2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[Colts_Fan12]

33 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

When we're talking about best player of all time in each respective sport, none of those guys qualify. They were great players though

In what world are Marino and Sanders not considered to be the best at their position?

[aaron11]

13 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Have you seen Kevin Durants' Mom responding to Stephen A. Smiths' criticism of KD for going to GS?

 

 

That was smooth.  She da real MVP!

figures the warriors themselves along with their fans and parents dont like the back lash

 

i think we should keep laying it on them though, that was a weak move by KD

 

teams like the pacers and thunder have little to no chance at winning a title because of stuff like this

[Lucky Colts Fan]

2 minutes ago, aaron11 said:

figures the warriors themselves along with their fans and parents dont like the back lash

 

i think we should keep laying it on them though, that was a weak move by KD

 

teams like the pacers and thunder have little to no chance at winning a title because of stuff like this

 

It's been going on for decades.  What's your solution to it?  How do you force parity in a league dominated by a handful of superstars?

 

Franchise tag superstars?  Reconfigure Free-Agency so playoff teams can't add top-tier talent in the off-season?

 

I'd personally like to see more parity so the Pacers can compete, but it will take a serious revamp of the way the whole league operates.  It will also take away the very compelling scenario we see play out every year where two teams with all the top talent are competing in the Finals.  It really is the best against the best.

[aaron11]

8 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

It's been going on for decades.  What's your solution to it?  How do you force parity in a league dominated by a handful of superstars?

 

Franchise tag superstars?  Reconfigure Free-Agency so playoff teams can't add top-tier talent in the off-season?

 

I'd personally like to see more parity so the Pacers can compete, but it will take a serious revamp of the way the whole league operates.  It will also take away the very compelling scenario we see play out every year where two teams with all the top talent are competing in the Finals.  It really is the best against the best.

franchise tag would be a start

 

i dont want to see the best vs the best, i want teams like the pacers to have a fighting chance

 

edit- the luxury tax isnt really fair either, that could be changed

[21isSuperman]

57 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

When we're talking about best player of all time in each respective sport, none of those guys qualify. They were great players though

Marino and Sanders don't qualify as being in the conversation for best all time at their positions?

[chad72]

17 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

It's been going on for decades.  What's your solution to it?  How do you force parity in a league dominated by a handful of superstars?

 

Franchise tag superstars?  Reconfigure Free-Agency so playoff teams can't add top-tier talent in the off-season?

 

I'd personally like to see more parity so the Pacers can compete, but it will take a serious revamp of the way the whole league operates.  It will also take away the very compelling scenario we see play out every year where two teams with all the top talent are competing in the Finals.  It really is the best against the best.

 

My proposal was to pay 3 pennies for every penny that you go over the cap thus reducing the amount of money that teams want to dish out to free agents and go over the cap. Have a franchise tag for the very same reasons also. 

 

Football is popular because of the chance that at least 25% of the teams have to go on a run in the playoffs once they get there to win it all, about 8 out of 32 teams, IMO, and in some years, it can be as high as 10 out of the 12 teams that make the playoffs.

 

In the NBA right now, it may be close to 10% with 3 out of 30 teams possibly having a chance but that is obviously not depth enough to keep fans of those other 27 teams interested or vested, IMO. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

Any list that don't have Dr. J on it makes no sense!

I didn't have Big O either.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

I wouldn't say he's gotten old.  He's still playing some unbelievable basketball at his age.  I'm not going to say he has a bad team around him because that's simply untrue.  He has plenty of talent on this team.  The problem is twofold: the talent isn't showing up (Kyrie, JR, Korver, Tristan Thompson), and Cleveland's talent isn't even in the same realm as Golden State's.  I don't think this has to do with LeBron getting old.

 

This is absolutely ridiculous.  You might not say he is the GOAT, but he's definitely in the conversation.  Here's a hypothetical for you.  Take every year LeBron lost in the Finals and instead have him get knocked out in the first round.  That would give him a Finals record of 3-0 and people would be more serious about him being in the GOAT discussion simply because he has 0 Finals losses.  So people are giving him more criticism and taking him out of the GOAT discussion because he actually made the Finals and advanced further in the playoffs whereas they'd be more lenient if he had gotten knocked out in the first round.

