Another Season of Slow Starts?

[RollerColt]

49 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

And almost 100 yards rushing in the first half.

True, the 4-3 defense is not good for run stopping. We are going to be back to the bend don't break style of the early 2000s with turnovers and game changing plays being the showcase. 

 

 

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, King Colt said:

If it's not about winning why did they go for two points in the second preseasoner? ALL games are about winning in the NFL.

They didnt want to go to overtime in preseason so they went for 2

[Steamboat_Shaun]

6 hours ago, J@son said:

 

rushing yardage doesn't beat you

 

Correct. Rushing yards or not, teams haven't been scoring very much on our defense. Kyle Shanahan's offense with Garropolo at QB only put up 6 in the first half the other day, & all anyone wants to talk about is the YPC. It's like everyone wants Pagano back so we can hear some more about how he wants to "build a monster to run the ball & stop the run."

[Case]

7 hours ago, King Colt said:

Yeah, it does not matter whether a team wins or loses with the starters out there. The Colts lost preseason game two by going for two at the end of the game because winning does not matter.

Browns went undefeated last pre season and Patriots were 1-3........ that’s how little preseason tells you about your team. 

 

 

[a06cc]

The weakness we see during preseason may in fact show during the regular season. Last season we couldn’t stop anything in the middle of the field during preseason. It showed during the regular season. I’m keep an open mind to all this “vanilla playcalling”. However I think we struggle as a defense against the run. The offense needs to start out fast and build a lead. That’s how the defense is constructed. It’s said we’re playing it just like Dungy era. 

[throwing BBZ]

8 hours ago, King Colt said:

Yeah, it does not matter whether a team wins or loses with the starters out there. The Colts lost preseason game two by going for two at the end of the game because winning does not matter.

 

LMAO everybody goes for two to prevent overtime you _____ ___ nice guy. Get your head__ _ __ ___ in the game. 

[VaAllDay757]

I swear some of ya'll don't understand how football season works

[Four2itus]

As soon as they start deciding games by yards given up on the ground, I'll worry about the defense. As soon as they start deciding games based on fast starts by the offense, I'll worry about the offense.

 

Actually no....I don't worry about sports. 

[King Colt]

The OP was about slow starts so not much left to do but wait until the season starts and hopefully the Colts work to avoid playing from behind. Reich emphasized toughness was one of his three points of how the team will play on Golic & Wingo the other day. Hopefully that will be how they play all year long for four quarters instead of two.

[King Colt]

15 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

LMAO everybody goes for two to prevent overtime you _____ ___ nice guy. Get your head__ _ __ ___ in the game. 

Not wanting to play overtime is what the players want, not always what the coaching staff wants. So LMAO in the mirror

[Coffeedrinker]

On 8/28/2018 at 9:58 AM, King Colt said:

If it's not about winning why did they go for two points in the second preseasoner? ALL games are about winning in the NFL.

 

On 8/28/2018 at 10:02 AM, King Colt said:

Yeah, it does not matter whether a team wins or loses with the starters out there. The Colts lost preseason game two by going for two at the end of the game because winning does not matter.

Umm they went for two so the game would not go into OT.

 

And to evaluate the the players with the game on the line.

[Jason_]

On 8/28/2018 at 12:12 PM, RollerColt said:

True, the 4-3 defense is not good for run stopping. We are going to be back to the bend don't break style of the early 2000s with turnovers and game changing plays being the showcase. 

 

 

 

This just is not true.  4-3 or 3-4...it's all about the personnel.  The '06 Bears had the 6th rank defense against the run (yds per game) running the same scheme we're switching to now.

[aaron11]

14 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

This just is not true.  4-3 or 3-4...it's all about the personnel.  The '06 Bears had the 6th rank defense against the run (yds per game) running the same scheme we're switching to now.

its not the 4-3 thats bad against the run, its the cover two.  only 4 down linemen, with the linebackers playing off the ball gives the oline a numbers advantage 

 

 

[Jason_]

28 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

its not the 4-3 thats bad against the run, its the cover two.  only 4 down linemen, with the linebackers playing off the ball gives the oline a numbers advantage 

 

 

 

that's the same defense the Bears ran in '06.  So no it's not the cover 2 either.  It's all about the personnel.

[Jason_]

On 8/28/2018 at 11:50 AM, 1959Colts said:

And almost 100 yards rushing in the first half.

 

case in point...the Colts finished dead last against the run in '06 but still went 12-4 and won the division and ultimately won the SB.  Yes, the run defense picked up significantly in the playoffs but that was definitely not the case in the regular season.

[aaron11]

1 minute ago, J@son said:

 

that's the same defense the Bears ran in '06.  So no it's not the cover 2 either.  It's all about the personnel.

the 06 bears are just one example, the cover two is built to stop the deep pass, not the run

 

run defense is about putting a body on every oline, and its hard to do that when your linebackers are dropping into deep zones and you have only 4 down linemen. 

