suppose to join in like its a new revelation?  Why can't I treat it as ho-hum old news, since it is to me?

 

If I point out that Irsay wanted a power offense that demanded a bell-cow RB as opposed to an offense that doesn't, I might conclude that the GM trading for TRich made some sense, especially since nobody was saying he was a bad player.  Should I pile on by using hindsight to conclude the trade sucked because nearly everybody else describes it that way?

 

There's many more examples, but I'll leave it at that.

 

I guess don't know how to grade my opinions based upon how many agree or not.  Its not my nature.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

About what?

 

Hmmm. maybe this is all about word usage, and I simply can't get myself to use the words others use.

Why are there people coming out of the woodwork to disagree with your ho-hum take on Ebron/Ballard and not a single person is agreeing with you?

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Hmmm. maybe this is all about word usage, and I simply can't get myself to use the words others use.

 

As hypothetical examples:

 

If it was as simple as hypothetical semantics, at least ONE person would have agreed with you by now.

 

But not a SINGLE person has come to your defense while people are coming out of the woodwork to disagree with you.

 

You are being a troll and you know it.  Troll.

[rock8591]

I agree 100%.

 

DougDew based on his posts have so far appears to have shown himself as a troll.

 

Each time, he makes a post...then later goes back on what he says. I read the tabloids for the news, and his posts for comedy. Each time I read one of his posts, I laugh harder than Clinton-Dix.

[Trueman]

I haven't been here that long , but I genuinely don't think Doug is trolling. 

This is an upgrade over the .500 discussion , but not by much.

[DougDew]

56 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

That's rich.

 

 

You do understand that scheme is just one variable in the equation, right? 

 

You're giving credit to everyone and everything, but somehow none rightfully belongs to Ebron... 

 

 

Are we talking about how talented he is, or are we talking about how good a season he's having and how well he's working out for the Colts? I mean, you've even acknowledged that he was the #10 pick for a reason, and it's not his personality...

 

Also, we can name a hundred guys who are talented, but never produce like Ebron is producing now. 

 

 

You're hedging. 

 

Your argument seems to be obvious: Ebron's season isn't impressive and says little to nothing about how good he is, because the credit should go to the scheme and the QB, not Ebron. And by extension, Ballard shouldn't be given credit for a good signing, because it's not really that good of a signing. 

 

If I'm misunderstanding, please clarify. 

If that's what this is about, and I don't think it is, yes, he is having a good season and it says something about how good he is.  (not to parse words, but I would not use impressive)

 

But others who claim he is great, have not acknowledged that scheme and good QBing have a lot to do with it, especially when they simply quote this seasons stats but fail to quote how his talent produced few stats in a different system, unlike TY. 

 

Which is my point when I suggested long ago that Swoope could probably put up good numbers this season too.  Not to mention the possibility that Ebron gets more looks because of the void of other reliable options Luck can look for (I assume the Ballard Patrol reads this as a shot on Ballard, so they immediately take exception to it)

 

And no, signing the best guy available to play the role Reich needs is not that amazing of a signing to me.  Its a good signing.  Excuse me for not saying the proper word that everyone else would use.

 

Yet, I'm the one constantly being challenged. 

 

Why is that? 

 

What all of this is ultimately about is this.  "Ballard is doing a good job.  We are in a better place".  Ebron is a good player and he was a good signing.

 

But that language isn't good enough for the Ballard Patrol.  So its my intent to use it every time, because that's the way I feel, until they stop being the Ballard Patrol towards me.  (and some others, BTW) or until the mods have them labeled as the trolls.

 

I don't quote (start a fight over this stuff).  I give nonpraising, somewhat meh, comments in threads, because that's the way I feel.  They troll those comments by quoting me.  Its on them.

 

And BTW, as I have said in the past, I am biased against receivers at the TE position.  I didn't mind Dallas Clark being selected low in the first round, but I always thought he was overrated as a player (product of Manning) did not take care of the ball as well as reported, and was way over-signed with Polian's last contract.  And his lesser clone, Jacob Tamme, had to follow Manning to Denver. I wanted Fleener gone after I heard his contract demands. I simply have a hard time handing out praise to anyone in that one-dimensional position.    Its a very high bar for me, and I think the stats are somewhat manufactured compared to other receivers.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

8 minutes ago, DougDew said:

What all of this is ultimately about is this.  "Ballard is doing a good job.  We are in a better place".  Ebron is a good player and he was a good signing.

 

Thank you.  Why couldn't you have just said that instead of "Meh"?

 

You have an incredibly high standard for "amazing".  We can just agree to disagree on that.

 

I take back the "troll" comments.  I'm sorry.

[DougDew]

1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Thank you.  Why couldn't you have just said that instead of "Meh"?

 

You have an incredibly high standard for "amazing".  We can just agree to disagree on that.

 

I take back the "troll" comments.  Sorry.

I believe I did way back when.  But so many members of the Ballard Patrol were on the hunt it got lost in the wash.

