2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread

[Luck is Good]

29 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

No it's not, and never has been. It's a misconception that people continually regurgitate without researching. They have ~1.5MIL in population and are one of the most diverse cities (culturally) in the US. San Antonio is very much a large market.

It's considered a small market in the NBA

[Luck is Good]

1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Not if they don't allow hand checking like today, Warriors would wrap up in 6 at worst.

 

If they allowed hand checking, Pippen would harass any point guard that brought the ball up (remember how he did it to Mark Jackson???), Ron Harper would grab and check all day and Jordan would too, and the Bulls would win in 6. That, singularly, was the reason the Cavs beat the Warriors last year even though the Warriors team was favored, because hand checking suddenly was allowed, much like holding and grabbing gets allowed in the NFL playoffs more often than not. This year, it is back to the touch fouls and no hand checking again.

 

Same case with Larry Brown and the long armed Detroit Pistons with the long arms of Rasheed Wallace, Tayshawn Prince and Ben Wallace hard to get past with their pressure D, they let them play. They are not letting folks play D in the professional league like they do even in college, IMO, and if I were to change something, I would definitely let them play a bit with some level of hand checking allowed. When the Pistons were allowed to do that, they demolished the Lakers and when they started calling it more, the Spurs won in 7 vs the Pistons the next year.

 

I agree with everything here except when you say they let college basketball players play more defense than the NBA. I watch a lot of college basketball and that officiating is god awful. Most games are called with ticky tack fouls and it just drives me crazy. That national championship game between Gonzaga and UNC had a combined 13 fouls in the first six minutes of the 2nd half. That's ridiculous

[BleedBlu8792]

Just now, Luck is Good said:

It's considered a small market in the NBA

 

Again, you're repeating some nonsense you overheard and believed it. It's the 7th largest city in the US. It's bigger than Dallas, to which you probably believe is a "large market", which is true. The whole San Antonio is a small market is bullsht...

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, dgambill said:

I agree...watch them shop Love and JR. If they bring in a guy like Carmelo then nothing will change but if they are smart they will get some athletic 3-D type guys or someone that can get their own shot. They need to keep their draft picks and develop some guys. I agree they should have kept Wiggins...traded youth and great athleticism that would be hitting his stride just as Lebron was at peak. Cleveland doesn't have a lot of options to get better outside connning some team into a lopsided trade. Wouldn't be surprised to see Cleveland trade Love for Carmelo and asset then move JR and try to sign Wade after Lebron convinces him to opt out or something. Lebron needs to have some patience and help train some youth to help carry him in his remaining years as the old man show won't put him over the top except in the East which is devoid of talent.

If the Cavs had Wiggins their chances would be a lot better. They wouldn't have Love though but I still think having Wiggins could've preserved LeBron's energy and he's a guy that can create his own shot and is very athletic. IMO the Cavs would've won last season without Love anyway. I am not hating on Love because I think he's been good in these Finals but the Cavs do lack athleticism outside of LeBron and Kyrie. Not sure what JR's problem is? He seems not into it. Kyle Korver's lack of production is shocking too. I thought for sure in 1 of those first 2 games he would have a game with 4 or 5 3's. For as much as people think I hate LeBron or the Cavs, I am one of the very few that had this going 7 games and even had the Cavs winning last night FWIW.

[aaron11]

9 hours ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

Again, you're repeating some nonsense you overheard and believed it. It's the 7th largest city in the US. It's bigger than Dallas, to which you probably believe is a "large market", which is true. The whole San Antonio is a small market is bullsht...

24th going by metro area, dont know where you got 7th from

 

dallas is 4th

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

 

even if you consider 24th to be "large" that proves my point further about small market teams

[BleedBlu8792]

2 hours ago, aaron11 said:

24th going by metro area, dont know where you got 7th from

 

dallas is 4th

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

 

even if you consider 24th to be "large" that proves my point further about small market teams

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

 

That's raw population, not adding in extra nonsense adjacent/adjoining counties and is also among the fastest growing cities as well. 

[Luck is Good]

42 minutes ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

 

That's raw population, not adding in extra nonsense adjacent/adjoining counties and is also among the fastest growing cities as well. 

That's true but it's not looked at like that when determining how big of a market. The entire metropolitan area comes into the equation

[aaron11]

1 hour ago, BleedBlu8792 said:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_cities_by_population

 

That's raw population, not adding in extra nonsense adjacent/adjoining counties and is also among the fastest growing cities as well. 

its not non sense, metro area is a much better metric

 

it makes the most sense

 

city limits alone is very misleading and not representative of the real market size

[aaron11]

 if the san antiono is considered to be a big market however you rank them, that just proves my point further

 

in that case, Cleveland is the only small market to win since the 1970s and james is from there

[Colts_Fan12]

It's not just market size it's weather too sure GS may be considered a "small market" but it's in California not cold @** Indiana that's why no one cares to come here or like Memphis that place is boring as hell for a superstar. 

