Does Brissett lose momentum in the second half?

[Anthony Stone]

I agree the Colts play not to lose they don't play to win this coach got to go

[Gramz]

We won. He's still learning the playbook.  

 

I don't know about the rest of you here, but I'm happy for the win, and hoping each week gets better.

 

 

[krunk]

5 hours ago, Flash7 said:

It's the play calling. Brissett was fine. Not much he can do if 90% of the calls were run plays.

How did 90 percent run plays get us 31 points?

[Flash7]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

How did 90 percent run plays get us 31 points?

Obvously it wasn't 90%. I exaggerated for effect.

[bigt]

I'm ok with going conservative in the second half when we have a big lead by running the ball more  for the simple fact it decreases the chances our only decent qb will be injured taking a brutal sack or cheap shot.

[CanuckColtsFan]

5 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

No...Chuck just lacks the ability to make adjustments and is often out coached in the end game.  We were fortunate that we held on today.  

We had a sold three score lead and went into protect mode. It worked fortune had nothing to do with that. The Browns were done. We dominated most of the game.

[Freenyfan102]

8 minutes ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

We had a sold three score lead and went into protect mode. It worked fortune had nothing to do with that. The Browns were done. We dominated most of the game.

 We really went conservative at the beginning of the 3rd Quarter they did not even try to score another Touchdown they just tried to run the clock out. 

[CanuckColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Freenyfan102 said:

 We really went conservative at the beginning of the 3rd Quarter they did not even try to score another Touchdown they just tried to run the clock out. 

We did yes. Actually a pretty solid strategy. Play some good plays, surprise them a bit, let your play makers do some work, get a lead. Once you have that lead protect it, take the ball out of the news guys hands. Control the turnover possibilities. We don't have a crazy D or a great run game. But it was a team effort and a plan was n place and was executed for a win.

[CanuckColtsFan]

3 hours ago, Anthony Stone said:

I agree the Colts play not to lose they don't play to win this coach got to go

When you are winning and you play not to lose. That's called winning. Check the schedule there's an uppercase W by this game.

 

We're minus what was the highest paid player in the league before Stafford signed his deal, missing perhaps our most impactful O line man, and a bunch of cbs. That's not bad coaching that's knowing your team. 

 

 

The Steelers only beat them by 3. Bal only scored 24.

 

[Coltsman1788]

2 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

We had a sold three score lead and went into protect mode. It worked fortune had nothing to do with that. The Browns were done. We dominated most of the game.

Going into protect mode shows a weak mentality. I prefer the Colts learn how to put their foot on their opponents necks and finish teams off.  Rather than finishing weakly, I don’t expect that until we have an organizational shift in culture. 

[SteelCityColt]

A large number of posts had to be removed as they were way way off topic and straying yet again into politics.

 

The rules are simple, football talk yes, politics talk no. 

 

Please and thank you.

[SteelCityColt]

9 hours ago, compuls1v3 said:

This goes to someone's acknowledgement of terrible adjustments in the second half and bad play calling.  Why no play action passing if they are stacking the box?  Dungy was very good at second half adjustments in my humble opinion, but Chuck is not good at it.

 

Except they were doing the opposite of stacking the box and playing both safeties deep.. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

12 hours ago, strt182 said:

#firechud enough said 

 

I’m not even sure it’s Chud, I think he’s just implementing Pagano’s strategy.

[lollygagger8]

I don't know if Pagano tells Chud "Hey, just run up the middle 97% of the time in the 2nd half" but it's appalling how badly the Colts play calling is when they have a lead. 

 

It's a complete joke. 

[coltsfeva]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

I’m not even sure it’s Chud, I think he’s just implementing Pagano’s strategy.

  What if it comes down to poor execution and mental mistakes by the players?

   If the Colts had remained aggressive,turned the ball over, and lost, this forum would have exploded. 

[Peterk2011]

12 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

Exactly.  We cannot let Brissett throw the ball 30 or more times, especially right now; thus early in his knowledge of the playbook and teammates.  Letting him game manage and throw 25 or so times is about right.  We must run more effectively, even when the situation dictates it and the other team expects it.  I do not want Brissett throwing pick(s)(sixes) later in games.

 

Agree 100%. Actually, this was the second time Matt Danely's rant against the consevative playcalling in his game reaction podcast * me off. Good gosh, this is what EVERYBODY does in the NFL, because this gives the best chance to win games when you are up by multiple scores. Denver did this against the Chargers, the Rams did this against the Niners, the Jaguars did this against Houston and Baltimore, the Ravens did this against Cincy. Everybody does this. It's frustrating to watch, but this is not for pleasing the audience, it is to win games.