I have LeBron in the convo so I wont even go that far, he's just not in my Top 5. Anyone that is in the Top 10 is actually in the convo IMO.

[Luck is Good]

1 hour ago, aaron11 said:

football is tougher because the positions are so different.  hard to compere QBs to a line backer like LT

 

marino and sanders belong in the discussion of best ever for their positions

Definitely at their positions

[Luck is Good]

1 hour ago, 21isSuperman said:

Marino and Sanders don't qualify as being in the conversation for best all time at their positions?

Obviously, you don't see what I meant. I meant best player of all time. Period. In a respective sport. Not best player at positions. If we're talking positions, no doubt

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Obviously, you don't see what I meant. I meant best player of all time. Period. In a respective sport. Not best player at positions. If we're talking positions, no doubt

What a lot of people cant grasp for some reason is to why some people don't like LeBron, is the fact the media jams him down our throat 24/7. Not everyone likes hearing 24/7 how LeBron is the GOAT or 2nd behind Michael. I cant see how LeBron lovers cant see that side of it. Like I have said from the get go if he loses it wont be his fault at all to the people that love him. They will come up with every excuse imaginable to why the Cavs lost and wont blame him at all but yet the same people have him the GOAT or 2nd best. Back in the 80's when I followed the Lakers I never once made an excuse for Magic losing expect in 1989 because he got injured in Game 2 and couldn't play in Games 3 and 4. That is legit, LeBron is 100% healthy and Durant has outplayed him 2 games in a row now. When it comes to the Ring argument, of course it can be overrated. I mainly use it when it comes to Top 10-15 players of all-time period, that helps separate certain players. I don't use it when it comes to role players or say something silly like Trent Dilfer has a Ring and Marino doesn't - everyone knows Dilfer isn't anywhere near one of the greatest. Now if we are talking Marino/Peyton - that is different.

[crazycolt1]

27 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Obviously, you don't see what I meant. I meant best player of all time. Period. In a respective sport. Not best player at positions. If we're talking positions, no doubt

There is no best player ever in any sport. There is no Goat in any sport either.

It's all opinion and everyone's opinion is different. You may not agree with anyone else's opinion but that don't mean yours is right either.

With the GOAT talk all the so called eras, positions and or ifs enter the picture. It's all subjective at best.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is no best player ever in any sport. There is no Goat in any sport either.

It's all opinion and everyone's opinion is different. You may not agree with anyone else's opinion but that don't mean yours is right either.

With the GOAT talk all the so called eras, positions and or ifs enter the picture. It's all subjective at best.

That is really the hardest part about trying to determine who the GOAT is being it's almost impossible to compare era's. Even if we did it by era's I don't think LeBron is the best, since 2000 I would put Kobe, Shaq, and Duncan over LeBron, JMO's.

[Luck is Good]

7 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

There is no best player ever in any sport. There is no Goat in any sport either.

It's all opinion and everyone's opinion is different. You may not agree with anyone else's opinion but that don't mean yours is right either.

With the GOAT talk all the so called eras, positions and or ifs enter the picture. It's all subjective at best.

There's absolutely a best player ever in every respective sport

[crazycolt1]

15 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

There's absolutely a best player ever in every respective sport

Why do you say that? Is one player called the best over another because that's your opinion? It may not be someone's else's opinion and neither can be right because it is exactly that, opinion. There are so many factors in each persons mind to consider one over the other and be right.

[Luck is Good]

5 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Why do you say that? Is one player called the best over another because that's your opinion? It may not be someone's else's opinion and neither can be right because it is exactly that, opinion. There are so many factors in each persons mind to consider one over the other and be right.

No because it's fact. People talk about this stuff when it comes to the best ever. It's a fun debate. Especially for football and basketball

[2006Coltsbestever]

It is all opinion but if you can present a ton of facts to back up who you think that is the best that helps. Even if the Warriors go 16-0, I could still make a strong case for the 1987 Lakers, 1986 Celtics, and 1996 Bulls being better. I think the Warriors will drop at least one in Cleveland anyway.