 

If they are gong to key off of other things I say, I can't predict that.

 

[Scott Pennock]

Troy Niklas is available.....all 6'6" and 270 lbs of a blocking TE (who was recruited as a LB to ND) who can attempt to play Doyle's role and he's only 26.....

[Lucky Colts Fan]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

I believe I did way back when.  But so many members of the Ballard Patrol were on the hunt it got lost in the wash.

 

If they are gong to key off of other things I say, I can't predict that.

 

At first, you made it sound like Ebron was having a "Meh" season and he was a "Meh" signing by Ballard.  Things kind of spiraled from there, and that's how you ended up in this position:

 

 

I'll take my fair share of the blame for my contribution.

 

But I'd honestly like to know if there's anything in the football world that you DO find "amazing" because now you have me truly curious about what your standard is.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

At first, you made it sound like Ebron was having a "Meh" season and he was a "Meh" signing by Ballard.  Things kind of spiraled from there, and that's how you ended up in this position:

 

 

I'll take my fair share of the blame for my contribution.

 

But I'd honestly like to know if there's anything in the football world that you DO find "amazing" because now you have me truly curious about what your standard is.

Yeah I know, the whole stupid thread got hung up over a word, which tells me the beef was really about something else. 

 

To answer your question, I haven't thought about it.  I see individual plays that I would call amazing but I don't think I ever used that word in my life to describe a person or a decision.

 

Not criticizing others usage.  Just explaining mine.   

[Superman]

17 minutes ago, DougDew said:

If that's what this is about, and I don't think it is, yes, he is having a good season and it says something about how good he is.  (not to parse words, but I would not use impressive)

 

Did you have your vomit bucket nearby? I know that was hard for you...

 

Quote

But others who claim he is great, have not acknowledged that scheme and good QBing have a lot to do with it, especially when they simply quote this seasons stats but fail to quote how his talent produced few stats in a different system, unlike TY. 

 

I think you're being sensational here. I'm not sure anyone is claiming he's great, and I'm not sure anyone is refusing to acknowledge the role that the scheme and QB have played in his production. I think the impact of those variables is painfully obvious and don't even need to be mentioned, they're just given facts. But I bet everyone pushing back against you on this topic would readily admit that scheme and QBing are a major factor in Ebron's production this season. 

 

From my perspective, the contention is more that you've gone out of your way to diminish Ebron's impact. Which brings me to...

 

Quote

 

Which is my point when I suggested long ago that Swoope could probably put up good numbers this season too.  Not to mention the possibility that Ebron gets more looks because of the void of other reliable options Luck can look for (I assume the Ballard Patrol reads this as a shot on Ballard, so they immediately take exception to it)

 

And no, signing the best guy available to play the role Reich needs is not that amazing of a signing to me.  Its a good signing.  Excuse me for not saying the proper word that everyone else would use.

 

Yet, I'm the one constantly being challenged. 

 

Why is that? 

 

What all of this is ultimately about is this.  "Ballard is doing a good job.  We are in a better place".  Ebron is a good player and he was a good signing.

 

But that language isn't good enough for the Ballard Patrol.  So its my intent to use it every time, because that's the way I feel, until they stop being the Ballard Patrol towards me.  (and some others, BTW) or until the mods have them labeled as the trolls.

 

I don't quote (start a fight over this stuff).  I give nonpraising, somewhat meh, comments in threads, because that's the way I feel.  They troll those comments by quoting me.  Its on them.

 

 

And this is where it reads like your entire objective is really to diminish Ballard, and/or take exception to anyone giving him credit. And that's gonna go back to the Grigson thing.

 

This isn't hard. If a GM signs a player who has an immediate impact and puts up league-leading production, that GM deserves some credit. Add to it that this player was released by his previous team due to lack of consistent production, and it looks like the GM made a great pickup. 

 

Saying 'Ebron is playing really well, and was a great signing by Ballard' isn't a radical fanboy statement.

 

But you stake your claim to this weird, illogical position, and then play the victim card, which attracts even more attention. 

 

Quote

And BTW, as I have said in the past, I am biased against receivers at the TE position.  I didn't mind Dallas Clark being selected low in the first round, but I always thought he was overrated as a player (product of Manning) did not take care of the ball as well as reported, and was way over-signed with Polian's last contract.  And his lesser clone, Jacob Tamme, had to follow Manning to Denver. I wanted Fleener gone after I heard his contract demands. I simply have a hard time handing out praise to anyone in that one-dimensional position.    Its a very high bar for me, and I think the stats are somewhat manufactured compared to other receivers.

 

Unless it's Jack Doyle. Coincidentally a Grigson player (or Swoope, another Grigson player). 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I don't think I ever used that word in my life to describe a person or a decision. 

 

Not criticizing others usage.  Just explaining mine.

 

 

Fair enough.

 

Permission to refer to you as the "Stanley" of the forum from now on?  Like we all get easily amazed by something, and you're just like:

 

 

Eh?  What do you think?  Pretty good, right?