 

some linebackers are better than others at reading formations and anticipating play calls, and that can explain why that one anecdotal bears team did ok against the run 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

the 06 bears are just one example, the cover two is built to stop the deep pass, not the run

 

run defense is about putting a body on every oline, and its hard to do that when your linebackers are dropping into deep zones and you have only 4 down linemen. 

 

some linebackers are better than others at reading formations and anticipating play calls, and that can explain why that one anecdotal bears team did ok against the run 

The Bucs had success with it

[Jason_]

Just now, aaron11 said:

the 06 bears are just one example, the cover two is built to stop the deep pass, not the run

 

run defense is about putting a body on every oline, and its hard to do that when your linebackers are dropping into deep zones and you have only 4 down linemen. 

 

some linebackers are better than others at reading formations and anticipating play calls, and that can explain why that one anecdotal bears team did ok against the run 

 

Did "ook against the run"?  As I said, they were 6th in the league in fewest yards per game allowed.  That's much better than "ok"

 

I'm well aware of what the intent of the Cover 2 is.  And the Bears are not the only example and not just that one year.  See also the Bucs in the early 2000's.  That's where the Tampa 2 originated and they had a dominant defense for years.  Once again, it's all about the personnel.  Being able to stop the run in a Cover 2 requires very good DTs and a MLB that can read the play well.

[aaron11]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

The Bucs had success with it

you mean one of the most talented defenses ever?

 

some linebackers have more range and better instincts than others 

 

cover two is a pass defense, that doesnt mean it cant ever work against the run, especially when you have very good players like the bucs 

[Jason_]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

the 06 bears are just one example, the cover two is built to stop the deep pass, not the run

 

run defense is about putting a body on every oline, and its hard to do that when your linebackers are dropping into deep zones and you have only 4 down linemen. 

 

some linebackers are better than others at reading formations and anticipating play calls, and that can explain why that one anecdotal bears team did ok against the run 

 

I just read your post more thoroughly and have one more correction.  All 3 LBs do not drop into deep zones.  Only the MLB drops deep.  The Sam and Will both stay closer to the LOS.

[aaron11]

Just now, J@son said:

 

I just read your post more thoroughly and have one more correction.  All 3 LBs do not drop into deep zones.  Only the MLB drops deep.  The Sam and Will both stay closer to the LOS.

and the cover 2 is still meant to take away the deep ball, not the run

 

doesnt mean it cant work against the run, but its a pass defense 

[Jason_]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

you mean one of the most talented defenses ever?

 

some linebackers have more range and better instincts than others 

 

cover two is a pass defense, that doesnt mean it cant ever work against the run, especially when you have very good players like the bucs 

 

uh yeah, that's been my point all along lol.  With the correct personnel, a Cover 2/Tampa 2 defense can be effective against both run and pass.

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

you mean one of the most talented defenses ever?

 

some linebackers have more range and better instincts than others 

 

cover two is a pass defense, that doesnt mean it cant ever work against the run, especially when you have very good players like the bucs 

The Tampa 2 was developed because the NFL is no longer “A 3 yards and a cloud of Dust” League

[SteelCityColt]

4 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

and the cover 2 is still meant to take away the deep ball, not the run

 

doesnt mean it cant work against the run, but its a pass defense 

 

Name a defense (excluding situational ones) that isn’t a pass defense?!

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Name a defense (excluding situational ones) that isn’t a pass defense?!

Know a few that are run at the HS school level but not at the NCAA, NFL level

[aaron11]

4 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Name a defense (excluding situational ones) that isn’t a pass defense?!

cover two is just a play call, different teams call run blitzes by different names

 

i guess a generic word would be any strong side blitz 

 

[SteelCityColt]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

cover two is just a play call, different teams call run blitzes by different names

 

 

 

Its can both really, and you were making it out to be the entire definition of our scheme. 

 

Do you think for run blitzes they sub in extra defensive linemen? 

 

5 minutes ago, PrincetonTiger said:

Know a few that are run at the HS school level but not at the NCAA, NFL level

 

I can imagine that at HS, especially if you came up against a RB that’s a transcendent athlete or a team running some old school ball.

[PrincetonTiger]

9 minutes ago, SteelCityColt said:

 

Its can both really, and you were making it out to be the entire definition of our scheme. 

 

Do you think for run blitzes they sub in extra defensive linemen? 

 

 

I can imagine that at HS, especially if you came up against a RB that’s a transcendent athlete or a team running some old school ball.

We ran a Wing T that featured a run first scheme so they were often ran against us

[aaron11]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

 

Do you think for run blitzes they sub in extra defensive linemen? 

 

no, its about the pre snap call and if the line backers are going to play zone first, or attack the run 

 

really good line backers might make it look seamless if you dont know the call though 

 

 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, aaron11 said:

no, its about the pre snap call and if the line backers are going to play zone first, or attack the run 

 

really good line backers might make it look seamless if you dont know the call though 

 

 

 

So your issue is really with the playcalling? Not that inherently the 4-3 base defense is “bad against the run”?