[crazycolt1]

7 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

No because it's fact. People talk about this stuff when it comes to the best ever. It's a fun debate. Especially for football and basketball

It's fact?  No it's not because it is all opinion. You can debate till the end of time and no one would be 100% correct.

The million dollar question is when does debate turn into argument because no one is willing to adjust their opinion because that is what it is.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

It's fact?  No it's not because it is all opinion. You can debate till the end of time and no one would be 100% correct.

The million dollar question is when does debate turn into argument because no one is willing to adjust their opinion because that is what it is.

It's almost impossible to debate with LeBron fans because if you say anything negative about him you get blasted and called a hater. 21Superman is about the only on here that brings good facts to the table backing up why LeBron is the convo for GOAT. He has had a couple of different Posts that I liked regarding this. I can actually debate with him without it turning into something ridiculous. DGBill has also pointed out a few things about LeBron that I thought it was really strong.

[Luck is Good]

16 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is all opinion but if you can present a ton of facts to back up who you think that is the best that helps. Even if the Warriors go 16-0, I could still make a strong case for the 1987 Lakers, 1986 Celtics, and 1996 Bulls being better. I think the Warriors will drop at least one in Cleveland anyway.

You could still make a strong case for those teams but IF the Warriors do go 16-0 in the postseason, it's game on with who truly was the best team

[2006Coltsbestever]

54 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

You could still make a strong case for those teams but IF the Warriors do go 16-0 in the postseason, it's game on with who truly was the best team

I don't disagree at all, Warriors would have the undefeated record for a fact to back up there argument. I look at teams like the 87 Lakers, 86 Celtics, and 96 Bulls as teams that had the best player in the league on their teams at that time. Warriors don't have that, they do have Durant and Curry  but LeBron is the best player. I would say all-time one could make an argument for Durant and Curry both being Top 30 all-time players but Jordan, Magic, Bird are all Top 10 without debate, Jordan is the GOAT IMO.

[Luck is Good]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't disagree at all, Warriors would have the undefeated record for a fact to back up there argument. I look at teams like the 87 Lakers, 86 Celtics, and 96 Bulls as teams that had the best player in the league on their teams at that time. Warriors don't have that, they do have Durant and Curry  but LeBron is the best player. I would say all-time one could make an argument for Durant and Curry both being Top 30 all-time players but Jordan, Magic, Bird are all Top 10 without debate, Jordan is the GOAT IMO.

Jordan, Magic and Bird for sure. And I concur with Jordan as the best ever

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It is all opinion but if you can present a ton of facts to back up who you think that is the best that helps. Even if the Warriors go 16-0, I could still make a strong case for the 1987 Lakers, 1986 Celtics, and 1996 Bulls being better. I think the Warriors will drop at least one in Cleveland anyway.

I think this is the bottom line.  There are so many stats one could look at and you could skew them in so many different ways.  For example, I think LeBron has the most 30/5/5 playoff games in NBA history, but Jordan has more 35/5/5, 40/5/5, 45/5/5, etc.  One says Jordan is a better scorer and another counters by saying LeBron is a more complete player.  One says Jordan is a better defender and another counters by saying LeBron does more with less.  One says Jordan has the ultimate champion's assassin-like mentality and another counters by saying LeBron has made 7 consecutive Finals.  I don't think you'll ever get an objective answer on it, but it's sure fun to discuss and debate.

 

15 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't disagree at all, Warriors would have the undefeated record for a fact to back up there argument. I look at teams like the 87 Lakers, 86 Celtics, and 96 Bulls as teams that had the best player in the league on their teams at that time. Warriors don't have that, they do have Durant and Curry  but LeBron is the best player. I would say all-time one could make an argument for Durant and Curry both being Top 30 all-time players but Jordan, Magic, Bird are all Top 10 without debate, Jordan is the GOAT IMO.

