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2017-2018 Indiana Pacers and Everything NBA Thread


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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It could I guess, then can I say the Cavs are ruining the league lmao LeBron started all this garbage back in 2010 by going to Miami. No LeBron fan as any right jumping Durant's rear end for going to Golden St when their precious God went to Miami and then he left there to go back to Cleveland because he knew Wade was getting old and Kyrie was just getting great. People would have you believe he just retuned to Cleveland because that is home and he owed those people that. Trust me, if the Cavs didn't have Kyrie and young promising Roster he would've stayed in sunny Florida.

 

Yeah, LeBron is one in a long line (Rodman, Shaq, etc) of superstars to move to a team with another superstar to try win a championship, but I think his ties to Cleveland made it that much worse for their fans.

 

If he hadn't gone back and won a championship for Cleveland, he would be the poster-child for all of this.  Nobody would have blinked about Durant.

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5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

It could I guess, then can I say the Cavs are ruining the league lmao LeBron started all this garbage back in 2010 by going to Miami. No LeBron fan as any right jumping Durant's rear end for going to Golden St when their precious God went to Miami and then he left there to go back to Cleveland because he knew Wade was getting old and Kyrie was just getting great. People would have you believe he just retuned to Cleveland because that is home and he owed those people that. Trust me, if the Cavs didn't have Kyrie and young promising Roster he would've stayed in sunny Florida.

Huge difference.  LeBron left a team with no help to go to another team that was only 8 games above .500.  Durant left a team with another superstar, and a team whose epic playoff collapse he greatly contributed to.  He went from a contender to a contender that beat him.  LeBron gave Cleveland everything he had while they gave him no on-court talent in return.  Durant was one game away from the Finals on a team with another superstar.

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2 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Yeah, LeBron is one in a long line (Rodman, Shaq, etc) of superstars to move to a team with another superstar to try win a championship, but I think his ties to Cleveland made it that much worse for their fans.

 

If he hadn't gone back and won a championship for Cleveland, he would be the poster-child for all of this.  Nobody would have blinked about Durant.

Other Stars have left such as Shaq which is a great example but Shaq didn't join a super team when he joined the Lakers. The Lakers were decent but Kobe had just got drafted and Kobe wasn't even that good his rookie season, Phil wasn't Coach yet either. So it wasn't like Shaq joined a prime Kobe and Phil. Shaq actually left a better team in Orlando to join LA. He wanted to live in LA because of acting and rapping opportunities more than anything. Players like Jordan, Magic, and Bird never left their original teams to join up with others. Imagine if Jordan would've said - hell I cant beat the Celtics or Pistons so I am going to LA and play with Magic. I mean that would've so insane that it would've ruined the league. I often look at a player like Karl Malone and feel bad for him because he gave his blood and guts to Utah for 18 seasons and came up ringless. He could've easily joined the Bulls in the mid 90's and won 3 or 4 Championships but he didn't. Yeah he went to LA when he was 40 but he was old and out of his prime. 

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14 minutes ago, 21isSuperman said:

Huge difference.  LeBron left a team with no help to go to another team that was only 8 games above .500.  Durant left a team with another superstar, and a team whose epic playoff collapse he greatly contributed to.  He went from a contender to a contender that beat him.  LeBron gave Cleveland everything he had while they gave him no on-court talent in return.  Durant was one game away from the Finals on a team with another superstar.

I disagree but I respect your opinion. LeBron knew by joining Wade and Bosh with Pat Riley running the show that there was no way he wasn't going to win Championships. Durant joining the Warriors in no way guarantee's a Championship because they still have to play and beat LeBron's Cavs. Many people picked the Cavs to win this by the way. When I say many here are some huge names = Both Mike's on Mike and Mike, Marcellus Wiley on Sports Nation, and Jacoby on Jalen/Jacoby show. Those are 4 huge ESPN Names. Also a lot of fans in general picked the Cavs on ESPN chat boards. So it's not like everyone thought the Warriors were unbeatable. I even had it, still have it going 7. Shannon Sharpe also picked the Cavs on undisputed, there are at least 5 more guys I can name that picked the Cavs.

