2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I hate that guy you have no idea lol

 

Hearing people say he is better then Peyton makes me wanna puke and I just laugh so hard cause there is no way in hell he is a better QB 

I hate him also, at least we agree on that.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, RockThatBlue said:

True, but even under 90s rules the Warriors would still be great shooters. Curry would've been nailing 35+ footers back then too. Durant and Green are physical players by todays standards, and no one on the Bulls would've had a prayer of matching up against Durants athleticism. Klays game would be interesting to think about as a 90s player, but he has always been a pretty good 3pt shooter so I think he would've been mostly alright. 

Bulls had an excellent Defensive team and great 3 point shooters too. Kerr and Kukoc at times were deadly from 3. It would be a great matchup, also who would have HCA?

[Luck is Good]

So we think Peyton is the GOAT and not Brady? But we can't say Jordan is the GOAT? Ok I don't even want to get into this lol

[Luck is Good]

All jokes aside, Warriors-Bulls would go 7 games

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

So we think Peyton is the GOAT and not Brady? But we can't say Jordan is the GOAT? Ok I don't even want to get into this lol

I don't either because it's going to make me puke to say Brady is . Everyone in here knows I have MANWOMAN #1 but I do have Peyton 3rd. Montana is at #2 IMO.

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't either because it's going to make me puke to say Brady is . Everyone in here knows I have MANWOMAN #1 but I do have Peyton 3rd. Montana is at #2 IMO.

I personally have Brady but I can't call out anyone that thinks Montana. That one is actually a debate

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I personally have Brady but I can't call out anyone that thinks Montana. That one is actually a debate

Yeah I have Peyton 3rd behind those 2. Peyton did win twice with 2 different teams + won 5 MVP's so he is Top 3. Brady and Montana are the ultimate winners in the SB era. Bradshaw was great on the big stage but doesn't have the Stats to measure up with those 3. Eventhough I have Peyton 3rd that doesn't mean I wouldn't take him 1st in an all-time Draft though. That discussion is a little different. Peyton could carry teams almost by himself at times.

[Luck is Good]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I have Peyton 3rd behind those 2. Peyton did win twice with 2 different teams + won 5 MVP's so he is Top 3. Brady and Montana are the ultimate winners in the SB era. Bradshaw was great on the big stage but doesn't have the Stats to measure up with those 3. Eventhough I have Peyton 3rd that doesn't mean I wouldn't take him 1st in an all-time Draft though. That discussion is a little different. Peyton could carry teams almost by himself at times.

Peyton is definitely top 5 all time. Those 4 QB's you mentioned have a combined 15 SB championships between them. They went 15-4 in SB's. Insane stuff

[Colts_Fan12]

17 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

So we think Peyton is the GOAT and not Brady? But we can't say Jordan is the GOAT? Ok I don't even want to get into this lol

Tell me what Brady is better at then Peyton 

[Colts_Fan12]

19 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't either because it's going to make me puke to say Brady is . Everyone in here knows I have MANWOMAN #1 but I do have Peyton 3rd. Montana is at #2 IMO.

Good thing Brady isn't better lol

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Tell me what Brady is better at then Peyton 

He's really not better, they are pretty even though and he's just won more in the Playoffs. I would take Peyton over him in an all-time Draft though.

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Tell me what Brady is better at then Peyton 

QB

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

Good thing Brady isn't better lol

Yeah because I felt puke coming up slowly when saying that.

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

QB

maybe if hell were to freeze over 

[Luck is Good]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

maybe if hell were to freeze over 

I already said I'm not going to get into this debate. You have your thought and I have mine

[Colts_Fan12]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

I already said I'm not going to get into this debate. You have your thought and I have mine

Sure I'll give you the LeBron MY one that's easily a debate cause MJ is great Brady wishes he had Peyton arm and brain 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Luck is Good said:

I already said I'm not going to get into this debate. You have your thought and I have mine

Yeah I don't like this debate either because I love Peyton. He is my favorite player of all-time, I hate Brady.

[Luck is Good]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I don't like this debate either because I love Peyton. He is my favorite player of all-time, I hate Brady.

I'm not a Brady fan myself but he's the man IMO

[Luck is Good]

9 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Sure I'll give you the LeBron MY one that's easily a debate cause MJ is great Brady wishes he had Peyton arm and brain 

We just differ on these. I don't believe LeBron can ever be Jordan. That's because I don't think anyone will ever be Jordan. And to football, you think Peyton is the best QB of all time over Montana as well?