Thank you for the kind words.  I reciprocate the sentiment.  It's been nice debating it with you since you present solid facts to back up your arguments as well.

[RockThatBlue]

Warriors would be  favored over 96 Bulls

 

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/19551501/golden-state-warriors-favored-1995-96-chicago-bulls?sf85532427=1

[Colts_Fan12]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

What a lot of people cant grasp for some reason is to why some people don't like LeBron, is the fact the media jams him down our throat 24/7. Not everyone likes hearing 24/7 how LeBron is the GOAT or 2nd behind Michael. I cant see how LeBron lovers cant see that side of it. Like I have said from the get go if he loses it wont be his fault at all to the people that love him. They will come up with every excuse imaginable to why the Cavs lost and wont blame him at all but yet the same people have him the GOAT or 2nd best. Back in the 80's when I followed the Lakers I never once made an excuse for Magic losing expect in 1989 because he got injured in Game 2 and couldn't play in Games 3 and 4. That is legit, LeBron is 100% healthy and Durant has outplayed him 2 games in a row now. When it comes to the Ring argument, of course it can be overrated. I mainly use it when it comes to Top 10-15 players of all-time period, that helps separate certain players. I don't use it when it comes to role players or say something silly like Trent Dilfer has a Ring and Marino doesn't - everyone knows Dilfer isn't anywhere near one of the greatest. Now if we are talking Marino/Peyton - that is different.

What I can't grasp is why the media talking about LeBron 24/7 takes away from his greatness it's not his fault. He just does his job exceptionally well so of course sports shows will talk about him. Maybe what you guys should do that don't like LBJ is ask yourselves why everyone is talking about him all the time ptolly has to do with the fact that he is way better then you all think. The more likely scenario is you that dislike him are wrong and the 50 or so sports experts are right about him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

20 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

What I can't grasp is why the media talking about LeBron 24/7 takes away from his greatness it's not his fault. He just does his job exceptionally well so of course sports shows will talk about him. Maybe what you guys should do that don't like LBJ is ask yourselves why everyone is talking about him all the time ptolly has to do with the fact that he is way better then you all think. The more likely scenario is you that dislike him are wrong and the 50 or so sports experts are right about him.

It doesn't take away from his greatness, I just don't buy he is a Top 5 player ever and it gets tiresome hearing about it. Many actually agree with me. Saying a player like Magic Johnson is better in no way should get a LeBron fan upset, A lot of people think Magic is better that don't work for ESPN. My dad thinks Wilt Chamberlain is by far the greatest player ever, I suppose he's a dope as well? Just because he thinks he's better than LeBron.

[2006Coltsbestever]

23 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Warriors would be  favored over 96 Bulls

 

http://www.espn.com/chalk/story/_/id/19551501/golden-state-warriors-favored-1995-96-chicago-bulls?sf85532427=1

I would love to see that matchup. MJ would have his hands full, Pippen and Rodman were great defenders though, that would be fun to watch.

[Colts_Fan12]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It doesn't take away from greatness, I just don't buy he is a Top 5 player ever and gets tiresome hearing about it. Many actually agree with me. Saying a player like Magic Johnson is better in no way should get a LeBron fan upset, A lot of people think Magic is better that don't work for ESPN. My dad thinks Wilt Chamberlain is by far the greatest player ever, I suppose he's a dope as well? Just because he thinks he's better than LeBron.

Your dad is just another casual fan like you hardly any one with credentials is gonna put magic or Shaq or Kobe ahead of him 

[2006Coltsbestever]

Let me pose this question, if LeBron should get a pass for losing to the Warriors because they are stacked, why doesn't Peyton get a pass for losing against the Pats in 2003 and 2004 in Foxboro? The Pats had a much better Defense and Brady was equivalent to Peyton + we played in crappy weather in those games. All I ever heard was how Peyton chokes. Everyone was all over Peyton for losing those games.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Let me pose this question, if LeBron should get a pass for losing to the Warriors because they are stacked, why doesn't Peyton get a pass for losing against the Pats in 2003 and 2004 in Foxboro? The Pats had a much better Defense and Brady was equivalent to Peyton + we played in crappy weather in those games. All I ever heard was how Peyton chokes. Everyone was all over Peyton for losing those games.