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2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Other Stars have left such as Shaq which is a great example but Shaq didn't join a super team when he joined the Lakers. The Lakers were decent but Kobe had just got drafted and Kobe wasn't even that good his rookie season, Phil wasn't Coach yet either. So it wasn't like Shaq joined a prime Kobe and Phil. Shaq actually left a better team in Orlando to join LA. He wanted to live in LA because of acting and rapping opportunities more than anything. Players like Jordan, Magic, and Bird never left their original teams to join up with others. Imagine if Jordan would've said - hell I cant beat the Celtics or Pistons so I am going to LA and play with Magic. I mean that would've so insane that it would've ruined the league. I often look at a player like Karl Malone and feel bad for him because he gave his blood and guts to Utah for 18 seasons and came up ringless. He could've easily joined the Bulls in the mid 90's and won 3 or 4 Championships but he didn't. Yeah he went to LA when he was 40 but he was old and out of his prime. 

 

Oh man, the thought of Jordan jumping to the Pistons the year after the Bad Boys beat his behind blue in the playoffs...

 

Isiah Thomas, Bill Lambeer, Dennis Rodman, etc. + Jordan  =  :explode:

 

Never would have happened, though.  The Jordan/Thomas bad-blood kept Thomas off the Dream Team for cripes' sake...  :(

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11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I often look at a player like Karl Malone and feel bad for him because he gave his blood and guts to Utah for 18 seasons and came up ringless. He could've easily joined the Bulls in the mid 90's and won 3 or 4 Championships but he didn't.

 

Reggie Miller, too.  I feel even worse for Reggie because of how his career ended.  The Malice at the Palace was such an ugly way to end such a beautiful career... 

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Reggie Miller, too.  I feel even worse for Reggie because of how his career ended.  The Malice at the Palace was such an ugly way to end such a beautiful career... 

Yeah the Celtics actually wanted Reggie to come out of retirement in 2008 to come off the bench and back up Ray Allen. Reggie said no thanks. Had Reggie done that he would've had a coattail ring anyway LOL.

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4 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah the Celtics actually wanted Reggie to come out of retirement in 2008 to come off the bench and back up Ray Allen. Reggie said no thanks. Had Reggie done that he would've had a coattail ring anyway LOL.

 

I wish Reggie had gotten a ring.  Even if it wasn't with the Pacers.  Although certain rings mean more than others, and a ring with Boston just wouldn't mean as much as a ring with Indy.

 

I bet if you ask LeBron, he will tell you his last ring is the most special, even though most players always say that the first ring is the most special.

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1 minute ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

I wish Reggie had gotten a ring.  Even if it wasn't with the Pacers.  Although certain rings mean more than others, and a ring with Boston just wouldn't mean as much as a ring with Indy.

 

I bet if you ask LeBron, he will tell you his last ring is the most special, even though most players always say that the first ring is the most special.

The last Championship LeBron won was by far his best IMO. Not only did he win it in Ohio, he beat a team that won 73 games without HCA. He won without Wade as well.

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LeBron is no doubt one of the best ever, never said he wasn't. I just have him in the 6-10 range with players like Bird, Russell, Duncan, Big O, and Shaq. I still stand by my Top 5 with Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Kobe unless LeBron can find a way to win these Finals. JMO's and it isn't hate, it is just looking at everything like Stats, Championships, MVP's, Leadership, Clutchness, etc. of each player. I really don't have a true eye test regarding Wilt, Russell, or Big O - I was too young to see them live but have seen video of those 3 and know their Stats and Accomplishments.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

LeBron is no doubt one of the best ever, never said he wasn't. I just have him in the 6-10 range with players like Bird, Russell, Duncan, Big O, and Shaq. I still stand by my Top 5 with Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Kobe unless LeBron can find a way to win these Finals. JMO's and it isn't hate, it is just looking at everything like Stats, Championships, MVP's, Leadership, Clutchness, etc. of each player. I really don't have a true eye test regarding Wilt, Russell, or Big O - I was too young to see them live but have seen video of those 3 and know their Stats and Accomplishments.