[Colts_Fan12]

13 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah I don't like this debate either because I love Peyton. He is my favorite player of all-time, I hate Brady.

Yeah Peyton is behind only Reggie Miller for me and Brady can kiss my @** for all I care that whiney little + 

[Colts_Fan12]

2 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

We just differ on these. I don't believe LeBron can ever be Jordan. That's because I don't think anyone will ever be Jordan. And to football, you think Peyton is the best QB of all time over Montana as well?

Yup most definalty I don't look at championships or wins I just look at talent and who plays the position the best that is Peyton by a land slide he is way smarter then either Montana or Girly man and can do more with less then the others as well Brady got hurt and the patriot machine kept going we lose Peyton and we get the first overall pick 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yeah Peyton is behind only Reggie Miller for me and Brady can kiss my @** forfor all I care that whiney little + 

 You have me rolling today. Yeah Peyton is my favorite player and I loved Reggie as well. Sucks Reggie never got a Ring!

[Colts_Fan12]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

 You have me rolling today. Yeah Peyton is my favorite player and I loved Reggie as well. Sucks Reggie never got a Ring!

That was cause of the D bag pistons I will forever hate that team 

[Luck is Good]

Just now, Colts_Fan12 said:

That was cause of the D bag pistons I will forever hate that team 

I do agree here. That brawl was instigated by Ben Wallace. He was all * off that the Pacers were beating them like a red headed step child. He decided to take offense to Artest and the rest is history

[Luck is Good]

5 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Yup most definalty I don't look at championships or wins I just look at talent and who plays the position the best that is Peyton by a land slide he is way smarter then either Montana or Girly man and can do more with less then the others as well Brady got hurt and the patriot machine kept going we lose Peyton and we get the first overall pick 

If we're deciding on who is a better player at a certain position, championships have to be part of the conversation. However, that doesn't mean that QB's with less championships aren't considered great players

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

That was cause of the D bag pistons I will forever hate that team 

Yeah that sucked, Ben Wallace started the whole thing because we were kicking their butt, then Stern suspends our players for games and for the season and the Pistons got a slap on the wrist. The league should've allowed Artest to play in the Playoffs. If someone throws a beer on anyone, you are going to react - that is just instinct.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

If we're deciding on who is a better player at a certain position, championships have to be part of the conversation. However, that doesn't mean that QB's with less championships aren't considered great players

I think it factors in too, that is what players play for. I would agree with Colts12 in saying Peyton is the better talent though, so was Marino and he never won 1.

[Colts_Fan12]

25 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

If we're deciding on who is a better player at a certain position, championships have to be part of the conversation. However, that doesn't mean that QB's with less championships aren't considered great players

Honestly there is no reason to bring team accomplishments into player debates if I'm trying to say the colts are the greatest franchise of all time then sure by all means bring in championships and playoff wins but thats not what I'm arguing I'm arguing that Peyton is the best QB his play shows that no matter how many times his team has let him down in the playoffs 

[Luck is Good]

6 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Honestly there is no reason to bring team accomplishments into player debates if I'm trying to say the colts are the greatest franchise of all time then sure by all means bring in championships and playoff wins but thats not what I'm arguing I'm arguing that Peyton is the best QB his play shows that no matter how many times his team has let him down in the playoffs 

You know as well as I do that championships will always be brought up in that type of argument though. If we're talking about said player, a person will ask about number of championships. I don't think it's the above all be all, but I'd be lying if I said I didn't think championships were the most important stat

[2006Coltsbestever]

Some people are saying the Warriors are ruining Basketball, I could also argue this is a blessing in disguise because this proves team play is more important than the best player in the game. No 1 guy is bigger than the game, not LeBron, not Jordan, not Magic, etc.. There is not 1 LeBron fan that would be complaining had Durant went to Cleveland but since he went to the Warriors they are ruining Basketball in their minds?? I have been there because when LeBron went to Miami to join Wade and Bosh I was like WTH! I thought they would win the Championship there 1st year together. How the Mavs beat them was nothing short of a miracle. That is one of the biggest upsets of all-time. Miami was even up 2-1 with HCA. Anyway Miami went on to win the next 2 years proving my point at that time. It is what it is for now, Cavs got their 1 last season so Cleveland isn't Championshipless. Don't be shocked if the Cavs do go on and lose this that they make huge moves in the offseason. CP3 may even go there? He and LeBron are real good friends. Danny Gilbert doesn't seem to mind going way over the Cap so nothing would shock me.