[Luck is Good]

56 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

It's not just market size it's weather too sure GS may be considered a "small market" but it's in California not cold @** Indiana that's why no one cares to come here or like Memphis that place is boring as hell for a superstar. 

Who wouldn't want to play in California? But Warriors are considered a big market because Oakland is part of the Bay Area metropolitan area

[RockThatBlue]

17 hours ago, dgambill said:

Yeah...father time is kicking his butt...James only avg like 28 pts 12 asts and 10rebs. He's done...might as well retire right? James is DEFINITELY not the problem with Cleveland. Father Time isn't kickin his butt the machine that is the GS Warriors is. I don't feel sorry for him he did pick his team but what the heck is wrong with Tristen Thompson...he is avg like 4 rebs...no put backs giving them nothing..JR Smith non-existent. Kyrie and Kevin only playing well on opposite nights...when Like a 36 yr old Richard Jefferson is basically playing better than anyone not named Lebron you know you got problems. The issue is what it always is....the Cavs are OLD. Outside Kyrie and Lebron they have no athletic playmakers. You trade or let go of all your younger players like Wiggens, Dion Waiters, Mozgoff, and Della and you replace with Love, Korver, Williams, Richardson and Frye don't be surprised you look slow. You cant keep trading draft picks and signing old guys. GS actually still has youth on that team....they have some older guys but they drafted their core and then they still young controllable guys coming off the bench. Cavs need to start keeping their draft picks or they will never get past the west. GS just plays at a whole different pace that the Cavs can't match. The reason GS could afford KD was because they had so many original draft picks on team friendly deals....CLE just over pays veteren assassins. Your going to watch Cleveland really have issues in the next year or two...they will have to trade Love for some youth if they want to retool because it will be just like Miami...you have a window with those superstars but as they age and get expensive you can't fill in the rest of the team. Lebron will have to reboot again in a new city. Lebron is in his prime but this team isn't as good as last years....defensively and rebounding definitely not...they need some young athleticism.

I agree. LeBron is playing great, hes just getting very little help 

[Lucky Colts Fan]

On 6/5/2017 at 3:27 PM, crazycolt1 said:

There is no best player ever in any sport. There is no Goat in any sport either.

It's all opinion and everyone's opinion is different. You may not agree with anyone else's opinion but that don't mean yours is right either.

With the GOAT talk all the so called eras, positions and or ifs enter the picture. It's all subjective at best.

 

You're probably right, and I'm too lazy to research this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some obscure individual sport, like archery, or womens' shot-put, where there really is an undisputed GOAT.

 

Aren't Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps the most accomplished athletes in the history of their respective sport?  

[2006Coltsbestever]

26 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You're probably right, and I'm too lazy to research this myself, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some obscure individual sport, like archery, or womens' shot-put, where there really is an undisputed GOAT.

 

Aren't Usain Bolt and Michael Phelps the most accomplished athletes in the history of their respective sport?  

Yeah it would be extremely tough to argue against Michael Phelps not being the best Olympic swimmer of all-time. I don't see 1 debate that could say he isn't. Mark Spitz isn't even close to what Phelps has accomplished.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Regarding Basketball, Jordan to me is clearly the GOAT but of course I guess one could debate it but 6-0 in Finals, 6 Finals MVP's, and 5 League MVP's are tough to top. People can say Russell has 11 Championships but Jordan won his in the modern era and had to win more series to win his. Russell won 8 of those by only having to win 2 series. At least in Football regarding QB's when people label Tom the GOAT because he has 5-2 Rings over Peyton, one could come back with Peyton has 5 League MVP's to Tom's 2 and Peyton still currently has the better all-time Stats with more Yards and TD's.

[RockThatBlue]

Who is the greatest NBA player to not win an NBA championship? Reggie Miller has to be on the list.

[2006Coltsbestever]

4 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Who is the greatest NBA player to not win an NBA championship? Reggie Miller has to be on the list.

Reggie is on the list. I would say Karl Malone is though. Karl is the 2nd all-time Leading Scorer in NBA history. He actually could've beat Kareem's record had he played 1 or 2 more seasons but he chose to retire. Only reason he doesn't have a Ring is because the Jazz played Jordan 2 years in a row in the Finals.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

25 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Who is the greatest NBA player to not win an NBA championship? Reggie Miller has to be on the list.