[aaron11]

Just now, SteelCityColt said:

 

So your issue is really with the playcalling? Not that inherently the 4-3 base defense is “bad against the run”?

i said cover two was bad against the run, not the 4-3

 

doesnt mean that it cant work, but its a play call to stop deep passes not the run 

[SteelCityColt]

Just now, aaron11 said:

i said cover two was bad against the run, not the 4-3

 

doesnt mean that it cant work, but its a play call to stop deep passes not the run 

 

My bad, I apologise, misread post as yours! 

 

Ignore me. 

[PrincetonTiger]

1 minute ago, aaron11 said:

i said cover two was bad against the run, not the 4-3

 

doesnt mean that it cant work, but its a play call to stop deep passes not the run 

4-3 is the D 

  Cover 2 is the coverage call

 

 

   Same thing

[aaron11]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

4-3 is the D 

  Cover 2 is the coverage call

 

 

   Same thing

no, 4-3 is the personal group, cover two is the play call

 

you could also call a 4-3 cover 1, cover 3, cover 4 or any number of blitzes or even man coverage 

 

not the same thing at all

[PrincetonTiger]

6 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

no, 4-3 is the personal group, cover two is the play call

 

you could also call a 4-3 cover 1, cover 3, cover 4 or any number of blitzes or even man coverage 

 

not the same thing at all

Yes it is 

 

  4-3 is the front 7 

  The Cover is Zone call

 

   Blitzes and stunts are often also called in there

 

 

  Tampa 2 is the style of Zone Dungy, Kiffin and Marinelli developed while with the Bucs

  

 

 

 

  You can run a Cover 2 in any zone D scheme

 

   There were times that were ran it in a 4-4 and even a 5-2 but in the NFL it goes with a 4-3 

[Rackeen305]

On 8/27/2018 at 10:15 PM, King Colt said:

The SF game brought memories of the Colts sitting on their hands for the first quarters and having to play catch up in the second half. Horrible defense against the run and the Colts were non-existant in their running game. Second half was "better". It's going to be a very long season if they can't start playing when the game starts regardless of who is on the field.

I just don't get some people saying its only the preseason and kind of "relaxed" about the execution of plays when half the "quality players" are currently injured or coming off injured seasons and thats no big deal aye?

 

When you have teams ala Pats/Steelers/Ravens even Jacksonville has surpassed the Colts last season, this current pre-season, and its no big deal that the Colts realize that they're playing NFL football by the 3rd quarter? Ok Lets hope that those aforementioned teams catch a flat tire or something on the way to the stadium before playing the Colts because if they don't. Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Luck is healthy the entire season! 

 

That slow start crap isn't something where you could flip the switch, it's about reps (Which our Oline hasn't gotten steady/consistent lineups with), available players (Which half of the players are injured). I dont understand. Its not like we have the Ravens of the 2000s of a Defense that can hold any team down. Its the run through the defense Colts JBH. Ask Jacksonville who we play twice a year. 

[Jason_]

24 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

i said cover two was bad against the run, not the 4-3

 

doesnt mean that it cant work, but its a play call to stop deep passes not the run 

 

and the point I've been trying to make that you've even confirmed yourself with posts about the talent the Bucs and Bears had is that, no the Cover 2 in and of itself is not bad against the run.  With the correct personnel, Cover 2 can be effective against both the pass and run.

[PrincetonTiger]

2 minutes ago, Rackeen305 said:

I just don't get some people saying its only the preseason and kind of "relaxed" about the execution of plays when half the "quality players" are currently injured or coming off injured seasons and thats no big deal aye?

 

When you have teams ala Pats/Steelers/Ravens even Jacksonville has surpassed the Colts last season, this current pre-season, and its no big deal that the Colts realize that they're playing NFL football by the 3rd quarter? Ok Lets hope that those aforementioned teams catch a flat tire or something on the way to the stadium before playing the Colts because if they don't. Lets just keep our fingers crossed that Luck is healthy the entire season! 

 

That slow start crap isn't something where you could flip the switch, it's about reps (Which our Oline hasn't gotten steady/consistent lineups with), available players (Which half of the players are injured). I dont understand. Its not like we have the Ravens of the 2000s of a Defense that can hold any team down. Its the run through the defense Colts JBH. Ask Jacksonville who we play twice a year. 

Preseason games are viewed by many as another practice 

 

 

   

[PrincetonTiger]

3 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

and the point I've been trying to make that you've even confirmed yourself with posts about the talent the Bucs and Bears had is that, no the Cover 2 in and of itself is not bad against the run.  With the correct personnel, Cover 2 can be effective against both the pass and run.

The 1st year after a scheme change is the wrong time to grade it 

[Jason_]

Just now, PrincetonTiger said:

The 1st year after a scheme change is the wrong time to grade it 

 

that too...same for the offense