To follow that up, to show how great I think LeBron is, I don't even think Curry or Durant are Top 30 players of all-time, maybe both are Top 40? A Ring would really help Durant's cause.

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Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

LeBron is no doubt one of the best ever, never said he wasn't. I just have him in the 6-10 range with players like Bird, Russell, Duncan, Big O, and Shaq. I still stand by my Top 5 with Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, and Kobe unless LeBron can find a way to win these Finals. JMO's and it isn't hate, it is just looking at everything like Stats, Championships, MVP's, Leadership, Clutchness, etc. of each player. I really don't have a true eye test regarding Wilt, Russell, or Big O - I was too young to see them live but have seen video of those 3 and know their Stats and accomplishments.

 

You're not wrong.  Everyone will have their own opinion.  Most of those players will be in everyones' top-10, regardless of how they're ranked, although a lot of people don't seem to want to put Bird that high for some reason.

 

I was also too young to actually see greats like Chamberlain, Russell, and Robertson.  I don't think I'm wrong to assume that competition in sports has improved over the years, so some of those old-school guys could use their God-given talent to completely dominate those around them in their era (when a lot of the competition was still white guys).

 

Personally, I don't think Wilt, Bill, or Oscar would have that kind of success nowadays.  Although Shaq did.  But would Shaq be that successful on the Warriors, with the way they play?  I dunno, this is all speculation on my part.

 

:dunno:

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1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I disagree but I respect your opinion. LeBron knew by joining Wade and Bosh with Pat Riley running the show that there was no way he wasn't going to win Championships. Durant joining the Warriors in no way guarantee's a Championship because they still have to play and beat LeBron's Cavs. Many people picked the Cavs to win this by the way. When I say many here are some huge names = Both Mike's on Mike and Mike, Marcellus Wiley on Sports Nation, and Jacoby on Jalen/Jacoby show. Those are 4 huge ESPN Names. Also a lot of fans in general picked the Cavs on ESPN chat boards. So it's not like everyone thought the Warriors were unbeatable. I even had it, still have it going 7. Shannon Sharpe also picked the Cavs on undisputed, there are at least 5 more guys I can name that picked the Cavs.

All 4 of those ESPN names you mentioned are not very intelligent. Marcellus Wiley and Shannon Sharpe just ride LeBron to no end. And the two Mikes just get on my nerves

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8 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

All 4 of those ESPN names you mentioned are not very intelligent. Marcellus Wiley and Shannon Sharpe just ride LeBron to no end. And the two Mikes just get on my nerves

Yeah but they are big names that get paid to analyze. If I don't name names that makes me look full of it, so when I Post now I am naming names. Mike and Mike have been on the air for 17 years and their show is highly respected.

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50 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

You're not wrong.  Everyone will have their own opinion.  Most of those players will be in everyones' top-10, regardless of how they're ranked, although a lot of people don't seem to want to put Bird that high for some reason.

 

I was also too young to actually see greats like Chamberlain, Russell, and Robertson.  I don't think I'm wrong to assume that competition in sports has improved over the years, so some of those old-school guys could use their God-given talent to completely dominate those around them in their era (when a lot of the competition was still white guys).

 

Personally, I don't think Wilt, Bill, or Oscar would have that kind of success nowadays.  Although Shaq did.  But would Shaq be that successful on the Warriors, with the way they play?  I dunno, this is all speculation on my part.

 

:dunno:

It's really impossible to compare ERA's in reality. You almost have to break it down into pre 80's/80's to present. I would say pre 80's going by Stats/Championships/Leadership/Clutchness, Top 5 would be:

1. Wilt Chamberlain

2. Bill Russell

3. Oscar Robertson

4. Jerry West

5. Elgin Baylor

-Keep in mind I had no eye live eye test with these guys but by going by my criteria above this seems like a legit list. Russell had the most Championships but Wilt was the most dominant player and had the best Stats by a mile. Big O is an easy 3rd, West an easy 4.