 

The whole point to go conservative is to NOT make mistakes, while being opportunistic because the opponent HAS to take risks. Yeah, sometimes it does not work. Denver almost lost their game against the Chargers. The Niners came very close to win against the Rams.But it's always because they DID commit mistakes, while the opponent, who took the extra risk did not. Denver fumbled / gave away the ball twice, the Rams lost an onside kick, and the Colts yesterday fumbled the ball away (the Doyle fumble), and committed some mistakes (penalties). STILL all 3 teams won their respective games. And when, your team DOES what it's supposed to do, e.g. NOT commit offensive mistakes, and take advantage of the opportunistic approach and force the risk taker opponent to commit them, then its a blowout. Like the Jaguars have blown out theit opponents twice this year. Or the Ravens did against the Bengals. And so on, and so on.

 

So, while I'm always frustrated watching my team go conservative, I accept it because that's the way these games supposed to be managed. And won.

 

(Sorry for my tone, I really don't understand sometimes the the local media people's mindset. What should the Colts do? Should they take further risks, when they are 2+ possessions ahead, and they have a young, inexperienced QB under center? Really? C'mon...)

 

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

{snip}

 

The whole point to go conservative is to NOT make mistakes, while being opportunistic because the opponent HAS to take risks. Yeah, sometimes it does not work.

 

Yes. Especially with an inexperienced backup QB, 3 weeks into a new offensive scheme. Our D shows promise, but they are not experienced enough to make opportunistic plays to close out and win games late, yet. In baseball analogy, It's like they can hit home runs here and there, but they are solo shots mid game, not with runners on base in the late innings.  I believe that will come though.

 

2 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

So, while I'm always frustrated watching my team go conservative, I accept it because that's the way these games supposed to be managed. And won.

 

 

People want us to pile on... but I am reminded how the Falcons lost the Super Bowl last year.  Kyle Shannahan kept on being aggressive and lost a 25 point lead in the 4th quarter. 

 

Matt Ryan talks about Kyle Shanahan choosing not to call a running play while the Falcons were in range to kick a game-clinching field goal, instead calling a series of pass plays that led to a turnover. And his other aggressive play calls.

 

Matt said - "We talk about being the most aggressive team in football. And I’m all for it. But there’s also winning time. You’re not being aggressive not running it there.”

 

No matter what an OC / HC does... if it doesn't work, the masses will call for their heads.  Aggressive or conservative.

 

2 hours ago, Peterk2011 said:

 

(Sorry for my tone, I really don't understand sometimes the the local media people's mindset. What should the Colts do? Should they take further risks, when they are 2+ possessions ahead, and they have a young, inexperienced QB under center? Really? C'mon...)

 

 

Agreed.

[ColtsBlueFL]

18 hours ago, Solon said:

No. I think we become too conservative in 2nd half with the play-calling. Instead of passing the ball downfield like we did in the 1st half, we try and force the run. 

 

Atlanta falcons, 2016 Super Bowl, 25 point lead, 4th quarter.  Passing ball downfield... super bowl runner up...

 

 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

1 hour ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

 

Atlanta falcons, 2016 Super Bowl, 25 point lead, 4th quarter.  Passing ball downfield... super bowl runner up...

 

 

 

They took their shots and lost, it happens. Does that mean we have to run it on first down every single possession?

[Steamboat_Shaun]

4 hours ago, coltsfeva said:

  What if it comes down to poor execution and mental mistakes by the players?

   If the Colts had remained aggressive,turned the ball over, and lost, this forum would have exploded. 

 

Yeah, but by going the conservative route the entire 2nd half, we continued to give the Browns possessions and opportunities to chip away at the lead, which they did. And I'm not suggesting they go no-huddle and chuck the ball 40 yards downfield every possession, but maybe ditch the vanilla preseason offense and actually try to score points. 1 FG in the entire 2nd half is a joke.

[Peterk2011]

39 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

They took their shots and lost, it happens. Does that mean we have to run it on first down every single possession?

 

Simple answer? Yes.  Little bit less simple answer? Of course no. But be (very) conservative with your playcalling. Call only low risk passing concepts, here and there, which a) don't result in incomplete passes, so the clock keeps running down, b) don't result in turnovers.

 

Of course circumstances dictate the "how much". You are willing to take a bit more risks if you play against a high flying Patriots/Falcons offense, who can score 2-3 on you in no time if they get the momentum. While you don't take any risks if you play against a mediocre, turnover prone offense, led by a rookie.

 

Speaking of the Patriots.  The Texans wen't very conservative towards the end of their game against the Pats last night. Their offense was on the field, it was 2nd and 2, and there were 2 minutes something on the clock. If they get a first down, the game is over. The Patriots brought their goal line defense on the field, expecting a run. The Texans rookie QB made a joke of the Patriots defense the whole game, running / escaping all over them, but still, O'Brien indeed elected to run the ball twice. It failed, they didn't get their first down, so they let the Pats offense came on field, and Brady and corp eventually scored and won the game. A conservative approach, which failed. But still, I think the problem wasn't the approach, but simply the execution. They made 3 big mistakes in that last 2 minutes: a) their guard completely missed his blocking on 3rd and 2. b) their CB dropped a very easy interception which could also end the game, c) they blew up their coverage on the most dangerous deep threat guy of the Pats. Make just 1 play of the 3 - neither players needed to do any extra, just what an NFL player is expected to do on any play - and they win that game. So was it O'Brien and his playcalling? No, it's wasn't. He made the right calls, but the team couldn't execute them properly.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

They took their shots and lost, it happens. Does that mean we have to run it on first down every single possession?