 

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Reggie is on the list. I would say Karl Malone is though. Karl is the 2nd all-time Leading Scorer in NBA history. He actually could've beat Kareem's record had he played 1 or 2 more seasons but he chose to retire. Only reason he doesn't have a Ring is because the Jazz played Jordan 2 years in a row in the Finals.

 

Reggie is my #1.  Kah Malown (I believe that's the correct pronunciation) is up there, probably #2.  John Stockton?

[2006Coltsbestever]

All I can say is 2 more wins for the Warriors and the LeBron GOAT talk stops.,

-Jordan 6 Championships, Magic 5 Championships, LeBron 3 Championships.

-Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, Magic 3 Finals MVP's, LeBron 3 Finals MVP's - Magic and LeBron are tied here.

-Jordan 5 League MVP's, Magic 3 League MVP's, LeBron 4 League MVP's - he only has Magic by 1 here.

-Jordan 6 Finals appearance's, Magic 9 Finals appearances, LeBron 8 Finals appearances - Magic has LeBron by 1 here.

 

*These are the main criteria people look at like it or not. Finals and League MVP's are individual awards so they weigh heavily to people that discredit Championships and Magic and LeBron are almost even there, Jordan wins out. The Championships and appearances are more team accomplishments but still huge in ranking players. Magic Johnson in 12 seasons has had a better career than LeBron in reality if the Cavs do lose this.

 

-Some people can say LeBron could be League MVP every year and have more than 4, technically Magic could've too. Magic didn't because Larry Bird and Michael Jordan won MVP a combined 4 times when Magic was in his prime. Magic could've had way more too but he played in an era where there were 2 other players = 1 who was the GOAT, the other borderline Top 5 of all-time.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

All I can say is 2 more wins for the Warriors and the LeBron GOAT talk stops.,

-Jordan 6 Championships, Magic 5 Championships, LeBron 3 Championships.

-Jordan 6 Finals MVP's, Magic 3 Finals MVP's, LeBron 3 Finals MVP's - Magic and LeBron are tied here.

-Jordan 5 League MVP's, Magic 3 League MVP's, LeBron 4 League MVP's - he only has Magic by 1 here.

-Jordan 6 Finals appearance's, Magic 9 Finals appearances, LeBron 8 Finals appearances - Magic has LeBron by 1 here.

 

*These are the main criteria people look at like it or not. Finals and League MVP's are individual awards so they weigh heavily to people that discredit Championships and Magic and LeBron are almost even there, Jordan wins out. The Championships and appearances are more team accomplishments but still huge in ranking players. Magic Johnson in 12 seasons has had a better career than LeBron in reality if the Cavs do lose this.

 

-Some people can say LeBron could be League MVP every year and have more than 4, technically Magic could've too. Magic didn't because Larry Bird and Michael Jordan won MVP a combined 4 times when Magic was in his prime. Magic could've had way more too but he played in an era where there were 2 other players = 1 who was the GOAT, the other borderline Top 5 of all-time.

When did this become LeBron' s last year did he announce he was done after this and I misses it? 

[2006Coltsbestever]

29 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

When did this become LeBron' s last year did he announce he was done after this and I misses it? 

No I am just saying as of now. If LeBron doesn't win another Finals MVP or League MVP or Championship which he may not, then my Post has a lot validity to it. Keep in my mind Magic accomplished all of that in 12 seasons. This is LeBron's 14th season.

[RockThatBlue]

Does anyone want the Pacers to re sign Teague?

[Colts_Fan12]

24 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No I am just saying as of now. If LeBron doesn't win another Finals MVP or League MVP or Championship which he may not, then my Post has a lot validity to it. Keep in my mind Magic accomplished all of that in 12 seasons. This is LeBron's 14th season.

If they voted on actual stats and looked at performance LBJ would prolly be MAP this year thatsvthe truth 

[Luck is Good]

4 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Who is the greatest NBA player to not win an NBA championship? Reggie Miller has to be on the list.

Allen Iverson

[Luck is Good]

Jordan is clearly the best ever when talking basketball. I just don't see how he's not. 6-0 in Finals, 6 Finals MVP's and none of those series went 7 games. That's insane. No one will ever top that

[2006Coltsbestever]

17 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

If they voted on actual stats and looked at performance LBJ would prolly be MAP this year thatsvthe truth 

Russell Westbrook had 42 TDB's and averaged a TDB, he deserves League MVP - that award is based on Regular Season only. Westbrook had a history breaking year. His team also won 47 games if someone even wanted to say the Thunder weren't winning. If Westbrook doesn't win MVP, there should be a league investigation  

[Myles]

26 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Does anyone want the Pacers to re sign Teague?