[Chrisaaron1023]

33 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Some people are saying the Warriors are ruining Basketball, I could also argue this is a blessing in disguise because this proves team play is more important than the best player in the game. No 1 guy is bigger than the game, not LeBron, not Jordan, not Magic, etc.. There is not 1 LeBron fan that would be complaining had Durant went to Cleveland but since he went to the Warriors they are ruining Basketball in their minds?? I have been there because when LeBron went to Miami to join Wade and Bosh I was like WTH! I thought they would win the Championship there 1st year together. How the Mavs beat them was nothing short of a miracle. That is one of the biggest upsets of all-time. Miami was even up 2-1 with HCA. Anyway Miami went on to win the next 2 years proving my point at that time. It is what it is for now, Cavs got their 1 last season so Cleveland isn't Championshipless. Don't be shocked if the Cavs do go on and lose this that they make huge moves in the offseason. CP3 may even go there? He and LeBron are real good friends. Danny Gilbert doesn't seem to mind going way over the Cap so nothing would shock me.

History repeating itself? In 2013 the heat got mad lucky (although I was rooting for them) when they beat Spurs in 7. Spurs came back the next year and pasted them in 5. Miami had already reached its potential, couldn't really do anything to get better. LeBron goes and teams up with Kyrie and Love (probably should've kept Wiggins). Same would happen this year. Except Bron won't leave, but they'll def be big changes.

[oldunclemark]

10 hours ago, aaron11 said:

when we talk about market size that list is what i go by

 

Chicago and Milwaukee are not included together, but new york and jersey are

 

they use statistics to put this together and im a stats guy by nature

I hear you...but the original point is: What's a small market and what's not.

When we talk about free agents coming here...We call Indy a small market and its smaller than Oakland, where the No.1 free agent went last year.  Oak-SF-San Jose is a media market..but the Warriors play in Oakland

Oakland and SF are very didfferent markets when it comes to the NFL and MLB

LBJ went to Cleveland.....I know it was his home..but he did go

I think market size is wildly overrated when used as a reason players go where.

 

Would you be shocked if Gordon Hayward came to 'small market' Indianapolis??

I would not

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

History repeating itself? In 2013 the heat got mad lucky (although I was rooting for them) when they beat Spurs in 7. Spurs came back the next year and pasted them in 5. Miami had already reached its potential, couldn't really do anything to get better. LeBron goes and teams up with Kyrie and Love (probably should've kept Wiggins). Same would happen this year. Except Bron won't leave, but they'll def be big changes.

LeBron isn't leaving a team where he is the GM and has an owner that will go way over the Cap to bring in Stars. This offseason will be interesting.

[chad72]

3 hours ago, Luck is Good said:

All jokes aside, Warriors-Bulls would go 7 games

 

Not if they don't allow hand checking like today, Warriors would wrap up in 6 at worst.

 

If they allowed hand checking, Pippen would harass any point guard that brought the ball up (remember how he did it to Mark Jackson???), Ron Harper would grab and check all day and Jordan would too, and the Bulls would win in 6. That, singularly, was the reason the Cavs beat the Warriors last year even though the Warriors team was favored, because hand checking suddenly was allowed, much like holding and grabbing gets allowed in the NFL playoffs more often than not. This year, it is back to the touch fouls and no hand checking again.

 

Same case with Larry Brown and the long armed Detroit Pistons with the long arms of Rasheed Wallace, Tayshawn Prince and Ben Wallace hard to get past with their pressure D, they let them play. They are not letting folks play D in the professional league like they do even in college, IMO, and if I were to change something, I would definitely let them play a bit with some level of hand checking allowed. When the Pistons were allowed to do that, they demolished the Lakers and when they started calling it more, the Spurs won in 7 vs the Pistons the next year.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, chad72 said:

 

Not if they don't allow hand checking like today, Warriors would wrap up in 6 at worst.

 

If they allowed hand checking, Pippen would harass any point guard that brought the ball up (remember how he did it to Mark Jackson???), Ron Harper would grab and check all day and Jordan would too, and the Bulls would win in 6. That, singularly, was the reason the Cavs beat the Warriors last year even though the Warriors team was favored, because hand checking suddenly was allowed, much like holding and grabbing gets allowed in the NFL playoffs more often than not. This year, it is back to the touch fouls and no hand checking again.