Peyton does imo he is the Goat he is 10 times the player Brady is not his fault Brady boy had better teams and he cheated 

[RockThatBlue]

7 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love to see that matchup. MJ would have his hands full, Pippen and Rodman were great defenders though, that would be fun to watch.

Warriors would win in my opinion. The Bulls (as great as they were) never faced an offense like the Warriors have. MJ would have to score 50+ points for the Bulls to even keep up.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Peyton does imo he is the Goat he is 10 times the player Brady is not his fault Brady boy had better teams and he cheated 

Yeah but people on ESPN don't give him a pass. When they talk GOAT stuff they always bring up Peyton's shortcomings in the Playoffs. I think it's nonsense but that is how analysts are.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Warriors would win in my opinion. The Bulls (as great as they were) never faced an offense like the Warriors have. MJ would have to score 50+ points for the Bulls to even keep up.

You may be right. By the way I hated the Bulls back then, I was sick of hearing Jordan GOAT talk too . Eventhough I really thought he was once he passed Magic in Championships.

[Colts_Fan12]

LeBron is basically Peyton he has to make the team around him better he has had to piggy back trash to championships before just like Peyton did carrying a team with a worthless D to the super bowls

[21isSuperman]

9 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Warriors would win in my opinion. The Bulls (as great as they were) never faced an offense like the Warriors have. MJ would have to score 50+ points for the Bulls to even keep up.

Jordan always played his best games when the lights were brightest.  I think it depends on what rules you play with.  If you go by the 90s rules where defenses can be more physical, then I think the Bulls would destroy this Warriors team.  If you play with today's rules, I think the Warriors win.  The game today is geared towards finesse, not physical, and the Warriors are built perfectly for that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

LeBron is basically Peyton he has to make the team around him better he has had to piggy back trash to championships before just like Peyton did carrying a team with a worthless D to the super bowls

LeBron's 1st stint in Cleveland, I agree 1000%. What he did in 2007 was unreal by getting the Cavs to the Finals. When LeBron was in Miami he was favored in every series played in the East and was favored in 2 of his 4 Finals.

[Colts_Fan12]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah but people on ESPN don't give him a pass. When they talk GOAT stuff they always bring up Peyton's shortcomings in the Playoffs. I think it's nonsense but that is how analysts are.

They all do the same thing some of you are to LeBron they look at stupid team stats and blame Peyton it's dumb Brady couldn't hold Peytons jock Brady gets his stats from the greatest coach ever system Peyton got his from his talent alone Dungy is a decent coach buy he didn't do % for Peyton Peyton was his own coach unlike man woman up in Boston 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

They all do the same thing some of you are to LeBron they look at stupid team stats and blame Peyton it's dumb Brady couldn't hold Peytons jock Brady gets his stats from the greatest coach ever system Peyton got his from his talent alone dingy is a decent coach buy he didn't do % for Peyton Peyton was his own coach unlike man woman up in Boston 

"Man woman"  That may be the quote of the day!

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

"Man woman"  That may be the quote of the day!

I hate that guy you have no idea lol

 

Hearing people say he is better then Peyton makes me wanna puke and I just laugh so hard cause there is no way in hell he is a better QB 

[RockThatBlue]

6 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Jordan always played his best games when the lights were brightest.  I think it depends on what rules you play with.  If you go by the 90s rules where defenses can be more physical, then I think the Bulls would destroy this Warriors team.  If you play with today's rules, I think the Warriors win.  The game today is geared towards finesse, not physical, and the Warriors are built perfectly for that.

True, but even under 90s rules the Warriors would still be great shooters. Curry would've been nailing 35+ footers back then too. Durant and Green are physical players by todays standards, and no one on the Bulls would've had a prayer of matching up against Durants athleticism. Klays game would be interesting to think about as a 90s player, but he has always been a pretty good 3pt shooter so I think he would've been mostly alright.