I think they need to.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

Jordan is clearly the best ever when talking basketball. I just don't see how he's not. 6-0 in Finals, 6 Finals MVP's and none of those series went 7 games. That's insane. No one will ever top that

I agree, I think Magic is 2nd as well and that is more debatable but what he accomplished in 12 seasons was unreal. Magic also had over 10,000 Assists in 12 seasons which is off the charts. Magic's Stats in the end wont measure up to players like Kareem or LeBron because those players have played a lot longer. So they have longevity on him and on Jordan but at their peaks we know who the better players were. I would take Magic over Kareem. Magic won Finals MVP in his Rookie season, I will guarantee that will never happen again. Someone will score 100 Points in a game like Wilt Did before they win Finals MVP as a rookie.

[Luck is Good]

2 minutes ago, Myles said:

I think they need to.  

Absolutely

[Luck is Good]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree, I think Magic is 2nd as well and that is more debatable but what he accomplished in 12 seasons was unreal. Magic also had over 10,000 Assists in 12 seasons which is off the charts. Magic Stats in the end wont measure up to players like Kareem or LeBron because those players have played a lot longer. So they have longevity on him and on Jordan but at their peaks we know who the better players were. I would take Magic over Kareem.

I would take Magic over anyone not named Michael Jordan

[Colts_Fan12]

54 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Russell Westbrook had 42 TDB's and averaged a TDB, he deserves League MVP - that award is based on Regular Season only. Westbrook had a history breaking year. His team also won 47 games if someone even wanted to say the Thunder weren't winning. If Westbrook doesn't win MVP, there should be a league investigation  

Sure he avg a tbd but his efficiency is trash 

[Luck is Good]

4 minutes ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Sure he avg a tbd but his efficiency is trash 

This. Sure he could score 40 points but it'd be on 50 shots. That's just not acceptable from a PG

[21isSuperman]

1 hour ago, Luck is Good said:

Allen Iverson

Ewing.  Steve Nash.

[Luck is Good]

Just now, 21isSuperman said:

Ewing.  Steve Nash.

There's a good bunch

[Colts_Fan12]

42 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

This. Sure he could score 40 points but it'd be on 50 shots. That's just not acceptable from a PG

Most definitely he annoys me because he shoots 500 times a game 

[crazycolt1]

7 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Regarding Basketball, Jordan to me is clearly the GOAT but of course I guess one could debate it but 6-0 in Finals, 6 Finals MVP's, and 5 League MVP's are tough to top. People can say Russell has 11 Championships but Jordan won his in the modern era and had to win more series to win his. Russell won 8 of those by only having to win 2 series. At least in Football regarding QB's when people label Tom the GOAT because he has 5-2 Rings over Peyton, one could come back with Peyton has 5 League MVP's to Tom's 2 and Peyton still currently has the better all-time Stats with more Yards and TD's.

On the other side of the coin Jordan played in an era where no one was allowed to play defense on him. A large percentage of his points came from the foul line. Russell played in an era where defenders owned the paint and players got pounded when they reached the paint. Not to mention Russell had to face Wilt too.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, Luck is Good said:

This. Sure he could score 40 points but it'd be on 50 shots. That's just not acceptable from a PG

He shoots a lot but that still has nothing to do with him averaging 10 Rebounds and 10 Assists a game. He's the #1 Scoring option on that team and still averaged 10 Assists - not bad for a ball hog. I am just saying for this season that if he doesn't win League MVP something is wrong. Harden led the league in Turnovers and flops a lot, it sure shouldn't be him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

47 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

On the other side of the coin Jordan played in an era where no one was allowed to play defense on him. A large percentage of his points came from the foul line. Russell played in an era where defenders owned the paint and players got pounded when they reached the paint. Not to mention Russell had to face Wilt too.

Great points but still to win Championships back then you only had to win 2 series. I don't think Russell has 11 if he has to win 4 series every year. Other than Wilt, Russell was superior to every other big man back then too.

[Colts_Fan12]

4 hours ago, RockThatBlue said:

Does anyone want the Pacers to re sign Teague?

Nah not really. PG is either getting traded or leaving for nothing rather not have an expensive * Teague contract holding us down 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Great points but still to win Championships back then you only had to win 2 series. I don't think Russell has 11 if he has to win 4 series every year. Other than Wilt, Russell was superior to every other big man back then too.

You are more than likely right but I also have to keep in mind that Boston had the best teams money could buy back in those days .

Russell was teamed with Sam Jones, Tom Heinsohn, K C Jones, Satch Sanders, John Havlicek, Frank Ramsey and Bob Cousy. All were hall of famers. If you took that type of talent they would give pretty much any team in history a run for their money.

Add Bill Sharman and Don Nelson, two more hall of famers to the list that played for the Celtics while Russell was there.