 

Top 5 80's to now:

1. Michael Jordan

2. Magic Johnson

3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - belongs post 80's because he won 5 Championships in the 80's and a huge Finals MVP in 1985

4. Kobe Bryant

5 is tough because you could put Bird, Duncan, Shaq, or LeBron here. A lot of people have love for Hakeem and Karl Malone as well. Unfortunately for Karl he never won a Ring.

 

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10 hours ago, OffensivelyPC said:

 

I hope they're all 20 point blowouts.  The NBA gets what it deserves for letting the greatest regular season team of all time sign the 2nd best player in the NBA.  Why they didn't block that I'll never know.

 

This Finals series is unwatchable.

absolutely.....I could not have said that any better....and they probably could have blocked it...

 

...I know you know the NBA blocked the trade of Chris Paul to the Lakers 6 or 7 years ago..

....the argument was it was too lopsided a deal and the Lakers were taking advantage of New Orleans at a time of an ownership change.

 

...a lot of the situation the Lakers (and Chris Paul) are in now stems from the blocking of that trade.

 

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Wasn't the first assembled "super" team the 2005 Lakers? And then the 2007 Celtics. Then 2010 Heat. Then 2012 Lakers. "Joining up" has been happening for a little while. The Warriors were home grown and added Durant. Not really a forming of a "super" team. I don't agree with the whole Chris Paul not allowed to go to the Lakers. but how many times has that EVER happened?!

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8 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Wasn't the first assembled "super" team the 2005 Lakers? And then the 2007 Celtics. Then 2010 Heat. Then 2012 Lakers. "Joining up" has been happening for a little while. The Warriors were home grown and added Durant. Not really a forming of a "super" team. I don't agree with the whole Chris Paul not allowed to go to the Lakers. but how many times has that EVER happened?!

But it did happen..and it changed the face of the conference for years..  The 2012 Lakers?

78-year old Steve Nash and Dwight Howard.....that's not super

 

The commissioner can act in the best interest of the league and there's no argeument

 

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56 minutes ago, oldunclemark said:

absolutely.....I could not have said that any better....and they probably could have blocked it...

 

...I know you know the NBA blocked the trade of Chris Paul to the Lakers 6 or 7 years ago..

....the argument was it was too lopsided a deal and the Lakers were taking advantage of New Orleans at a time of an ownership change.

 

...a lot of the situation the Lakers (and Chris Paul) are in now stems from the blocking of that trade.

 

Well if they should've blocked the Durant signing, then the NBA should've blocked the Cavs going over 34,000,000 mill over the Cap. They wouldn't have Love, T. Thompson, or Korver if teams weren't allowed to go over the Cap. What is the point of having a Salary Cap when you can still go WAY OVER? Makes 0 sense and something LeBron worshipers never bring up because they know it's a pile of bull! No team should be allowed to go over the Cap period, every team can do it though. Yeah the Owner has to pay a huge tax for doing it but who cares when you are a billionaire! The Warriors could actually still have Durant and be under the Cap. They are only 7 Mill over. If they just got rid 2 or 3 of their bench players and replaced them with scrubs, they still would be legit and under the Cap with Curry, Thompson, Green, Pachulia, McGee, and Durant. What the Warriors did by getting Durant was very legit, Durant was a Free Agent - how is the league going to block a player from choosing the team he wants to play for? It wasn't a trade.

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  Again. The commissioner has the power to do whatever he wants to do in the best interests of the league.

 

How did the league block a trade from NOLA to the Lakers. The franchises agreed to it.

They just did. Because they could.

 

..and easy on the cap thing.

Golden State is going far over the cap in the next 2 years when they have to resign  people

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53 minutes ago, Chrisaaron1023 said:

Wasn't the first assembled "super" team the 2005 Lakers? And then the 2007 Celtics. Then 2010 Heat. Then 2012 Lakers. "Joining up" has been happening for a little while. The Warriors were home grown and added Durant. Not really a forming of a "super" team. I don't agree with the whole Chris Paul not allowed to go to the Lakers. but how many times has that EVER happened?!