 

We passed 5 times in the 1st half, only twice in the second.  The numbers aren't pretty-

 

False start ( -5 )

Sack ( -9 )

20 yds ( TY )

Sack ( 0 )

Incomplete (deep pass, (Roughing the Passer*)

 

Second half

 

Incomplete (deep pass)

short pass ( 6 )

 

2 plays netted 26 yards.  2 plays lost 14 yards.  2 plays netted neither a gain or loss.  One play netted 15 yards, only by personal foul penalty (roughing the QB) 

 

Less than 1 out of 3 plays were good, the rest were bad to horrible. Not something I'd hang my hat on pounding away at with on a 3 score lead...

 

1 hour ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

 

Yeah, but by going the conservative route the entire 2nd half, we continued to give the Browns possessions and opportunities to chip away at the lead, which they did. And I'm not suggesting they go no-huddle and chuck the ball 40 yards downfield every possession, but maybe ditch the vanilla preseason offense and actually try to score points. 1 FG in the entire 2nd half is a joke.

 

 

If we get 3 and outs throwing, we give them possessions and keep time on the clock for them.  Our coaches took some of the strain off the youngsters by giving it to seasoned veterans and also making the clock the 12th defender.  It's painful to watch (as is the prevent defense) for sure.  Here's some anecdotes on the prevent D and Offense play calling-

 

John Madden, not really a fan of the prevent says:

 

“I thought it made the players play too conservatively,” he said. “Pretty soon they’re aware of everything and doing nothing. But I bet if you did the statistics on it, the amount of times that you use it and it works and you win the game would be a pretty high percentage.”

 

As for OC's, here's a sentiment, from the late Mike Heimerdinger -

 

“I know my wife never sits in the stands and hears, ‘Hey, why’s the defense in two-deep?’ ” he told The Times in 2003, when he was OC with the Tennessee Titans  “The only time you ever hear a fan complain about a defense is when they’re in the prevent, and that’s probably because TV announcers are always talking about how they hate the prevent.”

 

It’s when their team is on offense that fans break out the imaginary chalkboards.

 

“If I call a run, half the stadium (and these days a Fan Forum) thinks I should be passing,” Heimerdinger said. “If we throw an incomplete pass, people think I’m an id dee it.”

 

No win scenarios.

[CanuckColtsFan]

11 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

Going into protect mode shows a weak mentality. I prefer the Colts learn how to put their foot on their opponents necks and finish teams off.  Rather than finishing weakly, I don’t expect that until we have an organizational shift in culture. 

It shows awareness of a 2nd string QB with minimal time in our system. What's weak is how people can't take this as a win. The pats barely beat Houston in Foxborough. Go squeaked out a win against Cincy. I don't hear there fans calling for the coaches head. I'm fine with people wanting regime change. I'm personally not on board. I'm not fine with people using this game as an example of why we need regime change. It was never in doubt we had that game start to finish.

[BullsColtsFan1]

Playing call imo.  I don't think he ever lost his momentum.  The Browns made adjustments on T.Y. but I feel like Brissett can still make all the throws if he has the time.  He's accurate and doesn't take many risks.  He'll run when he has too.  The good thing is, he's had another week under his belt.  Hopefully he has a good game next Sunday evening, they'll need to stay on the gas the whole game, they should do that against every team regardless imo. 

[Coltsman1788]

8 hours ago, CanuckColtsFan said:

It shows awareness of a 2nd string QB with minimal time in our system. What's weak is how people can't take this as a win. The pats barely beat Houston in Foxborough. Go squeaked out a win against Cincy. I don't hear there fans calling for the coaches head. I'm fine with people wanting regime change. I'm personally not on board. I'm not fine with people using this game as an example of why we need regime change. It was never in doubt we had that game start to finish.

When you are up 28-7 in the first half it should not come down to a bad team like the Browns having an opportunity at the end.  Chuck went into prevent mode at the end of the first half. That was ridiculously too  early and it almost cost us against a bad Browns team.  Browns out scored the Colts 21-3 after that.  You can love Chuck all you want but that mediocre coach is gone after this year.  Ballard is just letting him dig his own grave with each passing game.

[CanuckColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Coltsman1788 said:

 You can love Chuck all you want but that mediocre coach is gone after this year.  Ballard is just letting him dig his own grave with each passing game.

I'm under no illusions about chucks situation. 

[bigt]

Does anyone know what score PFF gave Brissett against the Brownies?

[bigt]

 Nevermind, 86 2.  Highest rated player on Colts.  2nd best adjusted completion percentage in league behind Taylor.  The next 4 best Colts were Costanzo, Sheard, Hairston, and Hankins.  Nice come back Castonzo.