 

Same case with Larry Brown and the long armed Detroit Pistons with the long arms of Rasheed Wallace, Tayshawn Prince and Ben Wallace hard to get past with their pressure D, they let them play. They are not letting folks play D in the professional league like they do even in college, IMO, and if I were to change something, I would definitely let them play a bit with some level of hand checking allowed. When the Pistons were allowed to do that, they demolished the Lakers and when they started calling it more, the Spurs won in 7 vs the Pistons the next year.

 

Man I am so glad you brought up the 2004 Finals. The Pistons got away with murder in those Finals. That was brutally officiated. They let the Pistons get away with everything and play aggressive.

[dgambill]

22 hours ago, oldunclemark said:

Father Time is undefeated.....

Its hard to admit what we're seeing......that LeBron has gotten old...

Yeah...father time is kicking his butt...James only avg like 28 pts 12 asts and 10rebs. He's done...might as well retire right? James is DEFINITELY not the problem with Cleveland. Father Time isn't kickin his butt the machine that is the GS Warriors is. I don't feel sorry for him he did pick his team but what the heck is wrong with Tristen Thompson...he is avg like 4 rebs...no put backs giving them nothing..JR Smith non-existent. Kyrie and Kevin only playing well on opposite nights...when Like a 36 yr old Richard Jefferson is basically playing better than anyone not named Lebron you know you got problems. The issue is what it always is....the Cavs are OLD. Outside Kyrie and Lebron they have no athletic playmakers. You trade or let go of all your younger players like Wiggens, Dion Waiters, Mozgoff, and Della and you replace with Love, Korver, Williams, Richardson and Frye don't be surprised you look slow. You cant keep trading draft picks and signing old guys. GS actually still has youth on that team....they have some older guys but they drafted their core and then they still young controllable guys coming off the bench. Cavs need to start keeping their draft picks or they will never get past the west. GS just plays at a whole different pace that the Cavs can't match. The reason GS could afford KD was because they had so many original draft picks on team friendly deals....CLE just over pays veteren assassins. Your going to watch Cleveland really have issues in the next year or two...they will have to trade Love for some youth if they want to retool because it will be just like Miami...you have a window with those superstars but as they age and get expensive you can't fill in the rest of the team. Lebron will have to reboot again in a new city. Lebron is in his prime but this team isn't as good as last years....defensively and rebounding definitely not...they need some young athleticism.

[dgambill]

55 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

History repeating itself? In 2013 the heat got mad lucky (although I was rooting for them) when they beat Spurs in 7. Spurs came back the next year and pasted them in 5. Miami had already reached its potential, couldn't really do anything to get better. LeBron goes and teams up with Kyrie and Love (probably should've kept Wiggins). Same would happen this year. Except Bron won't leave, but they'll def be big changes.

I agree...watch them shop Love and JR. If they bring in a guy like Carmelo then nothing will change but if they are smart they will get some athletic 3-D type guys or someone that can get their own shot. They need to keep their draft picks and develop some guys. I agree they should have kept Wiggins...traded youth and great athleticism that would be hitting his stride just as Lebron was at peak. Cleveland doesn't have a lot of options to get better outside connning some team into a lopsided trade. Wouldn't be surprised to see Cleveland trade Love for Carmelo and asset then move JR and try to sign Wade after Lebron convinces him to opt out or something. Lebron needs to have some patience and help train some youth to help carry him in his remaining years as the old man show won't put him over the top except in the East which is devoid of talent.

[BleedBlu8792]

On 6/4/2017 at 7:24 PM, Luck is Good said:

It's considered a small market, but they've won many championships. And with Chris Paul there next year, the chance to get more is significantly better

 

No it's not, and never has been. It's a misconception that people continually regurgitate without researching. They have ~1.5MIL in population and are one of the most diverse cities (culturally) in the US. San Antonio is very much a large market.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Regarding Andrew Wiggins, Cavs made a huge mistake trading him. I even said it when it first happened.

[21isSuperman]

4 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

True, but even under 90s rules the Warriors would still be great shooters. Curry would've been nailing 35+ footers back then too. Durant and Green are physical players by todays standards, and no one on the Bulls would've had a prayer of matching up against Durants athleticism. Klays game would be interesting to think about as a 90s player, but he has always been a pretty good 3pt shooter so I think he would've been mostly alright. 

I think their shooting is all they'd have.  The Bulls would have physicality, rebounding, and Jordan's mentality is one I've seen in only a handful of players across any sport ever.  If it's today's rules where physicality isn't as much of an asset, advantage Warriors.  If it's 90's rules where you can pretty much start a fight and continue playing, Bulls win easily.