What the Lakers did in 2004 doesn't even compare to what the Heat did in 2010. Karl Malone was 40 years old, still Good but nowhere near his 90's level. Gary Payton was old as well and really washed up. Payton actually hurt the team, Fisher was a better player than he was in 2004.

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Just now, oldunclemark said:

  Again. The commissioner has the power to do whatever he wants to do in the best interests of the league.

 

How did the league block a trade from NOLA to the Lakers. The franchises agreed to it.

They just did. Because they could.

Listen please (read close because some don't seem too when I Post), Durant going to the Warriors wasn't a trade. He was a Free Agent and no the commish  cant block a person from joining a team through Free Agency per the CBA. Players can play where ever they want when their contract is up.

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6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I haven't seen it mentioned but RIP to Stephen A Smith's Mother. He was really close to her much like I am with mine. Couldn't imagine not having mom around anymore.

 

Man, why'd you have to go and humanize a talking head like Stephen A?  Now I actually feel feelings for that blowhard...  My heart goes out, but he is also the guy that got on ESPN and said that Peyton doesn't deserve a statue...  :flaming:

 

What's next?  I'm gonna have to sympathize for Skip Bayless for some reason?  Ugh.

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5 minutes ago, Lucky Colts Fan said:

 

Man, why'd you have to go and humanize a talking head like Stephen A?  Now I actually feel feelings for that blowhard...  My heart goes out, but he is also the guy that got on ESPN and said that Peyton doesn't deserve a statue...  :flaming:

 

What's next?  I'm gonna have to sympathize for Skip Bayless for some reason?  Ugh.

Had to be done, I don't particularly agree with him a lot and definitely disagree with him regarding the Peyton statue but I feel bad for him losing his mom.

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1 hour ago, oldunclemark said:

If Gordon Hayward comes to the Pacers, are they 'building a super team'??

If the Cavs lose to the Warriors, don't worry he will join the Cavs and LeBron lovers be like - YESSSSSSS, this is great for the league but he still doesn't have enough help. Sign CP3 too lmao. I know I cant shut up about LeBron but I absolutely hate this ERA of Basketball, it is the worse I have ever seen to be honest. It's not just LeBron, it's the way the league has been ran lately and how players just want to play with their buddies instead of wanting to beat them. I still watch it, why I have no idea - maybe because I am half nuts lmao. I don't know how anyone can enjoy 2 teams that just stack their teams to make it unfair for everyone else. Hell picking these 2 teams to make the Finals back in October was the easiest prediction I have ever had. Before anyone says, well the 80's was like that with Celtics/Lakers. It actually wasn't. The Sixers were a powerhouse so were the Pistons, and the Rockets beat the Lakers in 1986 with Hakeem and Sampson. There were other teams that at least had a chance to beat the Celtics and Lakers.

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11 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Yeah but they are big names that get paid to analyze. If I don't name names that makes me look full of it, so when I Post now I am naming names. Mike and Mike have been on the air for 17 years and their show is highly respected.

It's why ESPN has gone downhill. They've got *s that don't know what they're talking about. Cavs aren't winning this series and were never gonna win this series. It's over. Sweep City straight ahead

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8 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

If the Cavs lose to the Warriors, don't worry he will join the Cavs and LeBron lovers be like - YESSSSSSS, this is great for the league but he still doesn't have enough help. Sign CP3 too lmao. I know I cant shut up about LeBron but I absolutely hate this ERA of Basketball, it is the worse I have ever seen to be honest. It's not just LeBron, it's the way the league has been ran lately and how players just want to play with their buddies instead of wanting to beat them. I still watch it, why I have no idea - maybe because I am half nuts lmao. I don't know how anyone can enjoy 2 teams that just stack their teams to make it unfair for everyone else. Hell picking these 2 teams to make the Finals back in October was the easiest prediction I have ever had. Before anyone says, well the 80's was like that with Celtics/Lakers. It actually wasn't. The Sixers were a powerhouse so were the Pistons, and the Rockets beat the Lakers in 1986 with Hakeem and Sampson. There were other teams that at least had a chance to beat the Celtics and Lakers.

Superstars are not very loyal anymore. We are probably lucky we had Reggie when we did, in todays NBA he may have left.

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30 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Superstars are not very loyal anymore. We are probably lucky we had Reggie when we did, in todays NBA he may have left.

I'm not gonna lie. Playing a game is more fun when one is with his friends. That's just reality

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3 minutes ago, Luck is Good said:

I'm not gonna lie. Playing a game is more fun when one is with his friends. That's just reality

Well of course, but its still lame when super stars join up. Super teams are hurting the NBA, IMO. Just look at this year, the NBA playoffs have been one of the worst I've seen.

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15 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

Well of course, but its still lame when super stars join up. Super teams are hurting the NBA, IMO. Just look at this year, the NBA playoffs have been one of the worst I've seen.

If said superstars are friends, teaming up will only become more common. LeBron and Durant are prime examples as to why that would continue to happen

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Just now, Luck is Good said:

If said superstars are friends, teaming up will only become more common. LeBron and Durant are prime examples as to why that would continue to happen

I agree. The trend will probably continue, and thats not good for the NBA. I wonder how long until owners get mad about it and ask the NBA to do something about it.

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26 minutes ago, RockThatBlue said:

I agree. The trend will probably continue, and thats not good for the NBA. I wonder how long until owners get mad about it and ask the NBA to do something about it.

Most of the owners are not that serious about winning championships. There was a record number of fans in the stands this year and the NBA made a record number of dollars this season too.

Till there is a hard cap put in place it will be only the teams who are willing to pay the NBA to buy their championships.

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This is the first time I've commented on this thread, but the NBA is dying a quick death. Even in the Jordan era bulls, there was more competition than this. There's only 3 teams that are actually good now (and the Spurs had no chance against the Warriors because of Kwhai Leonard's injury). It's basically the story of can Lebron win another NBA Finals with a superteam, or can Kevin Durant win his first NBA Championship by joining the Warriors. Everyone is scared to lead a team to victory. There are no real men anymore in basketball. You never saw Jordan, Magic, and Bird make a Superteam to dominate the 80s and early 90s. Not only are the players worse than they've ever been, but the overall product is worse than it's ever been. I did a fantasy basketball league for $100 this year, and I couldn't watch more than 1 live game because it was so horrible. So I did the whole league just watching the box score. I know the NBA can't stop superteams from being built, but I'm sure something can be done to make it much harder to pull off in the future and create some parity.

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7 minutes ago, Jared Cisneros said:

This is the first time I've commented on this thread, but the NBA is dying a quick death. Even in the Jordan era bulls, there was more competition than this. There's only 3 teams that are actually good now (and the Spurs had no chance against the Warriors because of Kwhai Leonard's injury). It's basically the story of can Lebron win another NBA Finals with a superteam, or can Kevin Durant win his first NBA Championship by joining the Warriors. Everyone is scared to lead a team to victory. There are no real men anymore in basketball. You never saw Jordan, Magic, and Bird make a Superteam to dominate the 80s and early 90s. Not only are the players worse than they've ever been, but the overall product is worse than it's ever been. I did a fantasy basketball league for $100 this year, and I couldn't watch more than 1 live game because it was so horrible. So I did the whole league just watching the box score. I know the NBA can't stop superteams from being built, but I'm sure something can be done to make it much harder to pull off in the future and create some parity.

The NBA has just broke records for fans in the stands and made more money this season than in history and you say they are dying a quick death?

I don't think so.

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4 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The NBA has just broke records for fans in the stands and made more money this season than in history and you say they are dying a quick death?

I don't think so.

Sports usually make more money each year because of rising ticket prices. That means nothing. The product is worse than it's ever been, and people are complaining all over the place on how bad the game is, and how bad the playoffs have been. This is the most bandwagon sport today because any fan with intelligence knows the only two teams that can win a championship are the Warriors and Cavs. 

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    • 3-14 mostly cause AR is still a question mark. I do like what I did see but until he proves he can make it a season, no one knows. So I’m setting bar low
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